In the same vein of several threads recently started on these boards, I'd like the community, particularly those who have been in OP campaigns for years, to toss out ideas about how to bring new players to the table and keep them.
A few things to keep in mind:
1. Paizo is still a small company. Ideas that cost a lot of money are not likely to seriously be considered.
2. Keep it constructive. Leave the rhetoric behind. I don't want to hear "that idea stinks and I'll quit if you do it." That doesn't help at all.
3. I want to hear from everyone. I know I said above that I especially wanted to hear from people who have done OP for a while, but I know that some new or young players out there have good ideas too and I want to hear them.
4. This isn't a thread to complain about the perceived quality of the scenarios or the 2.0 Guide rules or anything of that nature. I want to hear ideas about getting the word out, suggestions you might have for the regional coordinator network that we're building, opinions on prize support, how you'd feel about the campaign's coordinator visiting your small local con, etc.
Help me help you make Pathfinder Society the mecca for OP that it should be. Looking forward to reading your ideas.
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I think that the biggest thing I can think of would be a rules light version of Pathfinder. It has been an idea that has been thrown about on occasion and it would definately make the game more accessabl to new players. I have been playing RPGs off an on since I was 5 years old, 1978 for those keeping track, and I was a litl intimidatd when I saw the pathfinder core rulebook. I can only imagine how it must look to new players.
Edit: The book could have human, elf, dwarf, and halfling as races; fighter, cleric, rogue, and either wizard or sorcerer as classes and basic items, spells, and rules. It would also have a lower price point which would also be attractive to green players.
We're talking about that. But that's not something I can necessarily make happen as the Events Manager. I'm looking for ideas that me, Mr. Events Manager, could potentially put into place to get new players for the Society.
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Ah, I see. Let me think about it and I'll get back to you. Wht about supplying FLGS with posters that advertise the PFS. Perhaps that is already being done. Since my FLGS closed I would not know. Another thing that I liked about the RPGA is the idea that to orginize an event, you had to become certified to be a DM by demonsrating at leas a basic understanding of the rules.
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I think if you could work with local Boys and Girls clubs or YMCA organizations. Maybe donate some books set up game days you could introduce kids to a "new" experience.
The best part of our hobby is it encourges reading and has a low cost of entry.
Another route would be to market to college "Gaming Clubs" College Campuses are where a number of people got their first taste of RPG's...
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What about an introductory tale that doesn't involve rules at all. Just a quick role playing set piece (an hour or so) that showcases the setting and mood of Golarion and the PFS.
Maybe include some handouts, rules lite versions of the Iconics, and a 'Welcome to the PFS certificate' of some kind as a take home for the players.
Several ideas:
1) In first ed AD&D advertized the RPGA in thier books.
2) You could also do your own Mods/Swag on World-Wide Gameday(s).
3) Get a player/GM rewards system going.
4) Mail marketing to people who place orders on the Pazio site about PS.
One thing that has been a barrier to getting the PFS going in my area is the fact that you have to pay for the adventures. I know that Paizo is a small company and needs the revenue, but I can't be the only one who has run into this as a problem.
One thing I know is that no gaming system is filling the void left for people having reasons to hold small conventions. The main draw to these conventions were interactives which could only be played there.
Therefore my suggestion is to start offering interactives and you could gain control of all the non-huge conventions that happen throughout the year.
Therefore my suggestion is to start offering interactives and you could gain control of all the non-huge conventions that happen throughout the year.
Agreed, people travel (go to cons) for specials they can't get at home.
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Local Con Specials my wallet sadly agrees:-(. Having events with limited con only distribution draged me to alot of events I otherwise would not have attended. Meeting new players along the way. If you made a series of faction special events it would sweeten the pot.
As a seperate note our biggest problem in NY for the weekly Gameday is finding an affordable (cheap) space since our FLGS closed in December. Right now we are running 2-3 tables a week at a public space. If we ever find a clean, resonably priced, place that stays open past 11pm I am sure we could get the base up to 4 or 5 tables a week.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I have been working hard to spread PFS locally at game days, meetups, and mini-cons since it started last GenCon and I know that it can be tough roping people in long-term. Just to toss out some ideas in a rather haphazard manner:
1) Everyone who registers for a PFS number gives you their email. Send out monthly newsletters on upcoming scenarios, events, open calls, invitations to participate in ongoing discussions on these boards, contests, etc. If a meta-plot is decided upon based on other discussions, give people updates on how their actions are affecting their faction, the Society, or Golarion as a whole.
2) Create a page long "intro document" to give to new players about the campaign without getting into rules and specifics. I found that I spent a lot of time at meetups explaining to people who just wanted a one-off game why they should register for the Society, and why it was worth them sticking with.
3) Allow play of pregens for new players to provide full XP, prestige and wealth to a new character they can build themselves using the conversion rules from 2.0. This allows them a built-in incentive to make their own PC and download the current GtPFSOP as they actually get to keep what they earned in that first game.
4) Get game stores more involved. At this point, it's up to players/GMs who already know PFS to approach stores to set up games. I tried it at a place that wasn't very open to the idea because they expected Paizo would support them directly for doing so. Right now their only incentive to officially sponsoring PFS is extra people in their store, and for some stores that isn't enough. Supplying signage and resources to aid stores, and possibly other things on the backend that customers wouldn't see would go a long way to helping GMs and players find friendly places to play.
5) Now that players have access to almost every product from Paizo, perhaps providing discounts or coupons for pdfs based on prestige earned, games run, etc as an out-of-game benefit would be an incentive.
6) I agree with others that interactives are key. Perhaps a pool of a few generic interactives could be made available to local con organizers each season, coordinated so that no region had too many repeats. This could provide unique events to get people to Cons. LG had regional scenarios that were only available if you traveled to play them, and I think that PFS is missing out on this sense of scarcity for special things. We're gamers. We like to collect things. If there's something that we have a chance to miss out on, we will most likely go out of our ways to get it.
7) Better communication of upcoming scenarios etc could also go a long way to building anticipation. People are already rabid for info on Kingmaker and can't wait to play it, but there's nothing to be excited for with upcoming PFS material.
8) I'm also excited to see what your network of volunteers will look like. Will we be having similar threads on brainstorming that?
That's what's in my head at the moment. If I think of more I'll post further down thread. Again, thanks for including us in these discussions. It certainly makes PFS feel more like a shared world when we are allowed to discuss and suggest how it will change and evolve.
I have been working hard to spread PFS locally at game days, meetups, and mini-cons since it started last GenCon and I know that it can be tough roping people in long-term. Just to toss out some ideas in a rather haphazard manner:
1) Everyone who registers for a PFS number gives you their email. Send out monthly newsletters on upcoming scenarios, events, open calls, invitations to participate in ongoing discussions on these boards, contests, etc. If a meta-plot is decided upon based on other discussions, give people updates on how their actions are affecting their faction, the Society, or Golarion as a whole.
2) Create a page long "intro document" to give to new players about the campaign without getting into rules and specifics. I found that I spent a lot of time at meetups explaining to people who just wanted a one-off game why they should register for the Society, and why it was worth them sticking with.
3) Allow play of pregens for new players to provide full XP, prestige and wealth to a new character they can build themselves using the conversion rules from 2.0. This allows them a built-in incentive to make their own PC and download the current GtPFSOP as they actually get to keep what they earned in that first game.
4) Get game stores more involved. At this point, it's up to players/GMs who already know PFS to approach stores to set up games. I tried it at a place that wasn't very open to the idea because they expected Paizo would support them directly for doing so. Right now their only incentive to officially sponsoring PFS is extra people in their store, and for some stores that isn't enough. Supplying signage and resources to aid stores, and possibly other things on the backend that customers wouldn't see would go a long way to helping GMs and players find friendly places to play.
5) Now that players have access to almost every product from Paizo, perhaps providing discounts or coupons for pdfs based on prestige earned, games run, etc as an out-of-game benefit would be an...
I hate to sound lame, but ... what yoda said x2 :)
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Interactives and intro scenarios might help. Regional scenarios would help to get more local interaction with the campaign as well.
Regional scenarios would be a great idea. However, I don't think that the PFSor Paizo has the infrastructure to do anything on the scale that the RPGA does as far as regions. I think that the best that we can hope for is adventures that occur outside of Absalom, which would be cool.
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When I was volunteering for Blackmoor, we would have someone stand close to the mustering area at cons and pressgang people from other campaigns whose table didn't make. Several of the campaign staff were quite good at this. They also got in good with the marshal so they'd send stragglers our way.
At several smaller cons I attended alone, I made friends with the registration folks before the event. They would talk people who had empty slots to come over to my table.
So I'd say that we need to find some folks who are willing to scour Warhorn et al, identify a volunteer who would be willing to go preach the PFS gospel, contact the folks running the con, and show up with a handful of pregens and adventures.
Maybe we could send some swag to folks who do this. Sean could send them some autographed DERF or something.
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So I'd say that we need to find some folks who are willing to scour Warhorn et al, ....
Speaking of Warhorn, Josh, did a rep from the site contact you as per this message?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What about making the paizo.com website more of a portal for PFRPG or setting up a new website for the game? Right now, your website is largely a store with a really cool community (and mind you, I'm not bagging on that fact, but it's not a format that is friendly to people who want to learn more and not just purchase what they already know about). It might be helpful to have it (or an ancillary site) set up with an introduction to PFRPG, roleplaying, etc. Then, maybe provide business cards or such to be handed out at events or distributed at hobby stores or other promising venues with the address of the website.
Regional scenarios would be a great idea. However, I don't think that the PFSor Paizo has the infrastructure to do anything on the scale that the RPGA does as far as regions. I think that the best that we can hope for is adventures that occur outside of Absalom, which would be cool.
I think this would be possible on a limited scale. For instance; if it was limited to regional specials and interactives. This would also be a great way to spotlight regional writing talent, as well.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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What about making the paizo.com website more of a portal for PFRPG or setting up a new website for the game? Right now, your website is largely a store with a really cool community (and mind you, I'm not bagging on that fact, but it's not a format that is friendly to people who want to learn more and not just purchase what they already know about). It might be helpful to have it (or an ancillary site) set up with an introduction to PFRPG, roleplaying, etc. Then, maybe provide business cards or such to be handed out at events or distributed at hobby stores or other promising venues with the address of the website.
I think that is exactly what is needed. Having a card/leaflet that offers some description of PFS and directs people to such a gateway website would prove to be an effective way to draw people in. They would be free to explore things on their own rather than being brow-beaten into playing a session. It would also need to allow for quick and easy registration and have an up to date calendar of pathfinder society events. The advantage of such a website would also be that it isn't limited to just the US.
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1. Paizo is still a small company. Ideas that cost a lot of money are not likely to seriously be considered.
The quote it takes money to make money is unfortunately true, however there are a few things that are less damaging on the coin purse. You need to advertise in magazines like Kobold Quarterly, have a presence to link to the Paizo site on things like myspace, facebook and meetup websites as well as your own personal myspace page (if you dont have it already). If you can not do a lot of conventions, at least find a way to get senarios/ ads to people going to those conventions via the boards. The pathfinder products are good. The player base is interested in preserving our gaming hobby. Word of mouth is always the best adertisement.
As Paizo grows, the cashflow for advertisements will have to be there to get non-gamer people to become gamer people. Web comic sites, X-box/playstation fan sites even anime fans may like Pathfinder after they have tried it. I do not think there is an "easy" fix for that player base.
Hope this helps.
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What about making the paizo.com website more of a portal for PFRPG or setting up a new website for the game? Right now, your website is largely a store with a really cool community (and mind you, I'm not bagging on that fact, but it's not a format that is friendly to people who want to learn more and not just purchase what they already know about). It might be helpful to have it (or an ancillary site) set up with an introduction to PFRPG, roleplaying, etc. Then, maybe provide business cards or such to be handed out at events or distributed at hobby stores or other promising venues with the address of the website.
+1. Maybe include forums or sites for the factions to chat in?
Realizing that you're after feedback from experienced GMs here, but I'd like to add a few points.
Played my 1st ever PFS games at Gen Con. The 1st with a pregen, the 2nd with a real character.
- As a noob, I was kinda intimidated by the rules of organized play.
- The factions were really background.
- My character wasn't part of a team, due to low tier and Con dynamics.
- limited vested interest
I would expect that the above issues would be 'fixed' by playing amongst local gamers on a regular basis.
- PFS game cancelled in my area, so I would have to drive ~15 miles to attend the closest one.
I'd be interested in ways to make PFS part of my regular gaming group's rotation, and am trying to make that happen. A 'How To' web page would help a lot.
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What about making the paizo.com website more of a portal for PFRPG or setting up a new website for the game? Right now, your website is largely a store with a really cool community (and mind you, I'm not bagging on that fact, but it's not a format that is friendly to people who want to learn more and not just purchase what they already know about). It might be helpful to have it (or an ancillary site) set up with an introduction to PFRPG, roleplaying, etc. Then, maybe provide business cards or such to be handed out at events or distributed at hobby stores or other promising venues with the address of the website.
This idea I like very much for reasons already mentioned: a portal to direct new sheep to all the exciting information they need! Something easily noted on a flyer or business card as suggested.
My concern with this idea is the fact I have no idea how much it would cost to implement.
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A portal would make a lot of sense, maybe even one written from the perspective of characters in Golarian. Showcase the world, the Pathfinder Society, and all the wonderful things about the game in an interactive, in character experience. This was one of the things that first drew me to Exalted. The comics at the start of each chapter helped me feel like I knew the world, even if I didn't know the rules.
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I think being active in local conventions is going to really get the word out. Maybe have convention packages that come with everyone an organizer needs to run Pathfinder at a convention, for a price of course.
In Living Greyhawk, the reason people traveled to different local conventions were to play unique sanctioned interactives, and of course, to play in new regions.
I'm not saying you need to go with regions (though that would increase travel), but maybe have sanctioned battle interactives that affect a certain region of Golarion, that is only given to a few conventions that request it.
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I'm not saying you need to go with regions (though that would increase travel), but maybe have sanctioned battle interactives that affect a certain region of Golarion, that is only given to a few conventions that request it.
Yeah, a PFS module exclusively for Finland. The airlines sure would be happy! ;)
Personally I wouldn't want any more of those modules exclusive to some place. People in Europe are already unable to attend all these PaizoCon-only interactives (the name escapes me), and considering the limited resources it's not that good of an idea.
Regarding the increase of player base, I'd recommend making a short (one page) description of what's Pathfinder Society and what'd it involve. A flier, so to speak.
More agents going to every possible convention. I mean even these small cons no one has ever heard about. Alternatively you can look at that "Pathfinder Society Grand Lodge" subforum and see which area needs more GMs or players or such. Helping organize small PFS events would be good, I presume.
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I'm an experienced RPGA DM and author for Living Greyhawk. I've played a little LFR but more interested in Pathfinder at this point.
To get new players interested without replays. I'd say make some modules that are Tier 1-2 ONLY. Maybe make one or two free so DMs can download them, along with a Rules lite version of the organized play rules. So DM's running a "home style game" can run the module for his or her players and make it "count" as an official Society module or just for home play.
To have the DM's or players coming back, maybe make a "part 2" to the module as a Tier 1-2 only module and have it available at the store.
Another idea I mentioned to Erik and Josh, have PFS adaptables of Pathfinder modules like Crown of the Kobold King. The module is low level. You'd like the hard copy module to run the adaptable. Its for 2nd level PCs but I'm sure a table of six first levels might be able to handle it. I haven't played it so I'm not 100% sure if thats the case but since its low level. I think it would be a good bridge into the PFS.
Also get the word out to game stores. Here's some posters plastic minis or dice or what not to give out to new Pathfinder Society players like I mentioned maybe a special module to game stores that sign up for a program.
Mike
I would also like to see a little bit more organization on where and how to find something on this website. At the last three cons I have gone to I have seen rule arguements that have come from people just not knowing where to find things or just not understanding what they are reading.
(Ex. Being able to take 2 traits from any group and one not having to be a faxtion trait; That you can buy any item up to your faction prestige point level; ect...)
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Speaking about local cons one complaint I have gotten from Con Organizers was the ink drain for the art work and the advertisements in PFS mods. I realize it looks great and if you are playing from a laptop it is nice to have the artwork, but con staffs run on tight budgets and the Pathfinder mods use up a great deal of ink.
It will be easier to sell the idea of Pathfinder to smaller cons if there were printer friendly versions available.
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I wouldn't mind seeing a little more 'visibility' for the notion of factions themselves.
Right now there are 'Iconics' for Fighter, Cleric, etc. but none of them look remotely Osioroni or evoke a specifically Chelaxian or Andoran or Taldan feel.
With the exception of Kyra, who is clearly Qadiran, the artwork we see all over the place doesn't really speak out to the faction concept, making it seem invisible, and not really part of the setting, to the casual viewer.
Hugo Solis has several extremely evocative Osirioni and Chelaxian pictures, and I'm sure that characters that evoke a more Taldan or Andoran feel would be do-able as well. (The artwork doesn't necessarily have to be Wayne Reynolds, after all.)
A seperate page on the web-site with a picture of the map of each faction's home territory, some flavor text and a couple of pictures of typical characters from that region, could help to attract attention.
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There are some things that could be done to increase pathfinder society turnout. In order of necessity they are.
1: Release the pathfinder rules and beastiary.
This is mostly done and as an organiser i am already seeing a surge in players interested in playing now that the "real rules" are in effect. We have 5-7 tables going off sunday across 2 slots. Before the new rules came out the best we were seeing was 4 and usually only 2 across 2 slots. I know the bestiary is on the way and on schedule. What i am really saying is don't panic yet.
2: You have the better game system out there right now. Act like you know it.
Picking your own path and going with 1xp per mod works amazingly well. Borrowing the replay rules from LFR betrays a lack of confidence that makes what you have to offer seem inferior.
3: State that if anyone volunteers to redo the stat blocks for any year 0 mod that you will bundle that into the zip of the mod pdf to make conversion easier.
I'll bet that would take 10 man hours tops and give a better overall impression than is being given now. Not to say it is all bad.
4: Make some con special event to promote larger local cons.
Having an interactive for every small con out there is too labor intensive. I would recomend having a single faction special mission available per year for each faction. This would give each faction a chace to do what they do best without the interference of others. Make sure that these special missions use most of all of the wierd stuff people had to do to get their faction awards in the first place. Getting alot of people in one place playing works to the herd mentality of people. Some will only try this out if enough other people are seen to be doing it.
5: Tie the mods together better.
From what i have seen from the first 20 mods or so the continuity has been almost nonexistent. This isn't all bad as it frees people to play stuff out of order without spoiling other mods. That the faction missions come off more like a pointless scavenger hunt doesn't help. If you get people buzzing about the story then more of the fence sitters will join in.
6: Stop being lazy with the stat blocks.
Either put them in the back in one place where they can be referenced or write them in full every time they are used. Having a single combat force me to look at 4 different pages in a mod every time i run a mod gets irritating and diminishes the play quality at the table.
I'm sure this has something to do with word count and author payment. I'd suggest to put them in the back grouped by tier and refer to the bestiary of course for anything not custom.
7: Try not to take 6 personal. 6 is just a pet peeve. I promise not to toilet paper the tree in front of your house or anything. DougDoug on the other hand i cannot speak for. :)
Dennis Wheelock
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1) Conventions: The most important part of Pathfinder (and the society) spreading is that Pathfinder has a visible prescence at any and all conventions, both big and small. There are a lot of people who play D&D 3.5 but aren't 100% convinced they would like to play PRPG, this would give many people the opportunity to playtest the game and the society. Also, a lot of people don't even know that Pathfinder is D&D, some visibility, especially the kind that relates Pathfinder to D&D, would help market the game and the society. Also, I feel conventions really reach out to the casual gamer, someone who wouldn't necessarily drop into a local gaming store but could be interested in PRPG.
Ultimately, you need more people willing to step up and DM at conventions.
For example, I live in a city of 4+ million people and there have been 4+ conventions in my general area in the past month and Pathfinder hasn't been at a single one of them, with the exception of the one I'm about to DM at. So why aren't veterans at least DMing a slot or two?
I'm not sure what would motivate people to selflessly DM at conventions. Maybe DM rewards, maybe some kind of status symbol. I'm sure people with more experience at other living campaigns would know what motivates DMs.
2) Gaming Stores: It's also important to host regular games (even once a month) of Pathfinder in local gaming stores. Again, DMs have to step up.
Also, good flyers and info are needed to advertise local games.
3) Meetup.com / Facebook Groups / School Clubs: Again, you need people to step up and promote Pathfinder in your area, associating it with D&D, both online and in person.
4) Associating Pathfinder with D&D: Paizo can't legally do it, but locally we can associate Pathfinder with D&D. In both #1, #2, and #3 it's important.
5) Interactives: Interactives are nice, but first you need an actual player base to support them. Having said that, I think Paizo should travel to and organize four (+) interactives per year at Pathfinder Society "hot spots".
Also, you may want to target conventions that have a large amount of D&D at them but PRPG doesn't yet have a strong prescence, this way you could kickstart it.
6) Scenario quality: The quality of scenarios would probably also help the cause, because it they're freaking awesome, people will want to play. But again, this depends on #1-5.
7) Advertising: Marketing can get expensive but there are things on the web you can do that are (relatively) cheap, but you need a good portal that explains the game and the society in an easy to understand yet exciting way. This costs (some) money with comparitively low returns.
Conclusion: Unless you have marketing $$$, you need local people to step up and DM and promote Pathfinder. Anything that promotes people DMing at conventions, both large and small, would promote the game and the society.
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Josh, I mentioned AEG and what they’ve done with L5R in the other thread but if you take a look at l5r.com you’ll see a lot of what everyone is talking about. AEG has a dedicated site for the game that includes clan (for PFS it would be faction) areas. They also have MySpace pages for every clan. They have Facebook and everything else. I highly recommend looking at their site just to get an idea of what could be done to promote a specific game and metaplot along the lines you’re wanting.
Outside of what’s been listed by everyone else I think there’s a few things related to factions that would help increase popularity of PFS. I like the faction logos for the most part, but a more hip version might make them stand out more. You could either ask one of your artists to create variants or hold a contest to design a new faction symbol, only it has to stay similar enough that it doesn’t take away from what you already have. Regardless plaster those logos on anything and everything that a person might want at a game table or wear in public. Commission jewelry for them so we can purchase and wear it; similar to what White Wolf did for their vampire clan and werewolf tribe symbols for World of Darkness and AEG did for L5R.
I really want to buy a faction shirt, but the Osirion shirt is just awful to look at in my opinion. Now on the other hand if we’re talking a sweet looking original iconic character plastered on a t-shirt then I might change my mind. As mentioned having WAR create iconic characters for each faction wouldn’t hurt. Then once you get those iconics put them to work by plastering them on t-shirts, binders, and what not.
I think you get my general idea. I understand Paizo probably doesn’t want to spend a lot of money on something that’s only niche market. Café Press or another online t-shirt place could take up the burden as far as handling some of the merchandise, such as t-shirts, mouse pads, etc. Paizo might be able to work something out with the one company that does the laser engraving (always at Gen Con but name slips me) about partnering on merchandise. The more visible PFS becomes the better. People will start asking “what does your shirt mean” or “you really like PFS, is it really that good?”
To paraphrase uncle den above: You have the best game system out right now. Show it.
Edit: Just wanted to say that there have been some great suggestions so far.
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One thing I know is that no gaming system is filling the void left for people having reasons to hold small conventions. The main draw to these conventions were interactives which could only be played there.
Therefore my suggestion is to start offering interactives and you could gain control of all the non-huge conventions that happen throughout the year.
very much this.
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One of the things that got me into the Living Greyhawk back in the day was the regional websites. The one for Australia was brimming with information about the area and key NPC's. It was really interesting to read through that rich history and encouraged me to try out the idea of organised play.
So I'll throw my hand up to support Sebastians idea of a specific web page for the Pathfinder version. You have plenty of information on Absalom that could be used plus snippets of the setting books. Obviously I understand you don't want to give away too much of your intellectual property for free bu t enough to wet peoples appetites is a good idea.
Also, those sites had web addresses of organised play co-ordinators for our local area as well, which was very useful for finding when and where games were being held.
Just my 2cp worth.
Cheers
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My first post
There have been a lot of really good comments and I am almost ashamed to chime in with my Idiocy but…
Why not have a special reward for society play, a Widget if you will, after completing X number of scenarios the player gets a “Pathfinder” Amulet ( +1 Amulet of protection or something )and a certificate that can be used in society play.
It costs money, I know, but little things like that that brings them to the tables. One has only to look at a Collectable Card/ miniature Game tournament to see this.
To my understanding Josh is looking to bring more people into Pathfinder Society and all of these suggestions are great for bringing people already familiar with Pathfinder in to try out the OP version. A few of these are dancing around "how do we market Pathfinder itself?"
Every one looks at 3.0 as the "golden area" as far as growth for D&D. Why was it so successful? Many of the current advertising techniques market to current customers and rely on word of mouth to bring in new clientele. One of the reason's why, I believe, 3.0 was so successful was they marketed 'outside the box' through a college tour and (as I seen to recall) a TV spot.
I attended the 3.0 college tour at the U of I. I also remember a TV spot? Not to say that Paizo could budget for either of these (though a spot on G4 and/or SyFy would be great for business). On a smaller scale you could look at doing a YouTube (or even Hulu) spot. You could work with the local game stores, as I and others have mentioned, to do a world-wide gameday-ish promotion.
...On a side note TSR did the D&D cartoon back in the 80's. For cross marketing, how FREEKING AWESOME would it be if Paizo could do a continuous Pathfinder storyline cartoon on Adult Swim, or the like?!
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LG had fluff news that related to the regions that people belonged to. How about in character blogs for the factions.
There would be five blogs that would belong to the faction leaders and written as correspondence to faction members. In said blogs hooks and possibly small hints might be dropped on current or future adventures or maybe discussions on previous years adventures.
Players could act up on said hints and seek out those adventures by finding GMs who have said adventures or convince the GM they have to get said adventure.
There could be shout outs from the faction leader to player characters that have earned a certain amount of prestige, downloads for faction specific character sheets. Links to faction only traits.
In OWOD one of the strengths that seem to draw people in were the way players tied themselves to their character's clans. Having material like splatbooks only made it stronger. Having a blog that did so would keep costs down for players, granted you are still paying someone for writing.
Here is an idea for convention only.
Faction vs. faction events. How about a event written as a head to head competition were table would have to be single faction. The results from the tables indicate which faction gets a benefit for everyone else in the faction for a year.
I don't propose that players fight players, but teams compete, possibly in rounds to see which team works the best. The bonus should be minor and only given to characters that have been in existence before the competition. maybe a +1 moral bonus, or a bonus to day job.
If there's going to be a thir. "Gamers" movie, how about getting them to play (and plug) Pathfinder? One step beyond would be to get a PFS event into the movie.
One thing you could do for advertisement is maybe get Boomer who I know is around here somewhere to do a PDA on youtube just focusing on Pathfinder characters and the game itself...(plus I miss seeing new PSAs)
I would also like to see a little bit more organization on where and how to find something on this website. At the last three cons I have gone to I have seen rule arguements that have come from people just not knowing where to find things or just not understanding what they are reading.
(Ex. Being able to take 2 traits from any group and one not having to be a faxtion trait; That you can buy any item up to your faction prestige point level; ect...)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but those rules are located in one spot: here.
As for organizing the Pathfinder Society page a little better, I'm on it. :-)
Speaking about local cons one complaint I have gotten from Con Organizers was the ink drain for the art work and the advertisements in PFS mods. I realize it looks great and if you are playing from a laptop it is nice to have the artwork, but con staffs run on tight budgets and the Pathfinder mods use up a great deal of ink.
It will be easier to sell the idea of Pathfinder to smaller cons if there were printer friendly versions available.
They can print each module from page 2 to the last text page and then just print the chronicle page by itself. This skips the cover and the 2 ad pages and saves on ink. The rest of the scenario only has maps and a single piece of art--seems pretty printer friendly to me.
If you're asking that we, for example, put out a word document style version of each scenario then, regrettably, the answer is no, we can't do that.
said stuff
Good points. I'll address them.
1. Almost there. :-)
2. I've pushed very hard since the idea of Pathfinder Society first spilled out of my mouth in a meeting to insure that PFS is not just a clone of previous OP campaigns. The XP system and other choices reflect that. I shall continue to operate with this mentality. However, I will also keep in mind what worked in previous OP campaigns and reserve the right to institute ideas that worked into Pathfinder Society. You specifically note the idea of replay--I have not "borrowed" the replay rules from LFR. I've started a thread wherein I want the opinion of the community on the potential idea of using replay in the Society. Frankly, I'm tired of people harping on this point. I go to the community because I'm generally interested in what they have to say before I make a decision on something and that's not a trend I intend to reverse. Just because I ask about something, doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to do it.
3. That's an interesting idea. My hesitance to do something like this is two-fold: 1) we'd be focusing, even in a small way, on working on the past instead of improving the future and 2) it defeats the purpose of PRPG being backward compatible.
4. We've talked about this a lot in house and I will only say that I think it's a good idea and that we are still discussing it.
5. Read the meta-plot thread. :-) There are 14-15 plot-heavy story arc mods planned for Season 1. That's 50%.
6. I appreciate your pet peeve. Consider it considered.
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I’ve had a bunch of different posts all floating around my brain now for over a week and I haven’t had the time to write them out. Honestly, the majority of them involve this topic. So, I’m going to likely combine them into a longer post and put them here. I know that some people have comments similar to what I’m saying but I still feel like I need to put my own thoughts on it. I’m really sorry if this is too long!
I am glad to see that those in charge of Pathfinder Society are looking at taking suggestions on how they can see the campaign grow, and how to make it a stronger, more viable campaign.
One of the largest and most important things that I think would help the campaign is story. I believe this is HUGE and will pull people to your campaign in droves. One of the largest compliments and draws of Paizo’s work is their ability to create a well-written story. I get the impression that a lot of folks expected this to carry over into the Pathfinder Society and I think that your average gamer craves plot devices in a module.
As things stand right now, Pfs is nothing more than a large string of combats with a tiny, tiny bit of story to tie them together. They are all stand alone, one shot modules where the goal is really nothing more than to get loot. This is fine and dandy for a while, but it quickly gets old – I know that I am already bored with pathfinder. Sadly, I know a large group of players that have been holding out hope for season 1 to be different and involve a more of a story than season 0, but after playing at Gen Con they are loosing this hope. The majority of them have been involved with other living campaigns in various management positions and are so disillusioned that we have talked about playing a large ‘home-game’ with the 20-30 people who’d be interested, instead of pathfinder.
Now, I am not saying that every module has to be involved in some overarching plot – far from it. But, I would suggest having SOME plot so that the players can really get a feeling of being involved and important. After all, they are the heroes (or anti-heroes!). If you are worried that not everyone would enjoy playing something other than a 1-shot, I would suggest labeling the adventures into types much like Living Arcanis did. If the mod was plot/RP heavy with no combat, it was listed as a ‘story’ module. If it was nothing more than combat, it was listed as a ‘crawl.’ If it was a one-shot module or involved a story that didn’t really have much to do with the main plot, it was called a ‘soft-point’ and anything that had to do with the main plot was labeled as a ‘hard-point.’ Now, I’m not suggesting you go with these exact labels but having these on the modules help quite a bit to let people know what they were getting into before they sat down. Perhaps some variation would work for Pathfinder.
Something that also might help with the story issue is to loosen up the restrictions on modules and submissions. As things stand right now, with the very small page limit it is difficult to get a lot of background/story information into them. In theory, it is a great page and time saver to expect the DM to be able to go with a little information and flesh it out. However, in my experience, this doesn’t really work in a living setting very well because of a number of reasons. The DM could be new, could be intimidated by the players, the DM might not be quick thinking on their feet, might not have had time to really study the module, the DM might be unfamiliar with the ongoing story and so not feel comfortable adding bits in, etc. It is quite possible to have a heavy page count module fit into a 3 or 4 hour time slot.
I also believe that allowing people to submit any ideas for a module they have will allow you to garner better and more creative modules and will draw those authors who love to write but don’t want to be told what EXACTLY to write about out. (Everyone has to expect some editing but if it is your idea in the first place, I think that people won’t mind as much.)
Another way to help players feel involved is to have their actions actually count or impact the story either through a special event interactive, or a summary that can be turned into the author so that they can see what the majority of players did in the module. I know that when I’ve written modules, I would love to see the interesting and creative things that players did and I was often surprised when the majority of people didn’t do what I thought they would do. I had to rethink more than 1 module because the bad guy I was expecting to perish survived in the majority tables etc. Maybe he shows up at a later date, or maybe he turns other NPCs against the players, etc. There are many options! I also love shades of grey. ;)
I might also get some help for you in running the campaign. Right now, things are smaller and more manageable but as time goes on and (hopefully) the campaign grows, the overall management of the campaign is going to get more difficult for 1 person to deal with. I would suggest getting someone to assist you with say, plot related things, another to edit, etc. This will help from one person getting overwhelmed and allow for more complicated aspects of the campaign to be realized. Having those in charge get burnt out is not good and burn out can happen relatively quickly.
I think that the quick level advancement is fine so long as Pathfinder stays a 1-shot type, beer and pretzel game. But, if you are going to add in more story elements, I would suggest slowing the advancement down because part of the fun of gaming (imo) is not only to test out builds but to test out character concepts – to allow a character to develop and change as you play them and grant them their own special personalities and quirks. My favorite characters are the ones that are not just stats on a piece of paper, but have had various experiences in their adventuring career that I can role-play out. I already have a 10th level character and I’m just now starting to get a really good feel for her personality. (Please note that I do like the 1xp a module thing. I just think that perhaps leveling should scale as you advance. Maybe it takes 4xp to get to level 4, and 5 xp to get to level 5, etc.)
When new players sit down at a table, they are often just making a character on the spot or taking one of the iconics in order to get a feel for the game. In these types of sessions, a player might not make a character that they actually like or one that fits how they’d like it to into the world of Golarion. I would suggest allowing people to rebuild their 1st and 2nd level characters while they learn the rules, familiarize themselves with the world, and pathfinder society in general. I would have these characters freeze when they hit level 3. (Or you could do the same and only allow them to rebuild a 1st level character and have the characters freeze at level 2.)
I think for now, I’ll stop here. These are the largest suggestions that I can see right now. :-)
Thanks,
-Toni
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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ideas about how to bring new players to the table and keep them.
1) Make replay possible (I ran 6 PFS sessions at Dragoncon 2009 and at least 3 times we had trouble making tables because we would have 3 or less that have never play two or more modules. Being able to allow them to play despite having played the module before would have got more players in games without having to turn away players.)
2) WotC had player rewards (the campaign cards and sometimes minis), you know more about the costs of printing up these rewards than I would but if they are sufficiently inexpensive giving them away to players and/or GM's depending on how many games they run would possibly make more games available. More available games could mean more opportunity to play for new players to get involved.
3) Player match making threads? Not sure if these work, but it took me almost a year to find local players in my area. They were holding monthly meetings that I didn't know about for the longest time.
4) Refund a partial amount to the DM for every session he runs of a module? So he buys the module for $4 and for the first 4 sessions he runs he gets $1 refunded. Essentially, run the module 4 times and the module was free to you? I don't know how much of the trivial $4 cost of the modules is critical to your profit, but this could be one way to spur more modules by giving "store credit" back to the GM's.
5) Store Credit coupons for players at special events (say like 1 to 4 a year similar to WotC Wolrd Wide D&D Day) where you can give out $1 or $5 or similar credit to one player at a table for each table ran at these events? Dragon con has a $5 exhibit hall coupon given away for every table ran.
Some of my ideas cost money, I completely understand if budgetary concerns mean that some of these are infeasible. I love your products and truly hope we all benefit from a greatly expanded market for this product line.
3: State that if anyone volunteers to redo the stat blocks for any year 0 mod that you will bundle that into the zip of the mod pdf to make conversion easier.
6: Stop being lazy with the stat blocks.
I agree 100% with these two.