mrbobvilla |
Hi All,
I am playing a Tiefling in my next campaign and I just found out that one of the other PCs is planning on playing an Aasimar. I just get the feeling that our characters probably won't get along well due to our opposite natural predispositions.
Now all out warfare wouldn't be a good idea since we are supposed to be on the same team, but I am thinking general bitterness and dislike would be great!
Keeping that in mind, does anyone have suggestions for good insults and quips I could casually say to the Aasimar? I suppose all the general goodie-two-shoes type insults would apply but does anyone know of any good insults I could say directly related to Aasimars?
DitheringFool |
i would say that everyone is just as likely to be influenced by their up bringing as their "natural predispositions," even tieflings and aasimars.
As your DM I would require both players to write up very detailed back stories and then expect you both to roleplay that character. If you're a bitter, good-hating tiefling then yes, you may be a bit sarcastic toward your opposite (unless he turns out to be a mean SOB)...
Xum |
There is no racial problem there. They have no history of war or bitterness against each other as a race.
Dwarves and Elves are much more bitter towards one another, as they are with most Orc and goblinoid races.
As it is stated on Planescape since the beggining, they have a touch of the outer planes, but that's pretty much it, the upbringing is more likelly the reason they would not get along, if they will at all.
Beckett |
That's not really true, depending on how the DM runs the world. If it is very cosmopolitan and everything is shades of grey, it's probably true.
However, Aasimars (I'm going from 3E here) are described as very good aligned, honest, generally loved wherever they go, trusted, and being from very heroic stock. On the other hand Teiflings are noted as being devious, untrustworthy, sneaky, and deceptive. While not as evilly aligned as say Drow, a good teifling is rare, while neutral and evil being common.
More likely than not that would put the two races on opposite sides of most major wars or battles, so they very likely do have some history of being against each other much more than Elves and Dwarves (just smaller scale).
Additonally, they probably do not have many exceptions to the rule like the elves and dwarves (teaming up to destroy the ring, fight the dragon highlords, etc . . .).
Mikhaila Burnett 313 |
There is no racial problem there.
In every Wizards product where both Tieflings and Aasimar are both present, there is a bit in each one's description describing their problems with one another. To paraphrase the Planar Handbook:
"aasimars save their distrust for tieflings" and "Aasimars... often trigger an instinctive fear or revulsion in tieflings, making it difficult for them to work together at all"
To this point in Pathfinder canon, I can't recall mention of the interaction of aasimar and tieflings at all. There's no mention in the Bestiary, which I like. However, depending on your source, yes there is a problem with tieflings and aasimar working together.
As re: the OP. Insulting an aasimar should be easy. Just go for their pride, then their appearance (most have a distinctive celestial feature, latch onto that) and then their very nature. Snide little "Of course we'll rescue the princess.." type comments should work well.
Quandary |
If you're mostly Good and tend to hate/blame your Infernal ancestors for their causing pain and suffering in mortals' lives (including your own, especially), then allying yourself with Good allies inclined to fight against Devils and their allies would be reasonable and make sense - I don't see how one of them being Aasimar fundamentally changes that (though their presence may draw out certain self-shame aspects, RP-wise, perhaps spurring you to 'out-Good' the Aasimar not for personal glory but as redemption).
If you're Evil and "ally" with Devils, I don't really see how your attitude to an Aasimar would be fundamentally different than your attitude vs. working with a group of do-gooders in general. So if you're Evil and trying to fit into a mostly-Good group also containing an Aasimar... Probably the best way to corrupt the Aasimar into Hell's grasp (and get ahead yourself for corrupting such a 'prize') would be PRETENDING you're shameful of your heritage and appear to admire the Aasimar while looking out for any way to take advantage of their weaknesses/proclivities for Sin & Corruption, or getting everybody to accept Lawful agreements/contracts you can later twist to your own ends.
I think it comes down more to your character's moral outlook than your race.
Have fun!
grasshopper_ea |
Hi All,
I am playing a Tiefling in my next campaign and I just found out that one of the other PCs is planning on playing an Aasimar. I just get the feeling that our characters probably won't get along well due to our opposite natural predispositions.
Now all out warfare wouldn't be a good idea since we are supposed to be on the same team, but I am thinking general bitterness and dislike would be great!
Keeping that in mind, does anyone have suggestions for good insults and quips I could casually say to the Aasimar? I suppose all the general goodie-two-shoes type insults would apply but does anyone know of any good insults I could say directly related to Aasimars?
If you're talking about a blood feud between races I would think there would hatred be more between demon tiefling spawn and devil tiefling spawn than between tiefling and aasimar. If you're talking about a character you design to hate aasimar then yes, that will be the case. You get to decide your character's prejudice's. Gnomes don't HAVE to hate kobolds, but the majority of them do. It's your character run with it.
Xum |
Through old canon, as I said, there is no RACIAL problem. It's not like Drow and Elf for instance. The races do have their tendencies toward good and evil, as many races do, but in history there is no problems beetween them. Just the overall racial issue that most people do.
What I'm saying is, if I am a paladin I'm more inclined to trust an Aasimar than a Thieflin, thats for sure, but there is no problems toward them or something like that.
Set |
Nobody asks for their parents. Any animosity would be character by character. Neither Tieflings, nor Aasimar are an established culture or society, and they haven't been at war with each other.
Most Tieflings probably resent their fiendish ancestor for the mistrust they've endured. Most Aasimar have never met whatever celestial entity gave them shiny skin and radiant eyes, marking them as different from their human parent(s) and friends, nor specifically asked for any glorious expectations from local good-aligned clergy.
If anything, an Aasimar and Tiefling have a unique connection that they share, both being pre-judged by a fact of birth beyond their control and that they never asked for. A Aasimar 'preacher's daughter' who wants nothing more than to live her life free of the expectations and disappointed stares of those who expect her to be a paladin or something because she was born with golden skin, could make a good ally to a Tiefling Cleric of Cayden Cailean, who holds anyone who judges him by his red eyes and horned forehead in contempt, instead of judging him by the choices he has made and the good deeds he has done.
DM_aka_Dudemeister |
What a well timed thread. I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne for 2 groups.
Two players in one of my groups had the brilliant idea of being twin siblings. One a Tiefling, the other an Aasimar. The Tiefling is a (CG) fighter (going into wizard and arcane archer), while the Aasimar is a (LG) cleric of Iomedae. I swear I'm the luckiest DM ever to have such juicy background stuff to play with. I still haven't decided the specifics of how such an unusual pair of siblings came to be, but it should be fun when they find out.
In any case the Aasimar player has been playing her character as a "holier-than-thou" cleric, she believes that through the awesome power of Iomedae she can somehow redeem her brother's tainted blood. For his part the Tiefling was judged harshly by their noble born parents, and turned to drugs to cope with his outcast nature. When he disappeared the Aasimar and the rest of the family thought him dead. He was only just reunited with her in the first session of the game. He quit the drugs (although he's still a problem drinker), and found god (well Cayden Cailean, which is close enough). He loves his sister but finds her patronising. She loves her brother but finds him irreverent. Such a great dychotomy. (Throw in an ex-prostitute halfling that doesn't like anyone prettier than her, a lawful evil sable company marine and a chaotic good barbarian that refers to himself in the third person and you've got a real party ^_^)
A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
Michael Fellows |
Hi All,
I am playing a Tiefling in my next campaign and I just found out that one of the other PCs is planning on playing an Aasimar. I just get the feeling that our characters probably won't get along well due to our opposite natural predispositions.
Now all out warfare wouldn't be a good idea since we are supposed to be on the same team, but I am thinking general bitterness and dislike would be great!
Keeping that in mind, does anyone have suggestions for good insults and quips I could casually say to the Aasimar? I suppose all the general goodie-two-shoes type insults would apply but does anyone know of any good insults I could say directly related to Aasimars?
I think sarcasm will probably be your best bet. Give him honorifics he doesn't have/deserve. "your lordship" followed by an overextended bow will probably irritate him to no end.
You could always go with "sparkles" as a nickname.
One angle you might consider is that you are good friends in spite of every reason you have not to be, while still having this need for constant one-upsmanship over each other. Or, you know, bitterness and dislike works too.
DM_aka_Dudemeister |
In regards to the OP.
Just take the philosophical life differences between the two races. An Aasimar will have had a lot of his life handed to him on a plate thanks to his celestial heritage. A Tiefling would have to work and scrape for every scrap of respect he gets.
False honorifics would probably rankle the Aasimar. Otherwise refuse to call the Aasimar by their given name:
Sample quips:
On working together: "C'mon your holinessssss, looks like you and I are on scout duties."
On missing an attack: "No fair! Goldenrod's halo was distracting me!"
On seeing the Aasimar fail a check: "Not so perfect now are ya?"
On failing where the Aasimar succeeds: "Of course, I don't have anyone upstairs looking out for me."
On seeing the Aasimar reach -1 hit points: "HEY! I called dibs on murdering the glitterbug! Get your filthy stinkin' paws off him!"
KaeYoss |
There can be tension between the two races, but there doesn't have to be.
If they acknowledge their ancestry, there might be bad blood between them because they have a "professional dislike" towards each other's ancestries.
But if they both see themselves as misfits, bastard children of those who don't accept them as their own, they might forge a bond, as they see more in each other as in their supernatural ancestors.
I say it depends much more on the individual than on the respective races themselves, and of course their nature and alignment. LE characters (be they aasimars or tieflings) will be judgemental.
And talking of alignments: Remember that neither race is required to take after their ancestors. You can have an evil aasimar, or a LG tiefling paladin (in fact, one of the pictures in the Pathfinder aasimar articles is a cleric or paladin of Torag)
Dwarves and Elves are much more bitter towards one another
Are we talking Pathfinder Chronicles here? Because on Golarion, they don't have much bad blood between them.
They have little enough to do with each other, and good fences make good neighbours. And they both have the same enemies (they both hate orcs and goblinoids, and they would both hate drow if knowledge of that race were commonly known).
grasshopper_ea |
What a well timed thread. I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne for 2 groups.
Two players in one of my groups had the brilliant idea of being twin siblings. One a Tiefling, the other an Aasimar. The Tiefling is a (CG) fighter (going into wizard and arcane archer), while the Aasimar is a (LG) cleric of Iomedae. I swear I'm the luckiest DM ever to have such juicy background stuff to play with. I still haven't decided the specifics of how such an unusual pair of siblings came to be, but it should be fun when they find out.
In any case the Aasimar player has been playing her character as a "holier-than-thou" cleric, she believes that through the awesome power of Iomedae she can somehow redeem her brother's tainted blood. For his part the Tiefling was judged harshly by their noble born parents, and turned to drugs to cope with his outcast nature. When he disappeared the Aasimar and the rest of the family thought him dead. He was only just reunited with her in the first session of the game. He quit the drugs (although he's still a problem drinker), and found god (well Cayden Cailean, which is close enough). He loves his sister but finds her patronising. She loves her brother but finds him irreverent. Such a great dychotomy. (Throw in an ex-prostitute halfling that doesn't like anyone prettier than her, a lawful evil sable company marine and a chaotic good barbarian that refers to himself in the third person and you've got a real party ^_^)
mommy was a summoner with extend spell?
Weylin |
After reading the Tiefling chapter of Bastards of Erebus especially the description of tieflinf psychology. It seems to me that a tiefling and aasimar becoming friends or even civil working partners can usually take a bit of effort.
With the outsider heritage seems to come certain inclinations that have to be consciously overcome. The general gist of the chapter is that evil coes easy for tieflings it comes easier than good. Which makes good an active choice for them not a default state and it mentions that it is something they will never be rid of short of some major magic. The article does mention that the level of "inner darkness" and the strength of the pull varies widely from tiefling to tiefling. For some it is trivial to ignore it, for others they have to constantly keep a check on it and for some unfortunates it doesnt matter they cant resist it.
I imagine in general it is inverted for aasimar. And genasi would have similar issues.
Personally, I like this sort of aspect to the planetouched races. These are people with heritage of outsiders for whom their alignment or temperment is often a strong part of what makes them what they are.
I never liked people playing any planetouched as just a human with some celestial/fiendish/elemental powers. I think that cheapens the races in question. I much prefer when some one plays tiefling and they roleplay having to deal with that darkness. Or a aasimar who has to overcome his inherent good to do what is necessary but distasteful. or a fire genasi who has a temper problem...an air genasi who has trouble focusing on things. I think playing these primal mindsets really lets those characters shine for what they are...part-human and part primal force (this includes tieflings and aasimar).
just my thoughts.
-Weylin
Sean K Reynolds Contributor |
Zurai |
I'd wonder aloud if the aasimar's celestial parent was given permission to have offspring with a mortal. And then wonder aloud if said parent got kicked out of Heaven for not obeying the rules.
This is why you work for Paizo and I don't. Wow, what a brilliant plot hook for a set of aasimar/tiefling siblings. I'm going to have to use this at some point.
Quandary |
Good or Evil is not a default state for Humans.
Whether or not you are Good or Evil or Neutral over-all does not force you to interact in a certain way with a specific individual, and I don't even think "not liking somebody" qualifies as leading you towards Evil.
Anyhow, it looks like everybody has re-hashed most of the points well enough already :-)
EDIT: Hm... Aasimar = Celestial "Love-Child" Tiefling = Abyssal/Infernal "Love" Child?
Set |
The mother may have thought of herself as the best thing since Iggwilv, binding up outsiders, because no mortal bloodline was good enough for her offspring. She bore a child of celestial bloodline and one of infernal ancestry (and neither, frustratingly, had the half-celestial or half-fiendish qualities she had hoped for, being 'merely' an aasimar and a tiefling, which she regards as proof that her own bloodline was 'too strong for them' and that she needs to bind up *stronger* outsiders to produce heirs that she considers worthy of her legacy!).
The aasimar and tiefling children are lucky. When she does finally produce the half-celestial and half-fiendish children that she seeks, she intends on having them fight to the death for the right to inherit her name. (In theory, the planetouched kids would serve their superior sibling, but she hasn't really kept tabs on these 'disappointing failures,' and they obviously have other plans.)
Yeah, she's cuckoo for cocoa-puffs. Probably disowned from her actual family, for her whacky ideas, and now determined to prove that her blood is better than that of those who cast her out.
kyrt-ryder |
Good or Evil is not a default state for Humans.
Whether or not you are Good or Evil or Neutral over-all does not force you to interact in a certain way with a specific individual, and I don't even think "not liking somebody" qualifies as leading you towards Evil.
Anyhow, it looks like everybody has re-hashed most of the points well enough already :-)EDIT: Hm... Aasimar = Celestial "Love-Child" Tiefling = Abyssal/Infernal "Love" Child?
First off, I always thought Aasimar and Tiefling were descended from Celestials and Fiends, not direct offspring of them (I thought that was what the half-templates were for.)
Secondly... I would guess that either a Tiefling (if I'm mistaken about their origons) or a half-fiend is less likely (though still possible of course, I'd imagine fiends are capable of love and kindness, but extremely unlikely) a "love" child, and more of a... "LOOK AT WHAT THAT BASTARD DID TO ME MAMMA TAKE ME TO THE HERBALIST!" *SMACK* "Girl I don't care who the daddy is your going to raise that child" *SMACK AGAIN* "Got it?" lol
Diego Valdez Contributor |
Weylin |
I'd wonder aloud if the aasimar's celestial parent was given permission to have offspring with a mortal. And then wonder aloud if said parent got kicked out of Heaven for not obeying the rules.
Sean,
Basically a Grigori-Nephilim relationship of Celestial Parent-Half Celestial/Aasimar?
Have gotten so much good story out of that legend in modern supernatural games. Could make equally good or even better story in a fantasy setting.
Campaign Idea: The main adversary is a celestial who has suffered an alignment shift to evil or neutral with evil leanings. Years ago they fell in love with a human, but their lawful good patron god denied them the posibility of being together. The celestial did so anyway and when next they returned to the god's realm they were put on trial for disobedience. They were stripped of some of their power and exiled to the Prime Material. There the exile tried to find the mortal they loved only to find that person had moved from the area. Bitter at their exile and now losing the love they were exiled for they began taking out on the world....and this is the Aasimar PC's parent.
-Weylin
Quandary |
Kyrt: That's what I meant, my "Love" child t(in supposed to be suspicous separate quotes vs. "Lovechild" was probably way too subtle in an Evil sortof way.
I agree, Tiefling/Aasimar seem more like "1 drop of..." bloodlines than being "half" outsider... I just couldn't resist playing off Sean's take on it, though.
Weylin |
Quandary wrote:Good or Evil is not a default state for Humans.
Whether or not you are Good or Evil or Neutral over-all does not force you to interact in a certain way with a specific individual, and I don't even think "not liking somebody" qualifies as leading you towards Evil.
Anyhow, it looks like everybody has re-hashed most of the points well enough already :-)EDIT: Hm... Aasimar = Celestial "Love-Child" Tiefling = Abyssal/Infernal "Love" Child?
First off, I always thought Aasimar and Tiefling were descended from Celestials and Fiends, not direct offspring of them (I thought that was what the half-templates were for.)
Secondly... I would guess that either a Tiefling (if I'm mistaken about their origons) or a half-fiend is less likely (though still possible of course, I'd imagine fiends are capable of love and kindness, but extremely unlikely) a "love" child, and more of a... "LOOK AT WHAT THAT BASTARD DID TO ME MAMMA TAKE ME TO THE HERBALIST!" *SMACK* "Girl I don't care who the daddy is your going to raise that child" *SMACK AGAIN* "Got it?" lol
In Pathfinder Adventure Path #25 - Bastards of Erebus that changed in Golarion, kyrt.
In there it mentions that a fiend-mortal pairing can result in a half-fiend or a tiefling due to poorly understood laws of the lower realms. Basically a failure for enough of the outsider parent's essence to transfer. This means it can also result in a sorcerer with the appropriate bloodline, a human with the Bastard of Erebus trait or even a human whose later descendents might manifest as a tiefling.
I imagine the similar would hold true regarding celestial and elemental heritage or even any outsider.
The same article also goes into that it is difficult to abort an outsider pregnancy and that even with a skill caster and spells the mother may not survive. As well divination magic is strangely obscured when trying to determine the unborn's species.
-Weylin
Quandary |
I imagine the similar would hold true regarding celestial and elemental heritage or even any outsider.
Nice. I can see this rationale working for a PC who wants half-Janni heritage (for b/g flavor) to be of the "Suli" race in a game where the Half-Janni Template would be inappropriate (like PFS for one).
Weylin |
Weylin wrote:I imagine the similar would hold true regarding celestial and elemental heritage or even any outsider.Nice. I can see this rationale working for a PC who wants half-Janni heritage (for b/g flavor) to be of the "Suli" race in a game where the Half-Janni Template would be inappropriate (like PFS for one).
That is part of what I like about the change, Quandary.
You can keep the flavor even if you dont have the mechanic.
I would apply that option to any of the outsider inheritors. As well as inverting it. In a line that carries the taint of a devil, you may have a child generation later born as a tiefling or it could be a half-fiend despite the generations between them and the fiendish parent.
-Weylin
Sean K Reynolds Contributor |
Basically a Grigori-Nephilim relationship of Celestial Parent-Half Celestial/Aasimar?
Sure. As I mentioned in another thread, my book The Bonds of Magic: The Faithful has a paladin aasimar descended from an angel and a paladin tiefling in the same holy order who is descended from the angel after he Fell.
Oh, and I wrote this book called Anger of Angels that talks about all the classical types of angels, including the grigori and the nephilim....
Campaign Idea: The main adversary is a celestial who has suffered an alignment shift to evil or neutral with evil leanings. Years ago they fell in love with a human, but their lawful good patron god denied them the posibility of being together. The celestial did so anyway and when next they returned to the god's realm they were put on trial for disobedience. They were stripped of some of their power and exiled to the Prime Material. There the exile tried to find the mortal they loved only to find that person had moved from the area. Bitter at their exile and now losing the love they were exiled for they began taking out on the world....and this is the Aasimar PC's parent.
Cool stuff. :)
Weylin |
Weylin wrote:Basically a Grigori-Nephilim relationship of Celestial Parent-Half Celestial/Aasimar?Sure. As I mentioned in another thread, my book The Bonds of Magic: The Faithful has a paladin aasimar descended from an angel and a paladin tiefling in the same holy order who is descended from the angel after he Fell.
Oh, and I wrote this book called Anger of Angels that talks about all the classical types of angels, including the grigori and the nephilim....
Weylin wrote:Campaign Idea: The main adversary is a celestial who has suffered an alignment shift to evil or neutral with evil leanings. Years ago they fell in love with a human, but their lawful good patron god denied them the posibility of being together. The celestial did so anyway and when next they returned to the god's realm they were put on trial for disobedience. They were stripped of some of their power and exiled to the Prime Material. There the exile tried to find the mortal they loved only to find that person had moved from the area. Bitter at their exile and now losing the love they were exiled for they began taking out on the world....and this is the Aasimar PC's parent.Cool stuff. :)
Sean, I will have to recommend those books to one of my game masters. Only one of them runs D&D of any form. And she absolutely loves an angelic flair. We commonly use various heresies in our modern games, especially the "Sammael is actually the good guy and God is Ialdaboath and actually an opressor". Just ended a game with that angle actually.
We dont do it much in our D&D/Pathfinder games, but our modern games usually draw very heavily on the more legendary aspect of beings.
-Weylin