I have another question on the Monk, regarding the new Power Attack.
Since we have now the full rules for Power Attack (from Amiri's Preview), we now know that P.A. is based on the BaB of the character.
"Finally, there is Power Attack, which grants a +2 bonus on damage for a –1 penalty on attack rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 beyond +4, the bonus to damage increases by +2 and the penalty increase by –1. Wielding a two-handed weapon increases the damage by 50%, whereas off-hand weapons get only half the damage bonus."
Now, my question is, what is the value a Monk can use for using Power Attack with Flurry of Blows ?
1) Since the Monk's BaB is based on 3/4 HD progression (like that of the Cleric), the maximum value a Monk can use is -4 hit/+8 damage (maximum BaB= +15, so P.A. from BaB +12 to +15)
or
2) Since the Monk uses the Fighter's BaB when Flurrying, he can P.A. for a maximum of -6hit/+12 damage at 20th (but only when using Flurry of Blows, otherwise he uses the formula above when not Flurrying)
I think the right formula is the 1), but I can see that even 2) can be reasonable...
Has anybody thought about this question ?...
(I know it's unusual for somebody to quote himself, but still...)
Now, my question is, what is the value a Monk can use for using Power Attack with Flurry of Blows ?Has anybody thought about this question ?...
Yes, I have thought about it (because I have a monk PC). :-)
I would guess it depends on how the ability is worded. Likewise, I've wondered if an 11th level monk can qualify for a feat that requires BAB +11 (say). I doubt it, but we'll soon see.
Now, my question is, what is the value a Monk can use for using Power Attack with Flurry of Blows ?Has anybody thought about this question ?...
Yes, I have thought about it (because I have a monk PC). :-)
I would guess it depends on how the ability is worded. Likewise, I've wondered if an 11th level monk can qualify for a feat that requires BAB +11 (say). I doubt it, but we'll soon see.
Also thought about it, just no way to answer until we see the final rules.
Quite possible the monk would be able to use a higher power attack during a flurry.
Yes, I have thought about it (because I have a monk PC). :-)I would guess it depends on how the ability is worded. Likewise, I've wondered if an 11th level monk can qualify for a feat that requires BAB +11 (say). I doubt it, but we'll soon see.
You are right hogarth, this is another thing that should be clarified with the final rules at hand.
I suspect that a Monk cannot take such a feat at 11th level (since his BaB is not effectively +11 until he is 15th level), but it's true that using his Flurry of Blows he benefits from a 'virtual BaB' and a Player or GM can argue that he could take such a feat gaining its benefits only when Flurrying (like in my Power Attack example above).Well, only 3 weeks to know the truth...
Now, my question is, what is the value a Monk can use for using Power Attack with Flurry of Blows ?Has anybody thought about this question ?...
Yes, I have thought about it (because I have a monk PC). :-)
I would guess it depends on how the ability is worded. Likewise, I've wondered if an 11th level monk can qualify for a feat that requires BAB +11 (say). I doubt it, but we'll soon see.
My knee-jerk reaction says that as the rules are written, the monk can only use his BAB, which is at 3/4 progression. His flurry gains the benefit of a higher BAB, but it's not technically the monk BAB.
this does not prove me wrong.
A) if the languages in the beta was sloppy sometimes, it does not mean that all the beta suffered from sloppy languages.
B)I used the preview a reference.
It's about the preview.
Discrepancies and sloppy language don't crop up in the previews? Like "plus 1d6 cold/19-20" vs. "/19-20 plus 1d6 cold" (which I believe you were the one who pointed out)? Your argument is that the language in the previews can be read in a literal sense as the official final rules. I've pointed out another instance in which that is not the case.
No, that doesn't mean that we should discount everything that's stated in the previews, but it does imply that we need to interpret all of that text with an eye towards common sense, without getting bogged down in the most literal possible meanings.
Kuma:
Terminal velocity is a product of wind/air resistance versus the surface area of the object, if there is no air in the tower, there is no resistance. Also, in eventuality, if you were to have a contained environment like that it would act as a particle accelerator would, with gravity being the only power source required. Even if you did have air in the tower, it would start moving at the same rate that the pebbles/rocks are, meaning constant acceleration of everything in the tower, meaning a constantly accelerating wind tunnel with shotgun shot in it.As far as the stunning scenario:
The whirlwind attack supplies one attack that has the potential of hitting all opponents in your "engaged" area, according to the way the rule reads, as ruled by 5 independant gamers and 2 DM's without influence--all of whom are rules jockeys. If there is some additional material other than the beta that I'm not seeing please let me know (possible FAQ that I didn't find)
Huh. Imagine that. A medieval tower pressure vessel rated for vacuum. I wonder if it's code-stamped.
I'd like to point out that this setup would likely instantaneously rip the universe apart into a supermassive black hole.
Analogy: Hold a microphone up to its speaker, and its frequency and amplitude get amplified to the limit of the speaker at the speed of sound.
Gravity is an energy, just like light. It travels in waves at the speed of light. When it goes into one portal, some small fraction of it gets put into the feedback loop, and thus a small fraction of matter on earth seems to weigh twice as much. Then three times as much. Then four. Then five. Mind you, this happens really quickly, as the gravity wave travels at the speed of light between the space of the two portals.
After putting the universe back together again the third time, the gods of pathfinder (and the DMs) have ruled such that no portal may face itself.
Again we are talking about a realm were things can be enchanted to be impervious to particular (pardon the pun) types of damage, in addition if you want it to be electrically charged all you need is a good lightning bolt or call lightning spell involved in shocking/shocking burst weapons. As far as the entrance of these particles, just wait until you have everything loaded before you create the bottom portal--everything will fall straight down. On top of that, I have a hard time believing that in a sealed environment where there is, in effect, no ground to stop it from succoumbing to the planets gravity entirely, that any atmosphereic "pressure" would build up since there is nothing to give it resistance (in eventuality). As far as accounting for all gravitational pulls on the tower itself, I offer you: the plumb-bob. Shows what is effectively straight down according to all gravitational pulls using only a string and a weight. Any further nay-saying you would like me to counter, or is one of my major "monsters" in game legitimate (she uses rods of teleport object)?
There are lots of things wrong with this rules wise and physics wise but this belongs in a different thread so I'm not going to even get into it.
MONKS don't have teleport object.
Discrepancies and sloppy language don't crop up in the previews? Like "plus 1d6 cold/19-20" vs. "/19-20 plus 1d6 cold" (which I believe you were the one who pointed out)?this does not prove me wrong.
A) if the languages in the beta was sloppy sometimes, it does not mean that all the beta suffered from sloppy languages.
B)I used the preview a reference.
It's about the preview.
Yes, Jason is human and make mistakes.
Your argument is that the language in the previews can be read in a literal sense as the official final rules. I've pointed out another instance in which that is not the case.
No I did not say that. I said. What are the facts? We don't know the final. We have the preview. I might be wrong I might be right. No one knows. Saying I'm wrong because you think the preview might be wrong is just ad-hoc.
No, that doesn't mean that we should discount everything that's stated in the previews, but it does imply that we need to interpret all of that text with an eye towards common sense, without getting bogged down in the most literal possible meanings.
Common sense? A 16 level druid picking 1 level monk and gets a flurry based on druid level (or whatever) and then go shapeshifting getting wisdom bunus to AC and just smash away is common sense?
Help me out (not ironi).
A) What's the flurry for a 17 level monk?
B) What's the flurry for a 16 level druid + 1 level monk?
C) What's the flurry for a 17 level druid?
Flurry is a class ability just like sneak attack.
Please answer my 3 questions, I'm not ironic. And when you push the "submit post" button. Tell me what's common sense.
Help me out (not ironi).
A) What's the flurry for a 17 level monk?
B) What's the flurry for a 16 level druid + 1 level monk?
C) What's the flurry for a 17 level druid?
My educated guess:
A) +15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0 (like a +17 BAB character using I/G/TWF)B) +11/+11/+6/+1 (like a +13 BAB character using TWF)
C) N/A
Help me out (not iron[y]).
A) What's the flurry for a 17 level monk?
B) What's the flurry for a 16 level druid + 1 level monk?
C) What's the flurry for a 17 level druid?Flurry is a class ability just like sneak attack.
Please answer my 3 questions, I'm not ironic. And when you push the "submit post" button. Tell me what's common sense.
A) Flurry at +15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0/+0 (17th monk level, effective BAB +17 with -2 flurry penalty).
B) Flurry at +11/+11/+6/+1 (16th level druid has BAB +12, +1 for monk 1 = effective BAB +13 with -2 flurry penalty). And damage is only 1d6 (1st level monk). Note that this character is getting fewer flurry attacks, at lower bonuses, and for vastly lower damage output, which is appropriate for only 1 monk level. The only questionable assumption I'm making here is that with 1 monk level, you get only the equivalent of TWF with your flurry, not TWF+ITWF+GTWF -- but again, that seems highly logical.
C) Attacks unarmed at +12/+7/+2 for 1d3 (no flurry, but can take Two-Weapon Fighting feat chain to attack with both hands).
All of the above seem fairly straightforward and common sense to me. A monk 10/fighter 10 flurrying at +8/+8, on the other hand, seems absurdly silly.
Now it has been a while since I have taken physics. But I seem to remember gravity was a force not energy. That it acted on objects across a distance with no intervening waves like light.
So unless something has changed and we can now DETECT gravity waves (which I think would be grand) you can not say that some part of gravity would go through said portal. Gravity as per last I remembered acted across a distance with no apparent medium. If it had detectable waves we could soon create artificial gravity which would be wonderful (Or annihilate us all).
Let me demonstrate the gravitic attraction of my monk's fist to your face...
This is one of the big present day questions in physics, but I think Takamonk's presentation is about the general thinking.
MONKS don't have teleport object.
Quite true, let's move on.
Does anyone know if they added any new weapons to the "flurry of blows" list, and does anyone know what they added as far as the bonus feats for monk?
Does anyone know if they added any new weapons to the "flurry of blows" list, and does anyone know what they added as far as the bonus feats for monk?
I think it likely that the "Greater X" combat maneuver feats got added to the bonus feat lists. Nimble Moves maybe... other than that, no ideas.
I don't know that the flurry weapons will have changed - it's seems a very touchy subject that would be easier to leave alone. I really think the option at all is only for monks who *really* need to use a weapon - like to bypass DR or fighting babaus.
I understand that about the flurry of blows, it is a touchy subject. I was just wondering since in the pathfinder campaign setting they have different monks with different weapon specialties.
In reference to my previous post where I went through a lot of style basics with you guys; I think I just had what Einstein died from--a stroke of genius. If someone were to say give up the bonus feats that a monk gets, you would be able to insert the style they are trained in. That is to say that you would have a very small, but very powerful feat list (with some specialized ones included) that is individualized for each style (once selected you can't go back). Is there any feedback on this idea you guys? Feel free to email me: samauri.jack@gmail.com
In reference to my previous post where I went through a lot of style basics with you guys; I think I just had what Einstein died from--a stroke of genius. If someone were to say give up the bonus feats that a monk gets, you would be able to insert the style they are trained in. That is to say that you would have a very small, but very powerful feat list (with some specialized ones included) that is individualized for each style (once selected you can't go back). Is there any feedback on this idea you guys? Feel free to email me: samauri.jack@gmail.com
What I think you're describing is what has been done with monks since day 1. A certain selection of bonus feats which are meant to call to mind a particular style of martial arts: crane, monkey, tiger, etc.
In reference to my previous post where I went through a lot of style basics with you guys; I think I just had what Einstein died from--a stroke of genius. If someone were to say give up the bonus feats that a monk gets, you would be able to insert the style they are trained in. That is to say that you would have a very small, but very powerful feat list (with some specialized ones included) that is individualized for each style (once selected you can't go back). Is there any feedback on this idea you guys? Feel free to email me: samauri.jack@gmail.com
Actually, check out this from SRD/Unearthed Arcana: Monk Fighting Styles
Sort of the same thing you're talking about.
Flurry is a class ability just like sneak attack.
Which is why Rogues can only use their rogue levels to determine BAB for sneak attacks. Of course. So if you have twelve levels of fighter and one of rogue, when you want to make a sneak attack you only count your +0 for the rogue level.
Clearly this isn't absurd.
Flurry is a class ability just like sneak attack.
Which is why Rogues can only use their rogue levels to determine BAB for sneak attacks. Of course. So if you have twelve levels of fighter and one of rogue, when you want to make a sneak attack you only count your +0 for the rogue level.
Clearly this isn't absurd.
And to take it a step further, if you have levels of both rogue and assassin, your sneak attack dice stack; you don't have to choose which class to apply them from. And if you have BAB from monk and BAB from druid, for example, it would seem that your BAB should stack as well.
Majuba:
I was trying to go more along the lines of the actual styles "unseen eye" is not a real style: monkey, crane, mantis, eagle, northern fist, southern fist, tai chi, golden snake, pa kua, hsing i...these are all styles. Additionally, it would be nice to include some additional tables for random effects for the monk since most blows strike at pretty severe pressure points.
Majuba:
I was trying to go more along the lines of the actual styles "unseen eye" is not a real style: monkey, crane, mantis, eagle, northern fist, southern fist, tai chi, golden snake, pa kua, hsing i...these are all styles.
OK I'm with you. So you call your style one of those and choose appropriate feats. Where is the problem exactly?
Additionally, it would be nice to include some additional tables for random effects for the monk since most blows strike at pretty severe pressure points.
I think this is what Stunning Fist does actually. Have you even read the monk write-up? :P
I think this is what Stunning Fist does actually. Have you even read the monk write-up? :P
Additionally, it would be nice to include some additional tables for random effects for the monk since most blows strike at pretty severe pressure points.
Or hit up the splat books: Complete warrior had several such feats, and players handbook 2 had a couple more.
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OK I'm with you. So you call your style one of those and choose appropriate feats. Where is the problem exactly?Majuba:
I was trying to go more along the lines of the actual styles "unseen eye" is not a real style: monkey, crane, mantis, eagle, northern fist, southern fist, tai chi, golden snake, pa kua, hsing i...these are all styles.
Some of those "styles" are clearly inspired by real world styles anyway. "Hand and Foot" is karate, "Passive Way" is aikido, "Overwhelming Attack" is tae kwon do, etc.
I guess the two that I think are massively under represented are monkey and pa kua: they both involve "tumbling" around your opponent in VERY close proximity and catching your opponent off guard because of it. There is a fair amount of "sensory" training involved in the pa kua forms (not going to go into it: it would literally take multiple books to accurately describe what exactly it is you are doing, and it's easier to show anyway) where, when done correctly, it seems to your opponent you have simply teleported behind them, and it even works in hallways. Which is why I say that Spring Attack is not really accurate for it, and it doesn't work against multiple opponents the way pa kua and monkey do. It would be different if it was still as easy for monks to pull off tumbling through and around opponents as it used to be, but Pathfinder made it MUCH harder.
Although I do see some room for lots of encounter balance issues - gone is the day of the solo NPC mage challenging the party. Monk dimension doors, grapples, and waits for his slow buddies to bop up there and administer the coup de grace - if they didn't just break out the mess kits and the portable campfire to roast up some weenies while they let the monk choke out that arch-mage villain.
This was in the first response and I'm amazed that no one corrected it.
This isn't legal. Dimension door ends your turn after it's used, and Abundant Step exactly duplicates dimension door except to make it a move action. Thus, the villain would get a round to react to the monk suddenly appearing next to him.
As far as the dimention door ability, it pales in comparison to the Empty Body ability. Not only do you limit the mage's casting ability while you are etherial (can only use abjuration spells, if I remember correctly, to hit something etherial), but you can move in ANY DIRECTION without penalty (again, if i remember correctly) which means a monk could activate boots of haste, pop into etherial, and make a charging gapple attack in which he pops out of etherial just as he hits the mage (see Jumper for details ;P).
As far as the dimention door ability, it pales in comparison to the Empty Body ability.
By 19th level, spellcasters are doing 10 awesome things before breakfast without even breaking a sweat. :-)
I guess the two that I think are massively under represented are monkey and pa kua: they both involve "tumbling" around your opponent in VERY close proximity and catching your opponent off guard because of it. There is a fair amount of "sensory" training involved in the pa kua forms (not going to go into it: it would literally take multiple books to accurately describe what exactly it is you are doing, and it's easier to show anyway) where, when done correctly, it seems to your opponent you have simply teleported behind them, and it even works in hallways. Which is why I say that Spring Attack is not really accurate for it, and it doesn't work against multiple opponents the way pa kua and monkey do. It would be different if it was still as easy for monks to pull off tumbling through and around opponents as it used to be, but Pathfinder made it MUCH harder.
Should be a simple matter to substitute "Improved Feint" as one of the feat options, and possibly Skill Focus (Acrobatics) to handle the tumbling difficulty.
And to take it a step further, if you have levels of both rogue and assassin, your sneak attack dice stack; you don't have to choose which class to apply them from. And if you have BAB from monk and BAB from druid, for example, it would seem that your BAB should stack as well.
Flurry is a class ability just like sneak attack.
Which is why Rogues can only use their rogue levels to determine BAB for sneak attacks. Of course. So if you have twelve levels of fighter and one of rogue, when you want to make a sneak attack you only count your +0 for the rogue level.
Clearly this isn't absurd.
A) The preview don't talk about BAB from other classes stacking with monk levels.
B) Assassin:
"Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus."
Here it's specifically say the sneak attack stack.
C) Flyrry is not a class feature for the fighter, druid or any other class but the monk. Sneak attack is a class feature of the Assassin.
A) The preview don't talk about BAB from other classes stacking with monk levels.
C) Flyrry is not a class feature for the fighter, druid or any other class but the monk.
Both true, but of course, Base Attack Bonus *is* a class feature of.. well every class.
Base Attack Bonus: Add the base attack bonus acquired for each class to get the character's base attack bonus.
So: "the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows" + "Add the BAB for each class." = Monk Level + BAB from other classes.
This is a basic concept of 3rd edition.
So, what's the best Amulet of Might Fists bonus?
+1 or flaming are good.. sure..
But how about Spell Storing?
So, what's the best Amulet of Might Fists bonus?
+1 or flaming are good.. sure..
But how about Spell Storing?
Hm... I would suggest the following:
Axiomatic (might as well get a +2 and 2d6 damage when you can) or holy (same reason), Wounding (make those fortitude saves harder so you can stun them, et al), Merciful (nonlethal damage as long as you drop them you can kill them later), Vicious (more damage is good damage).
I'm really not fond of the flaming and such. Generally they are a waste since most monsters have resistances that these abilities simply won't get over. Keen might be worthwhile, having more crits means more dice which means more damage.
Maybe Throwing and Returning? LOL!!!
"This amulet will boomerang your fists!!!!"
Axiomatic (might as well get a +2 and 2d6 damage when you can) or holy (same reason), Wounding (make those fortitude saves harder so you can stun them, et al),
Merciful, Vicious, Keen
+2 ones:
Axiomatic and Holy don't give +2, just +2d6 (Bane does both).Wounding is a great idea
+1 ones:
Merciful would be good for a particular character type, but for some reason I just don't see it for a typical monk. Maybe because they already have the option of dealing non-lethal or lethal.
Vicious is decent, depending on the monk's AC - they're not super-healers or super-hitpoints so dealing yourself damage is slightly iffy.
Can't keen unarmed strike - bludgeoning, but would be good for claws on something - low crit range/multiplier limits that though.
A.I.: ... you're hilarious :)
As far as the dimention door ability, it pales in comparison to the Empty Body ability.By 19th level, spellcasters are doing 10 awesome things before breakfast without even breaking a sweat. :-)
Please stop comparing the monk to full casters, in particular at the higher levels. The big problem with comparing hypothetical characters is they are just that. "Oh you can do damage, well my caster can do XXX damage..." you have hypothetical access to every spell in the book. In real games it's nowhere near that lopsided because the casters have to either put their focus somewhere or they can do something once a day then they are done.
Even so, I'm not trying to suggest that high level monks kick high level wizard's asses because... there has never been balance between casters and non-casters in the game, in particular at high levels. Jason/ Paizo couldn't have changed that without seriously breaking compatibility and they quite clearly did not want to do that.
So a more reasonable question is did they make the Monk a playable class across all levels of the game? In particular compared to the other non-reality altering classes?
I am still a little iffy on the damage versus DR question but in general I think yeah.
Please stop comparing the monk to full casters, in particular at the higher levels. The big problem with comparing hypothetical characters is they are just that. "Oh you can do damage, well my caster can do XXX damage..." you have hypothetical access to every spell in the book. In real games it's nowhere near that lopsided because the casters have to either put their focus somewhere or they can do something once a day then they are done.
The monk chooses feats; the caster chooses spells (and has more of them to choose than the monk has feats). If they both choose to focus in the same areas -- and the caster can still do everything the monk can do, except better -- then it's a perfectly valid "apples to apples" comparison and holds water.
I reject the premise that casters should always outperform non-casters at higher levels because "that's just the way it's supposed to be." If backwards compatibility prevents that, it should be kicked to the curb.
I reject the premise that casters should always outperform non-casters at higher levels because "that's just the way it's supposed to be." If backwards compatibility prevents that, it should be kicked to the curb.
I suggested exactly this during the beta playtest and both Paizo and quite a few very vocal people disagreed with me.
I'm not suggesting you are wrong, rather that you are beating a dead horse. If you were expecting otherwise once it was established that compatibility was a priority then you should have realized the result could never significantly alter the balance between the classes.
Please stop comparing the monk to full casters, in particular at the higher levels.As far as the dimention door ability, it pales in comparison to the Empty Body ability.By 19th level, spellcasters are doing 10 awesome things before breakfast without even breaking a sweat. :-)
That was my subtle way of suggesting that people should focus on what the monk does that makes him special, rather than focusing on what the monk does that's not particularly unique.
Moving quickly, dimension door-ing and turning ethereal are great abilities, but not particularly unique to the monk, IMO.
Moving quickly, dimension door-ing and turning ethereal are great abilities, but not particularly unique to the monk, IMO.
Yeah I suppose you are right. But... casters can do pretty much everything, what unique thing can any class do that casters can't in some way?
Moving quickly, dimension door-ing and turning ethereal are great abilities, but not particularly unique to the monk, IMO.Yeah I suppose you are right. But... casters can do pretty much everything, what unique thing can any class do that casters can't in some way?
True however they are supernatural which means they come with some side benefits that way too. Beyond that yes a caster can do everything... once each, given enough time. The monk can do everything he can do at anytime and repeatedly in one day. Casters have lots of versitility over an infinite time span. But you move them back down to the finite level (the one which people play at, one day at a time with 1~3(ish) actions a round) and they suffer for lack of time.
The real quality of the monk can't be found in his parts though -- it's the combined package that makes him work.
yes many character could move fast, yes several characters can get multiple attacks, probably doing more damage, others can heal themselves, or move vast distances with a standard action (or across planar boundaries). Good save throws can be had, as can evasion and other immunities.
But the monk takes all these things, adds in the ability to have a great AC, and still has spell resistance.
His damage dice are very large and can easily get bigger with a little tinkering. Plus he has a nice amount of skill points to help all this out.
Like the bard it's not the direct focus but the diffusion of abilities that helps the monk really pull his weight.
1. Beyond that yes a caster can do everything... once each, given enough time. The monk can do everything he can do at anytime and repeatedly in one day.
2. and still has spell resistance.
1. Note true. Most of the nifty monk abilities (self-haste, etherealness, etc.) suck up ki points from a very limited pool. A sorcerer can potential be ethereal, etc. MUCH more often than the monk, and still have leftover abilities.
2. SR is a terrible trap unless the rules governing it are drastically changed. If the monk keeps it up, his allies can't heal him or buff him during combat; if he lowers it to let them do so, he might as well not have it.Re: BAB and HD, compare the monk to, say, a dragon bloodline battle sorcerer of equal level. They have equal HD and equal or near-equal unarmed damage. The monk can move faster... until the sorcerer can fly. Both get bonus feats and abilities. But the sorcerer gets many more powers (even at -1/level), and can use them more times per day. What the monk gets are more skill points (a major big deal in campaigns I run, but irrelevant in more combat-focused ones), better AC (unless the sorcerer takes mage armor), and a better flurry at levels 6+.
Again that's not all the monk is though, he can heal himself too, he can teleport himself too, and he has the AC also. The sorcerer might be able to teleport around as much as the monk, but he also doesn't have the "infinite versatility" of the wizard either. Yes if a sorcerer branches out then he is no longer a sorcerer -- he is a dragon disciple. Completely different animal and not 100% fool proof either. Like I said before it's the complete character.
Yes the monk can't heal every round or teleport every round for the entire day, but he can do it a lot, and he still has many other things that he doesn't need time to activate. My point again is the complete class, not the individual nitpicking that adds up.
Half your class level + Wisdom mod + 4 per feat you put into it. You can quite easily have 12~18 uses just at tenth level with only single feat burned to hit the top of that, and by doing so you help your AC too, as well as several good skills.
I'm not saying the monk is perfect, but he is no where near a weak little useless wuss that should be left at home that people are trying to make him out to be.
stuff
Flurry = BAB from other clases + monk levels? We will hopefully know on the 13 of augusti....so time will tell.
Moving quickly, dimension door-ing and turning ethereal are great abilities, but not particularly to the monk, IMO.
The combination of it all is indeed unique.
Re: BAB and HD, compare the monk to, say, a dragon bloodline battle sorcerer of equal level. They have equal HD and equal or near-equal unarmed damage. The monk can move faster... until the sorcerer can fly. Both get bonus feats and abilities. But the sorcerer gets many more powers (even at -1/level), and can use them more times per day. What the monk gets are more skill points (a major big deal in campaigns I run, but irrelevant in more combat-focused ones), better AC (unless the sorcerer takes mage armor), and a better flurry at levels 6+.
The HD is not equal
The BAB is not equalThe damage is equal only at some of the lower levels and the bloodline claws do not gain additional attacks for a high BAB.
I say skill points are relevant in combat-focused campaigns. Especially the one the monks has. Also more skills point mean he can dropp his int.
The bonus feat he gets also mean he can dump his int.
The fighter lobby has been complaining about lack of skills point and the prerequisites on the Combat Expertise feats and other feats that have the int 13 prereq. So it's odd you, of all people, say it's no big deal.
What I don't like about the Claw ablility is that they at 5:th level are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. But perhaps that has changed in the final.
The monk has to have 1 point in his Ki pool Which strike me as a bit unfair.
Is the monk good enough? I don't know. I guess I have to play one when the final comes. But It looks like the monk and bard perhaps are the weakest classes if we talk about doing damage. But they might have other things going for them.
Also, now the monk can be a scout, since he can find and disarm traps. And that's cool. A good wis and dex score helps. And they usually have both.
Edit: add Combat Reflexes and a reach weapon and have some fun.
He can stil use his feet or elbows to flurry :-)
The HD is not equal. The BAB is not equal
They are. Go back and read the SRD battle sorcerer again.
Remember you can ALWAYS lower your own spell resistance at will (at least that was the case in 3.5), which means your allies can still effect you with spells--assuming you want them to.
Remember you can ALWAYS lower your own spell resistance at will (at least that was the case in 3.5), which means your allies can still effect you with spells--assuming you want them to.
You still have to pick raised/lowered, though; it never acts as a selective filter. So if you lower it for a round for your allies, your enemies can affect you equally well until you have a chance to raise it again the next round ("Look, the cleric just healed him! Blast away, boys!").