Takamonk, you got the monk going 600' as a move action. Running is a full round action. If I missed something somewhere let me know. I can't figure it out.
On another note on haste... I've been wondering, does haste or a boots of striding and springing stack with the Monks speed? They are all considered enhancement bonuses so I was wondering if those would stack.
Perhaps this is my misinterpretation.
To put things in perspective. Two move actions at 30' in a round (60' in 6 seconds) is 6.8 mph. This is a trot. 4x this is 27.3 mph. Marice Green holds the world record for 26.7 mph for a sprint.
2x this (4x base speed) is 13.6mph which corresponds to a mile in 4 minutes and 24 seconds.
So, the latter sounds decently realistic for a overweight mage running away from a terrasque in the form of a sprint, so I'm going to concede my misinterpretation.
I think the rule could be better clarified, though. You run at 5x your normal speed instead of 4x your normal speed, and my normal speed is two move actions a round.
However, it really doesn't matter. While I DO have access to an 11' table, I typically do not have access to an 11' map on which to run.
It is somewhat amusing, though, that a 20th level monk can almost keep up with a 7th level dimension door wand.
So what you're saying is, he could run a mile in just a little over 8 rounds? About 50 seconds? Are you kidding me?
Next thing you're gonna tell me is he can jump the Grand Canyon....STANDING STILL!:)
Sadly, the narrowest region is about 1800 ft. Abundant step only goes to about 800' at 20th level, unless you allow CL bonuses on ioun stones stack and allow a monk to benefit from it.
I thought Ioun stone bonuses were always untyped and stacked? I had a player start investing everything he could into those, until people started just smacking them out of the air.
I have another question on the Monk, regarding the new Power Attack.
Since we have now the full rules for Power Attack (from Amiri's Preview), we now know that P.A. is based on the BaB of the character.
"Finally, there is Power Attack, which grants a +2 bonus on damage for a –1 penalty on attack rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 beyond +4, the bonus to damage increases by +2 and the penalty increase by –1. Wielding a two-handed weapon increases the damage by 50%, whereas off-hand weapons get only half the damage bonus."
Now, my question is, what is the value a Monk can use for using Power Attack with Flurry of Blows ?
1) Since the Monk's BaB is based on 3/4 HD progression (like that of the Cleric), the maximum value a Monk can use is -4 hit/+8 damage (maximum BaB= +15, so P.A. from BaB +12 to +15)
or
2) Since the Monk uses the Fighter's BaB when Flurrying, he can P.A. for a maximum of -6hit/+12 damage at 20th (but only when using Flurry of Blows, otherwise he uses the formula above when not Flurrying)
I think the right formula is the 1), but I can see that even 2) can be reasonable...
I thought Ioun stone bonuses were always untyped and stacked? I had a player start investing everything he could into those, until people started just smacking them out of the air.
The ones that are untyped generally don't stack because they are from the same source. However some of the Ioun stones are typed (the stat enhancers are all enhancement), an the competence one stacks with other competence bonuses so it would stack with itself (iirc).
An 18th level Monk, 1st level human Barb, who takes every feat but one (10) as Fleet (not counting bonus monk feats, Run on the other), would have a movement of:
30 base + 60 Monk + 10 Barb + 50 Fleet + 20 ki point = 170 ft
and run 650 ft per round (that's 130 squares, or almost 11 ft, over twice the length/width of my table.)Lovely :)
Actually, 170 * 5 = 850 ft.
Meanwhile, a 12th level wizard yawns as he breezes by the monk riding on a Phantom Steed.
:-/
Meanwhile, a 12th level wizard yawns as he breezes by the monk riding on a Phantom Steed.
Or moves 120 miles in 6 seconds using teleport
(= 20 miles/sec x 60 sec/min x 60 min/hr = 72,000 mph)Oh, wait, he can take a move action first! 120 miles and 30 feet in 6 seconds.
They don't stack since they're enhancement bonuses.That's what I thought but I was hoping I was wrong. Is there anything out there that will stack with his speed? I don't know of anything offhand.
Thanks!
In addition to those already mentioned there is a feat Speed of Thought from the SRD which a monk can qualify for by taking Wild Talent. Add a +10 insight bonus to speed.
Doug
Meanwhile, a 12th level wizard yawns as he breezes by the monk riding on a Phantom Steed.Or moves 120 miles in 6 seconds using teleport
(= 20 miles/sec x 60 sec/min x 60 min/hr = 72,000 mph)
Oh, wait, he can take a move action first! 120 miles and 30 feet in 6 seconds.
Of course, he's still riding his phantom steed and he can cast a spell while his mount is running (the DC is 21 -- trivial to pass with a "take 10"). So actually he can move 120 miles and 480 feet in 6 seconds. ;-)
Actually, 170 * 5 = 850 ft.
An 18th level Monk, 1st level human Barb, who takes every feat but one (10) as Fleet (not counting bonus monk feats, Run on the other), would have a movement of:
30 base + 60 Monk + 10 Barb + 50 Fleet + 20 ki point = 170 ft
and run 650 ft per round (that's 130 squares, or almost 11 ft, over twice the length/width of my table.)Lovely :)
Doh!... thanks.
850 ft, 170 squares, 14 ft. 2 in.
Also +56 to Jump from speed, +18 from class, +19 ranks, +3 class skill, +15 ring of greater jumping, +1 ioun stone (pale green? - all checks), +12 (switching ki point from speed to Jumping) = +124.
Take 10 = 134 Jump check, or 67 ft standing jump.
Now, per the rules somewhere (perhaps a sage advice), you clear about 1/4 of the distance in height, so that's 16.75 ft. Laws of Gravity state that your distance fallen at any point is 16ft times seconds squared (your *rate* of falling is 32ft/sec per second). That means (regardless of distance) it takes about 1 second to fall from the height of the jump, and by inversion it takes about 1 second to get to that height (ignoring air drag).
So the 67ft jump is in about 2 seconds, or a speed of about 32ft/second, relative to the ground.
So if you stood at the edge of the grand canyon, and jumped out, and activated Abundant Step to go 800 ft straight up, you would move 226 ft during the 7 seconds it takes to fall back down, for a total distance of 293 ft before passing below the edge.
If instead you Abundant Step'd at a 45 degree angle, traveling 565 ft both up and out, you would fall for 5.9 seconds and go an additional 190 ft, for a total distance of 823 ft., still shorter than jumping and moving straight towards the other edge, and you still plummet to your death...
Or do you? Monks do have slow fall. The 5000 ft depth at the narrowest point will take 17.6 seconds to fall, resulting in 565 ft more of travel (pure chance matching the above calculation), making maximum distance before impact = 800 ab. step + 565 ft falling + 67 jump = 1432 ft. Nope, splat.
*However* - if instead you gave the monk a running start, the falling/moving distances will be doubled, or 800 + 1130 + 134 = 2064 ft, or just a bit further than the minimum, allowing you to slow fall to the bottom safely.
Majuba you forgot your Luck Stone for an extra +1 ;D
Next question: Does Abundant step preserve motion?
Interesting Fact: Abundant Step says it works just like Dimension Door -- Dimension Door states that after using it your action is ended, regardless of the fact you might have a move action left (with the spell).
"After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn." Page 219 Dimension Door Spell, Pathfinder Beta
So, I've been looking at the rules for monk recently in combination with Ki Focus magic weapons: Can you use stunning fist through these items as well?
Teleport Object, with reguards to the momentum preserved question I know for a fact does (which by the way is, without a doubt--using a little set-up--the most powerful offensive spell in the game). You can create a one room tower in game and set up 2 portals in that tower that link to each other--one at the ceiling, one at the floor; next, throw in pebbles, and PRESTO: teleport pebbles in that have reached well beyond terminal velocity (you can get kind of ridiculous with it in that if you were to throw in much larger rocks at first, teleporting them out would create more of a vacuum for the pebbles to fall through as air does not occupy the space the rocks occupied in the tower (assuming air tight). Meaning: Teleport Object = Rail Gun = Tarrasque guts everywhere.
So, I've been looking at the rules for monk recently in combination with Ki Focus magic weapons: Can you use stunning fist through these items as well?
Yes, that's pretty much the point of them :)
Abraham: I left out the Luck stone so it would divide evenly :) As for Dimension Door/Step - I don't think falling counts as an action... :) Whether it should preserve momentum? Probably not, but it's fun to work out.
Majuba you forgot your Luck Stone for an extra +1 ;D
Next question: Does Abundant step preserve motion?
Interesting Fact: Abundant Step says it works just like Dimension Door -- Dimension Door states that after using it your action is ended, regardless of the fact you might have a move action left (with the spell).
"After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn." Page 219 Dimension Door Spell, Pathfinder Beta
I imagine there were too many quickened spells used in conjunction with Dimension Door, allowing many nasty things to occur, or even using dimension door in a quickened fashion?
It makes it a little tough to use offensively as a monk, though. It's basically a monk's get out of jail free card when they go running in too far, as they are known to do.
Meanwhile, a 12th level wizard yawns as he breezes by the monk riding on a Phantom Steed.
:-/
Fortunately, the monk gets a 600 round head start on the mage.
So, let me get this straight: if a hasted monk were to leap into a pack of enemies and he had a Ki Focus +4 Spiked Chain and do a whirlwind attack with stunning when he had downed a potion of True Stike the round before--he would not only hit everybody in a 10 foot radius but get a probable chance to stun them as well!?!?!? The way whirlwind attack reads it's only one attack in the beta. It's a freaking walking, reusable stun grenade. If you do end up being able to cause the exhausted state through stun, you could wait until just before his action to do all of this, run in attack, stun, next turn attack again go for exhausted, jump out of there, mage drops fireball with them at -3 penalty to the save. The team tactics on that are just brilliant with possibilities.
So, I've been looking at the rules for monk recently in combination with Ki Focus magic weapons: Can you use stunning fist through these items as well?
Teleport Object, with reguards to the momentum preserved question I know for a fact does (which by the way is, without a doubt--using a little set-up--the most powerful offensive spell in the game). You can create a one room tower in game and set up 2 portals in that tower that link to each other--one at the ceiling, one at the floor; next, throw in pebbles, and PRESTO: teleport pebbles in that have reached well beyond terminal velocity (you can get kind of ridiculous with it in that if you were to throw in much larger rocks at first, teleporting them out would create more of a vacuum for the pebbles to fall through as air does not occupy the space the rocks occupied in the tower (assuming air tight). Meaning: Teleport Object = Rail Gun = Tarrasque guts everywhere.
How do you get them beyond terminal velocity?
So, let me get this straight: if a hasted monk were to leap into a pack of enemies and he had a Ki Focus +4 Spiked Chain and do a whirlwind attack with stunning when he had downed a potion of True Stike the round before--he would not only hit everybody in a 10 foot radius but get a probable chance to stun them as well!?!?!?
No, you can only use it on one attack per round, and Whirlwind Attack gives you multiple attacks.
Discussions like this (terminal velocity, etc.) are exactly why magic is the base of my game world. Not science. Somebody always wants to make gunpowder, forge better steel, invent the steam engine, beat the system using a modern knowledge of physics / chemistry / biology etc. My world looks like the "real world" but the underpinnings are different...
Discussions like this (terminal velocity, etc.) are exactly why magic is the base of my game world. Not science. Somebody always wants to make gunpowder, forge better steel, invent the steam engine, beat the system using a modern knowledge of physics / chemistry / biology etc. My world looks like the "real world" but the underpinnings are different...
Mine includes a physics degree holding player, so he just tells us when something is working right.
I thought Ioun stone bonuses were always untyped and stacked? I had a player start investing everything he could into those, until people started just smacking them out of the air.The ones that are untyped generally don't stack because they are from the same source. However some of the Ioun stones are typed (the stat enhancers are all enhancement), an the competence one stacks with other competence bonuses so it would stack with itself (iirc).
What do you mean? Typed Ioun stones don't stack. Especially not those with enhancement bonus. Or did I read you wrong?
The fighter will catch up since the monk apparenlty gets bonus feats at 1 2 and 6 (by 8th level) while the fighter gets bonuses at 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8. So by 10th level I suspect the fighter will be higher (and have more options) and at 20th will have a signifigant lead.
So while at certain levels Monks have more feats then fighters, they never have more free feats and fighters will catch up rather quickly.
You're right that fighter's catch up and then exceed, however:
Monks get bonus feats at 1,2, and every four after (6,10,14,18). So monk and fighter are tied at 8th, they will be tied until fighter pulls ahead at 12th level, and then again at 16th and 20th. However, if you count the "virtual" two-weapon fighting feats that Monk gets, they are actually even in total (timing uncertain).
You forget a fighter gets these feats:
..and fighters also get
The the total list is:
Bonus feat - fighter
Shield Proficiency
Tower Shield Proficiency
Armor Proficiency, Light
Armor Proficiency, Medium
Armor Proficiency, Heavy
Simple Weapon Proficiency
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Axe, throwing
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Hammer, light
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Handaxe
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Kukri
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Pick,
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Sap
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shield, light
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Spiked armor
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Spiked shield,
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Starknife
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Sword, short
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Battleaxe
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Flail
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Longsword
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Pick, heavy
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Rapier
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Scimitar
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shield, heavy
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Spiked shield,
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Trident
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Warhammer
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Falchion
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Glaive
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Greataxe
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Greatclub
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Flail, heavy
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Greatsword
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Guisarme
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Halberd
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Lance
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Ranseur
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Scythe
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Longbow
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Longbow, composite
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shortbow
Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shortbow, composite
How many feats they get is a matter of how you count them.
Edit: Ninja'd
;-)
OK so a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry for teh same number and base to hit as a Monk 1 Fighter 11. I see no problem with that as the Monk 11 will hit signifigantly harder.[...]
No
a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry as a monk 11a Monk 1 Fighter 11 would flyrry as a monk level 1.
Edit
AndOK so a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry for teh same number and base to hit as a Monk 1 Fighter 11. I see no problem with that as the Monk 11 will hit signifigantly harder.[...]
[...]
Monk 1 = BAB + 0
Ftr 10 = +10
Total = +10, flurry +8/+8/+3Monk 11 = BAB +8, flurry +8/+8/+3 (no penalty). Final will be +8/+8/+3/+3.[...]
No
a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry as a monk 11a Monk 1 Fighter 11 would flyrry as a monk level 1. So a Monk1/fighter 11 would suck.
No
a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry as a monk 11
a Monk 1 Fighter 11 would flyrry as a monk level 1. So a Monk1/fighter 11 would suck.
I believe you will be shown to be incorrect when the final rules come out. Again, I suspect the final rules will be written to look like the Beta monk's Maneuver Training ability which explicitly clarifies how everything stacks.
But neither of us have any proof at this point.
I believe you will be shown to be incorrect when the final rules come out. Again, I suspect the final rules will be written to look like the Beta monk's Maneuver Training ability which explicitly clarifies how everything stacks.But neither of us have any proof at this point.
Yes you may be right. I just thought "This system is revised from the 3.5 version to work using mechanics similar to the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, but the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows." was pretty clear. It didn't say monk level and/or other class levels.
We have to wait and see. Until then, tomorrow we will enjoy the rogue ;-)
Well, it appears that you're right...
but it isn't still settled. If we assume flurry=two-weapon fighting, then we could just assume that the monk levels contribute to total BAB stacks with the rest. I don't see why not. It would be silly.
Easy to houserule it in every case, however.
OK so a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry for teh same number and base to hit as a Monk 1 Fighter 11. I see no problem with that as the Monk 11 will hit signifigantly harder.[...]
No
a Fighter 1 monk 11 would flurry as a monk 11
a Monk 1 Fighter 11 would flyrry as a monk level 1.In beta that would be absolutely correct.
However from the preview of the monk which makes the monk flurry similar (and not stackable) with dual wield I believe that has changed.
check out the quote I used. It was from the final. Ninja'd
check out the quote I used. It was from the final. Ninja'd
I do not believe that that's a quote from the final. It's just Jason's phraseology in the blog. We'll find out in a few weeks if I'm right.
check out the quote I used. It was from the final. Ninja'dI do not believe that that's a quote from the final. It's just Jason's phraseology in the blog. We'll find out in a few weeks if I'm right.
Well we can have a debate or not. If we do lets use the preview as a reference. If we don't, then we don't have to post anything.
I know I might be wrong, but from the facts at hand I haven't been proven wrong. Ninja'd
Well we can have a debate or not. If we do lets use the preview as a reference. If we don't, then we don't have to post anything.
I know I might be wrong, but from the facts at hand I haven't been proven wrong.
Using the preview as a reference does not mean parsing out Jason's words as an absolute literal interpretation of what is included in the Final with an extremely narrow interpretation of that.
For instance, "the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows." could be rephrased as "the new monk goes one step further and uses [the new monk]'s monk level as [the new monk]'s base attack bonus whenever [the new monk] uses flurry of blows." No reason to assume other classes would not stack with that.
And for the record, way back in this thread someone said something along the lines of "this is the first time that a monk's flurry has been *defined* has based on his monk level". That is not true - 3.0 Monk explicitly used *only* monk level to determine flurry attack progression (it was based on iterative attacks at every 3 instead of 5 BAB). But even then other classes BAB added to that.
Adding BAB and BSB and HP is the foundation of 3rd edition multiclassing, there is absolutely no chance it has been annulled for these purposes.
Ninja'd
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I just thought "(Rules Quote)" was pretty clear.
Right. And it's equally clear that the wizard's bonded item is intelligent, and is not a construct, because the Beta rules very clearly and specifically state that you can "enchant" it. Enchantment as a rule refers to one of the eight schools of magic; spells from that school can be of either the [charm] or the [compulsion] subtype -- both of which are specifically mind-affecting. Obviously what was intended was that you can imbue the bonded item with an enhancement bonus and/or convert it to a magical item, but the rules as written don't say that at all.
Kuma:
Terminal velocity is a product of wind/air resistance versus the surface area of the object, if there is no air in the tower, there is no resistance. Also, in eventuality, if you were to have a contained environment like that it would act as a particle accelerator would, with gravity being the only power source required. Even if you did have air in the tower, it would start moving at the same rate that the pebbles/rocks are, meaning constant acceleration of everything in the tower, meaning a constantly accelerating wind tunnel with shotgun shot in it.
As far as the stunning scenario:
The whirlwind attack supplies one attack that has the potential of hitting all opponents in your "engaged" area, according to the way the rule reads, as ruled by 5 independant gamers and 2 DM's without influence--all of whom are rules jockeys. If there is some additional material other than the beta that I'm not seeing please let me know (possible FAQ that I didn't find)
Well we can have a debate or not. If we do lets use the preview as a reference. If we don't, then we don't have to post anything.
I know I might be wrong, but from the facts at hand I haven't been proven wrong.Using the preview as a reference does not mean parsing out Jason's words as an absolute literal interpretation of what is included in the Final with an extremely narrow interpretation of that.
at the moment we have no other interpretation. You may say I'm wrong but this thread is about the final based on the preview. Saying I'm wrong just because we have not seen the final is not a good argument. I sure as h*ll don't make you or any other person right.
Ninja'dYou keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Teach me :-)
stuff
?
stuff?
Translation: "If you take D&D writing too literally, your brain will explode."
Translation: "If you take D&D writing too literally, your brain will explode."stuff?
LOL!!!!!!!!!! :-)
stuff?
Longer explanation:
The rules language in the Beta and previews is loose, inexact, and otherwise sloppy in many cases. For example:
Now draw the literal conclusion, based only on the letter of the rules, and not using creative interpretation, nor colloquial definitions. If the object can be enchanted, it is susceptable to mind-affecting spells. Therefore the bonded object must be intelligent!
Obviously it was NOT intended that an arcane bonded ring is an intelligent creature. In this case, Jason obviously meant "imbued with magical properties, or made into a magic item," but he used an informal, colloqual sense of "enchant" -- which makes the rules, literally-speaking, say something entirely different from what was intended. Therefore the Beta rules CANNOT be read literally.
QED.
Kuma:
Terminal velocity is a product of wind/air resistance versus the surface area of the object, if there is no air in the tower, there is no resistance. Also, in eventuality, if you were to have a contained environment like that it would act as a particle accelerator would, with gravity being the only power source required. Even if you did have air in the tower, it would start moving at the same rate that the pebbles/rocks are, meaning constant acceleration of everything in the tower, meaning a constantly accelerating wind tunnel with shotgun shot in it.
IIRC terminal velocity is the speed at which gravitic attraction and atmospheric drag cancel out and a falling bodies acceleration ceases allowing it to continue falling at a constant speed until impact. There is a column of "falling" air bearing down on each of us right now -- resulting in our current atmospheric pressure. It's the objects that mass more than atmospheric molecules you have to watch out for. Their damaging potential is a result of mass and velocity.
And if you want an object to fall without deviation from it's path down your vacuum portal system you had better insert it with scientific precision and shield it from the gravitic attraction exerted by the rest of the planet. Otherwise the path will deviate and it will, sooner or later, make contact with your structure with interesting results. Keeping particles in the "flight path" of a particle accelerator is accomplished by using an electromagnetic tunnel maintained in a vacuum (to avoid collisions and deviation caused by oppositely charged particles). Using modern scientific construction. The odd gods of the galaxy knows how you would accomplish that in a D&Desque society without modern scientific knowledge or tools... assuming the whole show has the same scientific underpinnings as our own universe... or why you'd bother when there are far easier ways to kill things.
Yeah, I just prefer to cast quasar as a spell. Much easier.
Using modern scientific construction. The odd gods of the galaxy knows how you would accomplish that in a D&Desque society without modern scientific knowledge or tools... assuming the whole show has the same scientific underpinnings as our own universe... or why you'd bother when there are far easier ways to kill things.
Quite.. isn't Teleport Object about the same level as Disintegrate, and do the same thing, with a lot bigger material component outlays?
Kuma:
Terminal velocity is a product of wind/air resistance versus the surface area of the object, if there is no air in the tower, there is no resistance. Also, in eventuality, if you were to have a contained environment like that it would act as a particle accelerator would, with gravity being the only power source required. Even if you did have air in the tower, it would start moving at the same rate that the pebbles/rocks are, meaning constant acceleration of everything in the tower, meaning a constantly accelerating wind tunnel with shotgun shot in it.IIRC terminal velocity is the speed at which gravitic attraction and atmospheric drag cancel out and a falling bodies acceleration ceases allowing it to continue falling at a constant speed until impact. There is a column of "falling" air bearing down on each of us right now -- resulting in our current atmospheric pressure. It's the objects that mass more than atmospheric molecules you have to watch out for. Their damaging potential is a result of mass and velocity.
And if you want an object to fall without deviation from it's path down your vacuum portal system you had better insert it with scientific precision and shield it from the gravitic attraction exerted by the rest of the planet. Otherwise the path will deviate and it will, sooner or later, make contact with your structure with interesting results. Keeping particles in the "flight path" of a particle accelerator is accomplished by using an electromagnetic tunnel maintained in a vacuum (to avoid collisions and deviation caused by oppositely charged particles). Using modern scientific construction. The odd gods of the galaxy knows how you would accomplish that in a D&Desque society without modern scientific knowledge or tools... assuming the whole show has the same scientific underpinnings as our own universe... or why you'd bother when there are far easier ways to kill things.
This is what I meant, more or less. I know how it works, I'm just saying I don't see any way to achieve your design, Mr. Stein.
...
On an unrelated note, if a lvl 20 character has 15 levels of fighter and 5 levels of monk, the flurry BAB should be 20. If a character has 15 levels of monk and 5 of rogue, it should be 18.
If their bonuses are instead 5 and 15, someone screwed up. I think the people at Paizo are rather good at working out the rules, so I'm going to guess they're not the ones who made the mistake.
Could they use some editing? Perhaps, wait until final.
Just to reiterate: No. A high level character is not going to have one of their major class abilities deliberately limited in such a way as to make it useless. Your BAB is a product of all your classes. I think it's pretty clear that the intent is to allow a monk to use their monk level as base attack instead of their normal BAB for monk levels. This should add to their BAB for all other levels as normal.
This is what happens when you refuse to just give monks a full BAB, Paizo. I can see it now, in ten years there are going to be people saying that a rogue can only use sneak attack once a round, and that a high level character can only flurry with a +7 BAB because he multiclassed.
This is what I meant, more or less. I know how it works,...
You just put it much more succinctly than me :)
stuff
and this does not prove me wrong.
A) if the languages in the beta was sloppy sometimes, it does not mean that all the beta suffered from sloppy languages.B)I used the preview a reference.
Don't answer me "No one here has read the final". Saying that to prove me wrong is just ad-hoc. It does not prove me wrong. This thread is not about the final. It's about what we think we know of the final based on the preview. That is. It's about the preview.
Again we are talking about a realm were things can be enchanted to be impervious to particular (pardon the pun) types of damage, in addition if you want it to be electrically charged all you need is a good lightning bolt or call lightning spell involved in shocking/shocking burst weapons. As far as the entrance of these particles, just wait until you have everything loaded before you create the bottom portal--everything will fall straight down. On top of that, I have a hard time believing that in a sealed environment where there is, in effect, no ground to stop it from succoumbing to the planets gravity entirely, that any atmosphereic "pressure" would build up since there is nothing to give it resistance (in eventuality). As far as accounting for all gravitational pulls on the tower itself, I offer you: the plumb-bob. Shows what is effectively straight down according to all gravitational pulls using only a string and a weight. Any further nay-saying you would like me to counter, or is one of my major "monsters" in game legitimate (she uses rods of teleport object)?
Again we are talking about a realm were things can be enchanted to be impervious to particular (pardon the pun) types of damage, in addition if you want it to be electrically charged all you need is a good lightning bolt or call lightning spell involved in shocking/shocking burst weapons. As far as the entrance of these particles, just wait until you have everything loaded before you create the bottom portal--everything will fall straight down. On top of that, I have a hard time believing that in a sealed environment where there is, in effect, no ground to stop it from succoumbing to the planets gravity entirely, that any atmosphereic "pressure" would build up since there is nothing to give it resistance (in eventuality). As far as accounting for all gravitational pulls on the tower itself, I offer you: the plumb-bob. Shows what is effectively straight down according to all gravitational pulls using only a string and a weight. Any further nay-saying you would like me to counter, or is one of my major "monsters" in game legitimate (she uses rods of teleport object)?
Honestly, I'm wondering how you make yourself a vacuum. I'm just not seeing a space that size being a perfect vacuum using medieval technology. I suppose you could do it with magic, like you suggest getting over several tech hurdles. Personally, I think the only way to have that kind of understanding of the forces at work would be to have levels in artificer. Wizard =/= scientist.
Just to reiterate: No. A high level character is not going to have one of their major class abilities deliberately limited in such a way as to make it useless. Your BAB is a product of all your classes. I think it's pretty clear that the intent is to allow a monk to use their monk level as base attack instead of their normal BAB for monk levels. This should add to their BAB for all other levels as normal.
This is what happens when you refuse to just give monks a full BAB, Paizo. I can see it now, in ten years there are going to be people saying that a rogue can only use sneak attack once a round, and that a high level character can only flurry with a +7 BAB because he multiclassed.
Well the same goes if you multiclass as ranger/druid (or wizard/sorcerer). You don't add ranger levels to cater level if you cast druid spells.
We are not taking BAB we are taking flurry. Flurry based on monk levels.