I am jumping in this late and I can appreciate all the discussion about Warforged, but I guess my opinion is that their name really tells you what they were created for, making war. I would probably go with a +2CON, +2WIS, and -2INT, they are sentient but I have always felt they were made with one purpose in mind, the classes they choose help define how they accomplish those goals not their stat modifiers. Again my 2 cents.I agree with you there. But why the boost to Wis and not Int? I would have thought that you'd want them bright enough to think tactically, but not be inclined to refuse orders.
Wisdom covers your senses, being alert, I think that that makes more sense on the "grunt" level than having a whole of tacticians running around the battlefield. Wisdom also covers profession, soldier, if need be any tactics that are needed can be covered under this...again my 2 cents.
Per the argument about making the stats an +2 to match the PF standard being too powerful, remember, I also (for my version) removed the fortification. And, also remember, they would under PF be vulnerable to sneak attack (which they weren't as living constructs in 3.5). The fortification was for crits, not sneaks, as they were immune to sneak.
So, considering that the PF races are +1 3.5 equivalents, and the WF as I converted it was losing 2 major racial features (immunity to sneak attack and fortification) I believe bumping them up to a +2 overall was not uncalled for, nor unbalanced.
Wisdom covers your senses, being alert, I think that that makes more sense on the "grunt" level than having a whole of tacticians running around the battlefield. Wisdom also covers profession, soldier, if need be any tactics that are needed can be covered under this...again my 2 cents.
Actually I would have said that the number of individuals watching in a unit of soldiers would compensate for that adequately - it's like the evolution question of monkeys in groups: monkeys are herbivores and are therefore vulnerable to predators, but they need their gaze focussed forward rather than around to look for danger, so they congregate in groups in order to watch each other's backs.
But yes, that is a good point regarding tactics, although personally I would have made it a knowledge skill.
Per the argument about making the stats an +2 to match the PF standard being too powerful, remember, I also (for my version) removed the fortification. And, also remember, they would under PF be vulnerable to sneak attack (which they weren't as living constructs in 3.5). The fortification was for crits, not sneaks, as they were immune to sneak.
If they were immune to sneak attacks they wouldn't need fortification - living constructs were NOT immune to sneak attacks and critical hits. Only if they took some levels in WarJug did they gain that sort of immunity.
To match the PF standard as far as stats go you just want to add a net +2 to stats, and if you have multiple bonuses, have one to physical and one to mental. For the warforged you'd just want to remove one of the two negatives and leave it at that.
Wisdom covers your senses, being alert, I think that that makes more sense on the "grunt" level than having a whole of tacticians running around the battlefield. Wisdom also covers profession, soldier, if need be any tactics that are needed can be covered under this...again my 2 cents.Actually I would have said that the number of individuals watching in a unit of soldiers would compensate for that adequately - it's like the evolution question of monkeys in groups: monkeys are herbivores and are therefore vulnerable to predators, but they need their gaze focussed forward rather than around to look for danger, so they congregate in groups in order to watch each other's backs.
But yes, that is a good point regarding tactics, although personally I would have made it a knowledge skill.
I can see where your going...don't agree but understand the point, I hate adding knowledge skills, but that's just me!
Am I the only one that thinks that Warforged should have had the Plant type instead of Construct?
Am I the only one that thinks that Warforged should have had the Plant type instead of Construct?
Because of livewood? That's an intriguing possibility, but unlike plants warforged don't grow and don't heal, so I would keep them as constructs myself. Maybe those with bronzewood plating might qualify, but then if they were plants they would need sustenance in the form of sunlight or some other source, as plants do (OK, some grow underground and D&D counts fungoids as plants, so compost could feed them, but they would have to stand around a lot and put down roots of some sort).
Mind you, there is an interesting variation on that idea in Secrets of Xendrick for warforged who stay out too long in the jungle ... they tend to get a bit ... leafy ...
Am I the only one that thinks that Warforged should have had the Plant type instead of Construct?
Well, let's see... they have a Constitution score, they are made of vines and wooden parts - perhaps they even have something similar to sap circulating in thier fibres... Their inner structure is decidedly organic (the plates that constitute their exoskeletons are almost all inorganic, though).
However, being created in Forges, they are decidedly man-made (or perhaps Giant-made... or, most probably, Quori-made...), and so they fit better under the Construct definition. Plus, they do not reproduce (except via Forges).
Otherwise, a Flesh Golem could be an Undead instead than a Construct (being composed of dead bodies).
LONG RANT ABOUT EBERRON's WARFORGED CONSTRUCT NATURE:
Originally, in the Eberron Campaign Setting, the prototype of the race were the Quorcraft Warforged; it is hinted (in scraps and bits throughout the Secrets of Xen'Drik book, especially from the description of the Artifact Docent Shira) that they were vessels made for hosting - through their Docent devices - the fleeting Quori spirits which were landed on Xen'Drik trying to escape the fate of their dying Quor-Tarai (the entity that substains the entire Quori culture and, when coming to the end of its lifespan, implodes and generate a new Quor-Tarai and a new Quori race). The Quor-Tarai of the current timeline (where the ECS is set) is il-Lashtavar, the Dreaming Dark (and this is the reason why almost all Quori spirits are evil), but nothing is known of the previous Quor-Tarai (that of the Xen'Drik invasion), which could even possibly had been a benign entity whose children were trying merely to survive AND NOT INVADING EBERRON.
However, long story short, the original prototype Warforged were probabily 'mechs' built to host the Quori; Giants took their magi-technology and went through a different path, adding in the process of creations the various Creation Patterns which gave their Warforged an automaton mind (it's true, however, that even basic QuorForged had an automaton mind without their docent - the complete truth perhaps will never be revealed...). How the current Warforged came to be is a process not even Merrix d'Cannith was able to predict - he basically used a modified version of the Giant's 'Xulo Pattern' as a basis, which ended giving the current Warforged a 'soul' (the whole WOTC Forgotten Forge Adventure Path explains better than me the whole story of the Xulo Pattern). Now, where these souls actually come from... the campaign itself never told it. My personal bet/interpretation is that those are the souls of Quori spirits which are somehow dragged into bodies which were basically made for hosting them - or, as I named my Eberron Campaign which sadly never came to its conclusion, 'Do Warforged Dream of Quori Sheep ?' :D
Anyway, intriguing idea, but IMHO too far from the effective qualities of the 'Forged (and the concept behind the race in the Eberron campaing).
My point is that Warforged are made, not born, so there is no such thing as a "racial standard" or "general tendency" for them. At all. Elves, dwarves and shifters all have genetics (or whatever passes for genetics in a world like D&D) that create these tendencies, but warforged are man-made and are thus built to spec. By this, I mean that House Cannith doesn't create a Fighter Model and then retrofit it to the Rogue Model anymore than Ford tries to turn F-150s into Mustangs. They are simply built differently from the ground up.
No, they used creation forges activated from Schema, the nearest things to mass production that a fantasy world has ever seen. If they were individually crafted for purpose, I could agree but as they were turned out on a production line, I can't. It may be a very advanced production line allowing for some changes but it's still a production line.
Schema designed and developed by House Cannith over the course of the Last War, that is. As shown by the existence of the Warforged Titan, warforged have been produced differently. The flavor text and novels of Eberron have often mentioned various 'models' of warforged built for specific tasks, too. I am not disputing that the vast majority of warforged were +2CON/-2CHA Fighters (tough and obedient), but when the time came to produce a Ranger, Sorcerer or Cleric, Cannith could have, and would have, forged them differently from variant schema designs as opposed to retrofitting a pure combat model.
Of course that's just my point of view, but I feel that as they had a net -2 to their stats before Pathfinder, and a reduced Wisdom and Charisma were part of that, some elements of that should remain. In my idea of an upgrade I decided that they should have a net +0, and that the most logical stats they should be strong in as living constructs should be strength and constitution, not just constitution, so I kept the penalties to wisdom and charisma. However, this is just my interpretation.
I accept that for what it is, and agree in principle (my version is also a net +0), I just disagree with the implementation. My version of the warforged, with a variable +2/-2, retains the net -2 in comparison to most other races (notably humans and their kin) that they had in the ECS, but it also captures what I see as their inherent capacity for customization. Pathfinder's new concept of a variable stat bonus simply fits my vision of the Warforged better than the original fixed stat array.
Also, it doesn't help that I strongly dislike the use of -2 CHA as a short-hand for social ineptitude in any race, not just warforged. As the basis for spontaneous arcane casting, channel energy, paladin abilities, Use Magic Device and so on, CHA is useful for far more than just social skills.
You might not like it, but that's the way everyone plays it. I'm not wild about it either, but that's the way the game is. Charisma is a in part rating for the extent to which we impose our personality on others, and in part a rating of our social aptitude.
*blink* Forgive me if this sounds mean, but we're discussing a way to house rule the Eberron races into the Pathfinder system and you think it actually matters how "everyone plays it"? I am not concerned about this, to say the least. If I were, I'd never house rule anything.
* Performs Thread Necromancy*
I don't get the psionics thing that the OP had. But, I am a psionics DM and this is my take on the Kalashtar.
* +2 to any Ability. Kalashtar are humans that have a spiritual entity inside them. It is also to represent their varied nature, as they are as varied as Half-Elves and Half-orcs.
* Medium sized.
* Base speed is 30 ft.
* +2 bonus on saving throws vs. mind affecting spells and abilities.
* +2 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks.
* +2 racial bonus to Disguise checks made to impersonate humans. Kalashtar can pass as humans, but have a harder time passing as Half-Elves and Half-Orcs.
* Kalashtar sleep but they do not dream (in Eberron).
* Naturally Psionic. This is usually translated as 1 extra power point per character level. If you don't use the Expanded Psionics Handbook or Psionics UNLEASHED!, you can ignore this feature and use just the +2 bonus on saving throws vs. mind affecting spells and abilities above.
* Psi-Like Abilities: Kalashtar may perform a Mindlink once per a day. This ability is described in the Eberron Campaign Setting as well as Races of Eberron. If you have neither, change this feature to the ability to cast Whispering Wind once per a day as a sorcerer at half the Kalashtar's level.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Quor (or Celestial). Like Half-Elves, Kalashtar with high intelligence scores may speak any language they wish.
For Changlings I went with: +2 any stat.
May spend an action point to shuffle 2 points around between the physical stats.
Alter Self ability no longer grants attribute bonuses.
For warforged stats, I agree that they are made, but there are a few things that can be assumed about them as part of basic construction. My adjustments:
+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
1) The Con because they are tougher by design & materials.
2) The Wis & Cha penalties because they are lacking in social skills & understanding.
3) Now add to this, I gave then an additional +2 to any stat (except Con) to represent design intent for that particular model.
The rest of the racial stuff can be campaign preferences. I used the Race Design Beta to balance this out. I had to make some assumption about point cost based on similar abilities, but it is pretty close to the original. Not exact, but close enough for fun.
Haven't read through all of it, just skimmed, but to keep in line with things... For changelings I would do Medium humanoid shapechanger, but that's just me )
"Do Warforged Dream of Quori Sheep?" LMAO :) Blade Runner :)