How would you resolve stupid tricks with a whip, such as take out a pipe, a cigar or a cigarette from someone's mouth (without hurting that person), remove buttons from a vest or cut the rope from which pants hang? This character was raised in a circus :D. All I can figure is that Improved Disarm should be involved somewhere.
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Generally speaking, I just let my players get away with this kind of shenaigans without trouble. It doesn't affect combat and it makes them look cool.
I don't let them get away with it when it's an important non-combat encounter, and such a display might sway the outcome of the encounter. Or when it's an important NPC I don't want to see "embarrassed" by the upstart adventurers. For these situations, CMB works well (because no one has CMB feats, so yeah. Insta-fail).
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i would also argue that, for perform value, you have to make multiple skill checks. as a DM, i could see a character like that in my game having to make the following skill checks:
a CMB check (to successfully complete the maneuver)
or
an attack roll (against a fine sized object)
and
a sunder/disarm check (to complete the action as intended by the player)
followed by
a Perform check (to make it look flashy)
but that is just what i would ask of my players.
Peebo :D
If it is a performance, I would allow the person holding the cigarette or whatever to offer a +2 aid another.
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I personally, would simply make it an attack, with a small AC shift. Depending on the actual thing attempted, up to a +8 AC, but other things might not apply, and other size modifiers would not stack (so a smaller creature would actualy get less overall benefit). Normal AC would probably not apply, though (for the things you mentioned like a pipe). Shields might, if they are combat ready.
Personally, I'd :
Take the persons Attack Bonus with the whip (including feats and enhancement Bonus's on the whip)
Set the target number based on how hard what they are doing is :
Snapping a rope between two poles that are a foot apart (DC 10)
Snapping a long cigarette out of someone's mouth (DC 15)
Snapping a short cigarette out of someone's mouth (DC 20)
Snapping balloons off someone without hitting them (DC 25)
Snapping buttons off a shirt without hurting them (DC 30)
If they succeed against the DC with an attack roll, then have them make a Perform (Acting) check (with a bonus equal to 1/2 the DC they made in their attack check, +1 for every 5 they made it by). The higher they roll the more the crowd is 'wowed' by the action.
For example :
Person has a +15 to hit with the whip, he attempts to knock balloons off someone without hitting them (DC 25). He rolls a 15, and makes a DC 30. If he has Perform (Acting) 10, he'd get a bonus of 12 (1/2 DC of attack), plus 1 (5/5 = 1) to be 13. He rolls, his perform acting and get's a 10. 10 + 10 + 13 = 31 (crowd oohs).
Same person attempts to knock buttons off a shirt without hurting the assistant. Rolls a 16. Succeeds with a 31. Makes a perform (Acting) check and rolls 15. 15 + 10 + 15 = 40 (crowd goes crazy and cheers).
Same person attempts to knock the cigarette out of someone's hand instead (DC 15). Rolls a Natural 20. So, he made a DC 35. His perform check is 10 + 7 (1/2 dc) + 4 (20/5). He rolls a 10 to get 31 (crowd oohs).
Generally speaking, I just let my players get away with this kind of shenaigans without trouble. It doesn't affect combat and it makes them look cool.
I don't let them get away with it when it's an important non-combat encounter, and such a display might sway the outcome of the encounter. Or when it's an important NPC I don't want to see "embarrassed" by the upstart adventurers. For these situations, CMB works well (because no one has CMB feats, so yeah. Insta-fail).
+1 to this! Less rules, more flashy moves unless the BBEG is around. Heck, even then....
How would you resolve stupid tricks with a whip, such as take out a pipe, a cigar or a cigarette from someone's mouth (without hurting that person), remove buttons from a vest or cut the rope from which pants hang? This character was raised in a circus :D. All I can figure is that Improved Disarm should be involved somewhere.
There are two cases to consider here.
If that person is in combat, or in other ways actively trying to prevent you from hitting them or their stuff with your whip, this is a either a Sunder or a Disarm attempt.
It really doesn't matter which you use, since in both cases you're using your CMB vs. the target's (creature, not item) CMD, and the HP and harndess of cigars and buttons is negligible, so either way, they go flying, in pieces or not.
As far as size modifiers go, by RAW (unless I missed something), it looks like the creature's size modifier is what applies, so for example, it's much easier to knock a 3" cigar out of a titan's lips than it is to knock a 3" cigar out of a leprechaun's lips.
To that I say "Bah!" and a hearty "Hogwash!" to boot. That makes no sense; I hope I missed something in the RAW.
So for me, I would apply the size modifier of the item rather than the size modifier of the creature. Let the creature's size modifier apply when you're bullrishing, grappling, overrunning, or tripping him, but sunders and disarms should use the item's size modifier, IMO (maybe the RAW has something about this and I missed it).
The other case is when that person is standing still and letting you line up your shot (like you would typically see in a circus side-show), in which case it's much easier. Even automatic (depends on whether you call this a melee attack or a ranged attack - me, I would say it's ranged if the target is farther away than an adjacent square, even with a whip, but RAW says the whip is a melee attack, so RAW seems to say this trick is automatic if you take a full round):
Objects are easier to hit than creatures because
they don’t usually move, but many are tough enough to shrug
off some damage from each blow. An object’s Armor Class is
equal to 10 + its size modifier (see Table 7–11) + its Dexterity
modifier. An inanimate object has not only a Dexterity of 0
(–5 penalty to AC), but also an additional –2 penalty to its AC.
Furthermore, if you take a full-round action to line up a shot,
you get an automatic hit with a melee weapon and a +5 bonus
on attack rolls with a ranged weapon.
I don't imagine cigars or buttons have enough hardness or HP for this to matter in the slightest, so any hit is a success.
However, regardless of which case you're discussing here, rope has 2 HP and is immune to damage from whips (see the rule on page 174: objects are immune to non-lethal damage), so I don't think you can cut a rope with a whip at all (and my experience IRL would not refute that). Therefore, I would take your "cut the rope from which pants hang" off the list - RAW says it's impossible.
Lots of complex stuff...
Wow, that's a whole lotta rules for something as simple as this.
Me, I'd much rather just make one roll and be done with it, unless for some reason the outcome of a story line or adventure hung in the balance, in which case, I might go some route similar to the 4th edition "Skill Challenge" just so one single roll wouldn't screw up weeks worth of adventuring/story-telling.
Other than that corner case (I find it far-fetch to base a whole storyline on such an outcome, so I doubt it will come up, not in that sever a context), this is a one-roll trick in my book.
Each to their own.
Lots of complex stuff...Wow, that's a whole lotta rules for something as simple as this.
Me, I'd much rather just make one roll and be done with it, unless for some reason the outcome of a story line or adventure hung in the balance, in which case, I might go some route similar to the 4th edition "Skill Challenge" just so one single roll wouldn't screw up weeks worth of adventuring/story-telling.
Other than that corner case (I find it far-fetch to base a whole storyline on such an outcome, so I doubt it will come up, not in that sever a context), this is a one-roll trick in my book.
Each to their own.
Well, to me, that's the detail I'd go into if they were putting on a show and it was important to the RP. For example, they are performing for a prince, or trying to make money in town. That's the idea I had when I posted.
If it was just to show off in a tavern or on a street corner and it wasn't important to the ongoing plot, I'd probably just add their attack with the whip to their perform skill, add 10 and say that was their ability to perform on a regular basis. And use that as how good they are at tricks when they are just goofing around.