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I am looking for help with something I have never done before which is to multiclass rogue with cleric - party needs a rogue for traps etc plus I like the idea of sneak attack to make up for some of the limited damage I can do as rogue & I think the party could use a backup healer
I am starting as a 5th level char - only rules from new pathfinder core rulebook only - maybe character traits also - I also get 10k to spend on equipment
I am looking at being a flanker to the meatshields in the party
I have reasonable stats & was thinking of allocating scores in priority as follows but any suggestions gratefully accepted
Str low
Dex high
Con mod
Int mod
Wis high
Cha mod
I am open to any race & other ideas
any help appreciated
Human is a solid choice as far as races go the extra skill points will help offset the 2+int that clerics get and the extra feat is nothing to sneer at either. Have you decided on a deity yet? If not the Luck domain at first level gives you 3+Wis times per day to grant someone a re roll on a d20. Are you looking at being an even split like 3/2 Cleric/Rogue or more like 1/4 Cleric/Rogue. Cause that kind of dancing can adjust decisions you make and what spells you take.
I'm playing in a 2nd Darkness campaign right now and we have no cleric so my back up character in case I die (go go wizard with 24 hp)is a Cleric of Calistria. Made him rogueish in concept but straight cleric I'm offsetting his lack of Rogue levels with spells like lvl 2 Find Traps: 1 min/lvl, +1/2 caster level as insight bonus to perception for the purpose of spotting traps, and the trap spotter rogue talent effectively. You can get away with a "Rogue" cleric with discriminate use of spells and deity choice. Calistria is a solid Trickery+Luck are the way I went but there are some great domain choices like Travel.
I am looking for help with something I have never done before which is to multiclass rogue with cleric - party needs a rogue for traps etc plus I like the idea of sneak attack to make up for some of the limited damage I can do as rogue & I think the party could use a backup healer
I am starting as a 5th level char - only rules from new pathfinder core rulebook only - maybe character traits also - I also get 10k to spend on equipment
I am looking at being a flanker to the meatshields in the party
I have reasonable stats & was thinking of allocating scores in priority as follows but any suggestions gratefully accepted
Str low
Dex high
Con mod
Int mod
Wis high
Cha modI am open to any race & other ideas
any help appreciated
This is assuming as you stated above you're wanting to flank.
If you're focusing on rogue that is probably ok since your spell progression will be slowed significantly. If you are going to do more cleric than rogue I would suggest not dumping STR. Clerics get medium armor so you only need like 16 dex (including belt of dexterity which you will be able to make as a spellcaster) unless you get mithral armor. STR is also your +hit and +damage and with spells like bull strength, divine power, and righteous might all having different typed bonuses a regular human cleric with a longspear can do a lot of damage with a 20 ft reach. Sneak attack is just icing on the cake :) If you go elf longsword/buckler (hand free for casting) can be a nice combo as well.
what kind of point buy are you playing with?
with 25 points you can have 14 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 12 INT, 14 WIS, 13 CHA before racial mods and be able to get a decent all around character. If you're playing a lower point buy that can affect your decisions too.
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we are using dice roll instead of point buy for this campaign - my lowest is 10 my highest is 17
I was thinking of 3 rogue / 2 cleric for the increase in sneak attack
I was thinking of focusing more on rogue than cleric but only just
for domains I was pretty sure of taking trickery for the mirror image & maybe fire for some offensive punch spells
for weapons I was thinking either longsword buckler like someone has suggested or maybe going for greataxe or maybe falchion (depending on god or race chosen)
I was also thinking of half elf for favoured class x2 or maybe halfling for the rogue skill bonuses
comments welcomed - ideas have been good so far
thanks all
Cee
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I would stick with the highest stat in Dex and next highest into Wis. With this build you will not likely be casting a lot of spells that require an enemy to make a save. Definitely the 10 in Str and then a toss up between Con and Cha for your 3rd highest score. Cha can help out the cleric abilities and give you a little more push on the social skills.
I would stick with Half-Elf, going down to a 8 STR would just hurts and the Half-Elf is built for multi-classing. 30 spd and no hit to carrying capacity is nice too.
Feats at level 5. Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative and then maybe Dodge or Selective Channeling.
With the +2 Race Bonus it up to you. 17 Dex is fine and taking it to 18 at level 4 would be the route I would take.
Now here is the tricky thing. Weapon finesse is affected by the check penalties on shields. So get a masterwork small shield or buckler early on that has no penalty then move on if you can (Any Magic Heavy shield will on be -1 penalty and that can be acceptable). If you ever end up with a darkwood or mithral large shield pay to have that sucker enchanted and never let go of it.
So starting off with a Short Sword, Buckler and a Chain Shirt you should have enough defense and offense to make a difference when you are out of spells without dying right off the bat.
We have a goblin Cleric/Rogue in our campaign right now. It was a slow start but he is fitting into both roles nicely. His God doesn't allow him to backstab from hiding so he can only do it when they are flanked or denied their Dex. Makes for a good time.
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Depending on what is allowed, there is a perfect feat from 3.5.
Holy Outlaw (simplified)
Prereqs: Sneak Attack +2d6, Turn/rebuke Undead (Channel Energy now)
Benefit: For Turning and Sneak Attack progression, your Rogue and Cleric levels stack.
It was in Dragon Mag, I want to say issue 360.
Also, if your thinking of filling both the rogue and cleric rolls, consider going ranged combat. For spells, focus one either tough attacks or rays so you can cast and sneak attack. With Weapon Finesse, you can keep a lower Str, because to be honest, there are few stats a straight cleric can afford to have low, and with rogue on it, you really have no dump stat, but rather what can you afford to not have most.
Str for carrying capacity (just don't carry a lot) and extra damage (which sneak attack will replace) and you can get by with an 8 - 10 Str
Dex for AC, Refl, Attacks, and many Skills
Con for HP and Con
Int for many skills
Wisdom for skills, spells, Will Saves and probably class abilities
Cha for healing and skills, and possibly other class abilities
Keep Dex and Wis as high as possible, Con and Int 12+, and Cha, up, but don't focus on it as much.
Another idea, is ditch rogue and go into either the Pathfinder Loremaster (kind of weak I think) or the 3.5 Divine Oracle (which would keep your casting up, and start giving you some nice skills and rogue-like trap abilities, but no Sneak Attack).
As for race, it really depends on how you want to focus your character, but don't forget Dwarves, which can compliment both clerics, but also rogues in odd ways.
we are using dice roll instead of point buy for this campaign - my lowest is 10 my highest is 17
I was thinking of 3 rogue / 2 cleric for the increase in sneak attack
I was thinking of focusing more on rogue than cleric but only just
for domains I was pretty sure of taking trickery for the mirror image & maybe fire for some offensive punch spellsfor weapons I was thinking either longsword buckler like someone has suggested or maybe going for greataxe or maybe falchion (depending on god or race chosen)
I was also thinking of half elf for favoured class x2 or maybe halfling for the rogue skill bonuses
comments welcomed - ideas have been good so far
thanks all
Cee
I would suggest halfling with what you're describing. Probably 12 wisdom you don't need much wisdom if you're only putting 1-2 levels in cleric. 16-18 Dex is easy as a halfling and a masterwork breastplate or chain shirt, later on you'll want to make it a mithral breastplate or chain shirt when you have a +4 or +6 dex item.
Don't dump strength if you want to melee. If you're going to do crossbow sniping you can, but rogues and clerics are feat starved, you have access to medium armor, and weapon finesse is a trap.. you'll hit but do no damage, and your reflex save is already going to rock with 16-18 dex rogue as a halfling. Longspear's are great and have reach. If you can pump your STR to 14 you're going to do 1d8+3 (less if small size) with a mundane one which is nice, then add in your sneak attack dice if you can flank.
I don't really know what's available and what's not, but my group is running with 3.5 freedom. Clerics, while they pretend not to be, are really MAD when it comes to being totally effective. Try to pick up feats that will reduce your attribute dependency, like Toughness. If you can pick from the Complete Warrior (I think) or the Book of Exalted Deeds, you can grab Zen Archery or Intuitive Strike and use your wisdom modifier for attack rolls with ranged (zen) or simple (intuitive) weapons.
This means you could dump dex to a 12 (+4 item for full AC) for melee combat and get some decent strength or leave it as a 16 for feat prereqs if you choose to go ranged.
This is, of course, if you're planning to really push Cleric instead of rogue. Otherwise, dump your wisdom down as low as you possibly need it, get your mandatory dex (12 or 16), and push strength to make up for the damage dice you're losing with limited sneak attack progression. Heck, even consider going the power attack route. Also remember that if you're focusing on Rogue, a high skill class, you don't really need any more than 10 intelligence.
If your allowed to use races out of the pathfinder bestiary, Tengu could prove to be a very interesting path to go. I myself have a level 5 cleric level 1 shadow dancer tengu for a friends campaign that I'm 95% sure I'll need the replacement character for.
I personally would go with a good Dex, then Cha, then Wis. Charisma over wisdom for for better diplomacy, buff, and more channeling to heal allies. If you channel negative energy, Channeling smite would be great too for a damage boost.
This is assuming your going more rogue than cleric, and that your spells would be more for healing and utility than combat.
Btw, how are you set for domains if I may ask? Trickery and Liberation would make wonderful domains if you don't worship any deity in particular.
I know you said Pathfinder only but I am going to throw this out there for you to peruse at your will, maybe you can sweet talk or persuade your DM into letting you take it, back in the 2E days when I was working at Dominos in college I once traded 2 free pizzas for an 18/00 strength ;)
The Divine Trickster
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5M5QGsJ5mpbLfAHduZG.html
This was created by game designer and Order of the Stick mastermind Rich Berlew, and was actually intended for a character of mine for a friends evil drow campaign in 3.5, my character build was Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Darkmask(from the FR book Lords of Darkness) 5/Divine Trickster 10 of Vhaerun, though unfortunately I never got to play him.
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the character got scrapped as the DM did not want to allow some rules from the corebook as this stifled my character concept (which is his choice) but I ended up being challenged by another player to play a druid as she wanted to see my take on druids - so I am now playing a rogue/druid focusing mainly on druid but thanks everyone for the feedback
I am looking for help with something I have never done before which is to multiclass rogue with cleric - party needs a rogue for traps etc plus I like the idea of sneak attack to make up for some of the limited damage I can do as rogue & I think the party could use a backup healer
any help appreciated
This works quite well - I've been tinkering with something similar myself. One level of Cleric should cover a little healing, and provides a wide variety of boosts for roguery.
I'd suggest going with a fairly flat stat spread. Tops is whatever you can afford in Dex, then a decent Str, 14 Cha, 13 Int, and 12 Wis. Don't dump Con if you want to flank with the fighters. This gives you no dump stat, but no need for anything outrageously high either.
Cleric 1 of Desna (Travel and Luck domains) gives you:
- 2/0/2 saves (for 3/4/3 at 5th, with four levels of rogue)
- Channel 1d6 healing to all 5 times/day (with Cha 14): with wands of CLW, you're now a low-level back-up healer
- 3 at-will orisons: Detect Magic (for traps), Guidance (for traps), Resistance (for traps - you're well set up here)
- 3 first-level spells (with Wis 12): True Strike (domain spell), Obscuring Mist (for concealment), Protection from Evil - three different spells, so you have more choice with Pearls of Power
- Starknife proficiency. Not too shoddy as a rogue weapon. With two-weapon fighting and one in each hand, you allow yourself both TWF and the chance to sneak at range (20' is good, and the x3 crit is nice) while focussing on one weapon for feat advancement
- +10 speed, courtesy of Travel domain (very nice for rogue)
- Ignore difficult terrain 4 times per day (with 12 Wis) - also situationally very useful
- Roll d20 twice 4 times per day - very good for trap or other skill checks
- Medium armour and shields
- A couple extra hit points, if you take this at 1st and play maximum hp on your first HD
...which, for a single level, is - to put it mildly - really rather nice.
Rogue 4 adds:
- +3 BAB
- Sneak +2d6
- Trapfinding, trap sense+1 and rogue skill bonusses
- Uncanny dodge
- Evasion
- Two talents: putting one of these on Weapon Training (Focus: Starknife) opens up Dazzling Display, which allows you Shatter Defenses later, though you might decide to rely on Improved Feint. Your movement also makes Fast Stealth a decent bet. The sneak attack talents are attractive, though.
...which sets you up pretty well at 5th. Later on, your Cleric perks still prove useful. +10 speed is never going to go out of fashion, and you may come to love Obscuring Mist. Rolling twice is top-notch for a skillmonkey.
Feat paths and one-offs:
- Extra Channel and Selective Channel: I wouldn't take them, but the latter is always going to be tempting.
- Combat Expertise and Improved Feint: with Cha 14, these provide you with plenty of sneaks once you're flanking. Skill Focus might be attractive later on.
- Toughness: if you want to flank, you'll probably want this
- Focus, Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses: an interesting long-term goal, but Improved Feint is cheaper. It doesn't have to be either/or, though - the more sneak set-ups the better
- Two Weapon Fighting etc: almost certainly better than shield
- Quick Draw, PBS, Rapid Shot: not bad with starknives, but if you take TWF you probably can't afford the whole shebang. Quick Draw might be worth it as a one-off.
Equipment:
- Mithril breastplate: you're proficient (important in Pathfinder), can cast your Cleric spells (even True Strike), and don't lose your base 40 speed. Maximum Dex bonus of 5 will do you for a while. -1 active skill check penalty is an annoyance, but +6 base armour bonus is worth it. Another 4000gp gets you +8 AC.
- Wands: Cure Light Wounds, Magic Weapon, Lesser Restoration, Resist Energy...
- Pearls of Power I: get a few of them. Now you can get Misted up all day.
- Eyes of the Eagle, Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind, Vest of Escape. Note that the Vest has improved in Pathfinder. The Eyes are important, of course - think of Perception as Stage 1 Initiative and the bargain status of the eyes is clear. Boots and Cloak work well with your speed, especially if you take Fast Stealth.
Hope that helps. Best,
the Porp.
I'm playing one of these in a pbp right now. Click on my name and view my profile to see how I decided to go.
FYI, the skill ranks are one level off based on RAW due to my pbp DM's advancement rules. Everything else should match up nicely.
Let me know your thoughts...
Rogue/cleric works great if you take the knowledge domain as the cleric and make sure to go rogue first for those skill points!!!
I also think you should really consider all the domains possible when multi-classing a cleric.
Freddy, there's no first level skill point bonus in Pathfinder. You can take the classes in either order.
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I took the rogue to level 3 - this gave me the extra sneak attack damage (total +2D6), rogue talent (trap spotter) & the +1 trap sense & evasion
druid is level 3 now & will be the class I will continue with most likely without going back to rogue - The Animal companion will suffer a bit for it but only a few levels worth as will spellcasting
the party did not have a rogue so I took it to gain some ability to remove traps & spot them just by being near them plus the sneak attack will help wildshaping attacks with the AC flanking opponents if the rest of the party cant or wont