well, the Witch one seems to be popular so......
what do you want to see in the Cavalier? What abilities? What do you think?
An animal companion-like mount.
Enough variability in the class to cover Mongol-like or Plains Indians-like mounted archers, classic Knights on Horseback, Wild West-like wranglers, etc. etc.
New "tricks" they can do with mounted combat.
Some non-mounted class features so they're not totally marginalized in a dungeon, jungle, city, palace, temple, bar, ship, forest, swamp, fellfrost, undersea adventure, etc.
A) Built in non-standard mount rules (which could be adapted for the Paladin) so they can work in non-plains areas like mountains, swamps, ocean (riding dolphins etc).
B) Class abilities with their mounts that keep them valid in alternate locations. For example, feats that let them maneuver their mount through tight spaces, or that let them store their mount in an extra dimensional space when they are in a dungeon for example.
C) Leadership abilities that affect all allies in a certain area (ALA Aura of the Marshall).
D) Bonuses to their ability to train OTHER PEOPLE's mounts, or to train non-standard mounts at higher levels.
I would envision something like the Riders of Rohan in the Lord of the Rings. Make them good in melee but truly dangerous when they are on horseback. And if a Calvary of them are charging your flank - not gonna be a good day for you. (IE: I would give their attacks and defense bonuses for there being multiple Cavaliers in a group adjacent to one another, or within 10' of eachother.)
Guys, just don't forget that not all adventure takes place on horseback and quite unlike the Paladin, the cavalier can hardly be expected to summon his mount when he needs it, so he could be without a horse more often than not.
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Here are a few of my suggestions
Heavy Armor bonuses for mobility, armor check penalty reductions and AC bonuses.
Sword bonuses: Noble warriors tend to be practiced in the art of swordplay so they should be very good with them.
Save bonuses vs fear and enchantments: Status is EVERYTHING to most cavaliers and being humiliated because you falied a fear save and were forced to flee the battle and then have to live throught the humiliating bard ballad recounting your disgrace would be more than most cavaliers could bear.
Bonus money: Cavaliers tend to be land owners or at in the employ of some liege lord. Give them a small amount of gold, maybe 5 gold per point of charisma per level to reflect their upper crust status.
Horsemanship bonuses: Cavaliers are the premiere horsemen and should receive bonuses to mounted combat, mounted speed and also lance attacks and damages.
Damage reduction due to armor worn like the armor feat tree from Iron Heroes.
From the recent posted description it seems the Cavalier is a bit like the Noble with its reference to high societu
I think that current recquirements are all way too paladin-like. Why don't we try something more unique?
Leadership - Transfer of actions, like the Marshal in 3.5
Coordination - Transfer of attack bonus to allies - cavalier takes penalty to attack and an ally adjecent to the same foe takes bonus to attack.
Gallant - Improved aid another
Heroism - Extra bonuses to offense if fighting a foe alone, extra defense if outnumbered.
Some improved mounted attack would be neat, but they shouldn't be the only thing in cavalier's arsenal
with the idea that this class loves high society and and has more skills, I am wondering if intelligence will be an important stat. I think an "insightful strike" type of class feature would work well with this type of class
I'd much rather see a noble/ role-playing class over another Fighter Variant with more "mechanik-heavy" rules.
And I agree it needs to be more than mounted combat skills. Otherwise the player will quickly become frustrated with all of the non-mounted encounters. ("Whattayamean I can't take my horse into the bar...")
I think it would be interesting to do a version that is less the noble Hussar or gentleman-cavalryman, and instead allow for a more Cossack/Tartar/Janissary type; someone who is dangerous enough on foot, but a true terror from horseback, seemingly fearless and capable of astounding feats of ridership. The sort that would stand on their saddle at full gallop, sword in hand.
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I agree with the sentiment I see so far. Stellar on horseback, reliable on foot.
I would like the mount to follow the animal companion rules, so that a Cavalier that multiclassed Paladin or Ranger could continue the mount progression.
I also would like to channel the theme of the 1st Ed Cavalier and give him weapon focus and imp weap focus on different weapons as he levels up.
And I say Bard him up for enhancing his allies similar to the Marshall so that he can be a "Leader".
As far as money is concerned that is irrelevant to me as long as he starts with warrior cash so he can begin the game with some decent stuff, let the DM worry about landed nobility and all that if it comes down to it. I have yet to see a game where the nobility didn't wish they had the money of the adventurers after a certain point.
Stellar on horseback? Palladin-fighting-evil-dragon-like stellar? I can live with that. I also agree with increased social ability, but the class needs some unique abilities it can't simply obtain by multiclassing.
I'm aware that they were making a humorous reference to the cartoon, but I really liked the comments Jason made about spurring a friend forward with a snotty remark, or debuffing your enemy with a quick insult. To me, that sounds like a fun class to play (Or, I guess, you could, ya know, give encouragement).
I don't want the class to go too far into special mounted abilities, because then it will be stepping on the paladin's toes. I think having a special mount and a few bonus fighting style feats as per the ranger is probably enough. (personally, I'd like to see more mounted combat feats anyway).
I also want the class to steer as clear of the marshal as possible. It's not that the class was bad, it's just...it felt like it was stealing something from the bard. Battlefield-wide helping everybody abilities are sort of the bard's area. I want this class to be as narrowly focused as possible on helping one or two teammates. I guess I think of it more as a platoon leader than a general.
I'm aware that they were making a humorous reference to the cartoon, but I really liked the comments Jason made about spurring a friend forward with a snotty remark, or debuffing your enemy with a quick insult. To me, that sounds like a fun class to play (Or, I guess, you could, ya know, give encouragement).
I don't want the class to go too far into special mounted abilities, because then it will be stepping on the paladin's toes. I think having a special mount and a few bonus fighting style feats as per the ranger is probably enough. (personally, I'd like to see more mounted combat feats anyway).
I also want the class to steer as clear of the marshal as possible. It's not that the class was bad, it's just...it felt like it was stealing something from the bard. Battlefield-wide helping everybody abilities are sort of the bard's area. I want this class to be as narrowly focused as possible on helping one or two teammates. I guess I think of it more as a platoon leader than a general.
I'd also prefer to see the actual mechanic creating close cooperation with allies fighting the same foe (just like I mentioned with the transference of attack bonus to an ally).
As I'm thinking about this and debuff abilities... What about allowing something like this...
Exhaustive strike - You mobilize all your energy and focus on landing one blow after anther as fast as you can. You become fatigued and the enemy becomes exhausted until the end of your next turn. You can do this as a part of an attack action.
Or perhaps with the same flavour transfering your bonus in saves to a penalty to the same save for the nemy
Stellar on horseback? Palladin-fighting-evil-dragon-like stellar? I can live with that. I also agree with increased social ability, but the class needs some unique abilities it can't simply obtain by multiclassing.
I thought the intelligence based inisghtful strike of the old swashbuckler (obviously it will have to be callled something else) would work. The Cavalier being more skill based will perhaps be a more intelligent based warrior
I think that this could be better handled with feats and standard classes, but as a feature it would be neat IMO.
True, but I ilke the idea of an intelligence based skill based warrior and that feature would fit it seamlessly
If it can be built with feats, then it's fighter's domain. Either the class has some unique mechanic, or there is no point in creating it.
For what I´ve seen s far, this would look more like a charisma based warrior.
You may very well be right
But I still would like an intelligence based attack deal here
Well, remember the things Jason's said so far. This class is going to be somewhat bard-like, but (hopefully) cover different areas, so it's probably worth a new class.
My concern is that it shouldn't get special mounted combat abilities that aren't feats, since mounted combat is already something numerous other characters do. (damn I want a preview)
Call me a contrarian, but I'd rather see this as something built up with a new set of Fighter feats with an appropriate prerequisites than a whole new class. A cavalier is essentially just a warrior type from the nobility.
I wouldn't mind seeing a Marshal/Warlord-style class, although Monte Cook's idea of doing something similar with the Leadership domain of fighter feats in BoXM II was interesting.