I need help with an NPC conversion to Pathfinder. The NPC was an Ultimate Magus. I am at a loss how to convert that prestige class. Help?
What changed between 3.5 and pathfinder that is making it hard to convert?
|
With the warlock being non-OGL compliant, it will be difficult to convert this prestige class. To be honest, any prestige class that has eldrich power (invocations/eldrich blast) as its main power focus will be hard to convert.
There is nothing in the new core rules to support those powers.
Then just use the old ones. That's the point of backwards compatibility, isn't it?
Or you could just add a few feats, a cmb and cmd and call it good. The system was designed with compatability in mind....
|
Then just use the old ones. That's the point of backwards compatibility, isn't it?With the warlock being non-OGL compliant, it will be difficult to convert this prestige class. To be honest, any prestige class that has eldrich power (invocations/eldrich blast) as its main power focus will be hard to convert.
There is nothing in the new core rules to support those powers.
Ultimate magus is a Mage/sorcerer combo like mystic theurge.
I thought it was the warlock one. :D
Nothing in the PrC really requires conversion. The skill ranks to get in should probably be changed to Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Spellcraft 5, but otherwise, leave it as is.
I already did all that, but is somehow feels lacking. Perhaps some new feats? I considered Extra Rings ability taken from Eberron Artificer, or something like that. I'd like for this class not to be just casting machine.
But it was designed as a casting machine...
|
I already did all that, but is somehow feels lacking. Perhaps some new feats? I considered Extra Rings ability taken from Eberron Artificer, or something like that. I'd like for this class not to be just casting machine.But it was designed as a casting machine...
Yeah, I know. But I need it to be something more. For instance, Monte Cook's Magisters are fine example of what that kind of caster should be. I need something like that for Ultimate Caster as well, but I'm working now on Cleric and Fighter subclasses, so I'm low on inspiration.
Yeah, I know. But I need it to be something more. For instance, Monte Cook's Magisters are fine example of what that kind of caster should be. I need something like that for Ultimate Caster as well, but I'm working now on Cleric and Fighter subclasses, so I'm low on inspiration.I already did all that, but is somehow feels lacking. Perhaps some new feats? I considered Extra Rings ability taken from Eberron Artificer, or something like that. I'd like for this class not to be just casting machine.But it was designed as a casting machine...
Mmmm, then add what you think its missing, but realize your probably tweaking its power upwards at that point. As long as your fine with that, go for it.
|
|
this is a conversion guide that tells you exactly what you need to be concerned with when "converting" classes (of any kind) into Pathfinder...
Step 1: Hit Die match Base Attack (your case...a d6)
Step 2: Strong save is lessened to +5 by 10th level (not +7)
Step 3: Enjoy
PS: Now remember, most of the later stuff that was published by wizards (such as complete mage, champion, scoundrel, etc) is on par with Pathfinder. Where as stuff from the DMG and complete arcane, divine, psionic, adventurer, etc could use a small update. This might include a nifty 10th level ability, maybe a new feature, work with GM or forums for converting older stuff. Newer stuff doesn't hardly need anything. Also, your converting an NPC, you should be even less worried about exact power level than if it was a PC.
PS: Now remember, most of the later stuff that was published by wizards (such as complete mage, champion, scoundrel, etc) is on par with Pathfinder. Where as stuff from the DMG and complete arcane, divine, psionic, adventurer, etc could use a small update. This might include a nifty 10th level ability, maybe a new feature, work with GM or forums for converting older stuff. Newer stuff doesn't hardly need anything. Also, your converting an NPC, you should be even less worried about exact power level than if it was a PC.
The earlier versus later rule is hardly a hard and fast rule. Beguiler would probably drop right into Paizo with no changes (yeah it steps on the sorcerers toes but it always has).
I agree with you WRT Ultimate Magus. I would clear up the wording a bit to make it clear that Practiced Spellcaster doesn't change level progression so at 15th level your character is Wizard 11/ Sorcerer 11 not Wizard 13/ Sorcerer 9.
That practiced spellcaster trick was really the only thing that made the class viable Dennis (Unless you somehow snuck your way into sublime chord or some such.) What I would do, considering how much Pathfinder has boosted the Mystic Theurge, is
I don't agree. A 15th level the wizard has 8th level spells but the Wiz4/ Sor1/ Ultimate Magus 10 can cast quickened solid fog plus empowered acid fog in a single round. Seems a fair trade to me, in particular when sorcerer is only casting spells one level higher.
The class is advertised as a mix between prepared and spontaneous casting this is a red herring. The class is all about being the king of metamagic. A 10th UM is likely burning most of their 4-5th level sorcerer spells to boost their higher level wizard spells and while they are 4 levels lower than a comparable wizard they are casting quickened and empowered spells in most encounters (sometimes quickened empowered spells). You can mix/ match metamagic and multiple spells in a single round to create some very powerful effects such as the above solid fog/ acid fog combo.
Mystic Theurge requires 2nd level casting in both classes making the highest class level 3 lower than a single class character. Most martial/ casting classes lose 2-3 class levels and I think that's a reasonable amount and wouldn't mind seeing Ultimate Magus comparable to that.
My simple fix would be to simply change "+1 to lowest caster level" to "+1 to Spontaneous Casting Class" and change the 7th level spellcasting to "+1 to both classes". That puts the class at -2 CL for the first three levels then drops it down to -3 for the remainder when the class really benefits from the metamagic boosting and also allows the class 9th level spells at 20th level which class doesn't get as written.
So you would be Wizard 4/ Sorcerer 1/ Ultimate Magus 10. You would cast as a 12th level wizard, and a 11th level sorcerer. Alternately you could take 2 levels of Sorcerer and be 12th level sorcerer 11th level wizard.
As a side note, I like that UM allows entry with only 1 level of the secondary class, I would love to see that mechanic on the Mystic Theurge. Then the character doesn't have to suffer through 3+ levels of suck to get to the point where the class is enjoyable.
I don't agree with you Ogre about practiced spellcaster. I also found that it was the only way to make the class work for me in practice - and I'm currently planing one at 22nd level.
Your talk of metamagic fails to take into account the limitations on the ability, and your comparison at 15th level is somewhat disingenuous given the much more explicit limits on the metamagic application at lower levels in the PrC.
|
|
Peter, can you post some inormation on your character here? I'd very much like to see a 22nd level UM. I'm working on a Fighter subclasses right now (skirmisher/scout/swashbuckler, myrmidon/soldier/mercenary and gladiator/kensai), so I could really use some inspiration on what to do with UM when I finish with fighters.
Denis, I like your suggestions. I think I'll use some of them. Thanks.
Peter, can you post some inormation on your character here? I'd very much like to see a 22nd level UM. I'm working on a Fighter subclasses right now (skirmisher/scout/swashbuckler, myrmidon/soldier/mercenary and gladiator/kensai), so I could really use some inspiration on what to do with UM when I finish with fighters.
Denis, I like your suggestions. I think I'll use some of them. Thanks.
Sigh.... that's a lot of formatting to do, but sure.Sure. Keep in mind sue draws on a number of sources. Also, yes, I'm aware of the missing Deflection bonus to armor class. >_>
*Note, this is kind of a poor representation of the stat block, because the original formatting involved significant use of color commands and such to display abilities already used. You can find the original version - and many other epic level characters of the same level - at http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/index.php in the PBP 3e boards - though you'll have to register/log in to see the 3e PBP boards.
Tarina (The Fledgling)
Female Half-Elf
Necromancer5/Beguiler1/Ultimate Magus12/Archmage4
NE Medium Humanoid
Init +10 (+6 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Aura anticipate teleport (130ft.)
Senses Perception +31, low light vision, arcane sight, darkvision, see invisibility
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Druidic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Gnoll, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Lower Planar Common, Orc, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon, +14 more
_____________________________________________________________
AC 31, touch 18, flat-footed 25, (+8 armor, +6 Dex, +5 natural, +2 luck)
hp 212 (22d6 + 133) 17 temporary hit points
Resist +2 vs. enchantment, critical hits (25%), endure elements, fire 20
Immune sleep, negative energy, negative levels
Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +25
_____________________________________________________________
Speed 40ft., fly 40ft., swim 40ft.
Melee masterwork dagger +10 (1d4-1)
Melee runestaff of power +11 (1d6+1)
Ranged +16 touch (by spell)
Base Atk +10; CMB +9 CMD 27
Attack Options Augment casting (9-1/day), arcane reach, mastery of elements, mastery of shaping,
Special Actions Command undead 16/day (DC 18)
Combat Gear bracers of arcane freedom, runestaff of power, wand of cure critical wounds (50 charges), wand of deathward (50 charges), wand of restoration (50 charges), masterwork dagger.
_____________________________________________________________
Beguiler Spells Per Day (Caster level 21st)
6th (4-2/day)—greater dispel magic, mass suggestion (DC 30), mislead, overwhelm, repulsion, shadow walk, true seeing, veil
5th (7-2/day)—break enchantment, dominate person, feeblemind (DC 29), friend to foe, hold monster, incite riot, mind fog, rary's telepathic bond, seeming, sending, swift etherealness, teleport
4th (9/day)—charm monster, confusion, crushing despair, dimensional anchor, freedom of movement, greater invisibility, greater mirror image, locate creature, mass whelm, phantom battle, rainbow pattern, solid fog
3rd (9/day)—arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, crown of veils, deep slumber, dispel magic, displacement, glibness, halt, haste, hesitate, hold person, inevitable defeat, invisibility sphere, legion of sentinels, major image, nondetection, protection from energy, slow, suggestion (DC 27), vertigo field, zone of silence
2nd (9/day)—blinding color surge, blur, daze monster, detect thoughts (DC 25), fog cloud, glitterdust, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, knock, master's touch, mirror image, misdirection, see invisibility, silence, spider climb, stay the hand, touch of idiocy, vertigo, whelming blast
1st (10/day)—charm person (DC 25), color spray, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, disguise self, expeditious retreat, hypnotism, mage armor, obscuring mist, rouse, shield, silent image, sleep, undetectable alignment, whelm
0th (Unlimited)—dancing lights, daze, detect magic, ghost sound, message, open/close, read magic
Necromancer Spells Prepared (Caster level 27th, Prohibited Schools Enchantment & Illusion)
10th (2/day)—quickened chain lightning (DC 29), chained finger of death (DC 31)
9th (4+1/day)—energy drain (DC 33), mage's disjunction (DC 32), prismatic sphere (DC 32), time stop, wail of the banshee (DC 33)
8th (4+1/day)—dimensional lock, horrid wilting (DC 32), mind blank, polymorph any object (DC 31), prying eyes greater
7th (4+1/day)—energy immunity, finger of death x2 (DC 31) (+2 CL), limited wish, planeshift (DC 30)
6th (6+1/day)—chain lightning (DC 29), disintegrate x2 (DC 29), greater dispel magic, karmic retribution, split empowered enervation (+2 CL)
5th (7+1/day)—baleful polymorph (DC 28), cloudkill (DC 28), field of resistance heart of fire, overland flight, reciprocal gyre, split enervation (+2 CL), wall of stone
4th (7+1/day)—anticipate teleportation, assay resistance, bestow curse (DC 28), dimension door, enervation x2 (+2 CL), otiluke's suppressing field, scrying
3rd (7+1/day)—alter fortune, arcane sight, halt undead (DC 27), heart of water, heroism, melf’s unicorn arrow, phantom steed, wind wall
2nd (7+1/day)—darkvision, false life x2, glitterdust (DC 25), gust of wind, resist energy, scorching ray x2
1st (8+1/day)—endure elements x2, featherfall, magic missile x2, identify, protection from evil, protection from good, ray of enfeeblement
0th (Unlimited)—arcane mark, detect poison, light, mending
_____________________________________________________________
Abilities Str 8, Dex 22, Con 22, Int 36, Wis 18, Cha 23
SQ arcane bond (negative energy protection ring), armored mage (light), contingency, expanded spell knowledge (dimensional anchor, master's touch, protection from energy, shield, teleport), spell power +5, trapfinding
Feats Arcane Thesis (Enervation), Chain Spell, Empower Spell*, Extend Spell*, Improved Initiative, Leadership, Persistent Spell*, Practiced Spellcaster (Beguiler), Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard), Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll*, Skill Focus (Spellcraft)*, Spell Focus (Enchantment & Necromancy), Split Ray
*Bonus Feat
Epic Feats Improved Spell Capacity
Skills Acrobatics* +28, Appraise +18, Bluff +31, Craft (alchemy) +17, Diplomacy +31, Disable Device +10, Escape Artist +11, Fly* +28, Knowledge (arcana) +38, Knowledge (history) +38, Knowledge (local) +38, Knowledge (the planes) +38, Knowledge (religion) +38, Linguistics +38, Perception +31, Sense Motive +29, Spellcraft +44, Stealth +31, Use Magic Device* +28, Swim +11
*Linked to Headband
Possessions amulet of natural armor +5, battledress of the archmagi, belt of physical might +6 (con and dex), blessed book, eye patch of see invisibility, headband of mental superiority +6, ring of negative protection, ring of enduring arcana[sup]CM[/sup], spell component pouch, focuses for prepared spells
Spellbook Beyond these and her prepared spells, which are stored in her Blessed Book, Tarina has access to virtually any spell one could imagine through her mentor's collection.
Active Spells (Sp) Tarina typically maintains the following spells active on her person, cast each morning: anticipate teleport, arcane sight, darkvision, endure elements, false life, heart of fire, heart of water, and overland flight. Arcane sight is persisted by expending a 6th level beguiler spell and a use of augmented metamagic. These spells and uses have already been struck from her spells per day and spells prepared. Each lasts at least 24 hours and the effects of each have already been averaged into her statblock above. They are all active at caster level 27th (DC 42 for dispelling purposes).
Contingency (Sp) Tarina maintains an active contingency set to activate a resilient sphere when she takes 30 or more points of damage in a single attack. The caster level for both effects is 27th, but is treated as DC 42 for dispelling purposes.
Notes
1. Ultimate Magus single levels were split with 1 for wizard and 3 for Beguiler.
2. Dexterity (+4), Constitution (+4), Intelligence (+5), and Charisma (+4) all increased by tomes.
3. Starting ability scores were 8, 12, 12, 18, 12, 12 (0, 4, 4, 16, 4, 4)
4. Archmage bonuses all went to wizard levels and two wizard levels were added after Ultimate Magus was finished.
5. Casts spells as a 18th level wizard and 12th level Beguiler.
6. Assumed 1 full level of spellcasting and 1 half at epic levels. No bonus feat.
Sources
Ultimate Magus and Ring of Enduring Arcana are from Complete Mage.
Beguiler, many Beguiler spells, and Arcane Thesis are from the Players Handbook II.
Chain Spell, Persistant Spell, Practiced Spelcaster, and Split Ray are from Complete Arcane.
Spending
137,000 x2 (Tome of Int and Cha +5)
110,000 x2 (Tomes of Con and Dex +4)
200,000 Battledress of the Archmagi (Per Vest - +8 armor, +5 resistance to saving throws, recover three spells of up to 9th level already cast as swift action, +2 vs. SR, can expend spell slot as swift action to heal 5x spell level)
36,000 Ring of Negative Protection (immune to negative energy and negative levels)
50,000 Amulet of Natural Armor
6,000 Ring of Enduring Arcana (+4 to caster level vs. dispelling)
144,000 Headband of Mental Superiority
90,000 Belt of Physical Might
63,000 wands
2,300 Bracer of Arcane Freedom (2/day cast spell without somatic component)
38,300 Runestaff (expend spell slow to power each of the following 1/day - cone of cold, continual flame, fireball, globe of invulnerability, hold monster, levitate, lightning bolt, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, wall of force [in a 5ft.-foot-radius hemisphere around the wielder only]. +2 luck bonus to ac and saves, acts as +2/masterwork quarterstaff. Expend spell slot as swift action to double melee damage).
12,000 See Invisibility Item
10,000 blessed book
1,150,500 Total
1,200,000 Allowed
I don't agree with you Ogre about practiced spellcaster. I also found that it was the only way to make the class work for me in practice - and I'm currently planing one at 22nd level.
Your talk of metamagic fails to take into account the limitations on the ability, and your comparison at 15th level is somewhat disingenuous given the much more explicit limits on the metamagic application at lower levels in the PrC.
At lower levels the caster level penalty is 2 levels, same as what the Eldritch Knight pays and the two classes have a lot more synergy than the Fighter and Wizard. At Mid levels the penalty is 3 levels, similar to the Arcane Trickster or the Mystic Theurge but again with a lot more synergy between the classes and Ultimate Magus is able to empower or maximize 3rd level spells. At 8th level the class is 4 levels behind and can quicken any spell 4th level and lower. Seems a pretty solid deal at any level to me.
Under pathfinder it's even better because the wizard gets to benefit from the sorcerers arcana.
Most likely everyone in your group has similar builds and your GM lets it fly so why not. Have a ball.