I remember the Baba Yaga adventure in Dragon magazine, and how at the time the hut seemed to me to work something like the TARDIS in Dr Who, only much more cool and more dangerous. (e.g. Trappers!)
I would love to see this adventure get the Paizo treatment!
I remember the Baba Yaga adventure in Dragon magazine, and how at the time the hut seemed to me to work something like the TARDIS in Dr Who, only much more cool and more dangerous. (e.g. Trappers!)
I would love to see this adventure get the Paizo treatment!
It couldn't be an analog of Roger Moore's awesome tesseract..
But it could be extra-dimensional and incredibly awesome!
Imagine something rich in folklore and mythology. If it was an AP you could have the whole Paizo gang adding their own elements.
Like Sean Reynolds doing the old gods. Wolfgang Baur bringing in some mythology and folklore. The usual suspects (Pett, Hitchcock, LOgue, or even the newer guys like Drader and Cortijo).
And of course, with the Wes and James directing the whole shebang.
Matter of fact, Wes has a good eye for folklore and mythology too.
I would ADORE a Pathfinder treatment of Baba Yaga,
Seconded.
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I think that it's a lot like the City of Brass, Charles. It is a much loved fantasy 'property/location' that gets lots of reference, but relatively little (not none, but little compared to the amount of noteriety of the place). An AP centered around Ruso/Finnish mythology could be really frickin' cool (no pun intended, but accepted) and it would be great to see the ties between Baba Yaga and Kostchtchie; to see the PF take on the Mammoth Lords, Irrisen, and the Linnorm Kings.
I think some of the comments being bandied about are just expressing interest in the concept. You don't get the full look, but it looks like there are lots of people wanting to take a peep. And James has expressed some interest in tackling it. I'm all for it!
I think that there is plenty on Baba Yaga (and her house) to give JJ fuel for the fire, with no real need to lean on the old article. Take a look at the other thread on this if you want to see links for her place in folklore (and fantasy fiction). While I respect the nostalgia, I more interested in seeing what would come of tackling it anew (especially if that is the only realistic way forward.)
If it is the mythalogical figure of Baba Yaga that is interesting to people, then why aren't the pleas for James Jacobs to write his best ideas on the subject, instead of to copy someone else's work?There seem to me to be two conflicting camps here: those who want a dungeon the same or similar to a previous edition one, and those who want *anything* with Baba-Yaga in. (Possibly some people are in both camps, but I can see any attempts to satisfy them by closely reprising the original adventure(s?) causing legal problems.)
Actually Charles, I think you're projecting that on to people. I don't believe the situation is really as you describe it. Perhaps some people in the thread have used conversational shorthand in writing their posts. Perhaps a few have genuinely misunderstood. But where you see "camps" and "factions"- I just see excitement and enthusiasm, and a few people who didn't follow the conversation as closely as others.
There are no two conflicting camps. And if even were, one exists in vain.
1.) Roger Moore wrote a very cool adventure back in 1st Edition.
2.) James admitted that he was converting it to 3.5 in his almost non-existent free time.
3.) People such as myself, and others, said, "Hey, bring that into Golarion."
4.) James pointed, "I can't, we don't have the IP. But we could do an original version."
5.) This thread came into existence to say, "Hey, we'd really love to see that."
Now when you see people referring to the Roger Moore module, that's the only basis of comparison that they have. However, I don't believe they're literally saying "Convert that", but rather that they'd like to see something cool that is similar to it.
And when I say similar, I mean it's based on the folklore of a witch with a hut that walks around on giant chicken legs and is bigger on the inside than on the outside. There's lots of room to work with that concept without making it a literal conversion of an old module.
I myself loved the Roger Moore module, but I accept that we're never going to see it. But that doesn't mean that we couldn't have an even greater adventure based upon the folklore of the Dancing Hut.
So how about it, Charles? Setting aside this speculation on what other people are thinking and wanting, would you be interested in adventure or AP dealing with this subject material?
EDIT: If I sound terse, Charles, it's not because I want to argue with you or tell you that you're wrong. It's just that I see your post, itself, as a derail of the discussion. Even if you're right, and "some" of these people are hoping for a conversion; that doesn't mean that their energy and enthusiasm can't be re-directed towards an original Paizo adventure based on the subject material. I just don't want this to be a thread where we spend time telling people what they think and what they want, and then fighting about it (while we try to outdo each other in praising Paizo).
That's why I'd like to know what YOU think about an adventure based on Baba Yaga, or an AP dealing with Irrisen.
I think that it's a lot like the City of Brass, Charles. It is a much loved fantasy 'property/location' that gets lots of reference, but relatively little (not none, but little compared to the amount of noteriety of the place). An AP centered around Ruso/Finnish mythology could be really frickin' cool (no pun intended, but accepted) and it would be great to see the ties between Baba Yaga and Kostchtchie; to see the PF take on the Mammoth Lords, Irrisen, and the Linnorm Kings.
I think some of the comments being bandied about are just expressing interest in the concept. You don't get the full look, but it looks like there are lots of people wanting to take a peep. And James has expressed some interest in tackling it. I'm all for it!
Exactly... conversational shorthand and expressing interest. I grant the Paizo community more credit than wanting a literal conversion of WOTC's published material.
Roger Moore was just the only other guy to tackle the subject material in a comprehensive manner (which as James has pointed out, had little to do with the actual folklore). It was a fun module, and it had a few tricks in it that hadn't been seen up until that point- but Paizo breaks new ground in design all the time.
I think that there is plenty on Baba Yaga (and her house) to give JJ fuel for the fire, with no real need to lean on the old article. Take a look at the other thread on this if you want to see links for her place in folklore (and fantasy fiction). While I respect the nostalgia, I more interested in seeing what would come of tackling it anew (especially if that is the only realistic way forward.)
Certainly.
I loves Paizo more 'n you do.
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Getting back to the original idea of the thread:
Consider this my petition signature. I would love to see an AP based in the northern parts of Golarion that, at the very least, would include Baba Yaga's Hut. I believe that JJ could easily surpass anything that has been published so far (no pressure ;)
Watcher:
Since you've specifically asked me for my opinion on this I believe that Baba Yaga, given the way that she has been built up in Golarion, is TOO BIG for any game unless it is at an epic level of play. To torment some poor dupe who comes to see her, she turns him into a demigod - and I take it that that means that she has more power than most demigods, if she can create them like that.An Irrisen adventure path maybe, but an adventure involving Baba Yaga herself or an invasion of her hut wouldn't make sense to me at anything less than epic level.
Fair enough..
You raise a worthwhile point, even though I not sure I entirely agree.
However, if you are right, the Dancing Hut might make more an excellent first Epic level adventure, assuming that much further down the road Paizo writes such epic level rules that have been hinted at...
Hmmm ... notice that James has been very careful not to post on this thread? :) I know he's been up to his eyebrows in the PFRPG and now is beating monsters into proper submission form, but ::chuckle::
Wouldn't you like to write this for us, James? Hmmmm?
Creative Director
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Hmmm ... notice that James has been very careful not to post on this thread? :) I know he's been up to his eyebrows in the PFRPG and now is beating monsters into proper submission form, but ::chuckle::
Wouldn't you like to write this for us, James? Hmmmm?
Actually, up to my eyebrows in PFRPG is about the way of it. Although now, that officially switches to up to my eyebrows in the Bestiary.
Anyway, a Baba Yaga adventure set in Golarion would have to be something different than Roger Moore's adventure, and since that adventure's one of my all-time favorites, I'm not sure how or what I could do to do something different that didn't feel inferior or pale in comparasion to the original. One need only look at the 2nd edition remake to see how to do the Hut wrong.
A more interesting option WOULD be to do an Irrisen AP or a big supermodule type thing involving the Hut and Kostchtchie's attempt to get revenge on Baba Yaga, throwing the PCs in between that rock and hard place with all sorts of mayhem. I could certainly see that as a 15th-20th level mega-adventure, and it'd be pretty fun to write, I would think. I don't think that one needs to go epic to use Baba Yaga though... especially since that immediately fires up the arguments about how Baba Yaga can NEVER be high enough CR, due to the epic rules' critical and annoying flaw of not having an upper level cap/limit to power so one can scale things properly. But that's a different post entirely!
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interesting option WOULD be to do an Irrisen AP or a big supermodule type thing involving the Hut and Kostchtchie's attempt to get revenge on Baba Yaga, throwing the PCs in between that rock and hard place with all sorts of mayhem. I could certainly see that as a 15th-20th level mega-adventure
This is all kinds of fanboy sexy.
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A more interesting option WOULD be to do an Irrisen AP or a big supermodule type thing involving the Hut and Kostchtchie's attempt to get revenge on Baba Yaga, throwing the PCs in between that rock and hard place with all sorts of mayhem.
Oh, is suppose if you must take that direction with it...
*stiffles schoolgirl-like squeal*
I believe that Baba Yaga, given the way that she has been built up in Golarion, is TOO BIG for any game unless it is at an epic level of play. An Irrisen adventure path maybe, but an adventure involving Baba Yaga herself or an invasion of her hut wouldn't make sense to me at anything less than epic level.
I disagree with this evaluation, inasfar as the Russian mythology is full of tales of "low-level" people wandering into the Hut and escaping before Baba Yaga can come home and eat them. In short, you can have the Hut, and have Baba Yaga -- and have the PCs interact with the former without having them fight with the latter.
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I disagree with this evaluation, inasfar as the Russian mythology is full of tales of "low-level" people wandering into the Hut and escaping before Baba Yaga can come home and eat them. In short, you can have the Hut, and have Baba Yaga -- and have the PCs interact with the former without having them fight with the latter.
Baba Yaga is allways a hard one to get right...
Kershov & Ilam
-A tale from Baba Yaga's Hut-
The rifles cracked as thunder across the Carpathians.
Their men were dead. The women of this muddy village of hovels screamed and retreated from the violence of this trespass as though their clay and straw huts would protect them from devils.
A groan came from one body of a man.
“Not dead?” Kershov signaled to his companion. Ilam approached the body.
“This one doesn’t want to die!”
“So?” Ilam lifted his rifle.
“No.” In a few simple blows, an axe split the narrow shape of a small tree, felling the leaves and branches, and then shaping the trunk to a point.
“Now?” asked Ilam.
“Now!” replied his companion. Ilam hoisted the living corpse in the air and dropped it down on the stump. The corpse choked and died.
Suddenly they became aware of something. No longer were there sounds coming from the ruin of this dirty hole of a village. They investigated the huts for potential victims. They were gone. The fear of their violence was gone from it. It hadn’t been that long. They had killed the groaning man in a breath of seconds.
Kershov and Ilam struggled about the grey clay mud with their rifles at the ready.
Movement caught Ilam in the corner of his eye.
“There!” An old woman had pushed quickly across the gravel and descended into the darkness of a hut at the very edge of the village.
“Not getting away!” Kershov made for the opening and descended into the darkness. Ilam almost fell in behind him.
What struck them instantly was the scale of it on the inside. They had entered the simple hut through a small doorway. The hut interior was deeply dark. Underfoot the floor scraped as metallic. Kershov struck up a light and applied it to his tallow-lamp.
"What is this?" The room of the hut was deeply circular. The floor, the wall, and ceiling were iron. The Ceiling most of all was low and dark. They would have to bend to avoid bumping their heads. The doorway behind them snapped shut.
"No!" Ilam and Kershov threw themselves against the sealed entrance. It was solid iron.
There had to be a release somewhere on it. Both companions struggled for the indiscernible catch that would release them from this wolf’s trap.
A grind of Metal came from the room behind them.
The Ceiling was a large clock face, the iron hands moving. Each tick echoed through the walls, ceiling, and floor. A minute on the clock passed. A Door on the far wall was grinding open.
What entered was a distortion of everything they thought of as human. The deformity moved slowly across the chamber until it stood at the centre.
"Interview you, Baba Yaga will." It examined them both with its diseased eyes. It couldn't possible see them. The deformity retreated to its doorway and the iron door sealed behind it.
Overhead the clock continued.
Kershov was whispering something to himself. Ilam stared at his companion. "What the hell are you doing?"
"Praying", answered Kershov.
Ilam realized he had never seen his companion pray in the six months they had been murdering and pillaging their way through these mountain villages.
"Why?" Ilam looked at the movement of the clock.
"Because when she is done cooking our corpses, she is going to torture our souls." Ilam stared at his companion.
"You are insane!" Segments in the wall opened and steam sprayed into the room.
The two murderers began to scream.
I disagree with this evaluation, inasfar as the Russian mythology is full of tales of "low-level" people wandering into the Hut and escaping before Baba Yaga can come home and eat them. In short, you can have the Hut, and have Baba Yaga -- and have the PCs interact with the former without having them fight with the latter.I believe that Baba Yaga, given the way that she has been built up in Golarion, is TOO BIG for any game unless it is at an epic level of play. An Irrisen adventure path maybe, but an adventure involving Baba Yaga herself or an invasion of her hut wouldn't make sense to me at anything less than epic level.
I'm with you on this, Kirth. In many stories, there is a profound ambiguity to Baba Yaga, she is a subtle, complex, and perhaps unpredictable evil, when compared to the BBEG who must work out her great plan and nothing may stand in her way or the big brute whose desire to smash you can only be averted by melee. I'd probably have to give it a lot more thought to take this much further, but if I was going to tackle BY, I'd go back to all those resources in folklore and work my way forward, thinking about how a very scary, powerful foe like her could interact with and threaten the party without having a two round TPK. To my way of thinking, a party in her hut (whether by invitation, necessity, trickery, what have you) wouldn't be there to kill her and destroy her hut. They'd be there for some limited purpose and then they'd be looking to escape with their lives. (And of course, there is always the possibility that one is dealing with an easier to defeat avatar than with BY in her full presence and power.)
I disagree with this evaluation, inasfar as the Russian mythology is full of tales of "low-level" people wandering into the Hut and escaping before Baba Yaga can come home and eat them. In short, you can have the Hut, and have Baba Yaga -- and have the PCs interact with the former without having them fight with the latter.I believe that Baba Yaga, given the way that she has been built up in Golarion, is TOO BIG for any game unless it is at an epic level of play. An Irrisen adventure path maybe, but an adventure involving Baba Yaga herself or an invasion of her hut wouldn't make sense to me at anything less than epic level.
In Call of Cthulhu or perhaps a Ravenloft style D&D game maybe the players might build characters operating with that mentality.
In a regular D&D game, I guarantee there will be players whose characters want to stay there and beat down on the owner of the hut, because 'running away isn't very heroic'.
There are quite a few adventures in NORMAL D&D where a party has to get something from an area owned by someone who can TPK them without batting an eye and isn't home. It doesn't need to be a Horror genre for a party to know when they are outmatched.
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There are quite a few adventures in NORMAL D&D where a party has to get something from an area owned by someone who can TPK them without batting an eye and isn't home. It doesn't need to be a Horror genre for a party to know when they are outmatched.I disagree with this evaluation, inasfar as the Russian mythology is full of tales of "low-level" people wandering into the Hut and escaping before Baba Yaga can come home and eat them. In short, you can have the Hut, and have Baba Yaga -- and have the PCs interact with the former without having them fight with the latter.I believe that Baba Yaga, given the way that she has been built up in Golarion, is TOO BIG for any game unless it is at an epic level of play. An Irrisen adventure path maybe, but an adventure involving Baba Yaga herself or an invasion of her hut wouldn't make sense to me at anything less than epic level.
In Call of Cthulhu or perhaps a Ravenloft style D&D game maybe the players might build characters operating with that mentality.
In a regular D&D game, I guarantee there will be players whose characters want to stay there and beat down on the owner of the hut, because 'running away isn't very heroic'.
No just players with some sense of forboding and a gm willing to play it that way.
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Creative Director
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I disagree with this evaluation, inasfar as the Russian mythology is full of tales of "low-level" people wandering into the Hut and escaping before Baba Yaga can come home and eat them. In short, you can have the Hut, and have Baba Yaga -- and have the PCs interact with the former without having them fight with the latter.I believe that Baba Yaga, given the way that she has been built up in Golarion, is TOO BIG for any game unless it is at an epic level of play. An Irrisen adventure path maybe, but an adventure involving Baba Yaga herself or an invasion of her hut wouldn't make sense to me at anything less than epic level.
In Call of Cthulhu or perhaps a Ravenloft style D&D game maybe the players might build characters operating with that mentality.
In a regular D&D game, I guarantee there will be players whose characters want to stay there and beat down on the owner of the hut, because 'running away isn't very heroic'.
Well... I ran Roger's "Dancing Hut" adventure back in college as a finale for my homebrew game wherein the PCs, who were around 20th level (2nd edition), had to chase an evil wizard named Karzoug into Baba Yaga's hut to prevent him from using the hut's power source to do a bad thing. That group of 20th-level heroes treated every room in the hut as if it were radioactive. They didn't touch anything they didn't have to, and avoided every possible combat, and managed to do the whole adventure, if I remember rightly, with only one fight: a fight against Karzoug.
So it's certainly possible that even high level characters won't try to beat down the hut's owner.
In any case, I still believe that we could do a pretty good adventure for 15th to 20th level play with this topic. Epic isn't necessary.
Oh that's a great little piece of pre-RotRl trivia.
And yeah, I believe that y'all could make a "pretty good" 15-20 lvl adventure with Baba Yaga.
Now when you see people referring to the Roger Moore module, that's the only basis of comparison that they have. However, I don't believe they're literally saying "Convert that", but rather that they'd like to see something cool that is similar to it.
That accurately describes me.
More shouting, foot-stomping, fist-banging, demanding. We have the other thread for discussion.
Once the bestiary is done, I demand James Jacobs be locked in a log cabin that is supported by giant chicken legs and not let out until this is produced!
More shouting, foot-stomping, fist-banging, demanding. We have the other thread for discussion.
Once the bestiary is done, I demand James Jacobs be locked in a log cabin that is supported by giant chicken legs and not let out until this is produced!
I'll run to the hardware store and get some padlocks.
James, you'll have a tea and snack stipend. Try to go on a writer's strike.. well, we've all read Stephen King too.
You'll be better off just gettin' it done.
Once you put numbers to something it just becomes another 'level appropriate challenge', and the lower the numbers, the less of a challenge for the more adventurers. I suspect that this is irrelevent to how a module is written though.
This is a problem with D&D in general. Putting statistics, especially hit points and defenses down, for any enemy renders them (theoretically at least) vanquishable. It would make an interesting topic. Myself, I think you shouldn't stat up deities. Creatures that exist in the world? Well sure. Even if it means they lose a little mystique, you gain a lot more when the players win and start telling the story.
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More shouting, foot-stomping, fist-banging, demanding. We have the other thread for discussion.
Once the bestiary is done, I demand James Jacobs be locked in a log cabin that is supported by giant chicken legs and not let out until this is produced!
And let's lock Erik in there as well, and let him out only after he's written at least a dozen stand-alone modules and three whole APs! :)
Yeah..."Howl of the Carrion King" suggests that locking Mona up would produce some good results. The question is, same project or different project?
Let...this...petition...LIVE!
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This adventure would be truly stupendous. I picture a sort of crazed madcap adventure as the PCs alternately flee from Baba Yaga, do her demented bidding, and attempt to escape from her hut alive. Defeating her seems like a mistake.
Survival horror, basically. And James would be just the guy to write it.
Go James Go!
+1
One of the early D&D memories of mine was a chicken-footed hut and the fear of finding the owner...(gotta choose the perfect coat-tails for a "+1" and who better than W. Baur?)
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Well... I ran Roger's "Dancing Hut" adventure back in college as a finale for my homebrew game wherein the PCs, who were around 20th level (2nd edition), had to chase an evil wizard named Karzoug into Baba Yaga's hut to prevent him from using the hut's power source to do a bad thing. That group of 20th-level heroes treated every room in the hut as if it were radioactive. They didn't touch anything they didn't have to, and avoided every possible combat, and managed to do the whole adventure, if I remember rightly, with only one fight: a fight against Karzoug.
Count me in too. I have been lobbying for a Northern-based AP all along including Linnor, Mammoth, and Irrisen - combining that with one of the all time notorious greats of early D&D editions of Baba Yaga would be all the gravy one could ever ask for.
As a side note - I believe I just read this account written somewhere - one of your editorials I think. Either a past Dungeon mag, or perhaps a Pathfinder book. Nonetheless the memory of having read this is very fresh so I know it was something I was just reading (or re-reading) recently.
The article culminate (I think) with the fact that PCs were able to breeze through the fight because they hadn't depleted their resources on all the ancillary encounters by avoiding everything......
Robert
I'm also gonna toss my hat into the ring as someone who would buy this in a heartbeat. Lets see this get done.
I'd still love to see it!
Memory is a funny thing...
** spoiler omitted **
Smithers, release the Jacobs.
And yes, yes, a kajillion times yes, Baba Yaga! :)
I believe that one gaming giant has thrown down his gauntlet to another. You gonna pick it up, Chief Jacobs?
Stokes fires. Mixes metaphors.
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Director of Narrative
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I swear, if Jacobs does not seize the day, Open Design might. After all, Baba Yaga is now canon for the Zobeck setting....
And she fits right in with the Northern/Germanic/Slavic tone of the setting! Hm....
How about mix the two and have James write as part of an Open Design project. Of course, first you'll need to find a way to warp time, sooooo...
I propose the first Open Design "Build Me A Damned Time Machine" project!
()
I swear, if Jacobs does not seize the day, Open Design might. After all, Baba Yaga is now canon for the Zobeck setting....
And she fits right in with the Northern/Germanic/Slavic tone of the setting! Hm....
The minute you announce this, I will be contacting PayPal :)
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The minute you announce this, I will be contacting PayPal :)I swear, if Jacobs does not seize the day, Open Design might. After all, Baba Yaga is now canon for the Zobeck setting....
And she fits right in with the Northern/Germanic/Slavic tone of the setting! Hm....
Do you think he takes promises of first-spawn?
Seriously Wolfgang, the Dancing Hut is an instant sale. I'd love to see James Jacobs be able to do this (maybe with you on board as a freelancer!)...
...but if it's not in the cards for Paizo, then do it.
Instant sale.