So any new Feats on the Power Attack chain now that OH Chop/Backswing are gone?? Overhand Chop/Backswing never depended on Power Attack.
I'm wondering what to replace OC with for the 2 fighters that have it in one of our games when we switch from beta to core.
I'm curious to any changes they made to high level spells. Specifically does Gate still let you summon something with hit dice equal to twice your caster level? Does Timestop have any more restrictions other than you can't harm anyone? How does Mindblank work, it used to completely protect you from divinations, it is supposedly changed.
Thanks
I'm wondering what to replace OC with for the 2 fighters that have it in one of our games when we switch from beta to core.So any new Feats on the Power Attack chain now that OH Chop/Backswing are gone?? Overhand Chop/Backswing never depended on Power Attack.
Why don't you just let them keep it?
I'm not sure I'm that unhappy with the nerf to 1st level at will spells. It seems like a feat restoring the beta at will abilities (and maybe some of the uses/day spells) would be balanced. It'd also just cry out to go from Greater (Bloodline/Domain/School) into a PrC that expanded on that.
What are the rules for stairs?
Why don't you just let them keep it?I'm wondering what to replace OC with for the 2 fighters that have it in one of our games when we switch from beta to core.So any new Feats on the Power Attack chain now that OH Chop/Backswing are gone?? Overhand Chop/Backswing never depended on Power Attack.
I'll probably keep the whole feat chain, but I'll want to see the whole rule set before I decide. I always gravitate toward more choices rather than less, and I haven't seen anything unbalancing with OC in play.
Did "Shall Not Pass" make the cut?
Have the grapple rules changed any since the beta?Yes, you can get most of the details in the preview posts on the blog, and in the Bonus Bestiary.
Long story short, CMB is the same, but the DC has changed to (basically) enemy's Touch AC + enemy's CMB.
Thanks.
Did "Shall Not Pass" make the cut?
Judging from the previews, it looks like they renamed it or changed it to Stand Still. I don't know if it's the same as the Stand Still from the Psionic SRD or not.
I think it works like Shall Not Pass,
but Stand Still sounds less "out there" stylistically.
(like Improvised Weapon Mastery replaces Razor-Sharp Chair Leg)
Using the same name (as Psi SRD's Stand Still) more clearly indicates it is the updated/Pathfinderized version of the old Feat, and that you shouldn't (by default) use the old version (much less BOTH)
Are you aware of the Iconic Previews (one for each core class + Eldritch Knight)
The Paladin Preview seemed to spill the beans quite effectively on those things...
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I encourage people to try the rules as is for at least a game or two. We started using the "3 + ability mod" limit on 1st level powers a while ago, and so far it's never come up. If your PCs are using their 1st level at will powers so much in a day that it does, then other things may need to be checked. As it stands, even the casters should have enough uses + their normal spells to feel useful early on.
Agreed...
I just don't think low-level character will typically see much more than (3 + Ability Mod) + (# of spells) rounds of combat/ day. They just don't have the HPs to survive that much combat, and having their magical attack last longer won't really change that.
Can anybody provide any info on Counterspell ?
Is it still in the rules ?
Is it still the same (lame) ability than before (ready an action to cast the same spell of the enemy) ?
Please tell me that it has been changed somehow...
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Is the Combat Expertise feat still limited by Intelligence as well as BAB?
How does grappling work, specifically when initiating a grapple against a smaller opponent does their smaller size make it easier or harder to initiate the grapple?
In Beta, the smaller the target the easier it was to initiate the grapple - it was one rule I purposefully abused in order to survive an encounter in Rise of the Runelords.
Bit of an odd question but does the rule book have like the Beta character sheets that can be scanned and printed out?
I have the creeping suspicion that we'll get a character sheet PDF to download - and maybe even with formular fields, if they force the PFPDF crew to do some more slave labour ;-)
Agreed...
I just don't think low-level character will typically see much more than (3 + Ability Mod) + (# of spells) rounds of combat/ day. They just don't have the HPs to survive that much combat, and having their magical attack last longer won't really change that.
I think I'll just change most to at will. Some abilities might need a restriction, but most won't unbalance anything - and not having to keep track is nice.
Is the Combat Expertise feat still limited by Intelligence as well as BAB?
How does grappling work, specifically when initiating a grapple against a smaller opponent does their smaller size make it easier or harder to initiate the grapple?
In Beta, the smaller the target the easier it was to initiate the grapple - it was one rule I purposefully abused in order to survive an encounter in Rise of the Runelords.
The new Combat Expertise probably works like the new Power Attack: -1 to attacks +2 to AC. This increases by -1/+2 for every 4 points of BAB you have (2/4 at BAB 4, 3/6 at 8 etc.)
Grapple is CMB against CMD. As in beta, the special size modifier is factored in both, and that one is basically the opposite of the normal size modifier, so small characters are still at a disadvantage (this has been even in 3e, though the special size modifiers have been decreased - back in 3e/3.5, smaller critters were really screwed if the enemy intended to grapple!)
Anybody able to tell me what the powers and spells for the Darkness and Death domains are?
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The new Combat Expertise probably works like the new Power Attack: -1 to attacks +2 to AC. This increases by -1/+2 for every 4 points of BAB you have (2/4 at BAB 4, 3/6 at 8 etc.)
Interesting, if that is the way it works it is much better than the Beta and even better than 3.5 - my fighter will love that.
so small characters are still at a disadvantage (this has been even in 3e
That is not the case though when initiating a grapple (which is why I was explicitly asking about that), in 3.5 to start the grapple you need to make a Touch Attack, the Touch AC being increased if the target was smaller.
Now it seems, if we come across a Small or Tiny opponent which we struggle to hit we will just go straight to Grapple it (the rule I abused in Beta and felt dirty doing it).
Oh well, at least as a player it will work in my favour (at least until a giant tries to grapple me).
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The new Combat Expertise probably works like the new Power Attack: -1 to attacks +2 to AC. This increases by -1/+2 for every 4 points of BAB you have (2/4 at BAB 4, 3/6 at 8 etc.)Interesting, if that is the way it works it is much better than the Beta and even better than 3.5 - my fighter will love that.
The description of Combat Expertise in Crypt of the Everflame has it working as -1 to attacks, +1 to AC, increasing by -1/+1 for every 4 BAB. The AC increase also increases your CMD.
I love this freakin' thread!
(Just had to say that...)
I know virtually nothing about Pathfinder Beta so all of this is like Christmas candy to me! My brain is on overload - thank God I'm sucking down coffee as fast as I can!
Paizo and you spoiler fellers rock!
The new Combat Expertise probably works like the new Power Attack: -1 to attacks +2 to AC. This increases by -1/+2 for every 4 points of BAB you have (2/4 at BAB 4, 3/6 at 8 etc.)Interesting, if that is the way it works it is much better than the Beta and even better than 3.5 - my fighter will love that.
In the case of power attack, there are a couple of extra rules, too (I don't know if anything of that nature is carried over to the feats that work like power attack): In the case of two-handed weapons, you get +3 for every -1, and off-hand weapons only +1. (I.e. 150% and 50%, respectively).
I could see something like 150% combat expertise if you have nothing in one hand (or just a shield) and 50% if you have a ranged weapon or two-handed melee weapon.
And something similar for deadly precision (maybe 50% for thrown, 150% for crossbows or other stuff that ignores your strength score).
so small characters are still at a disadvantage (this has been even in 3eThat is not the case though when initiating a grapple (which is why I was explicitly asking about that), in 3.5 to start the grapple you need to make a Touch Attack, the Touch AC being increased if the target was smaller.
Ah. No, as far as I know, the touch attack is gone. saves us one step.
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CMB = BAB + Str + size
CMD = 10 + BAB + Str + Dex + size
Did they change the wording of CMBs? They had it as an Attack roll plus CMB, and when you look up what an attack roll is it stated it was d20+STR+BAB+size (same as 3.x btw) so the true formula for CMB was d20+2xSTR+2xBAB. The size numbers negated one another. Everyone ASSUMED an attack roll was just a d20, but never has been.
This is a HUGE difference between the way it is played.
Did they change the wording of CMBs? They had it as an Attack roll plus CMB, and when you look up what an attack roll is it stated it was d20+STR+BAB+size (same as 3.x btw) so the true formula for CMB was d20+2xSTR+2xBAB. The size numbers negated one another. Everyone ASSUMED an attack roll was just a d20, but never has been.
This is a HUGE difference between the way it is played.
Here's what they say in the Bonus Bestiary:
"A creature’s CMB is equal to its base attack bonus + its Strength modifier + a special size modifier. Creatures with the Agile Maneuvers feat and creatures of size Tiny and smaller use their Dexterity bonus instead of their Strength bonus. A combat maneuver is an attack and gains all of the benefits (and penalties) a creature might gain on attack rolls from spells, feats, magic items, and conditional modifiers."
So it's clear that you don't add your attack bonus twice.
I was hoping the sorcerer would get some kind of game-breaking bloodline power. Alas...
Even a new bloodline would have been good enough for me.
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Ack!!! All Sorcerer 1st level attack powers are weaker and limited to 3+CHA per day and do less damage. This includes the claws.
Wait-- they got limited in uses per day and nerfed? How can such an ability still be relevant, between cantrips and the crossbow? Frankly, I can understand such nerfing for wizard schools, but sorcerers are supposed to be magic rather than study it. A useful at-will attack power would simply make sense here. They are already giving up so much versatility vs the wizard, so they could at least be good at what they do... ah well. </rant>
If this is only about avoiding far-fetched abuse such as the sorcerer-powered engine, they could just have added a sanity clause such as "the use of at-will abilities strains a sorcerer's energy reserves, thus repeated use beyond the scope of a combat encounter is impractical".
On the flip side, Bloodline arcana makes up for it in spades.Draconic sorcerers do +1 damage per die for their energy type
Elemental sorcerers get free energy substitution for their energy type which rocks.
What's bloodline arcana? A special ability in addition to the 1st-level blast? This all sounds quite interesting. What do celestial sorcerers get? I love that concept...
A) Does Paladin get only one smite per day or more as she level up?
B) Spells: Does heroism and good hope still give moral bonus?
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Wait-- they got limited in uses per day and nerfed? How can such an ability still be relevant, between cantrips and the crossbow?
I'm thinking that Feats to bump a Sorcerer's bloodline power or a Cleric's Domain power back up to Beta levels might be one of the first things I'm motivated to write up, when my copy arrives.
Thoughts off the top of my head (and not yet ready for prime-time...);
Free Arcana - the Sorcerer with this Feat can make use of his or her 1st level Bloodline power up to 3+Cha mod times per encounter, instead of per day. (Ooh, I hate the /encounter mechanic, but it's an option)
Steady Arcana - the Sorcerer has learned to call up the energies within their body slowly and precisely, rationing out their power much more efficiently than other Sorcerers. Any 1st level Bloodline ability activated as a Full-Round Action does not count against daily uses of the ability.
Arcana Adept - Prereq: Free Arcana or Steady Arcana. The Sorcerer with this Feat can make use of his or her 1st level Bloodline power at will, up to once per round.
Fast Arcana - Tbe Sorcerer with this Feat can use his or her 1st level Bloodline power as an attack action, instead of as a standard action, allowing one with a BAB of +6 or higher (or the Rapid Shot / Two-Weapon Fighting feats) to make iterative attacks.
Strong Arcana - The Sorcerer with this Feat increases the die size of any attack ability he or she gains as a 1st level Bloodline ability, and the bonus damage is increased to +1 hp / Sorcerer level or the Sorcerer's Charisma modifier, whichever is higher.
Anyone who has the rules and would like to volunteer to help update the Pathfinder SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com) is more than welcome to contact me! I'm not looking to get the rules posted before the official release date but am anxious to get started! Contact me at jreyst@gmail.com if you have the time and inclination!
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I'm thinking that Feats to bump a Sorcerer's bloodline power or a Cleric's Domain power back up to Beta levels might be one of the first things I'm motivated to write up, when my copy arrives.
I don't think that will be worth a feat. People seem to agree that 3 + Cha times per day is enough for most days of adventuring, and the ability will become moot at mid levels. Anyway, with the power nerfed vs beta (how in the seven hells was 1d6 + CL/2 overpowered?!), it is questionable whether even those 3 + Cha uses are worthwhile vs the crossbow.
Ack!!! All Sorcerer 1st level attack powers are weaker and limited to 3+CHA per day and do less damage. This includes the claws.Wait-- they got limited in uses per day and nerfed? How can such an ability still be relevant, between cantrips and the crossbow? Frankly, I can understand such nerfing for wizard schools, but sorcerers are supposed to be magic rather than study it. A useful at-will attack power would simply make sense here. They are already giving up so much versatility vs the wizard, so they could at least be good at what they do... ah well. </rant>
The change is frustrating but makes sense in a way, the claws were a bit too good and sent the wrong message. They made the sorcerer one of the better melee characters in the game at first level but low BAB means they quickly become ineffective even at middle levels.
edit: The reason this bugs me is because I have a sorcerer build on the claws that is going into Dragon Disciple. Doesn't make a lot of sense any more. The flip side is now all his fire spells do even better damage!
What's bloodline arcana?On the flip side, Bloodline arcana makes up for it in spades.
Draconic sorcerers do +1 damage per die for their energy type
Elemental sorcerers get free energy substitution for their energy type which rocks.
Sorcerer's all get a Bloodline Arcana, a special effect that alters spells they cast of specific types. Any creature summoned my a Celestial sorcerer has DR which improves as the sorcerer levels.
I'm thinking that Feats to bump a Sorcerer's bloodline power or a Cleric's Domain power back up to Beta levels might be one of the first things I'm motivated to write up, when my copy arrives.I don't think that will be worth a feat. People seem to agree that 3 + Cha times per day is enough for most days of adventuring, and the ability will become moot at mid levels. Anyway, with the power nerfed vs beta (how in the seven hells was 1d6 + CL/2 overpowered?!), it is questionable whether even those 3 + Cha uses are worthwhile vs the crossbow.
Actually the 1d6+ 1/2 CL powers are the same. Just the claws got hit.
Is there any kind of stuff in the final version for "sword and board" type fighters, paladins, etc.? I mean, there's been a lot of stuff about two-handed weapons, and the two-weapon fighting style ....
There are 6 (7 if you could shield proficiency) shield related feats that let you do things like shield bash, bull rush with your sheild, and give you better AC due to shields. Not going to detail them all but they seem pretty decent to me.
For example shield slam lets you get a free bullrush attack with a successful shield bash. This does require TWF and Imp Shield Bash though.
For example shield slam lets you get a free bullrush attack with a successful shield bash. This does require TWF and Imp Shield Bash though.
Do animated shields still exist? Are they more expensive?
For example shield slam lets you get a free bullrush attack with a successful shield bash. This does require TWF and Imp Shield Bash though.
Whoah wait
they kept the TWF requirement on the Shield feats? All of them or just the bull rush one?
Even if it's just the bull rush one, that's pretty sad. I don't see why sword and board users keep getting lumped into TWF.
they kept the TWF requirement on the Shield feats? All of them or just the bull rush one?
Even if it's just the bull rush one, that's pretty sad. I don't see why sword and board users keep getting lumped into TWF.
Before you get all excited... wait until you get your book because you aren't getting the full picture. It is a little strange, Imp Shield bash does not require TWF but Shield Slam does. Shield slam is a very nice feat though.
Before you get all excited... wait until you get your book because you aren't getting the full picture. It is a little strange, Imp Shield bash does not require TWF but Shield Slam does. Shield slam is a very nice feat though.
No that's IT!
I QUIT PATHFINDER FOREVER!
I think it works like Shall Not Pass,
but Stand Still sounds less "out there" stylistically.
(like Improvised Weapon Mastery replaces Razor-Sharp Chair Leg)Using the same name (as Psi SRD's Stand Still) more clearly indicates it is the updated/Pathfinderized version of the old Feat, and that you shouldn't (by default) use the old version (much less BOTH)
"They Shall not Pass" is actually a reference to WWI and the first battle of the marne...it was the French battle cry as the Germans nearly broke the trench lines and made it to Paris...so I kind of liked the old name myself... it reminds me of my old Temple of Elemental Evil npc....Nun Shallpass... the assistant to Terjon the cleric
The PFRPG hit Germany! :-)I hope to god that KaeYoss hasn't posted for a few hours because he is busy reading, otherwise this could get ugly ;)
What the f@@+? Now people I never saw before are getting uppity.
For the record, I haven't posted for a few hourse because I was busy working, having dinner, and watching Monk before I logged on.
The PFRPG hit Germany! :-)
Hit it where?
I see dragonworld got it. Anywhere else?
Any German subscribers getting theirs yet? It's early, but not quite impossible.
Two questions:
How many pages long is the feat table?
Anything new for half-orcs?The feat table is 3.8 pages long.
Half-Orcs are the same as the Beta except:
They get +2 to one ability score instead of +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int
They get +2 racial bonus to IntimidateThose are the only changes.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
Strangely that small thing makes me happy.
To those who have received their books already...
Do you like or dislike the fact that they combined the PHB and DMG into one huge tome? Would you have rather they sold two seperate books instead?