Ok so we are going to start a little side game and I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields. I know I wont get the extra AC from 2 shields (which I dont agree with but thats another story) but I like the concept of a fighter rushing in with 2 light shields and then eventually switching to his bread and butter Sword+board. My question what would you guys suggest for builds? Ive worked it up a few times with only a few variations so I wouldnt mind some suggestions.
So the concept is that he starts combat with 2 light shields and then switchs to longsword + heavy shield when the fight gets tough.
I think his weapon focus things will be in longsword for the instances where he needs to Power attack and such.
Ok, suggestions?
I think you'll run into resistance to dual-shield-wielding when it comes to the Shield Master feat. There's something inherently wrong with fighting with two shields without any penalty whatsoever.
Ok so we are going to start a little side game and I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields. I know I wont get the extra AC from 2 shields (which I dont agree with but thats another story) but I like the concept of a fighter rushing in with 2 light shields and then eventually switching to his bread and butter Sword+board. My question what would you guys suggest for builds? Ive worked it up a few times with only a few variations so I wouldnt mind some suggestions.
So the concept is that he starts combat with 2 light shields and then switchs to longsword + heavy shield when the fight gets tough.
I think his weapon focus things will be in longsword for the instances where he needs to Power attack and such.
Ok, suggestions?
There is a fighting style for drow in the Green Ronin book Plots & Poisons that uses two shields.
You can also have a weapon enchanted to turn into a shield, that is in the Magic Item Compendium.
If you make the off-hand shield a buckler, you can use the feat Improved Buckler Defense to keep the shield bonus when you shield bash with the off-hand.
That's all I have at the moment.
Two words my friend. Paired Klar's.
Seriously. I have a barbarian Baddie rolling around in my game and the idea of a guy wearing bladed skulls on his arms seems pretty baddarse. and, as long as you do not mind the damage drop, it works out pretty OK
Batts
Didn't we have this thread just a couple months ago? I think it went a couple hundred posts, give or take. I think there was even a lively mid-thread discussion about alternative feats and houserules to make it extra uber.
Should be lots of info in there if anyone cares enough to go find it; but it certainly won't be me doing the searching.
Me, I'm armored enough. Besides, I think the whole idea of dual-wielding shields is preposterous. Next we'll be playing ninjas with superpowers and turtle shells.
Sorry, I don't mean to attack the OP. Your gaming experience is obviously quite different than mine, and I would never infringe upon your right to have it such. But I like my fantasy to contain a few shreds of realism or believability. Verisimilude is the common word for it. Fighting with two shields has nothing of that concept in it at all.
Sorry, I don't mean to attack the OP. Your gaming experience is obviously quite different than mine, and I would never infringe upon your right to have it such. But I like my fantasy to contain a few shreds of realism or believability. Verisimilude is the common word for it. Fighting with two shields has nothing of that concept in it at all.
Why is it so hard to imagine a guy picking up an extra shield for more defense when it is so easy to imagine one picking up an extra sword for more offense? I know the RAW does not work that way but the concept seems pretty simple to me. I do not understand how that is not realistic or believable. *shrug*
As for the suggestion of bucklers... unless I missed something bucklers cant bash, which would eliminate the whole idea of doing a dual weilder that attacks with his shield right?
As for the suggestion of bucklers... unless I missed something bucklers cant bash, which would eliminate the whole idea of doing a dual weilder that attacks with his shield right?
Crud, you're right. That's what I get for posting when I am on pain meds. LOL
I hope that my other suggestions are somewhat helpful at least *grin*
As for the suggestion of bucklers... unless I missed something bucklers cant bash, which would eliminate the whole idea of doing a dual weilder that attacks with his shield right?Crud, you're right. That's what I get for posting when I am on pain meds. LOL
I hope that my other suggestions are somewhat helpful at least *grin*
All good man. I am sure the other suggestions are good to but I forgot to specify that my group only uses core books... So atm just the PF main book and well the bestiary of course.
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Ok so we are going to start a little side game and I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields. I know I wont get the extra AC from 2 shields (which I dont agree with but thats another story) but I like the concept of a fighter rushing in with 2 light shields and then eventually switching to his bread and butter Sword+board. My question what would you guys suggest for builds? Ive worked it up a few times with only a few variations so I wouldnt mind some suggestions.
So the concept is that he starts combat with 2 light shields and then switchs to longsword + heavy shield when the fight gets tough.
I think his weapon focus things will be in longsword for the instances where he needs to Power attack and such.
Ok, suggestions?
Howsabout take leadership team him with a blind monk (remember to convince the DM to give the monk blindsense) for ultimate clichality :D? Yeah that's right I've made up a new word, deal with it.
I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields.
So...much...awesome...
Ok so we are going to start a little side game and I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields. I know I wont get the extra AC from 2 shields (which I dont agree with but thats another story) but I like the concept of a fighter rushing in with 2 light shields and then eventually switching to his bread and butter Sword+board. My question what would you guys suggest for builds? Ive worked it up a few times with only a few variations so I wouldnt mind some suggestions.
So the concept is that he starts combat with 2 light shields and then switchs to longsword + heavy shield when the fight gets tough.
I think his weapon focus things will be in longsword for the instances where he needs to Power attack and such.
Ok, suggestions?
Your only problem with this is going to be that by RAW shieldbashes can only be an offhand weapon.
Your only problem with this is going to be that by RAW shieldbashes can only be an offhand weapon.Ok so we are going to start a little side game and I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields. I know I wont get the extra AC from 2 shields (which I dont agree with but thats another story) but I like the concept of a fighter rushing in with 2 light shields and then eventually switching to his bread and butter Sword+board. My question what would you guys suggest for builds? Ive worked it up a few times with only a few variations so I wouldnt mind some suggestions.
So the concept is that he starts combat with 2 light shields and then switchs to longsword + heavy shield when the fight gets tough.
I think his weapon focus things will be in longsword for the instances where he needs to Power attack and such.
Ok, suggestions?
no no.. I understand that I plan to only bash with the off hand. The shield in the main hand would just attack using the damage listed for using it as a weapon... so long as that is legal.
The main build is longsword + heavy shield. The two light shields is just for fluff because I like the idea of a guy fighting with 2 shields. If I could make a defense based character off of this that is what I would do. But as the rules made shields into more weapons than well... um... shields, im going this way with it.
I just love the image in my head of a guy fighting with 2 shields. Think Achilies(sp) from Troy where he is spinning and attacking or even Leonidas from 300 where he is fighting the giant. The way they use their shields is so awesome.
Ive come up with a tenative idea for what feats to take that I will post.
I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields.So...much...awesome...
Thanks! so you like the idea?
This is what I have been working on...
1. Weapon Focus: Longsword
b. Improved Shield Bash
b. Two Weapon Fighting
2. Power Attack
3. Improved Bull Rush
4. Improved two weapon fighting
5. Weapon Specialization: Longsword
6. Shield Slam
7. Greater Bull Rush
8. Greater Weapon Focus: Longsword
9. Double Slice
10. Improved Critical: Longsword
11. Shield Master
12. Two Weapon Rend
13. Greater Weapon Specialization: Longsword
14. Greater two weapon fighting
15. Combat Reflexes
16. Critical Focus
17. Bleeding Critical
18. Staggering Critical
19. Stunning Critical
20. Critical Mastery
The idea is that he will start off fighting with 2 light shields then switch to heavy shield + longsword for tougher fights. Hopefully he will be bashing and getting attacks of opportunity when his attack causes the bashed target to fall prone.. also giving his allies AO's.
Questions are:
Is this the order you guys would suggest?
Are these the feats you would take?
I know it is not a truly optimized build but that is not exactly what I am going for. Yes I want him to be a total BA but I know the RAW does not work for what I want so im trying to keep it in as fluff.
Just as an aside, but what exactly is the Golarion 'Klah'? Is it a weapon with a defensive bonus? Or is it a shield with an offensive bonus?
Knowing which way that goes might make for an interesting shift.
Can a fighter take "Shield Bonus" as a feat? Is there such a beast?
Just wonderings and musings, sorry to intrude.
Cheers!
Your only problem with this is going to be that by RAW shieldbashes can only be an offhand weapon.Ok so we are going to start a little side game and I am thinking of making a fighter who dual wields shields. I know I wont get the extra AC from 2 shields (which I dont agree with but thats another story) but I like the concept of a fighter rushing in with 2 light shields and then eventually switching to his bread and butter Sword+board. My question what would you guys suggest for builds? Ive worked it up a few times with only a few variations so I wouldnt mind some suggestions.
So the concept is that he starts combat with 2 light shields and then switchs to longsword + heavy shield when the fight gets tough.
I think his weapon focus things will be in longsword for the instances where he needs to Power attack and such.
Ok, suggestions?
no no.. I understand that I plan to only bash with the off hand. The shield in the main hand would just attack using the damage listed for using it as a weapon... so long as that is legal.
The main build is longsword + heavy shield. The two light shields is just for fluff because I like the idea of a guy fighting with 2 shields. If I could make a defense based character off of this that is what I would do. But as the rules made shields into more weapons than well... um... shields, im going this way with it.
I just love the image in my head of a guy fighting with 2 shields. Think Achilies(sp) from Troy where he is spinning and attacking or even Leonidas from 300 where he is fighting the giant. The way they use their shields is so awesome.
Ive come up with a tenative idea for what feats to take that I will post.
You need to read the equipment section's write-up on using a shield as a weapon. It can only by RAW be used as an offhand weapon. The only way you could pull this off would be IUS and kicking them then bashing with the shield as a secondary. I think you should be able to use a shield as primary, though not to get 2 shields, but that's the RAW.
So wait.. you are saying by RAW you can not even put a shield in your main hand? Even if you do not intend to bash with it or gain a shield bonus?
A light shield does what.. a D4 damage? If this is true then it is something that will have to be overrulled... Im sorry that makes no sense. If you want to put 2 shields in your hands there should be no reason you can not do so.
I understand that someone decided that you should not be able to get 2 shield bonuses (dont agree with it) so by RAW I am not trying to do that. I am not even trying to get more bashes.. Sometimes RAW just gets to clunky and boring.
So wait.. you are saying by RAW you can not even put a shield in your main hand? Even if you do not intend to bash with it or gain a shield bonus?
A light shield does what.. a D4 damage? If this is true then it is something that will have to be overrulled... Im sorry that makes no sense. If you want to put 2 shields in your hands there should be no reason you can not do so.
I understand that someone decided that you should not be able to get 2 shield bonuses (dont agree with it) so by RAW I am not trying to do that. I am not even trying to get more bashes.. Sometimes RAW just gets to clunky and boring.
If you read the description it specifically states you can only use a shield as an offhand weapon. If it didn't state anything you would assume it would be like any other weapon, primary or offhand. Specific mention overwrites general rules. I would love a heavy shield primary shortsword offhand, but the RAW it doesn't work.
If you read the description it specifically states you can only use a shield as an offhand weapon. If it didn't state anything you would assume it would be like any other weapon, primary or offhand. Specific mention overwrites general rules. I would love a heavy shield primary shortsword offhand, but the RAW it doesn't work.So wait.. you are saying by RAW you can not even put a shield in your main hand? Even if you do not intend to bash with it or gain a shield bonus?
A light shield does what.. a D4 damage? If this is true then it is something that will have to be overrulled... Im sorry that makes no sense. If you want to put 2 shields in your hands there should be no reason you can not do so.
I understand that someone decided that you should not be able to get 2 shield bonuses (dont agree with it) so by RAW I am not trying to do that. I am not even trying to get more bashes.. Sometimes RAW just gets to clunky and boring.
I believe the RAI (rules as intended) were to keep you from gaining the ac bonus from a shield in your primary hand. IE i dont think they were put there to keep you from attacking with a large shield in your main hand, but to keep you from having a large shield in your primary hand and a light weapon in your off-hand and getting the ac bonus of the heavy shield.
I do believe that so long as you only get the AC bonus from your offhand and not your primary hand (regardless of feat choice) there isnt a problem here.
I believe the RAI (rules as intended) were to keep you from gaining the ac bonus from a shield in your primary hand. IE i dont think they were put there to keep you from attacking with a large shield in your main hand, but to keep you from having a large shield in your primary hand and a light weapon in your off-hand and getting the ac bonus of the heavy shield.I do believe that so long as you only get the AC bonus from your offhand and not your primary hand (regardless of feat choice) there isnt a problem here.
I would houserule you as able to use a large shield primary, light offhand, but not 2 shields without a lengthy explanation of how you're going to do that and make it work. Maybe you can visualize this but I have a hard time seeing how you would fight well with 2 shields. Being worn on the outside of your arms is a big problem here. You could be very defensive but How are you going to hit the same person multiple times. You would have to be spinning around always having your back to them.. I just don't see it working.
If you can explain it better I would be willing to listen to how you think it would work.
"Spartan Shield Shrug", grasshopper. A not uncommon greek tactic or shield tactic in general. Involves rleveraging your shield up into your opponents head while they are in front of you. It comes in on their usual sword-arm side, so not much defensive options. Capable of crushing your skull or breaking your neck in one move( far more than just the 1d3 for shield bash).Most shields have always been defensive weapons, more than part of your armor, that were regularly switched to an offensive role in combat...with the exception of very large ones like tower shields. In fencing bucklers were used to punch as much as block. Some even had sharpened edges (not very sporting but effective).
If you fought a norseman you were as likely to get that shield in your face as you were his axe in your shoulder. That agile italian...
I'm fully aware that shields are capable weapons. I'm not seeing how you could effectively use TWO shields at the same time against the same opponent.
I'm fully aware that shields are capable weapons. I'm not seeing how you could effectively use TWO shields at the same time against the same opponent.
Yeah you're right man. You can't fight effectively with two shields, but then again I have never seen how anyone could fight effectively with a "spiked chain" and yet it was one of the most powerful weapons in 3.5
Sometimes you just have to suspend disbelief :)
I'm fully aware that shields are capable weapons. I'm not seeing how you could effectively use TWO shields at the same time against the same opponent.
"Spartan Shield Shrug", grasshopper. A not uncommon greek tactic or shield tactic in general. Involves rleveraging your shield up into your opponents head while they are in front of you. It comes in on their usual sword-arm side, so not much defensive options. Capable of crushing your skull or breaking your neck in one move( far more than just the 1d3 for shield bash).Most shields have always been defensive weapons, more than part of your armor, that were regularly switched to an offensive role in combat...with the exception of very large ones like tower shields. In fencing bucklers were used to punch as much as block. Some even had sharpened edges (not very sporting but effective).
If you fought a norseman you were as likely to get that shield in your face as you were his axe in your shoulder. That agile italian...
Same as any two weapons, but you better be very strong and have good endurance. Dont think it would be possible with anything past light shields though.
Not a solid example by any stretch, but have seen a couple of people in the SCA fight with two targes or two bucklers just for fun. Took them a bit to get the rythm though. Would almost say it would require a feat on its own to do it.
-Weylin
no, not the same as any two weapons. You can face your opponent and hit them with 2 kali sticks, machettes, axes, sword, etc. To hit someone with a shield, not a buckler(D&D style) you need to swing it while it is being worn on the outside of your arm like a football forearm shimmy. Light shields you could possibly punch with but their description is that it's strapped to the arm and you have a hand free to do other stuff, so same deal. Now to hit the same opponent I have to spin, TURNING MY BACK TO HIM, and hit him with the other one. I think I've solved the problem. Iterrative attacks on the same opponent using two different shields each provoke an attack of opportunity for turning your back to the opponent.
no, not the same as any two weapons. You can face your opponent and hit them with 2 kali sticks, machettes, axes, sword, etc. To hit someone with a shield, not a buckler(D&D style) you need to swing it while it is being worn on the outside of your arm like a football forearm shimmy. Light shields you could possibly punch with but their description is that it's strapped to the arm and you have a hand free to do other stuff, so same deal. Now to hit the same opponent I have to spin, TURNING MY BACK TO HIM, and hit him with the other one. I think I've solved the problem. Iterrative attacks on the same opponent using two different shields each provoke an attack of opportunity for turning your back to the opponent.
I think its not about real life 'effectiveness' this is after all a fantastic setting, in which characters can not only have inhuman strength intelligence and dexterity, but also turn into bears, hurl fireballs at eachother and bring the dead back to life. I am quite certain you can fight CINEMATICALLTY with 2 shields, and all the spinning and twisting fits just fine. It doesnt have to be practical or even possible, just imaginable. After all in combat we can be fighting people on all sides of us (all beit being flanked while we do it) we arent provoking attacks of opportunity doing it. A dragon most likely has to twist his body to get in his tail slap, that doesnt provoke an attack of opportunity. And dont even get me started on the whirlwind attack.
We are not rank and file soldiers in the middle ages, we are heroes of a fantasy story. We can do some pretty rediculous things without being penalized for it ;)
Given a targe falls under light shield and is on average 5 to 6 pounds and 24" across. I am not seeing as necessary to turn your back on your opponent to strike him with either shield. This is subtantially smaller and lighter than the usual greek round shield which would more properly be a heavy shield.
As for AOO, I could see it if it was ruled that using the two shields required either Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Primary Side Shield or a Two Shield Style and the character lacked that.
Would not be something I would just let a character decide he wanted to do. Would have to work with him on a backstory for where this style is, how it originated, what feats are required to use it properly, what prereqs those feats have, etc.
-Weylin
How do you hit your opponent with the second shield?
How do you hit your opponent with the second shield?Given a targe falls under light shield and is on average 5 to 6 pounds and 24" across. I am not seeing as necessary to turn your back on your opponent to strike him with either shield. This is subtantially smaller and lighter than the usual greek round shield which would more properly be a heavy shield.
As for AOO, I could see it if it was ruled that using the two shields required either Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Primary Side Shield or a Two Shield Style and the character lacked that.
Would not be something I would just let a character decide he wanted to do. Would have to work with him on a backstory for where this style is, how it originated, what feats are required to use it properly, what prereqs those feats have, etc.
-Weylin
momentum from the first. turning your back for a split second in what is a 6 second round is not something i would see provoking an attack of opportunity. If that were the case fighters would be get mauled for using half their feats that would logically require twisting movements or wind-ups or chambering a strike.
-Weylin
I used to train with a guy who turned his back on a regular basis. He turned is back 3 times in a row. I suplexed him 3 times in a row. He never turned his back on me again while sparring. Imagine this scenario with weapons.
I used to train with a guy who turned his back on a regular basis. He turned is back 3 times in a row. I suplexed him 3 times in a row. He never turned his back on me again while sparring. Imagine this scenario with weapons.How do you hit your opponent with the second shield?Given a targe falls under light shield and is on average 5 to 6 pounds and 24" across. I am not seeing as necessary to turn your back on your opponent to strike him with either shield. This is subtantially smaller and lighter than the usual greek round shield which would more properly be a heavy shield.
As for AOO, I could see it if it was ruled that using the two shields required either Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Primary Side Shield or a Two Shield Style and the character lacked that.
Would not be something I would just let a character decide he wanted to do. Would have to work with him on a backstory for where this style is, how it originated, what feats are required to use it properly, what prereqs those feats have, etc.
-Weylin
momentum from the first. turning your back for a split second in what is a 6 second round is not something i would see provoking an attack of opportunity. If that were the case fighters would be get mauled for using half their feats that would logically require twisting movements or wind-ups or chambering a strike.
-Weylin
Do i really need to point you at how many martial arts forms, both armed and without weapons involve spinning your body? There are many. Clearly whatever you were teaching is not conducive to this, but that does not mean it applies to every form of fighting.
Most shields weren't supported by the hand, but rather carried on a sling around the neck and effectively "aimed" with the hand and forearm. Most the of weight was on your back or shoulder. Two shields mean you have straps going around both sides of your neck, meaning you're just asking for something to catch and strangle yourself.
The thing about a shield bash is that you're putting your whole body weight into it, ramming the enemy with the shield. Then you have to shift your whole body weight to the other side and ram them again. That's an awful lot of weight shifting in close combat. Not to mention you have to lower your OTHER shield arm, so it's not protecting you either.
Paired bucklers used as punching weapons, maybe. Anything like a round or heater shield, I can't picture it working. Honestly, it seems like they'd get in each other's way.
Then he was too slow. People turn their back regularly in fights...spin kicks and spinning back fistscome to mind. Sometimes someone is fast enogh to try for them, often they are not. Same with chambered punches and kicks. Turning your back is not the same as an attack rotation
-Weylin
Picture what you're saying. Watch it and see if it makes any sense. Spinning backfists and spinning roundhouse kicks are rarely ever used by anyone who knows about combat, and the people who use acknowledge that they are slow techniques that you have to set up to use without getting killed. Now picture the same thing except you're using a shield which slows you down even more. I just don't see this working.
Do i really need to point you at how many martial arts forms, both armed and without weapons involve spinning your body? There are many. Clearly whatever you were teaching is not conducive to this, but that does not mean it applies to every form of fighting.
I want you to find me one military martial art instructor not the tae kwon do guy down the street quoted saying that it's ok to turn your back on your opponent if you don't have to. Spinning techniques are extremely powerful combat tools but they are slow, energy draining, and leave you wide open. This would be exadurated with a shield.
Picture what you're saying. Watch it and see if it makes any sense. Spinning backfists and spinning roundhouse kicks are rarely ever used by anyone who knows about combat, and the people who use acknowledge that they are slow techniques that you have to set up to use without getting killed. Now picture the same thing except you're using a shield which slows you down even more. I just don't see this working.Then he was too slow. People turn their back regularly in fights...spin kicks and spinning back fistscome to mind. Sometimes someone is fast enogh to try for them, often they are not. Same with chambered punches and kicks. Turning your back is not the same as an attack rotation
-Weylin
Well, Muay Thai boxers use spin-kicks but they are VERY fast, and also thrown after a roundhouse, using the momentum of the first. Usually the first kick makes the opponent step back, which eliminates their ability to capitalize (in most cases) on the spinning.
There are a lot of good points here and I respect the thought put into it. I see what each person is saying in regards to how the secondary shield would work.
I wont go into my list of reasons I know about combat but I can see 2 shields working in my head... these are reasons/examples.
First not every attack would be a shild bash... I agree that does not make sense. But an example of the bash is perfectly displayed in 300 when Leonidas goes crazy and ends the routine with a bash... this was not the running put everything hes got into it move that some people think a bash has to be, and that is exactly how I see a bash in my head.
Dont forget that you are not just hitting with the flat of the shield, the edges are perfectly viable weapons as well. Again.. not a bash but still an attack, one where turning your back is not necessary. I can take a shield and thrust with it like a punch, chop with it like an axe or even uppercut with it.
If that explaination does not make the scene make more sense to you then I dont know how to explain it.
Again I am not looking for extra bashs here or even extra AC (though that should work!). I enjoy the fact that even fantasy has physics involved in it. Once you accept that magic exists you still have boundaries and I do not feel like 2 shields is outside those boundaries anymore than 2 battle axes (which are the same weight).
One, arguing real life "stuff" makes any sort of difference when playing in a fantasy game where such things are routinely ignored/overlooked is a waste of time, really.
Two, DM Blake has the given you the best suggestion so far, Vult Wrathblades, go find the thread where this was hashed out originally, indepth. For what it is worth, as you are playing only core books, the core PFRPG book states specifically (RAW) that shield bash attacks are only an off hand attack (and off hand attacks have specific criteria). It is a quirk of the rules maybe, but it is there with all its ramifications. Wanting something other than that, you'd have to work with the DM to house rule something. It isn't always about realism or what could work, sometimes it is just plain checks and balances to keep something from being too powerful, read the thread in question if you want to see why.
There are a lot of good points here and I respect the thought put into it. I see what each person is saying in regards to how the secondary shield would work.
I wont go into my list of reasons I know about combat but I can see 2 shields working in my head... these are reasons/examples.
First not every attack would be a shild bash... I agree that does not make sense. But an example of the bash is perfectly displayed in 300 when Leonidas goes crazy and ends the routine with a bash... this was not the running put everything hes got into it move that some people think a bash has to be, and that is exactly how I see a bash in my head.
Dont forget that you are not just hitting with the flat of the shield, the edges are perfectly viable weapons as well. Again.. not a bash but still an attack, one where turning your back is not necessary. I can take a shield and thrust with it like a punch, chop with it like an axe or even uppercut with it.
If that explaination does not make the scene make more sense to you then I dont know how to explain it.
Again I am not looking for extra bashs here or even extra AC (though that should work!). I enjoy the fact that even fantasy has physics involved in it. Once you accept that magic exists you still have boundaries and I do not feel like 2 shields is outside those boundaries anymore than 2 battle axes (which are the same weight).
You're only explaining how you're attacking with one shield, that's not an issue. The question is how do you dual wield shields without making yourself completely open to attack. Also there's a difference between allowing magic in your game and completely throwing away all reality. If I tell the DM that a dragon can use his claws to attack so I want to tripple wield orc double-axes, one in each hand, one with my feet and take the monkey toes grip feat, and one between my knees.. we won't get into that I guess.
You have two arms. How would you effectively wield 2 shields against 1 opponent.
If you want this idea to work I would look into klar's they are bucklers with a blade. You would be able to face your opponent and use both of them.
Also there's a difference between allowing magic in your game and completely throwing away all reality.
Isnt that what I said?... thought it was.
I explained attacking with the main hand shield.. of course the off hand is the same or it is bashing.
If you dont understand using 2 shields then you must not understand the idea of bashing with a shield and attacking with another weapon either. It is the same thing. You can use a shield as a weapon to make attacks and that attack not be a bash. How would Klar's be any different than this?
Also there's a difference between allowing magic in your game and completely throwing away all reality.Isnt that what I said?... thought it was.
I explained attacking with the main hand shield.. of course the off hand is the same or it is bashing.
If you dont understand using 2 shields then you must not understand the idea of bashing with a shield and attacking with another weapon either. It is the same thing. You can use a shield as a weapon to make attacks and that attack not be a bash. How would Klar's be any different than this?
This would be so much easier with pictures. A Klar has a blade and extends from the buckler letting you strike with reach(not to be confused with a reach weapon), almost like a spiked gauntlet but further up the arm. Am I the only person who thinks that it's not unlikely that people tried using 2 shields in the past, but the style never got popular because they all died the first time they tried it?
This would be so much easier with pictures. A Klar has a blade and extends from the buckler letting you strike with reach(not to be confused with a reach weapon), almost like a spiked gauntlet but further up the arm. Am I the only person who thinks that it's not unlikely that people tried using 2 shields in the past, but the style never got popular because they all died the first time they tried it?
Also there's a difference between allowing magic in your game and completely throwing away all reality.Isnt that what I said?... thought it was.
I explained attacking with the main hand shield.. of course the off hand is the same or it is bashing.
If you dont understand using 2 shields then you must not understand the idea of bashing with a shield and attacking with another weapon either. It is the same thing. You can use a shield as a weapon to make attacks and that attack not be a bash. How would Klar's be any different than this?
A shield... at least every shield I have ever seen except a buckler extends out past the hand in a circle. The hand may not be in the center of the shield but it is close. We are obviously not seeing the same picture here. I think they would be helpful.
This would be so much easier with pictures. A Klar has a blade and extends from the buckler letting you strike with reach(not to be confused with a reach weapon), almost like a spiked gauntlet but further up the arm. Am I the only person who thinks that it's not unlikely that people tried using 2 shields in the past, but the style never got popular because they all died the first time they tried it?
Also there's a difference between allowing magic in your game and completely throwing away all reality.Isnt that what I said?... thought it was.
I explained attacking with the main hand shield.. of course the off hand is the same or it is bashing.
If you dont understand using 2 shields then you must not understand the idea of bashing with a shield and attacking with another weapon either. It is the same thing. You can use a shield as a weapon to make attacks and that attack not be a bash. How would Klar's be any different than this?
Why it doesn't work / never caught on: Because if you use it when fighting in a line, you're going to hit the people next to you or at least foul their swings - shields take up a lot more room than you think. Because they won't penetrate armor at all. Because effectively it's just a club except a lot heavier, shorter, and considerably more awkward. Because when you attack with one shield, to get power into it, you have to drop the other arm, which eliminates the point of having another shield instead of a weapon.
Tell you what, find your nearest SCAdian, have them double up with shields, and go to town. See if it looks even moderately effective.