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Todd, I love the book... but, well, the stat block editing was, shall we say, sub-par. I know I already complained about this over in the product discussion thread, but looking at the rest of them turned up more problems. There are errors, of one degree of significance or another, in all five of them.
Astradaemon
Melee - Bite damage should be 1d8+2 plus energy drain (Secondary Natural Attack)
Skills - Hide should be +20 (-4 size penalty)
ECOLOGY - Treasure entry is missing
Axiomite
Melee - longsword is missing its increased threat range - should be longsword +10/+5 (1d8+1/19-20)
Spell-Like Abilities - Order's Wrath ability should be listed as Empowered Order's Wrath
Skills - If Diplomacy is supposed to be maxed out, then it doesn't include the +2 synergy from 5+ ranks in Sense Motive - should be +19
If it is not maxed out and only has 10 ranks applied to it, then either its two other Knowledge skills should be +10 (5 ranks in each) or its Hide and Move Silently should be +11 (7 ranks in each) (9 Outsider HD = 12*8, plus 12*5 skill points, or 156. 10 fully developed skills = 120 points expended, leaving 36 remaining. For 2 Knowledges +11 with a 20 Int, that requires 2*6 or 12, plus 12 for Diplomacy, plus 2*8 for +12 Hide and Move Silently with a Dex of 20. 12 +12 +16 = 40, not 36.
Lurker in Light
AC - should be 18, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (does not include the +1 size bonus)
Skills - by my math, points expended as follows: Esc Art 7, Hide 5, Know (planes) 9, Listen 9, Move Sil 9, Search 9, Spot 9, Survival 7, Use Rope 4.
If Use Rope has 5 or more ranks, Escape Artist should be +11 (+13 escape from ropes), Use Rope should be +8 (+10 binding), and there are 4 points missing... somewhere. (6+3)*(6+2) = 72 skill points
Advancement - no favored class is given
Keketar Protean
Defensive Abilities - Freedom of Movement is mentioned but not detailed (as per the spell, dispellable, reusable?)
Melee - improved grab ability of the tail is mentioned but not detailed
ECOLOGY - whole section is missing
Vulpinal
Init - should be +10 (22 Dex +6 and Imp Init +4)
AC - should be touch AC 17 (Mage Armor does not add to touch AC)
hp - I think should be 44 (8*4.5+8)
Melee - claw attack should be +15 (+1 size bonus) and bite should be +10, 1d4 damage (1/2 of +1 from Str is +0)
Skills - Bluff 11, Concen 8, Hide 7, Jump 0, Know (any ONE, not any) 8, Know (arcana) 11, Know (planes) 11, Listen 11, Move Silently 11, Perform 11 (any ONE, not any, possibly should include +2 competence bonus from masterwork musical instrument), Search 8, Spell 4 (there's a +2 synergy from 5+ ranks in Know (arc)), Spot 11, Tumble 8 (means Jump should be +13 - +2 synergy from 5+ Tumble), Use Mag Dev 6
(8+3)*(8+4) = 132 points, 126 spent by my math. 6 more points, where?
* * * * *
At least this is what I saw looking over it. I probably did the skill math wrong, too.
EDIT: Yes, errata to my own errata. Axiomite's hp should be 67, not 68. 9*4.5+27 = 67.5, rounded down to 67. If I'm going to quibble about fairly insignificant stuff like 1 extra hp, then I figure I should quibble about my own quibbling.
The one thing I can explain away within that list was that I didn't write the original keketar stat block, and then it was radically reworked from that original anyway by James. The ecology section of the statblock was missing from the original, and it looks like it fell through the cracks when it switched hands a few times through its development.
I think there are bigger things to worry about.
Todd, no need to apologize. Creating stat blocks isn't easy (and I know this one wasn't yours). Checking stat blocks is tedious, especially when the designer doesn't show the math (it means the developer has to rebuild the whole thing from scratch to see if it adds up to the right numbers, and if the developer has to do that, what are we paying the designer for?).
None of these are game-breaking issues. And the Pathfinder RPG makes this a lot easier to build and check.
I'm guessing all these monsters will get redone when they get converted to PRPG rules anyhow... right? ;)
If they aren't, I'd be willing to write some conversion errata in an unofficial capacity if that would be alright.
On Page 33, Groetus is described as a demigod.. Per James Jacobs, on this date, that is not correct.
Groetus is a proper God in his own right.
On Page 33, Groetus is described as a demigod.. Per James Jacobs, on this date, that is not correct.
Groetus is a proper God in his own right.
At the time TGB went to print, I do not believe James had decided on the official power levels of all the deities.
On Page 33, Groetus is described as a demigod.. Per James Jacobs, on this date, that is not correct.
Groetus is a proper God in his own right.
What Sean said.
And I'm perfectly cool with Groetus being a full deity, which meshes well to be honest with the suggestions that he was an established member of an earlier, considerably alien pantheon.
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And I'm perfectly cool with Groetus being a full deity, which meshes well to be honest with the suggestions that he was an established member of an earlier, considerably alien pantheon.
Ooh, I love that sort of thing.
Back in my Realms days, I always had a fascination with Jergal, a forgotten pre-human diety who lingered on, long after the death of the (insectoid?) species that worshipped him.
There were also hints somewhere that Aerdrie Faenya was an ancient diety of a long-vanished race of avians, who had distant descendents among the aarakocra, and had only survived by adapting and taking followers among the 'new' elven peoples.
There are a small number of typos and small errors that will be fixed on the second printing. We are striving to make the changes to the PDF that will be available on the 13th. As we move along, there will undoubtedly be other changes and we will update the PDF on a regular basis and let people know when we do so they can download the updated PDF.
-Lisa
Lisa,
Can you say whether these errors affect gameplay or not, or are they largely just typos and format errors here and there? I know in my group there should be plenty of PFRPG copies going around, and I'd rather get some APs and wait and get a 2nd printing of the book if it'll fix a few quirks here and there.
Todd and Sean..
This is an errata thread. It's not a critique. You owe me no explanation.
The only reason it came up is that I asked if Groetus would ever be given stats due to his demigod status. James corrected the misunderstanding.
I'm just sharing the info.
Creative Director
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Also... I reserve the right to waffle and decide later that Groetus is a demigod.
My idea that he's a god is pretty much 100% fueled by the fact that he's the size of a small moon and stats for something like that would be stupid. So by making him a god, we avoid that problem.
BUT If Groetus is in fact not the moon and that's just his vehicle or shell or something and he's something smaller inside it... maybe he CAN be a demigod.
In any case, the word CAN be used back and forth when speaking about Pathfinder deities, at least until we do some crazy post-epic "here's how to play a god" book about 34 years from now. But until then... whether or not something's a demigod or god doesn't make any difference to the worshipers.
Frankly... it's when we get the urge and decide "Wouldn't it be cool to stats for THIS GOD?" that we lock in if a deity is a god or demigod. By which reasoning we've only confirmed that one deity is a demigod so far: Achaekek.
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Creative Director
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There are a small number of typos and small errors that will be fixed on the second printing. We are striving to make the changes to the PDF that will be available on the 13th. As we move along, there will undoubtedly be other changes and we will update the PDF on a regular basis and let people know when we do so they can download the updated PDF.
-Lisa
Lisa,
Can you say whether these errors affect gameplay or not, or are they largely just typos and format errors here and there? I know in my group there should be plenty of PFRPG copies going around, and I'd rather get some APs and wait and get a 2nd printing of the book if it'll fix a few quirks here and there.
I'm not Lisa, but I can answer!
A few of the errors are relatively minor errors that could affect gameplay... nothing huge, and nothing that common sense won't solve if you don't have access to the errata. In a book this size, errors like that are more or less guaranteed, but I'm really REALLY pleased with how few of them there seem to be in there.
Other errors, like typos or an improper indent or an en-dash used when we meant an em-dash or an italicized comma or an unfortunate and obvious widow or orphan are not errata, and they're unlikely to be errors that many readers will ever notice. We'll be fixing those too, though.
Also... I reserve the right to waffle and decide later that Groetus is a demigod.
My idea that he's a god is pretty much 100% fueled by the fact that he's the size of a small moon and stats for something like that would be stupid. So by making him a god, we avoid that problem.
BUT If Groetus is in fact not the moon and that's just his vehicle or shell or something and he's something smaller inside it... maybe he CAN be a demigod.
In any case, the word CAN be used back and forth when speaking about Pathfinder deities, at least until we do some crazy post-epic "here's how to play a god" book about 34 years from now. But until then... whether or not something's a demigod or god doesn't make any difference to the worshipers.
Frankly... it's when we get the urge and decide "Wouldn't it be cool to stats for THIS GOD?" that we lock in if a deity is a god or demigod. By which reasoning we've only confirmed that one deity is a demigod so far: Achaekek.
That's fine. I understand not wanting to be locked into a decision by one comment made in a chat room.
Personally with dust-up about how Golarion cosmology is mean to atheists (which happened in another thread)- I think it would be cool if Groetus was a demigod, so that in some hypothetical future high level adventure player characters could potentially change a system that they think is unfair.
EDITED
Also... I reserve the right to waffle and decide later that Groetus is a demigod.
My idea that he's a god is pretty much 100% fueled by the fact that he's the size of a small moon and stats for something like that would be stupid. So by making him a god, we avoid that problem.
BUT If Groetus is in fact not the moon and that's just his vehicle or shell or something and he's something smaller inside it... maybe he CAN be a demigod.
In any case, the word CAN be used back and forth when speaking about Pathfinder deities, at least until we do some crazy post-epic "here's how to play a god" book about 34 years from now. But until then... whether or not something's a demigod or god doesn't make any difference to the worshipers.
Frankly... it's when we get the urge and decide "Wouldn't it be cool to stats for THIS GOD?" that we lock in if a deity is a god or demigod. By which reasoning we've only confirmed that one deity is a demigod so far: Achaekek.
I'd imagine something similar to Atropus from Elder Evil might be a vehicle to utilize Groetus as a grand challenge. Traveling across the harsh surface to battle forth his aspect or manifestation of his consciousness.
There's no entry specifying the energy drain of the Astradaemon. Like, one level or two (or more) and what DC (It is 20) to get rid of it.