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After reading through the player's guide, it seems gnolls have a strong presence in the Katapesh region. They are even accepted in the city (to a certain extent). Based on this, it seems feasible that someone could play a gnoll PC without too much difficulty.
Has anyone had a player request a gnoll PC? Using Pathfinder Beta, would such a PC even need a level adjustment?
Thanks for any thoughts.
I would have a talk with the rest of the group prior to running this to make sure that a monstrous character would work in this group, but I could see a gnoll character working VERY well in this campaign (at least as far as I have read... part way through House of the Beast).
If someone is making a Ranger with favored enemy gnoll, it will make for some very interesting RP, but you also want to make sure there is a reason that it would actually work. (for example, you could say that the Ranger had captured the gnoll player who has turned guide in return for his life and is seeking redemption / freedom by accompanying the caravan).
Sean Mahoney
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I played a LN Gnoll Fighter/Cleric in 1e that was a blast. His back story was his raider band was wiped out by a paladin, and Serak was left barely alive. He was so impressed by the prowess of the paladin that, after he recovered, he sought out the paladin and simply asked "Show me". The paladin was intrigued and taught Serak about Donblas, human culture and the Law. Serak could never grok "good", (the rule of Law wasn't to hard a sell, though, he tended to be a stickler and a bit uptight) and could never become a paladin, but the Church of Donblas took him in and allowed him to take vows.
He was a fun PC.
My group is still pondering what they want to play in this AP. If they go gnoll, it will be all or nothing. I'll tell them that they're rebels who have fled the local gnoll bands out of protest because of the traditional ways being abandoned. I'll even give them the option of being a flind, if they want to eat the LA.
I'll prepare a handout with a paragraph or two on most of the local tribes and let them choose which one they're from. I'll let them know that members of their former tribe will probably try to kill them on sight.
My group is still pondering what they want to play in this AP. If they go gnoll, it will be all or nothing. I'll tell them that they're rebels who have fled the local gnoll bands out of protest because of the traditional ways being abandoned.
So you're going to expect them to eat people? I'm pretty sure eating people is a gnoll tradition. ;-)
So you're going to expect them to eat people? I'm pretty sure eating people is a gnoll tradition. ;-)
My Rise of the Runelords group consists of giantkin goblins, and they have a feast after pretty much every fight...
:D
Playing gnoll(s) is an interesting option in this campaign. I mean, good-aligned drows are still popular, why not gnolls?
My preferred method would be to introduce a new character (and or player) when the Three Jaw Pack offers an alliance. I don't really think Almah would hire on a gnoll, and at least not a whole group of them.
Playing gnoll(s) is an interesting option in this campaign. I mean, good-aligned drows are still popular, why not gnolls?
My preferred method would be to introduce a new character (and or player) when the Three Jaw Pack offers an alliance. I don't really think Almah would hire on a gnoll, and at least not a whole group of them.
The LOF Companion book does indicate that city-born, 2nd generation Katapeshi Gnolls are "somewhat" more civilized. I think a gnoll might make an interesting replacement pc, especially for pc deaths around House of the Beast or Jackyl's Price, but not at the start of the campaign, for a couple of reasons:
1. None of the campaign traits (maybe the slave one) really work well with a Gnoll PC.
2. Unless you use LA buyoff, or monster levels, a gnoll PC will be far more powerful than other PCs during the first part of the AP (LA +1 and two levels worth of HD).
3. As noted above, Almah would probably not hire on a Gnoll.
Now, the second reason does drop out if you are converting LoF to other systems or editions, such as 4e.
I don't really think Almah would hire on a gnoll, and at least not a whole group of them.
True. Going that route would probably have to have Garaval returning without having been able to hire anyone. The PCs in this case would more likely have been hired on by Dashki. This might take some tweaking of backgrounds.
Unless you use LA buyoff, or monster levels, a gnoll PC will be far more powerful than other PCs during the first part of the AP (LA +1 and two levels worth of HD).
I think that "far more powerful" is a little strong. Let's compare a starting gnoll with a starting half-orc fighter.
The gnoll has two more points each of Strength and Constitution, plus one point of natural armour. This is certainly better.
The half-orc fighter, on the other hand, is proficient with all martial weapons and all forms of armour, whereas the gnoll is only proficient with simple weapons and light armour. (The SRD seems to also make its default gnoll proficient with the battleaxe and shortbow, so it might be reasonable to give gnolls those two martial weapon proficiencies as bonus feats if you're feeling particularly kind.)
The half-orc fighter has two feats (including its fighter feat) whereas the gnoll has one. The gnoll has one more skill point. The fighter has 1d0 as a hit die and the gnoll has 2d8. They both have BAB +1.
So for the first part of the AP the gnoll has an advantage in Strength and Con, but has less flexibility in what it can do.
Let's fast forward 3000 experience points. Suddenly the gnoll has one level of fighter and the half-orc has three. The proficiency differences go away and the ability advantages and natural armour remain with the gnoll, but in every other way the half-orc is improving more rapidly.
The half-orc still has a one-feat advantage, and his BAB is +3 to the gnoll's +2. The half-orc has 3d10 as hit dice whereas the gnoll has 2d8+1d10. Most importantly, he's still ECL 3 which gives him more rapid acquisition of experience points compared to the gnoll's ECL 4. On top of that, he only needs 3000 experience points to gain another level while the gnoll needs 4000.
Is this really so unbalanced?
One interesting point of view... what if the characters were all gnoll members of the Three Claws (?) and started the AP/adventure when their friend Dashki contacts them. They then have to negotiate with the humans and cooperate an attack on Kelmarane. The humans betray them, and they have to kill them (or maybe the humans all die, or maybe the humans decide to become friends with the gnolls).
I think that could have been interesting, but I do not know if it would have worked for more than Part 1 (haven't read number 2 yet).
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1. None of the campaign traits (maybe the slave one) really work well with a Gnoll PC.
3. As noted above, Almah would probably not hire on a Gnoll.
The slave trait was one that jumped out at me as well as a possibility for a gnoll PC. Almah wouldn't be so much letting one into the party so much as finding a use for a slave she may or may not want.
Another thought could be that a gnoll PC was hired for expertise at dealing with their own kind - either through negotiation or as an expert on killing them (takes one to know one). A gnoll PC could have been hired to translate or deal with gnoll prisoners.
Thanks everyone for your responses. I found the opportunity to work in a non-standard player race into this AP quite interesting. Keep the thoughts rolling!
How about just replacing Dashki with a PC Gnoll?
Since the Gnoll is +1CL, doesn't that mean that a Gnoll PC will only be one level behind?
That would make sense since they are only a CR1 creature. I am thinking about trying to run one who would become a BBn at 2nd and continue down that path. The group will be using the beta rules and the Gnoll is actually slightly less powerful than a 1st level human barbarian, which I found surprising. If he is two levels behind he would be significantly less powerful.
Since the Gnoll is +1CL, doesn't that mean that a Gnoll PC will only be one level behind?
The gnoll would also have two racial hit dice, which some people consider to be a bonus but which I always treat as a penalty. Unless you're an outsider or a dragon, racial hit dice pretty much suck. I factored in the racial hit dice in my calculations above.
Basically, a gnoll doesn't even get her first class level until she has earned three thousand experience points, and by then most people have earned their third class level.
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Since the Gnoll is +1CL, doesn't that mean that a Gnoll PC will only be one level behind?The gnoll would also have two racial hit dice, which some people consider to be a bonus but which I always treat as a penalty. Unless you're an outsider or a dragon, racial hit dice pretty much suck. I factored in the racial hit dice in my calculations above.
Basically, a gnoll doesn't even get her first class level until she has earned three thousand experience points, and by then most people have earned their third class level.
Tbug, thanks for the input. Looking at your calculations, I would be inclined to dismiss the level adjustment, particularly if playing using Pathfinder Beta.
ya know once you drop the racial HD they aren't that bad
# Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2.
# Size Medium.
# A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
# Darkvision out to 60 feet.
# +1 AC
not really all that bad , look at say elf or a dwarf
I have a gnoll PC in my upcoming campaign.
He's a slave who was bought young by a benevolent owner, then bequeathed to Garavel/Almah after his owner's death.
Should be interesting, will post more developments here when they arise.
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I have a gnoll PC in my upcoming campaign.
He's a slave who was bought young by a benevolent owner, then bequeathed to Garavel/Almah after his owner's death.
Should be interesting, will post more developments here when they arise.
Cool! Was hoping someone would have a player who would give it try. May have to push it at my table once we finish RotRL...
ya know once you drop the racial HD they aren't that bad
# Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2.
# Size Medium.
# A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
# Darkvision out to 60 feet.
# +1 ACnot really all that bad , look at say elf or a dwarf
I was thinking the same thing; it's quite similar to a half-orc, really (but with an extra +2/-2).
That is how I allowed it for my player who made a Gnoll ranger
You know, it didn't occur to me until just now, but one of the hidden advantages of a gnoll PC is that first several encounters in this AP will have little to no detrimental effect on the PC like they do on other races.
This isn't a 'no-go' by any means though, just something the DM would need to be prepared for.
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You know, it didn't occur to me until just now, but one of the hidden advantages of a gnoll PC is that first several encounters in this AP will have little to no detrimental effect on the PC like they do on other races.
This isn't a 'no-go' by any means though, just something the DM would need to be prepared for.
Good catch, Sean. Didn't think about that. That particular advantage looks like it pops up a few more times in the AP. Might require a small amount of retooling to keep the encounters interesting for a gnoll PC.
You know, it didn't occur to me until just now, but one of the hidden advantages of a gnoll PC is that first several encounters in this AP will have little to no detrimental effect on the PC like they do on other races.
This isn't a 'no-go' by any means though, just something the DM would need to be prepared for.
Can you be more specific under a spoiler tag? I'm not sure of what you are referring to.
Can you be more specific under a spoiler tag? I'm not sure of what you are referring to.
Yes, absolutely.
Sean Mahoney
Can you be more specific under a spoiler tag? I'm not sure of what you are referring to.Yes, absolutely.
** spoiler omitted **
Sean Mahoney
That's strange... on page 17 it says
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Can you be more specific under a spoiler tag? I'm not sure of what you are referring to.Yes, absolutely.
** spoiler omitted **
Sean Mahoney
That's strange... on page 17 it says ** spoiler omitted **
Ive been playing a gnoll in the cormyr series from WOTC..the DM just said: Use half orc stats..but you are a gnoll. It worked like a charm.
(except the character speaks gnoll isntead of orc, and isnt considered an orc for magical item effects)
just to be a little different, the PC does get a +2 racial bonus to survival skill checks.