On of my PCs has expressed an interest in investing a few thousand gps in a house of ill repute in a large city. Now, I've really got no idea as to what sort of money this would cost, or what returns might be expected. Does anyone have any advice, or pointers to helpful resources? Thanks in advance!
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I would be more then happy to help. Well it comes to the base of do you want it to be profitable? I was working on some equations to help.
+Profit
60%--Would go back into the buisness to keep it running. This would include protection from local thieves and protection money from the local guard.
In order not to start running a breeding ground for some of the diseases from The BOOK OF VILE DARKNESS he would have to have a remove disease cast on each of the employee's weekly. 3x5x10=50gp
(also this price would also include terminated conseptions/ adoptions which ever is perfered)
For an adventurer to ever start running a business it would be difficult as they would only see the splenders of there actions when they are in that area
10-20%--Would be siphoned by the dishonest employees in which the business has been left in their charge.
At this point you can deside how much money you want them to have. but running it off a basis (4d4) x (variable). The variable would be figures like 5,10,100,1000,10000 in Gp
Adverage rolls----------Actual return
8x5=40------------------10
8x10=80-----------------20
8x100=800---------------200
8x1000=8,000------------2,000
8x10000=80,000----------20,000
The actual return did not include the cost of the remove disease
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I know it sounds odd, but I'd look in the Fortress Builder's Guidebook. I seem to recall it has construction and building costs for various sizes and types of buildings (not just keeps and castles) and also per-day wages for various support staff. Now, I don't know that it includes prostitutes in that, but it should give you an idea to base it on.
Besides, I'd think that'd be a range depending on how "upscale" he wants to be - you'll need to ask him some basic Qs to get an idea what kinds of costs will be involved...and then of course if there's a demand for what he's offering, (for you to decide), you'll have to work out profits!
Another thing to consider is that some of the local clergy might not take that sort of development lying down (pun intended). Will there be LG clerics out in front protesting, assuming it's a town where they are in any kind of numbers? Will your budding entrepreneur have to do something to deal with that?
Then there are jealous boy/girlfriends to deal with, and all kinds of other fun stuff. Roleplay opportunities abound, should you choose to pursue them. But don't make it easy on the player - running a business, ANY business, is a lot of work. He can't expect to just show up once a week and collect his profits, unless he hires a LOT of competent and honest management staff, which of course isn't cheap and adds that much more to overhead.
I too have an odd suggestion for ideas. In Pathfinder #14 theres some stuff about running a gambling hall, costs and such as well as what the building is worth. I think all things being equal this is a good base model for the kind of business he wants, remove diseases notwithstanding.
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Just hire paladin prostitutes. They're immune to disease.
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Just hire paladin prostitutes. They're immune to disease.
LOL
Also, in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, there are essentially birth control herbs, one for men and one for women. I think the one for women is cheaper. They would each have to take it every few days, so something like 3 times a week.
Also check the DMG 2, there's a whole chapter on running a business in D&D.
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Well, I was about to make a suggestion or two ... and it looks like similar thoughts have already been had.
Indeed, in the FR Campagn setting, there are two herbs: Cassil (for men), and Nararoot (for women). The former is a tasteless powder, the latter is a tea. Both are perfect for their intended purposes.
Next, I think that Fiendish Dire Weasel was referring to the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook. I would highly recommend it as a resource. With it you can make anything from a keep to a boat to ... a brothel. There are very simplified mechanics for owning a business and how much profit you receive above expense, and there can be a wide variety of how "upscale" of a place he wants it to be, as Fiendish Dire Weasel also suggested. It is a fantastic little resource, that has scads of ideas for making buildings and whatnot, and you will find some of the magical architecture leads to great ideas for things to put in, like spying on occupants, or preventing the same. Also, things like fantasy-themed rooms, and rooms that take you to exoctic locales. (Anyone for a romp in the hay in the Elysium Fields or fetish play in the Nine Hells?) Also, Dragon Magazine #295 had some additional material that expanded the options for the SBG.
Also, the Living Greyhawk campaign had a nifty little thing called the "Town Project" which utilized the mechanics from the SGB, and was an expansion geared precisely toward PCs adding to towns and whatnot, and there was a subsequent expansion to it,called the "Business Opportunity Expansion" that went into rather specific detail on profitablity (or profit loss) of a business. Still very simple mechanics based on their skill rolls with the appropriate Craft, Perform or Profession skill, but much more in-depth. Also, they allow for how the business can affect town economy, as well as taxes, fees, salaries to employees, and even maintenance costs.
Anyway ... these are both great resources, and if you have trouble locating either of these or getting a copy, contact me off-thread, and I'll help out.
Wade
aka "Icarus"
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Okay, first off, let's assume that this is a secular brothel. Temples of Love Gods and Goddesses have an easy health protection plan in that their clerics are also the pimps/madams and can thus cast Cure Disease as a regular thing. But temples aren't businesses you invest in.
Check the DMG II for the basic rules for running a business. There's some troubles with those, but let's just assume they work well enough.
For the matter of Cure Disease, it would be more sensible to simply create a Bed of Miraculous Healing. This would be a large four-poster bed which would cast Cure Disease on those having sex in it, making it technically a trap, with maybe some extra discount for it needing a performance check to activate it. If you check The Book of Erotic Fantasy, you'll find the requisite Perform skill and probably a lot of other stuff you'd need to set up a brothel.
Assuming your world has them, you should probably hire Eberron changelings for at least half your girls. Some clients have racial preferences, some like novelty, some have particular kinks, and some want guys. Changelings take care of all of these and don't have to be paid as much as doppelgangers. But doppelgangers can read minds, so if you want a really high trade courtesan, you hire one of those too, ideally as your brothel's assistant madam, who will mostly be working figuring out what clients want and who you have on staff that would be able to fit that need, and then filling in in a pinch for the truly bizarre clients. You say you're only turned on by red-headed half-dragon half-orc hermaphrodites? Why, sir, you are in luck!
It's also advisable to keep a couple scrolls of Polymorph Any Object on hand for those times when your doppelganger assistant madam spots a problem among the prospective clients, one of those troubles where you just can't say no or rely on the authorities or your own security forces to deal with the matter. What this means that, since you're in the business of selling virgins, or at least taking a cut of them selling themselves, in a magical world this is going to attract problem clients, ones who are interested in more than just the bragging rights of having having deflowered some innocent young thing. Instead, you're going to attract the occasional Book of Vile Darkness baddie who, in the guise of just a regular client with a virginity fetish, instead intends to use said virgin for various unspeakable acts not limited to but probably including rape, murder, sacrificing her soul to dark gods, and necromantic necrophilia.
For such occasions, just go into the kitchen, use some lipstick to draw a face on a radish, turn it into a woman with the scroll, then lead her back out to the BoVD baddie, swear that this innocent virgin has never known the touch of a man (and she hasn't, because two minutes ago, she was a radish), ask for some ruinous deposit as he takes her off to the "private celebration" or whatever euphemism he's using for his banal unholy rites, and then wash your hands of the matter since he probably won't survive the unholy backlash of having sacrificed a radish to Vecna.
Alternately, tell your client that virgins are highly in demand (and they are) but such matters can be arranged, then go find a virgin paladin and tell them that you've got a date for them with a BoVD baddie and all they need to do to corner him is dress like a hooker.
This is assuming you're running a good or at least non-evil brothel. If you're running an evil one, just follow the price guide in the BoVD.
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since he probably won't survive the unholy backlash of having sacrificed a radish to Vecna.
I'm sorry that's the most important part of your post, and it is going into my signature on another site, thank you.
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Next, I think that Fiendish Dire Weasel was referring to the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.
Yep, that's the one I meant... Fortress, Stronghold, to-may-to, to-mah-to. :) That's what I get for trying to go from memory. It's a great resource and I love it, but it is also not an "every session" book, it gets used pretty rarely so I forgot what it was called. :)
Thanks for the correction. :)
Ok. How do I get in on this? I do have a hoard to invest, you know!
If your game doesn't have changelings, Hats of Disguise are probably the best investment you can make for your brothel and will allow your girls to keep working long past regular retirement age.
If your game doesn't have changelings, Hats of Disguise are probably the best investment you can make for your brothel and will allow your girls to keep working long past regular retirement age.
OK, that's just...just...a truly admirable idea. My hat's off to you, sir.
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Contributor
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If you're looking for rules to handle it, the DMG2 has a fairly comprehensive rules set for running PC businesses that ensure that it requires some amount of effort and doesn't just blindly generate cash. It includes suggested investment costs, rules for hiring employees, ad random event tables to see if anything especially good or bad happens to the business at any given point. I highly recommend them.
That being said, if you just don't like the idea of your PCs being pimps, you could just say 'no'.
Contributor
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If your game doesn't have changelings, Hats of Disguise are probably the best investment you can make for your brothel and will allow your girls to keep working long past regular retirement age.OK, that's just...just...a truly admirable idea. My hat's off to you, sir.
No, no, keep it on. It makes you look younger.
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That being said, if you just don't like the idea of your PCs being pimps, you could just say 'no'.
Have you seen the illustrations for most of the magic apparel and accessories? Our PCs are already dressed like pimps. They might as well act the part.
The Rod of Splendor is a Pimp Stick by any other name.
Mongoose's "The Quintessential Tempress" has extensive rules for running a brothel.
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This thread is absolutely hilarious.
A salute (with a clean hand) to Kevin Andrew Murphy for his ... insightful commentary herein. :)
Also, the Living Greyhawk campaign had a nifty little thing called the "Town Project" which utilized the mechanics from the SGB, and was an expansion geared precisely toward PCs adding to towns and whatnot, and there was a subsequent expansion to it,called the "Business Opportunity Expansion" that went into rather specific detail on profitablity (or profit loss) of a business. Still very simple mechanics based on their skill rolls with the appropriate Craft, Perform or Profession skill, but much more in-depth. Also, they allow for how the business can affect town economy, as well as taxes, fees, salaries to employees, and even maintenance costs.
Anyway ... these are both great resources, and if you have trouble locating either of these or...
I'd appreciate some help finding the LG "Town Project". I found some stuff for Living Dyvers, is there a more generic Town Project PDF?
How do I contact you offline?
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If your game doesn't have changelings, Hats of Disguise are probably the best investment you can make for your brothel and will allow your girls to keep working long past regular retirement age.
A paper bag performs much the same function.
For the really raddled old hags, I'd suggest a 'double-bagger', ie one bag for her, and one for the client, in case hers falls off in the exertion.
Best thread.
Ever.
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If your game doesn't have changelings, Hats of Disguise are probably the best investment you can make for your brothel and will allow your girls to keep working long past regular retirement age.A paper bag performs much the same function.
For the really raddled old hags, I'd suggest a 'double-bagger', ie one bag for her, and one for the client, in case hers falls off in the exertion.
Sure, you can do that, but why have stale bread and water when with just a little effort you can have toast and tea?
If you have your raddled hag with no magic but enough skill in the bedroom arts you actually want to charge for her services, well then, take the advice of Sally Stanford, carriage trade madam from San Francisco's golden age of prostitution.
I don't have her bio at hand, but I'll paraphrase the story: She had a young woman come to her who really wanted to be a hooker, but she was ugly. Every last part of her. Sally checked, trying to see if maybe she at least had pretty hands or nice legs or something else they could emphasize. No such luck.
Sally's second in command then suggested they drape her in veils and bill her as "a harem dancer from the far east." As Sally said, "That might work if we kept the lights low and the guests high."
What this means is you use the Disguise skill, giving a bonus for veils (much more tasteful than the paper bag), a circumstance bonus for the dim lighting, and finally an alchemical penalty on the client from various intoxicants.
If your girl (here meaning prostitute, not woman below a certain age) is still beyond hope in the appearance department, you do use the bag on the client as well, but in the form of a gimp mask, telling him "Mistress Hagitha does not allow the unworthy to gaze upon her, and you've been a bad, bad, evil little necromancer, haven't you?"
Now that's all without magic.
But in a magical world, necromancy adds whole new possibilities. Why go to a regular brothel when you can go to a haunted house of ill repute?
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Best thread.
Ever.
Preach it, brother!
For more delicious er um depraved ideas, take a look at the Book of vile Darkness sealed dungeon adventure Porphyry House of horrors. Without giving away too much it has some fascinating ideas about where you could get your girls. Plus, dispel magic could lead to some great practical jokes. :)
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Well, yes, but the Porphyry House is a EVIL brothel, and if you're in the evil business, it's anything goes.
Though admittedly Porphyry House was missing a few tricks. I mean, there's the Lich-Loved feat in the BoVD. Do you really have to go out of your way to proposition a lich to get it, get in to a long and lasting relationship, all that mushy stuff? Can't you just find one to rent by the hour?
Honestly, there are a lot wizards with divination magic out there, and it would be completely within the realm of possibility that someone would simply take the True Seeing spell out for a road test and publish a guide to all the brothels and their nasty secrets. Something like this:
The Lusty Mermaid
Appearance: Reasonably-priced dockside brothel catering to sailors
Truth: Den of wererats
Reason to Patronize: If you think whiskers and tails are sexy, go for it.
Madame ChiChi's
Appearance: Old respectable brothel that's been around forever
Truth: It's been around forever because it has--Madame ChiChi is a vampire and most of her girls are too
Reason to Patronize: If you're a necromancer or dark priest, you can get free service.
The Inn of the Five Gates
Appearance: Nice brothel with remarkably wholesome wenches
Truth: Front for boring demonic cult with equally boring succubi
Reason to Patronize: None
The Golden Purse
Appearance: Quaint, full-service brothel able to fit almost any regular request
Truth: Business of debauched old gnome illusionist. All girls are actually him in disguise.
Reason to Patronize: Prostitutes generally sell illusion anyway. Here it's purer that most. And the amazing collection of illuminated manuscripts is real.
Pendergarden Alley
Appearance: Unassuming cobblestone alley with working girls
Truth: Yes, by the Gods! Truth! No illusions! No shapeshifting! No undead! Real live human and half-orc girls!
Reason to Patronize: Go now! Go before this honest jewel is gone!
<other good stuff>
The Golden Purse
Appearance: Quaint, full-service brothel able to fit almost any regular request
Truth: Business of debauched old gnome illusionist. All girls are actually him in disguise.
Reason to Patronize: Prostitutes generally sell illusion anyway. Here it's purer that most. And the amazing collection of illuminated manuscripts is real.
<ROTFL>
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I don't know whether to be very impressed by Kevin's input on this thread, or just a little weirded out that he's obviously put lots of thought into this subject. :)
Either way, it has been very insightful. I keep wondering about the expenses involved with all the magic his place would be throwing around. It'd be tough to make a good profit!
I don't know whether to be very impressed by Kevin's input on this thread, or just a little weirded out that he's obviously put lots of thought into this subject. :)
Either way, it has been very insightful. I keep wondering about the expenses involved with all the magic his place would be throwing around. It'd be tough to make a good profit!
In all fairness the types of places he mentioned were mostly fronts with their income probably not coming from the prostitution itself. well except the gnome and the alley.... the gnome one is well... odd and I think that gnome would be overworked.... ><
In all fairness the types of places he mentioned were mostly fronts with their income probably not coming from the prostitution itself. well except the gnome and the alley.... the gnome one is well... odd and I think that gnome would be overworked.... ><I don't know whether to be very impressed by Kevin's input on this thread, or just a little weirded out that he's obviously put lots of thought into this subject. :)
Either way, it has been very insightful. I keep wondering about the expenses involved with all the magic his place would be throwing around. It'd be tough to make a good profit!
Remember, Simulacrum is an illusion spell, and if he's used gnome shadow cheese, his doubles will be even more real than he is, and just as capable of disguising themselves.
After all, how do you think he fulfills regular requests like threesomes and orgies?
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I would also suggest reading through a couple of Glen Cook's _Garrett Files_ novels-- Cold Copper Tears, Bitter Gold Hearts, Sweet Silver Dreams are the first three, IIRC. It's a good fantasy noir world and should give some excellent pointers as to some of the shenanigans you might get in a rougher quarter of the city where a brothel exists. You'll find the inspiration really flows from there. It is Glen Cook, after all.
-Ben.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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I don't know whether to be very impressed by Kevin's input on this thread, or just a little weirded out that he's obviously put lots of thought into this subject. :)
Either way, it has been very insightful.
I couldn't (and I doubt anyone else could either) have said it better myself!
I don't actually know, but doesn't Inara's character have these kinds of rules in the Firefly RPG? It may be worth checking out.
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I couldn't (and I doubt anyone else could either) have said it better myself!I don't know whether to be very impressed by Kevin's input on this thread, or just a little weirded out that he's obviously put lots of thought into this subject. :)
Either way, it has been very insightful.
I'm impressed AND scared. Nice work there Kevin (and great line with the radish).
I'm impressed AND scared. Nice work there Kevin (and great line with the radish).
Thank you.
It's not so much extensive thought so much as me being a writer.
What I've mentioned here is less odd than what I just did for BUSTED FLUSH, the latest Wild Cards mosaic novel....
But on with the fantasy brothels. Nymphs and satyrs are of course a natural, but if you really want to freak people out, let them run into a centaur gigolo. And those would be less uncommon than you might think.
Why? Reincarnation. It's the only reasonably cost-effective means to regain lost youth. 1700 GP and the loss of one level for a new fresh young body and no guilty conscience.
The only other alternative, Steal Life from the BoVD, is 8th level, and only grants one week of youth, and requires a donor and must be done on the night of the full moon. Certainly, it's the Rolls Royce of options, and could be combined with Magic Jar and Greater Restoration to restore youth to an extremely successful aged courtesan or wealthy king's mistress, but still has that troubling Evil descriptor, so could still cause trouble with paladins, Ravenloft Dark Powers and similar moralistic busybodies.
But with reincarnation, you come back in a nice fresh new body with almost all your previous experience, and if you really feel the need to get back to your old form, you can probably get there with a properly worded wish and get to keep the new youth.
Or you could just spend the 1700 GP and see if you can turn tricks as a centaur.
Psuedo-sado-masochistic-necro-beastiality
What? It just feels good.
Psuedo-sado-masochistic-necro-beastiality
What? It just feels good.
Yes, but it can be lethal.
The proprietor of the Golden Purse can use his spellcraft to make the form of a Phantasmal Killer be an undead hamster.
I'll leave it to your imagination what the undead hamster does next, but yes, that's psuedo-sado-masochistic-necro-bestialiaty with a little auto-eroticism thrown in compliments of the house (after all, you might survive the Phantasmal Killer, and that's where the auto-eroticism comes in).
Oh yes, the undead hamster is also dressed in a tiny cowl with a tiny scythe. Gnomes like whimsy, and this is obviously Le Petit Mort.
Whatever you do, don't try to skip out on payment at the temple of Callistria's brothel, lust and vengeance...
Hey if it feels good go for it!! Who am I to judge my first time was with a spider worshiping psycopath.Psuedo-sado-masochistic-necro-beastiality
What? It just feels good.
Wait you dated my sister? I'm so so very sorry, I tried to stop her -- I really did, but she's a little sister you know?
Oh yes, the undead hamster is also dressed in a tiny cowl with a tiny scythe. Gnomes like whimsy, and this is obviously Le Petit Mort.
Well played, sir.
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Wait you dated my sister? I'm so so very sorry, I tried to stop her -- I really did, but she's a little sister you know?Hey if it feels good go for it!! Who am I to judge my first time was with a spider worshiping psycopath.Psuedo-sado-masochistic-necro-beastiality
What? It just feels good.
Your sister? Hey tell her I said thanks!!
Hey what about those necro-denderphiliacs. Hey the necromancer/druids need some love too