I've been having great fun with the critical hit deck!
I would like to know more about the considerations that went into balancing the various crits. My main concern is that one of my players wields a warhammer, and the benefit for a x3 bludgeoning weapon seems sub-par. The bludgeoning crit cards on average deal less standard damage, and only one triple damage card in the whole deck. Slashing and piercing get multiple triple damage cards, some of which deal additional special damage as well!
Drawing two cards and selecting the better of the two seems like a very limited reward, especially if your base for selection is inferior.
Can I get a few words from the designers or a knowledgeable fan on how these decks were meant to be balanced?
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I would like to know more about the considerations that went into balancing the various crits. My main concern is that one of my players wields a warhammer, and the benefit for a x3 bludgeoning weapon seems sub-par. The bludgeoning crit cards on average deal less standard damage, and only one triple damage card in the whole deck. Slashing and piercing get multiple triple damage cards, some of which deal additional special damage as well!Drawing two cards and selecting the better of the two seems like a very limited reward, especially if your base for selection is inferior.
for x3 I have the player drop it to x2 and draw a card... for x4 I drop it to x3 and draw a card...
for x3 I have the player drop it to x2 and draw a card... for x4 I drop it to x3 and draw a card...
I don't think I understand what you're saying here.
A x3 weapon would do x2 damage and get a card draw.
That's an interesting suggestion, but it really doesn't address the disparity between Piercing and Bludgeoning.
Chief Technical Officer
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Those of you playing with the first print run of this deck might want to check out the "Optional Rules" card we added in the second print run. There are images of both sides of it on the product page. It includes our suggestions on how to handle critical multipliers greater than x2.
Thanks vic! I didn't have that rule in mine.
I still feel future versions ought to ensure bludgeoning gets a fair shake, since even those optional rules don't address that.
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in my game the player draws an additional card for each x1 beyond 2, so a x2 draws one card, a x3 draws two cards, and a x4 draws 3 cards. Now when you get a card that says double damage, the first card makes your damage x2 if the next card you get says double damage it's treated like like x3, if you get a double and a triple its x4, if you get a double and a normal its x2. Thats for two cards, if a x4 crit, it would be three doubles is a x4, two doubles and a triple is a x5, and although I've never seen it, if it's possible two triples and a double would be x6, and (also unseen and not even sure if it's possible by the deck) three triples would be a whoping x7, then back towards reality, a double and two normals would be x2, two doubles and a normal would be x3. I think that covers all posibilities. I've played with a x4 weapon in this system and I loved getting crits so much I built my weapon and feats around criting (including luck feats to turn a nat 1 into a nat 20) and while crits were great, I never got anything crazy like a x6 or x7 damage.
Oh and we played it every card takes effect, not choose one effect. It actually made people use bigger multiplier weapons in our games since the standard was always 19-20x2 and 18-20x2 weapons, I never saw people using a x3 or x4 weapon other than bows before hand but now people actually like big crit weapons, although they still lean more towards higher crit rates to higher modifiers.
Thanks vic! I didn't have that rule in mine.
I still feel future versions ought to ensure bludgeoning gets a fair shake, since even those optional rules don't address that.
I don't have my deck with me and I haven't yet had a chance to use it, but from just looking at those sample cards on the site, Bludgeoning doesn't seem to be getting the short shaft to me. Maybe those sample cards just happen to be the good ones for Bludgeoning, but they seem to be about on equal ground.
I made a table of all 52 effects from each damage type. Bludgeoning comes up about 20% less in damage multiplier, and has no clear advantage in effects. In fact, both the other types have triple damage plus effect crits, including a death effect. If I were optimizing and my gm used this deck, bludgeoning would be out of the question
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I use Critical Hits and Critical Fumbles from PAIZO every game, and have for the past years since these came out.
To me, game balance has become some kind of ideology that I reject. Just have fun with the cards!
I keep the CRITS in a red card box, and the Fumbles in a white one. Players draw, apply weapon type... stuff that doesn't apply means draw another card, and as the GM I have last say. Works great - lots of fun. Usually about 2 card drawn per session on average since I don't give out a lot of "keen" weaponry.
Edit: As the GM I use these against the players too!
Sorry, I need to clarify. My issue with the "balance" is simply that one pc in my game draws fewer cards with weaker effects. That's not the result he would have without the cards.
He's a good sport about it, but as gm, I want my game to be fair. That is all "balance" means to me in this context. Thanks for listening!
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Sorry, I need to clarify. My issue with the "balance" is simply that one pc in my game draws fewer cards with weaker effects. That's not the result he would have without the cards.
He's a good sport about it, but as gm, I want my game to be fair. That is all "balance" means to me in this context. Thanks for listening!
I always allow them to either draw the card and do as it says or do their damage multiplier, their choice when they crit. Also each player only gets one draw per combat.
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You know, speaking of balance, I've playtested this quite thouroughly over two years, there is nothing wrong with a player with a higher multiplier drawing multiple cards and getting every effect applicable. It actually makes players want to play higher crit weapons instead of more often crit weapons, you'll see a mix of both and they'll both love the crit deck. It's when the player with the bigger multiplier only gets one card that the deck seems to screw the higher crit weapons.
a couple other things, in my games the crit effect drawn is what you get even if not applicable, (Say the crit that makes the target loose flying) so sometimes crit whiff as it were.
And watching a DM try to describe crits that involve entirely different body parts can really exercise the DMs creativity.
As a player I'd vote for the cards every time (hit and fumble decks). As a DM I wouldn't, but my players always overrule me. For my group, the cards add flavor. On average, they don't result in a greater effect than just applying the crit multiplier and I always give them the choice of drawing from the deck or using their multiplier. Your guy, if he's getting lower results from the deck, might want to just use his multiplier. My players always seem to go for the deck.
BTW, we use the cards for just about everything we play. For Star Wars Saga we just draw a card and interpret the results as best we can.
M
This would all make sense if we weren't talking about a disparity between damage types-where there was none before. It feels like posters are ignoring the inital question: if the sum of all bludgeoning cards is weaker than other types, and the most powerful bludgeoning card is weaker than the three most powerful cards of other types, we take numbers that were presumed fair (crit multiple) and make them weaker. none of the suggested fixes will help unless they apply only to bludgeoning weapons.
I know this isn't an obvious problem, since you need to compare all cards of a category. But it is there. I'm not questioning the balance of the deck as a whole- just the bludgeoning category.
Thanks!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Yes, Evil Lincoln, I have been amused by how people just keep skipping the initial question.
Let me ask: have you taken a look at the Fumble deck? Maybe the bludgeoning fumbles are also less terrible.
Otherise, you could compensate by giving bludgeoning weapons an untyped +1 bonus on base damage whenever the weapons score a critical hit. So the overall effect of a critical is strengthened, even though it does fight-ending damage less often.