Monk's Ki Pool Extra Strike and Medusa's Wrath


General Discussion (Prerelease)


Hey all,

So my friends and I are starting up a new D&D campaign, and we've decided to give Pathfinder a go. Everyone is excited about finally playing 20 levels worth of the base classes without feeling like a doof.

I'm playing a monk! =D

So, my 10th level monk has decided to snag Medusa's Wrath - my companion will be a nice little wizard girl who will probably toss around a few status effects on my enemies, so being able to take advantage of that option seems good to me. My GM likes the feat too, but we had a question for the higher ups: Can the monk's ki pool ability to add an additional attack stack with the extra two attacks from Medusa's Wrath?

Mechanically, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't. But the wording is muddled between everything (and also if you take MW at face value, it's useless to a monk with flurry of blows anyway). Right now, we're leaning towards a 'no' just to keep my monk from making more unarmed strikes than a room full of taichi practitioners.

Thoughts from the experts? Appreciation in advance!


Jhared Smith wrote:

Hey all,

So my friends and I are starting up a new D&D campaign, and we've decided to give Pathfinder a go. Everyone is excited about finally playing 20 levels worth of the base classes without feeling like a doof.

I'm playing a monk! =D

So, my 10th level monk has decided to snag Medusa's Wrath - my companion will be a nice little wizard girl who will probably toss around a few status effects on my enemies, so being able to take advantage of that option seems good to me. My GM likes the feat too, but we had a question for the higher ups: Can the monk's ki pool ability to add an additional attack stack with the extra two attacks from Medusa's Wrath?

Mechanically, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't. But the wording is muddled between everything (and also if you take MW at face value, it's useless to a monk with flurry of blows anyway). Right now, we're leaning towards a 'no' just to keep my monk from making more unarmed strikes than a room full of taichi practitioners.

Thoughts from the experts? Appreciation in advance!

Although I'm far from being an expert, I would try to help you.

First of all, let's take a look at the feat description:

"As a full-attack action, make two additional unarmed strikes at your highest base attack bonus. All of your unarmed strikes must be made against a dazed, flatfooted, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, or unconscious foe."

The keyword here is 'full-attack action', which is different from a 'full-round action'. As a full-round action, in fact, you can take a full-attack action (which allows you to make iterative attacks). If the feat said 'as a full-round action, you can make a number of attacks equal to those of your full-attack action, plus two extra attacks at your highest BaB' then you could only make those attacks and nothing else. But this is not the case.

Let's see Flurry of Blows, then:
"When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, he may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table 4–8. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before his next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows."
So, clearly the case here is the same as above.

Now, can you mix two benefits from different features/feats/whatsoever in a 'full-attack action' ? Well, you can get both benefits from Power Attack and Combat Expertise if you want (see here the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Preview #2) - of course, you would have both penalties to your Hit Roll and perhaps it would not be a wise idea, but the fact is that you CAN if you want. So, it is safe to assume that you can mix and match Flurry of Blows and Medusa's Wrath, too. This is the key concept to keep in mind: if your GM doesn't want to allow this, it would be his right to do so, but nothing (by RAW) implies that.

If you can use Flurry of Blows in combination with M'sW, nothing would prevent you from using your Ki Pool points to have an extra attack.
"By spending 1 point from his ki pool, a monk can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack."
If you can use Flurry of Blows, you can also use this feature, too (provided you have spare Ki Points to use, of course).

So, basically, a high-level Monk (let's say a 15-level Monk) could make, on a dazed-stunned-paralyzed-etc. foe a full-attack action combining all these features for a grand total of 8 attacks, with a BaB of +11/+11/+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1. You can see a sample Monk made by me during the playtest here, if you want.

Just my 2c.


Unless bonuses say they don't stack (like a speeding weapon and haste) or are the same type they all stack.

Yes the monk can really get that many attacks... heck if someone hastes him he gets one more.

While you are at it grab Vital strike as soon as possible because you want to kill what you hit in that first round -- because if you don't it will notice you and will proceed to smack you back on the next action it gets...

Liberty's Edge

Abraham spalding wrote:
Yes the monk can really get that many attacks... heck if someone hastes him he gets one more.

He can get even more by taking 2-weapon fighting (normal, improved and greater) for even more attacks (though with the penalty).

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Roleplaying Game / General Discussion (Prerelease) / Monk's Ki Pool Extra Strike and Medusa's Wrath All Messageboards
Recent threads in General Discussion (Prerelease)
Druid / Monk?