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I am wondering now if I have been using AoO + Combat Reflexes wrong all the time.
Here is the text:
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
I have bolded the confusing part. I have always ruled this to mean that each kind of AoO action in the same round from the same person can give one AoO. So, an archer firing his bow 3 times while in reach of a fighter with Combat Reflexes would only provoke one AoO for action of firing his bow. If that archer were to fire his bow once then move out of the threatened area then he would provoke 2 AoO.
So if each use of the bow provokes an AoO why is the bolded text needed?
Can anyone thing of any situation that anyone would make more then one AoO for just one action? Or is this the "Keep it Simple and Stupid" kind of text? Like, "lets mention it just in case".
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Might be a case of making sure people don't try to rules lawyer it. I can see people saying "Well, I have 10 AoOs so I will use 5 of them when the archer tries to fire his bow. It doesn't say I can't do it in the rules!". Going through the posts on the message boards it seems like if the rules don't explicitly state you can't do something, people will try to do it. Since it is giving you more attacks of opportunity it want's to make sure you know you can't use those extra attacks all at once.
EDIT: In the case of the archer firing 3 arrows that would allow 3 AoO, one for each arrow fired.
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I am wondering now if I have been using AoO + Combat Reflexes wrong all the time.
standing up from prone provokes an attack of opportunity as a move action. if you then tried to trip your opponent without the correct feats that too would provoke another attack of opportunity.
attempting to disarm someone with a full attack without the feat would provoke an attack of opportunity from each attack seperately.
Your example of a ranged attack would also provoke for each individual attack technically but some DMs may be lenient and rule that since a full attack is one action only 1 AoO is provoked.
An attack of opportunity “interrupts” the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).
The bold text you highlighted is there to help people understand that even with an 18 dex and 5 AoOs per round you cannot make 5 AoO when a character provokes for trying to stand up from prone.
I am wondering now if I have been using AoO + Combat Reflexes wrong all the time.
Here is the text:
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.I have bolded the confusing part. I have always ruled this to mean that each kind of AoO action in the same round from the same person can give one AoO. So, an archer firing his bow 3 times while in reach of a fighter with Combat Reflexes would only provoke one AoO for action of firing his bow. If that archer were to fire his bow once then move out of the threatened area then he would provoke 2 AoO.
So if each use of the bow provokes an AoO why is the bolded text needed?
Can anyone thing of any situation that anyone would make more then one AoO for just one action? Or is this the "Keep it Simple and Stupid" kind of text? Like, "lets mention it just in case".
The reason that text is there is so that someone with combat reflexes and a dex of 18 knows they cannot attack the guy getting up from prone 5 times. In the case mentioned above an archer that fires 3 shots will provoke 3 attacks of opportunity from a character with combat reflexes (and dex high enough ofcourse).
Have to agree with most of the posters here. I've always taken it as each action that provokes. So, Bob is on the ground being stabbed by a goblin with a 20 dex and Combat reflexes (6 AoO).
Bob stands up, Goblin get's an AoO.
Bob does a second move action to run away from the Goblin, Goblin get's a second AoO.
Bob realizes he ran the wrong way (toward a trap) so turns around and tries to run through the goblin's square using Acrobatics. He rolls upon entering the 5 foot square in front of the goblin, and fails his Acrobatics roll and provokes a third AoO.
Bob did three different actions and got three AoO against him. The Goblin didn't get 3 while he was standing up, only one AoO for each action Bob did that provoked.
The sentence following the one in question says; "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same oppponent in the same round doesn't count as more thanone opportunity for that opponent." So I think that they were trying to illustrate that point more clearly.
The sentence following the one in question says; "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same oppponent in the same round doesn't count as more thanone opportunity for that opponent." So I think that they were trying to illustrate that point more clearly.
You're right! Holy crap, doesn't this intimate that an archer firing three arrows does NOT provoke three AoOs?
The sentence following the one in question says; "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same oppponent in the same round doesn't count as more thanone opportunity for that opponent." So I think that they were trying to illustrate that point more clearly.You're right! Holy crap, doesn't this intimate that an archer firing three arrows does NOT provoke three AoOs?
Hmm, I'd say as long as it was part of a full attack action, then yes.
If something granted him another action (Like Snake's Swiftness for example) I'd rule that was another action and another AoO.
Tnx for the answers all.
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If shooting a bow works like unarmed strikes for attacks of opportunity (which I would rule it does), then I'd say that each shot from the bow provokes.
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
It hints here that each unarmed strike provokes, not one per round. Since there isn't a paragraph on ranged attacks provoking (Although it is in the table), I would assume it works like unarmed strikes.
The sentence following the one in question says; "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same oppponent in the same round doesn't count as more thanone opportunity for that opponent." So I think that they were trying to illustrate that point more clearly.You're right! Holy crap, doesn't this intimate that an archer firing three arrows does NOT provoke three AoOs?
I don't think so. The comment about moving out of multiple squares provoking only 1 AoO is because the movement is still all part of a single action - the move action - and not discrete different actions.
Taking multiple attacks however are all defined as discrete "actions" even if taken as part of a full attack action.
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So if each use of the bow provokes an AoO why is the bolded text needed?
The test is there for Move actions. If you take a Move action you would provoke for each square you leave that was a threatened square (but since the line prohibiting you from provoking more than once you don't.)
The archer would provoke for either only the first or for all three depending on the DM's interpretation of Full Attack action. If he interprets the Full Attack action as "the 3 attacks as one action" then he can only provoke once. If he interprets it otherwise (I don't believe he should) then he would provoke for each "ranged attack."
Alizor,
I do not see how the line you quoted hints that each unarmed attack would provoke an A.O. I think that the line about moving only drawing one A.O. does hint that a full attack action would only draw one A.O.
Individual actions invoke attacks of opportunity. A full round action is just that, one action. It only invokes one attack of opportunity in my book. The same goes with unarmed attack.
If, on the other hand, you try to do a ranged attack from 5' away, and then follow that up by quaffing a potion, expect to be hit twice (unless you drop the opponent within reach with your first attack).
Individual actions invoke attacks of opportunity. A full round action is just that, one action. It only invokes one attack of opportunity in my book. The same goes with unarmed attack.
If, on the other hand, you try to do a ranged attack from 5' away, and then follow that up by quaffing a potion, expect to be hit twice (unless you drop the opponent within reach with your first attack).
I don't know if I agree with that as a blanket rule. Spring Attack let's you move, attack, move as a full round action. You don't provoke AoO from your target, but, you would from the people around him.
__|_A|_B|_C|_D|_E|
_1|__|__|_Z|__|__|
_2|__|_M|_b|__|_c|
_3|__|__|__|__|__|
_4|__|__|_a|__|__|
Z = Zack
M = Mack
a = Start
b = Attack Zack
c = Ending Position
So, in the above, if you started in C4 (a), and did a Spring Attack to move to C2 (b), attack Zack, and then run away to E2 (c), you'd provoke an AoO from Mack twice. The first when you ran past his threatened square (C3) to attack Zack, and again when you run away from his threatened square (C2) to get away from Zack. You only did one full action, but you moved, attacked, and moved again. Three separate actual actions, but two AoO.
Individual actions invoke attacks of opportunity. A full round action is just that, one action. It only invokes one attack of opportunity in my book. The same goes with unarmed attack.
If, on the other hand, you try to do a ranged attack from 5' away, and then follow that up by quaffing a potion, expect to be hit twice (unless you drop the opponent within reach with your first attack).
I don't know if I agree with that as a blanket rule. Spring Attack let's you move, attack, move as a full round action. You don't provoke AoO from your target, but, you would from the people around him.
__|_A|_B|_C|_D|_E|
_1|__|__|_Z|__|__|
_2|__|_M|_b|__|_c|
_3|__|__|__|__|__|
_4|__|__|_a|__|__|Z = Zack
M = Mack
a = Start
b = Attack Zack
c = Ending PositionSo, in the above, if you started in C4 (a), and did a Spring Attack to move to C2 (b), attack Zack, and then run away to E2 (c), you'd provoke an AoO from Mack twice. The first when you ran past his threatened square (C3) to attack Zack, and again when you run away from his threatened square (C2) to get away from Zack. You only did one full action, but you moved, attacked, and moved again. Three separate actual actions, but two AoO.
It's like a deadly game of connect four.. I love it.
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Alizor,
I do not see how the line you quoted hints that each unarmed attack would provoke an A.O. I think that the line about moving only drawing one A.O. does hint that a full attack action would only draw one A.O.
It says in it that an attack provokes. Each attack in a full attack is an "attack action," hence why you can mix trips, disarms, etc. in a full attack action. Each attack (attack action) should provoke then. As I said it hinted it, it does not say it outright.
I have bolded the confusing part. I have always ruled this to mean that each kind of AoO action in the same round from the same person can give one AoO. So, an archer firing his bow 3 times while in reach of a fighter with Combat Reflexes would only provoke one AoO for action of firing his bow. If that archer were to fire his bow once then move out of the threatened area then he would provoke 2 AoO.
So if each use of the bow provokes an AoO why is the bolded text needed?
Can anyone thing of any situation that anyone would make more then one AoO for just one action?
I always thought it was for cases like the following:
- A tiny creature moves 20', ending its move in a PC's square. This provokes an AoO for two reasons (leaving a threatened square, and entering an occupied square), but the PC only gets one AoO.
- A PC tries to sunder something with a gauntleted fist, but he doesn't have Improved Sunder or Improved Unarmed Strike. This provokes an AoO for two reasons (making a sunder attempt, and making an attack with an unarmed strike), but the target doesn't get two AoOs.
I'm sure I could think up some more similar scenarios if I had enough time.
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If shooting a bow works like unarmed strikes for attacks of opportunity (which I would rule it does), then I'd say that each shot from the bow provokes.
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.It hints here that each unarmed strike provokes, not one per round. Since there isn't a paragraph on ranged attacks provoking (Although it is in the table), I would assume it works like unarmed strikes.
Full attack actions don't promote AOOs.
Is there an exception to this rule somewhere that says using a ranged weapon in a full attack action provokes an AOO?
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If shooting a bow works like unarmed strikes for attacks of opportunity (which I would rule it does), then I'd say that each shot from the bow provokes.
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.It hints here that each unarmed strike provokes, not one per round. Since there isn't a paragraph on ranged attacks provoking (Although it is in the table), I would assume it works like unarmed strikes.Full attack actions don't promote AOOs.
Is there an exception to this rule somewhere that says using a ranged weapon in a full attack action provokes an AOO?
And the other problem with this is this quote from Full-Round Action:
"After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. "So if you make the first attack (throw a dagger, say) and don't specify whether it's going to be a full attack or an attack and then move, how can the DM know if that provokes an AOO until after that decision is made? Suppose the dagger thrower then decides to move, making his attack a standard action - would those in threatening squares then retroactively get their AOOs. But the AOO is supposed to happen BEFORE the attack.
I'd say this is a deficiency in the rules, unless you want to go back in time, take the AOO, and then take the first attack. But now that's a different result, so the dagger thrower might want to make it a full attack after all! Time loop! Time travel is not the way to go, I can see. I think we need a rule change here...
If shooting a bow works like unarmed strikes for attacks of opportunity (which I would rule it does), then I'd say that each shot from the bow provokes.
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes, nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.It hints here that each unarmed strike provokes, not one per round. Since there isn't a paragraph on ranged attacks provoking (Although it is in the table), I would assume it works like unarmed strikes.Full attack actions don't promote AOOs.
Is there an exception to this rule somewhere that says using a ranged weapon in a full attack action provokes an AOO?
And the other problem with this is this quote from Full-Round Action:
"After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. "So if you make the first attack (throw a dagger, say) and don't specify whether it's going to be a full attack or an attack and then move, how can the DM know if that provokes an AOO until after that decision is made? Suppose the dagger thrower then decides to move, making his attack a standard action - would those in threatening squares then retroactively get their AOOs. But the AOO is supposed to happen BEFORE the attack.
I'd say this is a deficiency in the rules, unless you want to go back in time, take the AOO, and then take the first attack. But now that's a different result, so the dagger thrower might want to make it a full attack after all! Time loop! Time travel is not the way to go, I can see. I think we need a rule change here...
Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack. The disagreement seemed to be whether or not all of the attacks as part of a single full attack action would provoke, or just a single provoking for making the full attack action.
There are new feats/abilities in the APG to negate this for some ranged attacks, but in general this is the case.
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Making a ranged attack Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack. The disagreement seemed to be whether or not all of the attacks as part of a single full attack action would provoke, or just a single provoking for making the full attack action.
There are new feats/abilities in the APG to negate this for some ranged attacks, but in general this is the case.
"Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack."
I looked all over the core rules for that but couldn't find it. Can you point me to it?
Making a ranged attack Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack. The disagreement seemed to be whether or not all of the attacks as part of a single full attack action would provoke, or just a single provoking for making the full attack action.
There are new feats/abilities in the APG to negate this for some ranged attacks, but in general this is the case."Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack."
I looked all over the core rules for that but couldn't find it. Can you point me to it?
Table 8-2 on pg 183 has a general list of what normally provokes. I don't know as it's spelled out more than that, as it's a hold over from 3.x.
Hope this helps.
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Making a ranged attack Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack. The disagreement seemed to be whether or not all of the attacks as part of a single full attack action would provoke, or just a single provoking for making the full attack action.
There are new feats/abilities in the APG to negate this for some ranged attacks, but in general this is the case."Making a ranged attack while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity regardless of whether its a full attack action or a single standard attack."
I looked all over the core rules for that but couldn't find it. Can you point me to it?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---final
Attack (ranged) Attack of Opportunity Yes
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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering---final/combat---finalAttack (ranged) Attack of Opportunity Yes
Right, and this is listed under Standard Actions.
Under Full Round Action, it says "Full Attack - AoO - No"
Note that the 3.5 rules say the same thing:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullAttack
So I ask again, as written, from what I've seen, if you use a full attack action for your ranged attack, you don't provoke and AOO. This could be because you're concentrating on your attack more, not moving, etc. You're able to defend yourself because it's not just a "quick shot". I don't know if that was the intent, or if this is just an oversight.