Character idea… Need some help.
So a bunch of my friends are planning on starting pathfinder at Dragon*Con… we had a conversation on who will fill what roles (we like forming teams, seeing we almost always show up at cons as 2 or three tables with one or two seats per table open for pick-up players)
I had shared my wish to play a swashbuckler type; everyone automatically said “oh you are playing the rouge/duelist." I responded by saying “not necessarily, swashbuckling is an attitude not a class my friend”
So I took the cleric, not realizing that we started with only 20 points to build our characters… should have done some research before I opened by fat mouth.
Looking at a Human Cleric of Cayden Cailean (God of freedom, ale, wine, bravery) taking the Charm and Travel domains. I was shooting for a Dex based melee cleric (good Dex and high Wis, weapon fen as my bonus feet and selective channeling as my other) with a good charisma... using a Rapier (the god's weapon) a shield, and a chain shirt (fitted to look like a chain an leather doublet)
But that’s when I hit a wall... with a 20 point buy I can’t build a competent Dex based melee cleric..
Str: 10, Dex: 14, Con: 14, Wis: 16, Int: 10, Cha: 14
I was thinking of dropping the Con to 13 and boosting the Intelligence to 12 for extra skill points, or strength, but +1 to damage seems meeningless.
Just worried about my melee potential, it seems rather craptaculer (times I wish there was a feat to get dex to weapon damage.)
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I played in a game with a rather spectacular swashbuckling cleric, I wound up a cleric 6/rogue 3 and the character had insane acrobatics.
You use buff spells to up your damage, so don't worry about strength. If anything go to 10 con and pump that dex higher. If you wind up needing higher HP just take toughness.
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Couple ideas: (add racial bonsues where you wish, probably to Wisdom)
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 14 - this gives you access to combat expertise, which lets you take improved disarm, improved trip and improved feint. This is very swashbuckly. YOu've got good Charisma so you can throw out a good amount of healing, and you could also take selective channelling if you wish to use the channels during battle. You are also close to being able to take power attakc, which will help drive your damage higher.
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 14 - this gives you better hit points. You could switch Strength and Con for damage improvements as well.
Another suggestion is to look at the Strength Domain. It can grant you a temporary enhancement bonus to strength for improved damage in a pinch, and gives you access to bull strength as an early domain spell.
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I am Assuming you are playing 1st level. Those stats aren't to bad really. An interesting exercise, take the 20 point build and build a couple of other characters (fighter, rogue, arcane etc) and compare. I think what you'll find out is that the stat's look poor, because they are lower than you are used to. Everyone will be a bit lower and have to make sacrifices also.
Make sure your charisma is good and just bluff, diplomasize a lot. Get the point across and the rest will come with you.
Just stick to your theme, make sure you can do the basics of your role in the party. If you are the healer make sure you can heal, etc. Remember. You are a swashbuckling cleric not a swashbuckling rogue or fighter. the key is that you are a Swashbuckler though. The rest is all gravy. Oh, and I have a rule in my game. All Swashbucklers must attempt to enter a scene through a stain glassed window at least once in the campaign...And swing on a rope...and fight with a sword in one hand and a mug of something strong in the other...
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Playing a human I assume? That +2 to any stat will help.
Cleric 1
Str 12 (2), Dex 14+2 (5), Con 10, Int 13 (3), Wis 15 (7), Cha 13 (3)
(H) Extra Channel
(1) Weapon Finesse
AC 18 (+4 Chain Shirt, +3 Dex, +1 Light Shield)
+4 Melee (Rapier, 1d6+1/18-20 x2)
Channel Positive Energy 6/Day
Selective Channeling won't be as effective without a higher Cha bonus. As it stands you will only be able to ignore 2 foes in the area of effect so the utility won't be that practical in most circumstances during a fight. Probably best to use the ability to channel heals out of combat in the meantime. If you want to enhance healing I'd suggest grabbing Extra Channel instead for 2 more uses per day. Though for front line healing I'd also consider Combat Casting in order to get those off without losing them or taking an AoO as casting defensively in combat can be a real challenge now for spellcasters.
Shield of Faith (+2 AC) and Divine Favor (+1 Atk/Dmg) will be your staples. Sanctuary will be cool to use as it will let you run around the battlefield without getting hit as long as foes fail their Will saves against as well as get off any healing spells.
Edit: Also consider taking the Liberation Domain instead of the Charm Domain as it provides you with Freedom of Movement ability for greater mobility.
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i agree with brutesquad and with the OP... the idea is to be a swashbuckler, in the case of the cleric it will depend on the combination of domains and spells due to the lack of skills.
the first set of stats that Jess mentions is a pretty good one... if you are human or half elf then the +2 cango either to wis or dex, so you are cool in that area...
a combination of spells to increase your combat ability, your dexterity and your charisma.
You might want to take at elast a level of rogue for the class skills... the cleric is still pretty much crippled in that area, but normally with that intelligence, being human and using the favored class fri skill you will have 5 points per elvel... the rogue class is mostly for the class skills which will give you a nice bonus on a lot of skills...
I DMed a guy who played a swashbuckling cleric in 3.5 several years ago. It was actually a pretty fun character. It's more attitude than mechanics, though. I would still emphasize Wisdom and Charisma, then Dex and Int, and finally, dump Str and Con.....you can always use Divine Favor to help your damage, and you can self-heal to stay in combat if necessary.
It was an unusual group....the leader was a half-orc wizard/barbarian with an infamous battle-wagon and extreme ambition. They also started a casino that was very profitable.
One thing to remember is that the cost increases are now after the odd stats, instead of even, so you get more bang for your point going odd (as counter as this is to start with).
The other important thing to remember is you can't go below 1 skill point per level, and that's *before* race and favored class. So:
Str: 10, Dex: 17, Con: 14, Int: 7, Wis: 15, Cha: 14
Still 3 skill points per level (instead of 4), 1 better attack/AC/Reflex, 1 lower DC (I'd imagine mostly buffing spells anyhow)
Looking ahead, a 4th level bump to Dex puts you nicely ahead, and an 8th level bump to Wisdom covers spell casting requirements through 12th level.
Do remember that Weapon Finesse gives shield armor check penalty to attack rolls. You might want to go without until you get a masterwork one.
Another set to consider:
Str: 12, Dex: 18, Con: 12, Int: 8, Wis: 14, Cha: 13
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dumping intelligence is not the smartest thing for the swashbuckling cleric... why?
besides the normal notions and skills he would use... at leas Climb & Acrobatics come in hand... besides the always necesary knowledge: religion and surely spellcraft... ahh no... concentration rules now are a diferent mechanic... ok
still 3 skill points would give little maneuverabilty... specially if he wants the charismatic part of shashbuckling, like bluff and diplomacy
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Thisi is what I'm doing with my next PC too. Remember your Racial Ability Score bonus. Pick one of the human blooded races, and drop it on Dex. It might be too expensive for your build, but I'm going to dip rogue, too. The class skills will help, and a single Sneak Attack die will make a difference in melee. As long as you come through with the heals, I'm sure the rest of the group will let you behave just about any way you want.
Another round with the blessings Cayden Caylean!
Steven
WOW
Thanks for all the help :o)
@Jess Door
I like your stat setup, and originally I was thinking of taking improved disarm and the like, but the way CMB & CMD work out, I just don’t see it working unless you are spec’d for it… now I may be reading it wrong, but the fact that the defender gets Strength & Dexterity bonuses to their CMD means that I would need a high Dex as well as the right feats, and the right weapon (spiked chain) to have any good chance of pulling off a special manuver.
@Brutesquad07
As soon as I saw we had 20 points I expected my stats to be a bit lower then what I’m use too, but as a caster I worry about my save DC.
I don’t know if the monsters/mobs in pathfinder have been scaled back to take the lower stats into account, are NPCs built with the same point system?
I remember in LG if you didn’t have a 16+ in your casting stat your enemies would make their saves almost all the time. (Hell it got so bad my Mystic had to take Spell Focus in two schools)
And don’t worry, if you ever GM my table... I rock the swash and slam the buckle… I played a swashbuckler in LC days (Chillhiadrin Hawkwinter) who would pull some of the craziest “you just did what??” moments that left the table laughing or shaking their heads as they wounded just how much longer my luck would last.
@Liquidsabre
I also share your concern that the charisma modifier of 2 would not be enough for selective channeling, but I think good positioning and the feat combined can make the +2 work for me, besides if I really need exclude more than two targets and I have a round to set it up, I can always cast Eagles Spender and exclude 4 targets.
Combat casting is definitely on the list of feats to take.
I was looking at the Liberation domain, but there is something about casting charm person as a swift action that is just yummy…. With the proper set up and the 1/hr per level duration, it’s one of the most powerful of the domain powers. Want to get into area X, well follow a guard on his way home and have a small “talk” with him (swift cast charm person).
@Majuba
Playing dumb swashbucklers is a pet peeve of mine... how can you be witty when you say "uhhhh" every other sentence :oP
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WOW
Thanks for all the help :o)@Jess Door
I like your stat setup, and originally I was thinking of taking improved disarm and the like, but the way CMB & CMD work out, I just don’t see it working unless you are spec’d for it… now I may be reading it wrong, but the fact that the defender gets Strength & Dexterity bonuses to their CMD means that I would need a high Dex as well as the right feats, and the right weapon (spiked chain) to have any good chance of pulling off a special manuver.
It's totally up to you. I had my cleric (with the second set of stats) try an unfeated bull rush - our positioning was bad and I needed to shove the bad guy back a step badly - and managed to pull it off, even though I took an attack of opportunity. There's a feat that lets you ADD your dex to your cmb, and another that lets you use you dex in place of strength on your cmb. Those may be worth looking into. But only if you want to do that sort of thing - it gets feat intensive!
I remember in LG if you didn’t have a 16+ in your casting stat your enemies would make their saves almost all the time. (Hell it got so bad my Mystic had to take Spell Focus in two schools)
It really depends on what you're casting. My cleric casts buffs on the party and heals. I'm not worried about Save DCs, therefore. It sound slike you want to charm, so just get spell focus in enchantment, and let your wisdom lag a little.
@Liquidsabre
I also share your concern that the charisma modifier of 2 would not be enough for selective channeling, but I think good positioning and the feat combined can make the +2 work for me, besides if I really need exclude more than two targets and I have a round to set it up, I can always cast Eagles Spender and exclude 4 targets.
You only need to exclude enemies that have taken damage. It's usually better to concentrate damage on limited targets to take them down quickly - this means you only need to exclude a couple targets at a time. I'd say the 14 is pretty necessary for the character type if you can afford it - but 16 gets pretty expensive given all the other things you need to build up.
You only need to exclude enemies that have taken damage. It's usually better to concentrate damage on limited targets to take them down quickly - this means you only need to exclude a...
LOL you know I didint think about that!
As an aside..
I was looking over my Pathfinder PDF under the character advacment chart... the Ability Boost stays the same as 3.5 right? +2 to any one stat. (seems they forgot to define what "ability score" on Chart 3-1 stands for, which would be a bit confusing for people who never played 3.5)
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 14
I like this stat set myself.
Where you put the +2 Human bonus depends on WHAT you really want to be doing.
STR - I wouldn't put the bonus here. I would do as others have suggested and take a few levels(1-3) of Rogue to compensate for low-end damage later levels.
DEX - I would likely put it here. If you plan on staying in Light Armor and using Weapon Finesse, more than casting spells. Also one higher AC.
WIS - If you plan on casting spells that require saves a lot, such as Command & Hold Person. Also a bonus 3rd level spell when you're capable.
CHA - If you want slightly more bang for your buck out of Channel Energy. One higher DC, One extra time a day.
The biggest problem you're going to have will be BAB, or the lack thereof after level 5. Cleric/Rogue multi-class will be painful on your Attack Bonus. Weapon Focus and a Masterwork Weapon will put a band-aid on it for a short period of time. Feat suggestions: Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, (at 3rd)Dodge OR Selective Channeling
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I remember in LG if you didn’t have a 16+ in your casting stat your enemies would make their saves almost all the time. (Hell it got so bad my Mystic had to take Spell Focus in two schools)
Yeah, but if your going all swashbucklery focus your spells on buffs and heals, then you don't have to worry about save DCs and you can just have a wisdom high enough to cast the level of spell you need.
Maybe use the Cloistered Cleric option from Unearthed Arcana to get lots of bonus skill points....at the loss of the medium armor you probably wouldn't be wearing anyways. But I think there is also a loss of BAB and HD too. Hmm...
Maybe use the Cloistered Cleric option from Unearthed Arcana to get lots of bonus skill points....at the loss of the medium armor you probably wouldn't be wearing anyways. But I think there is also a loss of BAB and HD too. Hmm...
Ya but i plan on playing this character in the Pathfiner Socity campaign, so it's not an option (god I wish it was...)
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Maybe use the Cloistered Cleric option from Unearthed Arcana to get lots of bonus skill points....at the loss of the medium armor you probably wouldn't be wearing anyways. But I think there is also a loss of BAB and HD too. Hmm...Ya but i plan on playing this character in the Pathfiner Socity campaign, so it's not an option (god I wish it was...)
If you want combat expertise, I'd go with 13 intelligence. If you're not planning on pursuing combat expertise, I'd put the 12 in intelligence and a 13 in strength - this gives you access to power attack, which will help up your damage once you buff your attack a bit with spells or abilities.
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Maybe use the Cloistered Cleric option from Unearthed Arcana to get lots of bonus skill points....at the loss of the medium armor you probably wouldn't be wearing anyways. But I think there is also a loss of BAB and HD too. Hmm...
not good option for swashbucking cleric... not if he is interested in some combat...
anyway... howI hate the clostered cleric and the devoted bard....
Yeah, but if your going all swashbucklery focus your spells on buffs and heals, then you don't have to worry about save DCs and you can just have a wisdom high enough to cast the level of spell you need.
I remember in LG if you didn’t have a 16+ in your casting stat your enemies would make their saves almost all the time. (Hell it got so bad my Mystic had to take Spell Focus in two schools)
True...
I think I will swap out the charm domain for the strength domain, the domain powers kind of suck seeing it takes a standerd action to use it, and it lasts only one round. its 8th level ability is not all that eather. but all the spells are buff spells so it may be a better fit.
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True...I think I will swap out the charm domain for the strength domain, the domain powers kind of suck seeing it takes a standerd action to use it, and it lasts only one round. its 8th level ability is not all that eather. but all the spells are buff spells so it may be a better fit.
Yeah, the spells are incredibly useful for a fighting cleric. The strength is less so - it's extremely situational. BUT - it's a standard action, but it's not a spell, so if you're hiding in a corner about to attack someone, you could give that to yourself the round before you attack from stealth - no spell to incant.
I used it last week when only the paladin had a weapon that could hurt our enemy effectively - I slapped it on him every round to stack with his smite bonuses to attack and damage.
Ok
So I think this is the way I'm going to go
Human Cleric (Cayden Cailean)
Str: 10, Dex: 16, Con: 10, Int: 14, Wis: 14, Cha: 14 (stat boost @ 4th:Dex, 8th: Wis)
Skills (class +2, int +2, human +1, favored class +1)
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Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Linguistics, Spellcraft
Character Traits
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Birthmark (I was thinking the holy symbol over his right eye, works as a holy focus and gain a +2 vs Charm Compulsion spells.
Armor Expert (-1 to armor check penalty)
Feats
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1st Level Weapon Finesse, Selective Channeling
3rd level Weapon Focus
5th level Extra Channel
7th level Vital Strike
9th level Improved Critical: Rapier
11th level Quicken Spell
Now I may yet start with 1 level of rogue, go cleric, then rogue again…
so what do you all think?
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so what do you all think?
The stat boosts at 4th and 8th level are 1 point each. I would put them both in the same stat if you're starting out with all even numbers. More bang for your buck.
You've got one more skill coming. Knowledge can be useful. Heal is nice for a cleric to have. As a Cleric of Cayden Cailean, I actually took Craft Alchemy for brewing, and Brew Potion. It's been fun so far!
9th Level Improved Critical: You need a Base Attack Bonus of at least +8 to take that feat. You won't have that as a straight cleric until at least level 11. Later if you multiclass with rogue for less than 4 levels.
If you're trying to choose between cleric or rogue first level, I'd go with cleric in most cases. Getting the channelled healing right off the bat will help your group's survivability greatly!
If you aren't set in stone on rapier, I'd suggest going for scimitar.
There's a great feat for it, called Dervish Dance that lets you use dexterity for attack and damage with scimitars. Take this and you can dump strength almost completely.
If you aren't set in stone on rapier, I'd suggest going for scimitar.
There's a great feat for it, called Dervish Dance that lets you use dexterity for attack and damage with scimitars. Take this and you can dump strength almost completely.
Now thats an idea.. but
I would need to use another feat to pick up the Scimitar as a cleric...
but thats something I didint think of... I'm going to have to look that up
so what do you all think?The stat boosts at 4th and 8th level are 1 point each. I would put them both in the same stat if you're starting out with all even numbers. More bang for your buck.
Good point for some reasion I was under the impresion it was a +2 to any one stat... no idea where the hell that poped into my head.
I will revise the character today and see what I come up with.
Or use the Mug as a buckler!A cleric of Cayden Cailean should totally get a circumstance bonus to pulling that off! :D...and fight with a sword in one hand and a mug of something strong in the other...
Or just use a steel mug as a weapon with Catch-off-Guard. Improvised Weapon Mastery would increase the damage and threat range of your mug.
Just make sure to curse your enemies for spilling your drink!
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If you aren't set in stone on rapier, I'd suggest going for scimitar.
There's a great feat for it, called Dervish Dance that lets you use dexterity for attack and damage with scimitars. Take this and you can dump strength almost completely.
Now thats an idea.. but
I would need to use another feat to pick up the Scimitar as a cleric...
but thats something I didint think of... I'm going to have to look that up
Serenrae has Scimitar as her favored weapon. It would mean giving up Cayden Cailean as your clerics god, which I would find sad, given the character concept. The domains will be a little less swashbuckler worthy as well. But it saves you a feat to get the scimitar.
Serenrae has Scimitar as her favored weapon. It would mean giving up Cayden Cailean as your clerics god, which I would find sad, given the character concept. The domains will be a little less swashbuckler worthy as well. But it saves you a feat to get the scimitar.If you aren't set in stone on rapier, I'd suggest going for scimitar.
There's a great feat for it, called Dervish Dance that lets you use dexterity for attack and damage with scimitars. Take this and you can dump strength almost completely.
Now thats an idea.. but
I would need to use another feat to pick up the Scimitar as a cleric...
but thats something I didint think of... I'm going to have to look that up
Also I just looked up the feat (paid for the PDF)
you can't use a shield with Dervish Dance, which is going to kill my AC... at higher levels a shield will give you +4 or +5 to AC.. (Magic Vestment ftw)
Or use the Mug as a buckler!A cleric of Cayden Cailean should totally get a circumstance bonus to pulling that off! :D...and fight with a sword in one hand and a mug of something strong in the other...
Or just use a steel mug as a weapon with Catch-off-Guard. Improvised Weapon Mastery would increase the damage and threat range of your mug.
Just make sure to curse your enemies for spilling your drink!
if the system gave more feats ya....
the living campaign cap's at 12th level, so all i get are 5 feats (6 if you are human)
I kind of wish pathfinder would have split the feats, lesser & greater or something like that.... lesser feats: unarmed combat,Improvised Weapons, skill focus,and RP flavored feats greater feats: metamagic, all the combat feat trees, Improvised Weapon Mastery, crafting feats, channeling feats. you get a lesser feat every even level and a greater feat every odd....
Back in the LC days my duelist picked up unarmed combat, just in case I was in a bar room brawl.... I think i used the feat once... hell we bumped into this issue in Living Arcanis, we wrote up a ton of RP feats that people didint take them because you only get so many feats.
Ok so after some review....
Str 10 (1), Dex 14 [16] (5), Con 11 (1), Int 12 (2), Wis 15 (7), Cha 14 (5)
With statboost #1 to Wis & #2 to Con
Rogue levels are still up in the air
*just chiming in here*
My GM allowed my first level priest of Cayden Calien to use his holy symbol as a buckler. How sweet is that!? Pretty sweet, its not anything great stat-wise, but I didn't really want anything like that. Just replace my buckler with a big stein, and let me keep playing baby!
>WBM
If i can get away with it... I will...
we will see at dragon*con this weekend....
*just chiming in here*
My GM allowed my first level priest of Cayden Calien to use his holy symbol as a buckler. How sweet is that!? Pretty sweet, its not anything great stat-wise, but I didn't really want anything like that. Just replace my buckler with a big stein, and let me keep playing baby!
>WBM
If i can get away with it... I will...
we will see at dragon*con this weekend....
After a LOT of reading.. I'm going to just give up on the concept...
Seeing this I plan on playing PFS (which expects/demands optimized characters) I may end up being more of a asset to the rest of the table if I focused on a more common iconic template.
I'm going to keep the same charactrer in general, but I may just focus on beingt a pure caster or swap classes..
I was thinking fighter/cleric but without a way to boost your caster level, you kind of suck. Still playing arround with it...
*just chiming in here*
My GM allowed my first level priest of Cayden Calien to use his holy symbol as a buckler. How sweet is that!? Pretty sweet, its not anything great stat-wise, but I didn't really want anything like that. Just replace my buckler with a big stein, and let me keep playing baby!
>WBM
If i can get away with it... I will...
we will see at dragon*con this weekend....
After a LOT of reading.. I'm going to just give up on the concept...
Seeing this I plan on playing PFS (which expects/demands optimized characters) I may end up being more of a asset to the rest of the table if I focused on a more common iconic template.
I'm going to keep the same charactrer in general, but I may just focus on beingt a pure caster or swap classes..
I was thinking fighter/cleric but without a way to boost your caster level, you kind of suck. Still playing arround with it...
I don't think optimized is the word your looking for...its effective. If PFS was limited to people who could optimize (or had optimal builds at least) it would rapidly implode. And any game tends to favor effective characters, but thats just survivalism at work.
*just chiming in here*
My GM allowed my first level priest of Cayden Calien to use his holy symbol as a buckler. How sweet is that!? Pretty sweet, its not anything great stat-wise, but I didn't really want anything like that. Just replace my buckler with a big stein, and let me keep playing baby!
>WBM
If i can get away with it... I will...
we will see at dragon*con this weekend....
After a LOT of reading.. I'm going to just give up on the concept...
Seeing this I plan on playing PFS (which expects/demands optimized characters) I may end up being more of a asset to the rest of the table if I focused on a more common iconic template.
I'm going to keep the same charactrer in general, but I may just focus on beingt a pure caster or swap classes..
I was thinking fighter/cleric but without a way to boost your caster level, you kind of suck. Still playing arround with it...
If you want a holy swashbuckler you could go Paladin.
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Indeed, do come back to the fold. I'f all my LG and PFS CP's were optimized, I'd have given up long ago. My first swashbuckler was pretty much AoO bait. Not what I intended, but it got the Fighters and Barbs in where they needed to be very often.
I'm going to do something very much like this myself.
If you want a holy swashbuckler you could go Paladin.
Cayden Calien?
Paladin?
::boggle::
If they had made the Paladen "Any Good" then ya... maybe..
But lawful?
If you want a holy swashbuckler you could go Paladin.Cayden Calien?
Paladin?
::boggle::
If they had made the Paladen "Any Good" then ya... maybe..
But lawful?
Sorry missed the choice of gods, honestly I don't know the Pathfinde god list all that well. I use Greyhawk Gods more often then not.
I still think a cleric built to be defensive in his swashbuckling could still be made.
I must say, my friend, that giving up on the idea seems most regrettable. Is there no chance for some additional... consideration?
I don't know...
I have been racking my head on the character all night... Read the PFB like 4 times over and read a lot of the spells (not all... I have a daughter that demands a lot of attention) What I had in mind was a “holy warrior” but thanks to the Paladin being lawful good only, it limited my choice to the cleric.
And thus, I will end up being a sub-par caster/melee combatant… yes I would be in the good fight, but really what am I doing there? What am I contributing to the party? My melee attacks will be laughable (AhhhhAh! Take 1d6+1 of blessed steel!!) My HP, savd DC's, and saves will suffer (I have to spread my stat love around too much) and I will not be as knowledgeable as a “stranded” cleric (seeing I need to drop skills in Acrobatics and Bluff to pull off the character concept)
So the question became… Was why risk the table losing their cleric when I can make a MUCH more effective character that stays in the back and casts his spells with better efficiency?
It’s clear that the designers see the cleric as more of a caster/support class… most of the melee buffing spells no longer stack, thus limiting the overall effectiveness of the “melee combat cleric” also coupled with the increased difficulty to combat casting (in essence requiring me to take the combat casting feat) really works against the character concept on many levels.
As someone put it I was “creating a character totally counter to the strengths of the class”
Why weaken the class when I can just focus on two stats (wisdom and charisma) and make the best cleric possible? The Swashbuckling Cleric It sounds like a hella-fun character to play, but it’s a “team sport” and I should look at what I bring to the table… other then my witty commentary.
If you want a holy swashbuckler you could go Paladin.Cayden Calien?
Paladin?
Sure! - dedicated to his portfolio of "FREEDOM!"
But honestly, I'd rather have your cleric swashbuckler at my table (playing *or* DM'ing) than any luke-warm 'iconic'. Play it! The most effective clerics I've seen are the ones on the front lines, dealing damage early, and in the thick of it to heal when needed.
But honestly, I'd rather have your cleric swashbuckler at my table (playing *or* DM'ing) than any luke-warm 'iconic'. Play it! The most effective clerics I've seen are the ones on the front lines, dealing damage early, and in the thick of it to heal when needed.
I'm going to give the build one more shot today at lunch and see what I can come up with...
But I'm not optimistic... the last thing I want to be at any Pathfinder Society table is a liability.
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Well, I don't run Society games, but if you were to put that character on one of my tables I would be very pleased. I find interesting far more important than "effective". Effective characters tend to not be interesting and then don't get played much after a while. Interesting characters find ways to be effective.
But honestly, I'd rather have your cleric swashbuckler at my table (playing *or* DM'ing) than any luke-warm 'iconic'. Play it! The most effective clerics I've seen are the ones on the front lines, dealing damage early, and in the thick of it to heal when needed.I'm going to give the build one more shot today at lunch and see what I can come up with...
But I'm not optimistic... the last thing I want to be at any Pathfinder Society table is a liability.
Have you thought about using combat expertise, dodge, mobility and shield profs for some serious defenses through speed and skill. Seems very swashbuckler to me and combined with a chain shirt should give you more then enough safety to cast in melee as needed.
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But in reality AC is not the problem… melee damage potential is the issue.
S 10 (1)
D 14 [16] (5)
C 11 (1)
I 12 (2)
W 15 (7)
Ch 14 (5)
Skills 5* (class +2, Intelligence +1, human +1, favored class +1)
* Jess Door mentioned that I get one more skill… but I don’t know from were
Acrobatics
Diplomacy
Sense Motive
Linguistics
Spellcraft
Level / Feats
1 / Weapon Finesse, Selective Channeling (put that 14 cha to good use)
3 / Weapon Focus
5 / Power Attack
7 / Vital Strike
8 / Combat Casting
11 / Improved Critical: Rapier
Character Traits
Birthmark
Armor Expert
I can swap the Dexterity and Wisdom to give my spells some extra Oomph at lower levels… But as a Dex based fighting cleric take a slap in the fact to my melee damage. An earth shattering d6! If I focus on Strength instead of dexterity I save myself a feat and gain a +3 to hit and damage, but my AC is “the suck”.
I just look at the above character and there is nothing “Amazing” about the build at all…
Now maybe there is a feat combination I just don’t see….
Some people say I should take two levels of rogue but I lose d6 to my channel, an entire level of spells, and LOSE +1 to my BAB in the process.
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I won't recommend Power attack... your character already lacks bonuses on hitting... its good for a fighter, but for a cleric its really a no no... t would only work when you had very low level enemies.. and I do believe you requiere Str 13...
I would go for anythign that enchance my ability with the sword using agility. Combat Expertise, Combat Reflex or Agile Maneuvers sound like better options for THIS kind of character... or ... Improved Disarm... why? half of the swashbucklers of movies either 1st disarm their enemeis and force them to surrender, or disarme and kill them... disarm is a great method of leaving enemies defenseless AND its very very cinematic and swashbuckling
try to get bluff (don't take too many languages... you don't have the skills, take it once or twice but enfatice in your concept, bluff with your charisma will let you pass where other won't by arms... AND) it would be good for feints... there is a feat that lets you use your faints as move actions and not standard ones... that will let you have a better chance of hitting, and would be very close to the character concept...
Jess said you had one more skill point because she considered your character having Int 14
focus the spellcasting in buffing you and your group: magic weapon, bless, shield of faith, Divine Favor, all of those a re great options for a shwashbuckler because they focus his abilities where he wants to be... check spells that increase dexterity, charisma and movility... those would be your greatest friends to makea successfull swashbuckler...
and get someone to cast jump on you!!! +20 on all jump related rolls is great... and I say great... aerial charges have never been better, there were feats in 3.0 thatlet you increase your attack or defense spending Turn Undead tries...
when you create aa character concept think more in what would give you fun, instead of just "what would be helpful" in a table... which won't do a much difference if you arrive and half the aprty is the same class... (yeah I have been in a table with 2 to 3 bards... well in 3.5... PF i think they were abandoning ship after the changes)