Why buy a spyglass?

[Dragonseye7]

Sense their is nothing in the errata, why would anyone buy a spyglass that states on page 157 in the Core Rulebook "Characters using a spyglass takes a -1 penalty on Perception skill checks per 20 feet of distance to the target." Shouldn't it be a bonus?

[Matthew Morris]

Dragonseye7 wrote:

Sense their is nothing in the errata, why would anyone buy a spyglass that states on page 157 in the Core Rulebook "Characters using a spyglass takes a -1 penalty on Perception skill checks per 20 feet of distance to the target." Shouldn't it be a bonus?

It is. Normally it's -1 per 10 feet.

[Neodymium]

better than 3.5 when there didn't seem to be any mechanical benefit at all.

[lostpike]

Neodymium wrote:

better than 3.5 when there didn't seem to be any mechanical benefit at all.

Plus it just sounds cool. "I whip out my spyclass extend it to three feet in length and scan the distance for enemies."

[varianor]

lostpike wrote:

Plus it just sounds cool. "I whip out my spyclass extend it to three feet in length and scan the distance for enemies."

Say, what resolution is that? 1200 dpi? ;)

[DM_Blake]

It's only a -1 on Spot checks; it doesn't help with Listen checks...

What?

Oh, well, nevermind.

On a lighter note (pun intended), to answer the OP, I buy spyglasses to cut down my encumbrance. The spyglass weighs only 1 pound, while 1,000 gold weighs 20 pounds. Even 100 platinum weighs twice as much as the spyglass.

When I travel, I convert all my coin into spyglasses so that I'm not encumbered. Then, when I get to the next town, I can sell one whenever I need pocket cash.

[Sharoth]

DM_Blake wrote:

It's only a -1 on Spot checks; it doesn't help with Listen checks...

What?

Oh, well, nevermind.

On a lighter note (pun intended), to answer the OP, I buy spyglasses to cut down my encumbrance. The spyglass weighs only 1 pound, while 1,000 gold weighs 20 pounds. Even 100 platinum weighs twice as much as the spyglass.

When I travel, I convert all my coin into spyglasses so that I'm not encumbered. Then, when I get to the next town, I can sell one whenever I need pocket cash.

I spy with my eye...

[Rezdave]

DM_Blake wrote:

I buy spyglasses to cut down my encumbrance. The spyglass weighs only 1 pound, while 1,000 gold weighs 20 pounds.

[threadjack]

That, sir, is what gems are for. My world has a standardized system for the use of "trade gems" which function basically like high-denomination bills. PCs can convert gold into gems and gems into gold. Exchanges limits and fees are based upon the community they are in, but money-changers generally charge 3-10%. Not bad, really.

[/threadjack]

FWIW,

Rez

[DM_Blake]

Rezdave wrote:

DM_Blake wrote:

I buy spyglasses to cut down my encumbrance. The spyglass weighs only 1 pound, while 1,000 gold weighs 20 pounds.

[threadjack]

That, sir, is what gems are for. My world has a standardized system for the use of "trade gems" which function basically like high-denomination bills. PCs can convert gold into gems and gems into gold. Exchanges limits and fees are based upon the community they are in, but money-changers generally charge 3-10%. Not bad, really.

[/threadjack]

FWIW,

Rez

Gems, shmems.

You can't hardly sneak a peek at the queen's petticoat from all the way down on the wharfs with a gem, can you?

Besides...

Gems are not nearly as fun to juggle.

[Quijenoth]

DM_Blake wrote:

Gems, shmems.

You can't hardly sneak a peek at the queen's petticoat from all the way down on the wharfs with a gem, can you?

Besides...

Gems are not nearly as fun to juggle.

True but you only need 1 spyglass to sneak a peek at the queen's petticoat :)

Also the sellback on a spyglass is far more detrimental to your cash. assuming basic rules you buy a spyglass for 1000gp but sell it for only 500gp. Whereas gems retain their full value based on the appraise check minus a small handling fee on about 2% to 10% unless the jeweler is trying to rob you :)

[Exoow]

Matthew Morris wrote:

It is. Normally it's -1 per 10 feet.

No, literally it's +1 DC per 10 feet (p. 102). It boils down to the same, but the wording for Spyglass is rather confusing because of its opposite wording.

[Klebert L. Hall]

It's for drinking spies from.
-Kle.

[Magicdealer]

Exoow wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

It is. Normally it's -1 per 10 feet.

No, literally it's +1 DC per 10 feet (p. 102). It boils down to the same, but the wording for Spyglass is rather confusing because of its opposite wording.

No, normally it's 10 feet. The spyglass changes the increment to 20 feet. That's the difference.

[Exoow]

Magicdealer wrote:

No, normally it's 10 feet. The spyglass changes the increment to 20 feet. That's the difference.

I know that's what it intends to say... But the wording isn't correct.

Spyglass talks about a increment penalty but this penalty is nonexistent, since the Perception skill mentions a DC increase per increment.

[Magicdealer]

... but... but they're the same thing...

Start off with a dc 10, and a roll of 20. If you add one to the dc, making it 11, then you beat the dc by 9.

If instead you apply a penalty of -1 to the roll, making it 19, then you beat the dc by 9.

A penalty on a roll is equivalent to an equal increase in dc. It just depends on which way your mind is coming at it. If you're talking about a rock cliff where you want to make the climb more difficult, you can apply a penalty due to wind or increase the dc due to a smoother rock face.

The wording is referring to the same idea in two different ways that are equivalent.

[Rockhopper]

Shouldn't a penalty apply to the character and the DC increase apply to the challenge? I.e., I get a penalty to skill checks because I'm drunk/armored/whatever, while the DC goes up if the task itself is harder?

[HaraldKlak]

This is one of the most impressive thread necromancies I have seen in a long time...

[cranewings]

The spy glass isn't just for spotting enemies. I think you have to apply some GM judgement for its use.

If you are using it to scan the horizon, I don't see how it will be much better than your naked eye. Its annoying and in the way. It shouldn't help. Your eyes are pretty good on their own.

On the other hand, if you detect "movement" in the distance but the GM tells you it is too far away to see, pull out your spyglass and get a look at what it is.

Or, if you were watching a building in the distance with a couple of windows, it might be difficult to watch them all effectively, especially if there is a lot of other stuff going on. If you were looking for tiny disruptions, like shadows or blinds moving, it would be impossible. I would let the spy glass cut out all those penalties. You give up the ability to see everything to look at one place clearly.

The spy glass is complicated, and the tiny block of text doesn't do it justice. If its important to you, let the GM expand on it.

But you should use it the way people really use them. You don't see marines on patrol with their night vision at x5 magnification while they are just sitting around. Pirates don't pull out their spy glass to look for a ship until the guy in the crows nest points it out.

[Ryzoken]

cranewings wrote:

The spy glass is complicated.

No, not really. It reduces penalties for viewing things at long ranges, to the tune of half the penalty normally accrued. Not complicated. Not rocket-surgery. Needs no houserules.

Unless you meant it was complicated from an optics standpoint, at which point I would disagree, depending on context. All a spyglass really is is a pair of lenses in a tube. Once you've established what light does when subjected to this arrangement of tubes and glass, its operation is simple: apply to eye in a non damaging manner and look through the tube at stuff in the distance. If objects are insufficiently large/clear, adjust length of tube or distance from object.

...

I've a character who counted among his possessions a much prized spyglass. It proved infinitely useful in a variety of circumstances, but none moreso than the instance in which it allowed him to nuke a beholder that was holed up in a strange Line of Sight blocking antimagic bubble. Normally antimagic wasn't a major concern, as he was a 3.5 Conjuration blaster mage, but the LoS blocking in conjunction with the antimagic made life difficult... until he popped his trusty , entirely non magic spyglass out and used it to penetrate the bubble, much like a periscope. The spyglass's outer brass shell blocked the bubble's LoE, allowing vision to pass through the tube, allowing my mage to lob Orbs of death into the spherical monster within the sphere.

When the character retired from adventuring, he gave all his equipment to his protege, except for his trusty cowl (constant mindblank) and spyglass.

[Exoow]

Magicdealer wrote:

... but... but they're the same thing...

Exactly, we (all) agree on what the mechanics are.

A uniform description just would've been clearer. (End of rant. ;-)

Ryzoken: creative usage!

[LazarX]

lostpike wrote:

Neodymium wrote:

better than 3.5 when there didn't seem to be any mechanical benefit at all.

Plus it just sounds cool. "I whip out my spyclass extend it to three feet in length and scan the distance for enemies."

Spyglasses and Fezzes. two ways to be cool.

[Mike Schneider]

Perception penalties are badly-written: that ship sailing on the horizon far out to sea? You cannot see it, either with the naked-eye or a spyglass -- because at approximately 400ft for the best of us (800 w/spyglass), the speed of light slows to an infinitesimal crawl in Pathfinder!