P20 Modern, it's gonna Pathfinderize d20 Modern!!
This sounds so awesome that even I'm interested in modern!!
Drop in your bits and pass the word! :)
I have, hopefully this post being on the most popular modern thread will bring some attention!
P.S. BEEP!
This section bothers me:
Characters from the finished RPG should be interchangeable, from a balance and rules perspective if not one of storyline, with characters from the RPG Pathfinder Core Rulebook. If you want to have paramedics and SWAT members taking on dragons and labyrinths, this product will be designed to assist you.
One of the core complaints against D20 Modern was that it tried to do exactly this - it was perceived heavily by the game-buying public as being, in effect, D&D with guns and cars.
I am of the firm belief that the D20 Modern system was fine, with a few glaring issues (the resources/wealth abstract system was well intentioned, but poorly executed, for instance). The fact that it was not completely interchangeable with D&D may have been a weakness, but I felt that it was necessary to make each game have its own distinctive feel - which the Hero Archetypes did quite nicely.
Working from the get-go to make characters from each game interchangeable is a laudable goal, but honestly folks, do you really want to repeat the same mistake that cost D20M a foothold in the game market? The very last thing I think anyone would want to hear about the project is "It's like Pathfinder, but with guns and cars."
I for one, ADORE the idea of interchangeaility, I love the idea of Modern setting with Trolls and Fairies in the untouched places, forgotten by man, I love the thought of having New York with wizards, etc.
That line is what MAKES me willing to contribute, and I'm a very poverty stricken student, who has to be careful with how much I spend on food, but I will save up contribute to this for that line.
I for one, ADORE the idea of interchangeaility, I love the idea of Modern setting with Trolls and Fairies in the untouched places, forgotten by man, I love the thought of having New York with wizards, etc.
That line is what MAKES me willing to contribute, and I'm a very poverty stricken student, who has to be careful with how much I spend on food, but I will save up contribute to this for that line.
That's your right and your privilege as a gamer, but as someone who picks and chooses his projects very, very carefully, I've taken a more reserved tack when it comes to my decisions to contribute to a project. I won't even get into how twitchy it makes me to see a monetary contribution level on a project that isn't even written yet. Eeegh.
I hate to say it, but honestly, I think you're in the minority when it comes to the idea appealing to you. The number one reason for D20M's low numbers is now and always has been the "D&D With Guns" factor. At the point where you have a completely interchangeable product, you're basically just filing the serial numbers off of a bunch of Orcs and relabeling them as "Don Cartucci's Thugs."
And honestly, I can do that without an entirely new book.
I do have a question about this project that doesn't enter into the realm of opinion, though:
What does Paizo think about it? The Pathfinder Compatibility License is pretty explicit when it says that it doesn't provide license for a completely standalone product. All indications at the moment seem to say that this project would, in fact, be a completely standalone item.
Anyone? Bueller?
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I can't imagine any reason they would need approval from Paizo or any one else. D20 modern uses the OGL license, which means anyone can take and build and improve upon it. Pathfinder uses the OGL as well and is Open Content so anyone can use and build upon it. Even as a stand alone product. HOWEVER you cannot use the Pathfinder name without using the Pathfinder license. The project name, P20 is periously close to violating that license, but as they said it may not be the name of the final product.
I can't imagine any reason they would need approval from Paizo or any one else. D20 modern uses the OGL license, which means anyone can take and build and improve upon it. Pathfinder uses the OGL as well and is Open Content so anyone can use and build upon it. Even as a stand alone product. HOWEVER you cannot use the Pathfinder name without using the Pathfinder license. The project name, P20 is periously close to violating that license, but as they said it may not be the name of the final product.
That was one of my thoughts about it as well, however the stated intent of the product also draws it perilously close to being subject to intense scrutiny from Paizo on more than one front.
As I am quite supportive of getting as many good, fan-supported gaming products on the market as possible, I'm rooting for the project to succeed (quiet concerns about that whole monetary investment thing aside). But at the same time, I firmly believe that they should have a lawyer take a gander at them-thar legal hedges before they become barbed wire barricades.
Id go for a Paizo version of Gamma World...
I think Ruins & Wastelands is what you want.
Super Genius Games was trying to push a patronage drive for the past two months for the 'P20 Modern' project. However, since the patronage kickstart ends tomorrow, it's going to be a bit shy of its intended goal. :( There's a lot of people that claim interest in a Pathfinderized version of Modern, but for me it rings kind of hollow when it comes down to actual support.
Hopefully they'll come up with something on their next patronage offering once they restrategize their plans and goals to get it off the ground.
Super Genius Games was trying to push a patronage drive for the past two months for the 'P20 Modern' project. However, since the patronage kickstart ends tomorrow, it's going to be a bit shy of its intended goal. :( There's a lot of people that claim interest in a Pathfinderized version of Modern, but for me it rings kind of hollow when it comes down to actual support.
Hopefully they'll come up with something on their next patronage offering once they restrategize their plans and goals to get it off the ground.
Honestly, Urizen, I feel in some cases it's the fact that, while people would like to see a modern version, they either don't want to a) see it in someone's hands other than Paizo and/or b) don't swing with the Patronage concept. I know I'd love to see a Modern Pathfinder-ized game, but I'm not going toss my money in blindly to help fund a book that I may not like when I can spend my money on finding something I do like.
Honestly, Urizen, I feel in some cases it's the fact that, while people would like to see a modern version, they either don't want to a) see it in someone's hands other than Paizo and/or b) don't swing with the Patronage concept. I know I'd love to see a Modern Pathfinder-ized game, but I'm not going toss my money in blindly to help fund a book that I may not like when I can spend my money on finding something I do like.
I'm pretty sure it's a lot more A) and a little bit of B). But I may be able to hypothesize if Paizo was doing it on condition of a patronage concept to hire in outside freelancers under their supervision, I'd see B) being more successful.
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I love the D20 Modern system myself and run it for the majority of my games, as does the other GM in our gaming group. I think one of the highpoints of the system was it's trademark flexibility, and I think that Paizo would be able to do this beautifully if they decided to make it. I would love to see something much like D20 Modern, but with the Pathfinder rules changes and with added options much like has been done with the Pathfinder revamp of 3.5.
Although it would be fairly easy to simply revamp the ruleset as house rules I think one of the big problems with the state of D20 Modern, as was mentioned before, is the lack of official support. Although there is a lot of 3rd party support for the system the core books are no longer in production, meaning that the only way for new players to get into the game is through either the online SRD or buying a core book at high prices from someone who already has one.
This poses a serious problem for 3rd party publishers who wish to continue working with the system, as it is extremely difficult to attract new players to a system that is not in print anymore.
Besides creating a new incarnation of the game that many of us know and love Paizo's revamp would also breathe new life into a series that is dying for lack of official support, opening new possibilities for Paizo to expand into modern sourcebooks, adventures, etc. as well as helping 3rd party publishers and fans who may want to publish adventures through the growing PDF market to contribute to the rebirth of the game they love.
A problem we have to consider is that Paizo may not be interested in D20 Modern as a potential project due to its general lack of sales. What has to be made clear is that the reason for this was the lack of support the game recieved from the get-go, rather than a lack of interest in the game itself. I, for one, have a copy of every official D20 Modern sourcebook sitting on my shelf and would be happy to invest in a Pathfinder version, especially one that is backwards compatible with the original as Pathfinder is with 3.5 D&D.
I would like to make a heartfelt plea to Paizo to resuscitate D20 Modern with their trademark flair, rather than allowing it to die the slow death games inevitably suffer when deprived of official support.
I'm sure I'm a little late for the P20 Modern discussion, but I'm going to chime in anyway, since I've been looking over some rule sets to start planning a campaign along these lines.
First, I have to say this: I don't really care who does the conversion, as long as it's good. I doubt that there are really that many Paizo-only people around, especially considering that Paizo started out as a third-party publisher. That said, I think setting up a charity to create a book that will be sold for profit is a scam. I may well avoid even looking at the final "P20 Modern" project simply because of their business plan, which to me is offensive, as they are essentially a for-profit company disguising themselves as a charity. In case any of the designers of that book are reading this, here's how it usually works: first you write the book and then you convince someone that it's good enough to publish and then the people give you money because they like what you did and want to own a copy.
Second, it looks like Kevin has already done the easy, but tedious part of the conversion (I'd love to see that, by the way. It'd save me a ton of time). Kevin also did a nice job identifying the main two sticking points: wealth and classes.
As for wealth, I think it obviously needs an update, but the entire concept behind it seems solid to me. Modern characters will have credit cards, utility bills, and rent. This makes dollars and cents a bad route for money, unless you really want to spend time working out finances every session. I don't have the answer yet (but I'm working on one).
As for the classes, I've been starting to brainstorm some real modern classes like the normal d20 classes. Ruins and Wastelands had a start to this, and some of them might even work, but to me they lack the whole flavour of modern as they are still so obviously conversions of the fantasy classes. I'm starting this work right now, Kevin, so if you'd like to team up on it, shoot me a message.
First, I have to say this: I don't really care who does the conversion, as long as it's good. I doubt that there are really that many Paizo-only people around, especially considering that Paizo started out as a third-party publisher. That said, I think setting up a charity to create a book that will be sold for profit is a scam. I may well avoid even looking at the final "P20 Modern" project simply because of their business plan, which to me is offensive, as they are essentially a for-profit company disguising themselves as a charity. In case any of the designers of that book are reading this, here's how it usually works: first you write the book and then you convince someone that it's good enough to publish and then the people give you money because they like what you did and want to own a copy.
A patronage project is not a 'scam' to set up a charity for a for profit book. It is instead essentially an extreme pre-order. A small company that could normally not afford to spend the resources to create such a large project asks for the money for the book up front, so they can pay writers, artists and printing companies to make the book. The patrons then not only get a copy of the book at the end (thus it not being a charitable donation, since you actually get the product at the end) but they also get something money cant buy. A chance to put your voice into a product you want. How many times to customers say, oh i love this product except for such and such, and if only i could have put in a word to get that changed it would be perfect (for me), well with a patronage project you get that chance.
A patronage project might not be for you, but to call it a scam is an ignorant thing to say.
Question for the folks complaining about the Wealth system:
What, specifically, with as many details as possible, makes the Wealth system not work for you?
For my own gits and shiggles (read: NOT a commercial project), I am making my own d20 Modern "Pathfinderization" (and general revision). While there's a lot of priorities before even taking on the wealth system, I have seen requests for revision of the wealth system before, and I'm considering whether that's something I should address as I work on my project.
On paper, the system looks fine to me and makes sense, as far as I can tell. I haven't had problems with it in play, but most d20 Modern games I've played either went short or just didn't deal with acquisition of stuff a whole lot. Based on my limited experience, I am totally willing to concede I probably missed something and would like to know others' experiences with the system to understand it what way it didn't work for them.
RE: Patronage projects: I've participated in patronage projects before and they're pretty on the up and up there. And the company doing that particular project made no implications that they were doing this as a "charity"--they were looking for backers, not donations. As it is, I think the project failed and all backers were refunded.
Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.
1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:
A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).
B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.
I'm going to go with both A and B on this one.
I like "A" because the classes, talent trees, and even the wealth system was great for making characters that fit the idea of the concept, without much baggage attached. (You try saying "cleric" and I guarantee that likely 70% of the people that hear that will say "ooh! Healer!") I also liked the approach for Urban Arcana and "The Shadow", and some of the other options for the games.
(B)ut I also like "B" because of the flavor that Paizo brought to "Pathfinder" from what 3.5 was. You all made it more colorful, more lively, put more color back into the "fantasy", and the idea of you doing the same for D20 Modern is something that I would like. I'm sure I would disagree with some of the mechanics changes, but if you put the amount of effort into it that you did for PF, I know I'd be satisfied.
All right Late to this thread but I just wanted my 2 cents in here. I think that you guys have are Great and if you made a modern era game with different mechanics from Pathfinder but with the same care that when into Pathfinder if would be a great game and I would buy it. That being said if would be great if it was d20 rules so that cross over game would be easier.
What I would love is books about Modern era and SiFi games all compatible with Pathfinder. You guys have great Art, the best Mechanics for an RPG I have played, and honestly have figure out what we want and I would love to see your take on other types of games other then fantasy.
Anyway not sure if it matter but there it is my 2 cents.
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That said, I think setting up a charity to create a book that will be sold for profit is a scam. I may well avoid even looking at the final "P20 Modern" project simply because of their business plan, which to me is offensive, as they are essentially a for-profit company disguising themselves as a charity. In case any of the designers of that book are reading this, here's how it usually works: first you write the book and then you convince someone that it's good enough to publish and then the people give you money because they like what you did and want to own a copy.
Super Genius Games is not, and has never presented itself as, a charity. We have a traditional publishing model for dozens of products, which are generally well-reviewed, successful, and popular.
For the P20 Modern project, we tried a patronage model for a single product. We are hardly the first company to use this model. Industry veteran Wolfgang Baur has not only done very well with patronage projects (even receiving awards for the business model http://www.dianajonesaward.org/08winner.html), he's produced some of the most popular and successful game supplements in the past few years on the pay first, see what you get later model.
In case you come back and read this response, here's how it usually works: a business offers services or products for compensation. The model of how the compensation and work flow back and forth between business and customer varies. Try telling a contractor you'll pay him in full after he's finished remodeling your bathroom and you know if you like it, and see how that goes over.
Even Paizo often takes money before they do the work, it's called a pre-order.
And what we offered was more than a book, it was involvement in a process. Anyone who wished to would be able to buy in, and watch, comment, and participate in the creation of the book. That would, simply not be possible to offer after-the-fact, since you can't participate in a completed process. A thread hundreds of posts long included dozens of fans telling us they wanted us to try to produce a book under a patronage model. Since we love and listen to our fans, we gave it a try. With Kickstarter, no one is charged a dime unless the project is fully funded. So we never took anyone's money, there was never any cost to any participant, and the fact the project ended up not going forward left no one out anything. We advertised exactly what our business plan was, and to claim we "disguised" ourselves up as a charity is factually untrue and offensive.
If you don't like innovative and proven business plans that can allow fans to get books that otherwise won't exist, and allow them insight and input in the creation process of those products, that's your prerogative. If we ever do create a Pathfinder-compatible modern rpg, feel free to turn your nose up because we didn't stick to economic models that make you comfortable.
But don't expect me to ignore claims that the company I'm working very hard to build engages in scams, deception, or dishonesty.
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First, I have to say this: I don't really care who does the conversion, as long as it's good. I doubt that there are really that many Paizo-only people around, especially considering that Paizo started out as a third-party publisher. That said, I think setting up a charity to create a book that will be sold for profit is a scam. I may well avoid even looking at the final "P20 Modern" project simply because of their business plan, which to me is offensive, as they are essentially a for-profit company disguising themselves as a charity. In case any of the designers of that book are reading this, here's how it usually works: first you write the book and then you convince someone that it's good enough to publish and then the people give you money because they like what you did and want to own a copy.
Wow. That was pretty harsh. As Owen said, Super Genius never even remotely presented themselves as a charity. They wanted to see if doing a P20 Modern book would be viable under a Patronage model, that's all. Sure, it's not the traditional publishing model, but it's hardly that off the wall. Open Design has been doing it for some time for instance.
As Owen said, those that contribute money in a Patronage project get to actually have a say in the design process - that's pretty huge! If someone prefers the more traditional model, simply wait until the book is done and then just buy a copy if it looks good, just like any other book. Also, if I'm not mistaken, some of the people in SGG actually worked on the 3.5 D20 Modern game, so having them do the Pathfinder 'version' would be a GOOD thing!
It's one thing to express an opinion or a preference for one business model or another. It's another to actually accuse a company of wrong doing without actual facts to back it up. That's not fair and it's not cool.
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Also, if I'm not mistaken, some of the people in SGG actually worked on the 3.5 D20 Modern game, so having them do the Pathfinder 'version' would be a GOOD thing!
Since the question has come up, Stan! worked on the core book, d20 Future, d20 Menace Manual, and a lot of the material that came out after as a 3pp with Game Mechanics. I worked on the WotC releases d20 Cyberscape, d20 Apocalypse, d20 Critical Locations, and for more than a year was the official Bullet Points d20-Modern rules answer guy for WotC. Hyrum has fewer credits, but more experience marketing such a game to the outside world.
So yeah... we're familiar with it. :D
The fine gents of SGG has more than paid their dues in the industry.
But to focus on Owen specifically ... if someone has never heard of the man or have come across the volume in work he's released, then you have to ask yourself this one question: were you ever playing any iteration of d20 in the first place?
*drops microphone*
Now, about that P20.... {twitches} ;-)
ok so this thread when all crazy there but, away. One thing I liked alot about the d20 modern game, not the system so much as the fact that it was very customizable. With urban arcana and d20 future. I would like to see that done for Pathfinder, and I would be willing to contribute some (not much I am kind of poor but still i would throw some in) to making something like that.
also I saw a post from a year ago or so about a post apocalyptic pathfinder game at a con of some kind, any write up on that somewhere I have been working on one for my home brew.
Modern was very good, as was the non-ogl Star Wars Saga which was based on the Talent system of Modern.
Being OGl, Modern should be pretty easy to re-launch. I would go with 20 level core instead of 10 level core classes however.
The perception of it being "D&D" with guns is a false one tied to Wizard's choosing of Urban Arcana as it's first setting. Had they went with the Shadow Chasers setting they had in the core book, which was low magic, they would have done better capturing the feel of Buffy/angel and the TV version of Dresden.
The key is going with less spells, but with access to few, but powerful magic items at lower levels.
But there are also other d20 modern versions, such as Spycraft that are out there. I know Spycraft has been adapted into Fantasy Craft.
I admit
Kevin Webb: IIRC, the Profession Skill applies to Wealth as well as your Wealth bonus. Perhaps it would be easier to work it that way in the program--that "Wealth" is a bonus that adds to Profession checks.
In the revision I'm working up, I got rid of gambling completely -- people who are gamblers are good at keeping a poker face (Bluff) or hiding aces up their sleeves (Sleight of Hand) or tracking statistics (Intelligence checks). The luck component of gambling can be handled with random die rolls, and/or you can use the gambling rules in the Game Mastery Guide.
In case you come back and read this response, here's how it usually works: a business offers services or products for compensation. The model of how the compensation and work flow back and forth between business and customer varies. Try telling a contractor you'll pay him in full after he's finished remodeling your bathroom and you know if you like it, and see how that goes over.Even Paizo often takes money before they do the work, it's called a pre-order.
And what we offered was more than a book, it was involvement in a process. Anyone who wished to would be able to buy in, and watch, comment, and participate in the creation of the book. That would, simply not be possible to offer after-the-fact, since you can't participate in a completed process. A thread hundreds of posts...
This is a false comparison, Owen. I've worked construction projects. Most of the money that gets paid up front goes to paying for supplies and the rest is a good faith payment to prove that the buyers can afford to get the work done. You don't need to give a good faith payment for a $50 book. And I know lots of companies do pre-orders, but that's also not the same thing because they aren't ever asking for more than the price of the book. There's no $500 pre-order option where $50 goes to the book and the rest is just a donation to the company that you love so much.
And to call it "patronage" is an affront to the English language, even if it's the prevailing term in the RPG industry (which, as far as I can tell, is the only industry using this model). When a patron pays for a work to be created, he owns the work in whole. Not a copy of the art. The copyright on the art. Unless you are selling shares of your copyright, this does not follow the centuries if not millennia old understanding of patronage. If a company needs more capital, they always have the option of selling more shares or taking out a loan, don't they?And look, Owen, I'm not saying this because I doubt your credentials or anyone else's on the team. I have read some of your work and I think it's very good, and if Stan! is working on the project, his name is every bit as well-respected. It's not a personal attack, so please don't take it as that. It's an attack on a business model that I find very troubling and I see becoming more common in the industry.
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I'd just like to throw my 2 cents in. Sure it would be wonderful to have every book advailable that you'd like, but that's not reasonable. I'm currently running a Kingmaker campaign. While playing it, I begin thinking... man wouldn't it be cool if you could apply these exploration and city building rules to space. One of my sons is really into Pathfinder, but the other really likes space... so to pull both of them in, I started to work on a space/future/modern version of pathfinder. It's alot of work, but it's not really hard. If there's something you want and it's not out there... make it.
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I have virtually no interest in a "Pathfinder" d20 Modern (my D20 go-to book is Grim Tales by Badaxe Games), but IF SGG decides to pursue it again, I suggest utilizing their Archetype system on the d20 Modern, uh, classes (e.g., Strong, Agile, Tough, etc.) Want a tough guy who's real good with electronics? Select Tough class and Gadget Wizard archetype? Dexter? Charismatic(?) class and Investigator Archetype.
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I have virtually no interest in a "Pathfinder" d20 Modern (my D20 go-to book is Grim Tales by Badaxe Games), but IF SGG decides to pursue it again, I suggest utilizing their Archetype system on the d20 Modern, uh, classes (e.g., Strong, Agile, Tough, etc.) Want a tough guy who's real good with electronics? Select Tough class and Gadget Wizard archetype? Dexter? Charismatic(?) class and Investigator Archetype.
That really never seemed to work well. Everyone I played with chose classes just to get to prc's and by and large only three classes were ever prime(Fast,Smart, and Charismatic, with an occasional Tough or Wisdom level for something very specific). I mean, I like the idea of generic classes with generic class features, but I would really like to see more things done here. D20 Cthulhu divided it into just two classes and I think that worked pretty well. But then I hate how that's done.
Crystal has been a true believer for d20 modern for a long time and I'd love for her to have something like this that we could play together. It's just been so meh in the past.
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I think one of the main problems with d20 Modern was that the "classes" were kind of a joke. Dividing them amongst the attributes was a silly idea. In D&D/PFRPG, there are large fundamental differences between the classes and their abilities. d20 Modern, not as much. I think having a single generic "class" with lots of customization options would be the way to go.
As for the patronage concept, I've been a patron on three projects now (Trailblazer monster book, Red Eye of Azathoth, and Tales of the Old Margreve). I think it's a fairly good idea for smaller RPG publishers. That said, even though I'm a pretty patient guy, I wish I had all three books in my greedy little hands NOW! As such, think I probably won't do the patronage thing anymore unless a project REALLY catches my attention and calls out to me.
Part of the problem of classes in modern day is scope and variety. In Pathfinder, you have a set of adventuring classes - and they are just meant to be adventurers. There are NPC classes to cover the other roles. You might need a few more NPC classes to make it work in modern times, due to increased specialization, but the main characters are adventurers.
The problem, though, is that modern day adventures might take several different directions, and unless you narrow your scope you need more variety. Consider, for example, Leverage. It would be pretty easy to develop the five basic jobs they use into character classes - mastermind, grifter, thief, hacker, and hitter. But all the Leverage team does is plan and execute crime, usually con jobs.
Or consider Indiana Jones, or Tomb Raider. In a game like this, you'd need even fewer classes, less emphasis on social roles, but they'd need more abilities between them.
Final example: consider a cop vs. criminals type setting, like Lethal Weapon or Bad Boys. You probably only need two classes at most, because the scope is so narrow.
As you widen the scope, you have to either increase the number of possible classes, or find some other way of allowing the possible options. I think WotC did a fine job - while it may seem silly, grouping people by how they (broadly) accomplish their goals, then using talents and careers, makes for an excellent way of modeling all kinds of situations without needing a bevy of classes.
So it seems to me - if you want to update d20 Modern, in order to have the broad scope the original game had, you need a few, highly customizable classes, and those classes can't be tied to a particular genre.
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So it seems to me - if you want to update d20 Modern, in order to have the broad scope the original game had, you need a few, highly customizable classes, and those classes can't be tied to a particular genre.
Agreed. That's why I suggested the using the attributed-based Modern d20 classes and combining them with SGG's archetype format.
Hmmm. I haven't fully looked over them yet, but what about the archetype stuff from Paizo's Advanced Players Guide?
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Ok, I am done with the first base class, (Strong). All the base classes will be under NPC classes, (they work the same way) and go to level 20.
IIRC, it was assumed that d20 Modern PCs would be freely multi-classing without penalties, in the 'Ability-Score' Base Classes, to reflect the priorities they wanted.
Given the new PF multi-class 'carrot' over the 3.5 'stick', will that mean all the base classes will count as favored?
That would seem to be the elegant way to do it, and also allow better matching of the classes to archetypes, from level 1 onwards, given the extra skill point could be used on any skill.
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Also, I dropped the Action points and Reputation rolls. I don’t think they are needed, but you can add Action points in the House Rules editor for Hero Lab if you want them.
I think Action Points should remain an optional rule, since their existence is mostly dependent on genre.
It's far easier for a GM to add them in, as a bonus, than to take them out, and be seen as a miser.
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I'm curious.
Please choose one of the following. I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate a little bit on your thoughts on the following question, if you would.
1) I am interested in a "Modern" Pathfinder RPG because:
A) I specifically prefer the rules conceits of d20 Modern (Fast Hero, Smart Hero, etc., talent trees, other mechanics stuff).
B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.
If the game becomes as successful as it appears it may, something like this is definitely within the realm of possibility in the medium to long term.
Please pick one of the choices above and expound a bit on the way you voted the way you did.
Thanks!
Oh man, I don't know which one to pick... I guess A would be the primary choice. I loved d20 modern, and the things that made modern separate, the class system, along with how the base/advanced/prestige worked. The talent trees were boffo, and the feat choices and starting occupation system was great. I like d20 modern as it is now, but as many have already said, I like pathfinder's skill system, along with the CMB/CMD rules. I would buy this and every supplemental book that came out for it. (like I did with the 1st party d20 modern products)
B) I am excited by the idea of a "Pathfinder" Modern RPG, regardless of mechanics.
(but I would prefer sci-fi instead of modern)