Idiot's Guide to 4E


4th Edition

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Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Matthew Koelbl wrote:


Really, I'd just tally up your powers and see which group (weapon or implement) you have more of, and go with the appropriate Expertise feat for that.

There is actually an upcoming feat called Focused Expertise, which showed up in one of the recent PHB3 Playtests in Dragon Magazine. It is just like the current Expertise feats, except you have to choose a weapon category you can also use as an implement - but you then get the bonus when using it as either.

So it solves the dilemma for bards with songblades, sorcerers with daggers, swordmages, etc.

Not sure if your DM would let you use it (since it has only shown up in an online playtest article thus far), but if so, does solve the problem handily. :)

Actually, with Focused Expertise you pick a weapon, not a weapon group (ie "Longsword" instead of "Heavy Blade") I just checked in the character builder.

But there's a thought, after the next character builder update, it should be available in the free version.

Scarab Sages

A player wishes to take the Pact Initiate Feat (multiclass warlock) and take the Vestige Pact (from Arcane Power.) The vestige pact at-will power, Eyes of the Vestige, lets the caster place his Warlock's Curse on the target of that power, or someone else standing nearby.

Now, the question. If the caster has gotten this power by multiclassing, does he have a Warlock's Curse to place? He certainly does not have the class feature, so could not otherwise place this curse, but does he get to place a curse 1/encounter as a result of this power?

Thanks for any help.


This probably fits in this thread...

We played 4th edition for the first time last night. We had one question we couldnt find as easily as we expected (and are not big fans of stopping to hunt through rulebooks). If I am proficient in a weapon, do I get to use it's proficiency bonus when I use any power or does the proficiency bonus only apply when using some powers (like the basic melee attack or something)?


Steve Geddes wrote:

This probably fits in this thread...

We played 4th edition for the first time last night. We had one question we couldnt find as easily as we expected (and are not big fans of stopping to hunt through rulebooks). If I am proficient in a weapon, do I get to use it's proficiency bonus when I use any power or does the proficiency bonus only apply when using some powers (like the basic melee attack or something)?

The weapon proficiency bonus applies when you use any power with the "weapon" keyword. Some classes allow you to use an appropriate weapon for "implement" keyword powers, and in those cases the proficiency bonus does not apply.


agarrett wrote:

A player wishes to take the Pact Initiate Feat (multiclass warlock) and take the Vestige Pact (from Arcane Power.) The vestige pact at-will power, Eyes of the Vestige, lets the caster place his Warlock's Curse on the target of that power, or someone else standing nearby.

Now, the question. If the caster has gotten this power by multiclassing, does he have a Warlock's Curse to place? He certainly does not have the class feature, so could not otherwise place this curse, but does he get to place a curse 1/encounter as a result of this power?

Thanks for any help.

Technically, the player would have no Warlock's Curse to place, so that part of the power would not function.

Spoiler:
However, as a DM, I would definitely allow the player to place a Warlock's Curse that last's until the end of his next turn, just like the ranger multiclass feat.


Sebastrd wrote:
The weapon proficiency bonus applies when you use any power with the "weapon" keyword. Some classes allow you to use an appropriate weapon for "implement" keyword powers, and in those cases the proficiency bonus does not apply.

Cheers - pretty much what we decided it must've been.


agarrett wrote:

A player wishes to take the Pact Initiate Feat (multiclass warlock) and take the Vestige Pact (from Arcane Power.) The vestige pact at-will power, Eyes of the Vestige, lets the caster place his Warlock's Curse on the target of that power, or someone else standing nearby.

Now, the question. If the caster has gotten this power by multiclassing, does he have a Warlock's Curse to place? He certainly does not have the class feature, so could not otherwise place this curse, but does he get to place a curse 1/encounter as a result of this power?

Thanks for any help.

It is a tricky situation.

By the rules themselves: No, you don't get to place a Warlock's Curse, if you don't already have it available (such as by having the other Warlock Multiclass feat that gives you Warlock's Curse 1/encounter).

In addition, Eyes of Vestige also usually has an extra benefit based on what Vestige you currently have - but for a multiclassed character, assuming you haven't also swapped in a Vestige Pact Daily Power and used it to gain a Vestige, you don't have any Vestige you are connected to be default.

Without either of those, it becomes a pretty weak choice.

However, you don't want to go too far the other way. Letting it place your Warlock's curse anyway - even if just until the end of your next turn - is probably too powerful. Since there is already a feat that gives one use of Warlock's Curse, you don't want this one to both give a power and the Curse.

My advice, honestly, would be to ignore the ability to place your curse somewhere - just ignore that part of the power. Instead, have the person taking the feat select one of the default Vestiges to be 'connected' to, and let them get that extra benefit when using the power. That should make it useful while keeping it on par with all the other at-wills you can get via multiclassing.


I would let them curse the target, but I would rule he has no ability to inflict extra damage using the curse. Probably a weak choice except for specific builds.


Another idiot question:

My mage uses a wand of accuracy. If he finds a different implement (like a staff or orb or somesuch) is there a way to "switch" the implement mastery you chose at level one? Alternatively, is there a feat or something which lets him be proficient in two implements and if so can he use both an orb and a wand (for example) in the same encounter?


Steve Geddes wrote:

Another idiot question:

My mage uses a wand of accuracy. If he finds a different implement (like a staff or orb or somesuch) is there a way to "switch" the implement mastery you chose at level one? Alternatively, is there a feat or something which lets him be proficient in two implements and if so can he use both an orb and a wand (for example) in the same encounter?

1. Not yet

2. If you just want to *use* two (and stack the +dmg), you want dual implement spellcaster (Arcane Power). If you want to get a second implement mastery class feature, you want Second Implement (PHB). Sometimes, dependinng on your build, you may want both.


bugleyman wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

Another idiot question:

My mage uses a wand of accuracy. If he finds a different implement (like a staff or orb or somesuch) is there a way to "switch" the implement mastery you chose at level one? Alternatively, is there a feat or something which lets him be proficient in two implements and if so can he use both an orb and a wand (for example) in the same encounter?

1. Not yet

2. If you just want to *use* two (and stack the +dmg), you want dual implement spellcaster (Arcane Power). If you want to get a second implement mastery class feature, you want Second Implement (PHB). Sometimes, dependinng on your build, you may want both.

Thanks - I meant the second implement option. It's kind of disappointing I can't do anything until level eleven then. Am I right that any orbs or staves are pretty much valueless to me until then?


Steve Geddes wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

Another idiot question:

My mage uses a wand of accuracy. If he finds a different implement (like a staff or orb or somesuch) is there a way to "switch" the implement mastery you chose at level one? Alternatively, is there a feat or something which lets him be proficient in two implements and if so can he use both an orb and a wand (for example) in the same encounter?

1. Not yet

2. If you just want to *use* two (and stack the +dmg), you want dual implement spellcaster (Arcane Power). If you want to get a second implement mastery class feature, you want Second Implement (PHB). Sometimes, dependinng on your build, you may want both.
Thanks - I meant the second implement option. It's kind of disappointing I can't do anything until level eleven then. Am I right that any orbs or staves are pretty much valueless to me until then?

Not exactly valueless, but probably not worth the opportunity cost. Once you've burned wand of accuracy, you can always break out a second implement to give you extra flexibility for your item daily.


Thanks in advance to the 4th edition gurus. We had something come up last week which we couldnt find the solution to on the spot. Essentially one player was under several effects - I think the one which mattered was he was stunned and was unable to perform any actions. We wondered what would happen if our fighter used 'Covering attack' which allows an ally to shift two squares.

We figured the stunned guy couldnt shift, since he basically couldnt do anything, however one player pointed out that it didnt say "Ally can shift as a free action" so therefore the shift wasnt an action and should have been allowed.

I don't know if I've provided enough information to really answer (and confess I couldve got the terms wrong) but can someone clarify the general query - if a power allows an ally to shift, does that shift constitute an action?


Steve Geddes wrote:

Thanks in advance to the 4th edition gurus. We had something come up last week which we couldnt find the solution to on the spot. Essentially one player was under several effects - I think the one which mattered was he was stunned and was unable to perform any actions. We wondered what would happen if our fighter used 'Covering attack' which allows an ally to shift two squares.

We figured the stunned guy couldnt shift, since he basically couldnt do anything, however one player pointed out that it didnt say "Ally can shift as a free action" so therefore the shift wasnt an action and should have been allowed.

I don't know if I've provided enough information to really answer (and confess I couldve got the terms wrong) but can someone clarify the general query - if a power allows an ally to shift, does that shift constitute an action?

I understand what you're asking, but I don't think there's any official rule on the matter. A stunned character cannot take actions, but the shift granted by this power doesn't explicitly require any kind of action. By the rules as written, a stunned character can definitely benefit from this power. The DM is within his rights to say that stunned characters cannot shift, of course, but I honestly can't see this leading to any balance issues. If you're having trouble visualizing it, you can describe the fighter spinning his target so an outstretched arm smacks his ally and causes him to stagger into the desired spot (or something). It's the sort of thing that would look stylish in a movie fight scene, and that's always good in my book. Hope this helps!


Scott Betts wrote:
I understand what you're asking, but I don't think there's any official rule on the matter. A stunned character cannot take actions, but the shift granted by this power doesn't explicitly require any kind of action. By the rules as written, a stunned character can definitely benefit from this power. The DM is within his rights to say that stunned characters cannot shift, of course, but I honestly can't see this leading to any balance issues. If you're having trouble visualizing it, you can describe the fighter spinning his target so an outstretched arm smacks his ally and causes him to stagger into the desired spot (or something). It's the sort of thing that would look stylish in a movie fight scene, and that's always good in my book. Hope this helps!

Cheers. We're not too fussed about balance (since we tend to play suboptimal characters most of the time anyhow) but were more interested in interpretation for the future. Thanks for your help. :)


Steve Geddes wrote:
Thanks in advance to the 4th edition gurus. We had something come up last week which we couldnt find the solution to on the spot. Essentially one player was under several effects - I think the one which mattered was he was stunned and was unable to perform any actions. We wondered what would happen if our fighter used 'Covering attack' which allows an ally to shift two squares.

Just to add my two cents, I don't see a problem with allowing the shift in this case. "Stunned" doesn't mean "paralyzed", it just means the character is bewildered or had the wind knocked out of them. They can still move if pushed or pulled, or even commanded. They just respond without thinking or realizing what they're doing.


Sebastrd wrote:
Just to add my two cents, I don't see a problem with allowing the shift in this case. "Stunned" doesn't mean "paralyzed", it just means the character is bewildered or had the wind knocked out of them. They can still move if pushed or pulled, or even commanded. They just respond without thinking or realizing what they're doing.

Cheers. It seemed odd to us to allow someone to shift in someone else's move when they can't even perform a free action in their own. I think part of our problem is none of us really know the 4th edition rules well, so we're not yet comfortable with making rulings on the fly.


Ok - I have another idiot question from our game last week.

The shield spell (level 2 wizard utility power I think?) is an immediate interrupt action triggered when you are hit by an attack. It gives you a +4 to all defences until the end of your next turn.

Does it apply to the attack which triggered it? (Ie it might turn a hit into a near-miss, thus meaning that the 'trigger' never happened) Or do you take full damage from the attack which triggered it and then receive a bonus on any future attacks you may suffer until the end of your round?

Also, just for completeness, are we correct in assuming that such a power is always voluntary? Ie - just because the trigger happens, you don't have to use it if you dont want?


Will 4e run on my computer?

(I keed, I keed!) ;)


Steve Geddes wrote:

Ok - I have another idiot question from our game last week.

The shield spell (level 2 wizard utility power I think?) is an immediate interrupt action triggered when you are hit by an attack. It gives you a +4 to all defences until the end of your next turn.

Does it apply to the attack which triggered it? (Ie it might turn a hit into a near-miss, thus meaning that the 'trigger' never happened) Or do you take full damage from the attack which triggered it and then receive a bonus on any future attacks you may suffer until the end of your round?

There are two types of immediate actions: immediate interrupts, and immediate reactions. Shield, as you pointed out, is an immediate interrupt. Immediate interrupts occur before the action that triggered them. In this case, if your Wizard is hit by an attack, you can elect to use your immediate action to interrupt that attack by casting Shield. You would receive a +4 bonus to all defenses, and then the attack that triggered your Shield would resolve. So yes, Shield's bonus applies to the attack that triggered it.

For reference, from the Player's Handbook page 268:

"Interrupt: An immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves. If an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost. For example, an enemy makes a melee attack against you, but you use a power that lets you shift away as an immediate interrupt. If your enemy can no longer reach you, the enemy’s attack action is lost."

Steve Geddes wrote:
Also, just for completeness, are we correct in assuming that such a power is always voluntary? Ie - just because the trigger happens, you don't have to use it if you dont want?

That's correct. The use of an immediate action is voluntary.


Thanks for that (both the explanation and the reference). I didnt realise there were two kinds of immediate actions. Cheers


Steve Geddes wrote:

Ok - I have another idiot question from our game last week.

The shield spell (level 2 wizard utility power I think?) is an immediate interrupt action triggered when you are hit by an attack. It gives you a +4 to all defences until the end of your next turn...

FYI (not trying to be pedantic), IIRC shield gives the bonus to reflex and AC, but not to fort and will.


bugleyman wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

Ok - I have another idiot question from our game last week.

The shield spell (level 2 wizard utility power I think?) is an immediate interrupt action triggered when you are hit by an attack. It gives you a +4 to all defences until the end of your next turn...

FYI (not trying to be pedantic), IIRC shield gives the bonus to reflex and AC, but not to fort and will.

This is totally correct. That'll teach me not to read power descriptions. Good catch.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've played the Skill Challenge system as written, rolling initiative and making the skill checks etc. I have to say it almost made me nix it altogether. However, I hear that some have adjusted it in a fashion that doesn't kill a potentially fun RP or chase scene, or what have you. I'm quite curious as to how others have handled it because it's probably the single most loathed mechanic I have seen in 4e as written.

I know it's not quite a question but...


bugleyman wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:

Ok - I have another idiot question from our game last week.

The shield spell (level 2 wizard utility power I think?) is an immediate interrupt action triggered when you are hit by an attack. It gives you a +4 to all defences until the end of your next turn...

FYI (not trying to be pedantic), IIRC shield gives the bonus to reflex and AC, but not to fort and will.

Yeah cheers - we played it right, I just typed it out wrong from memory.


Devil of Roses wrote:
I'm quite curious as to how others have handled it because it's probably the single most loathed mechanic I have seen in 4e as written.

What we've done with skill challenges is to remove the failure option with some kind of stacking penalty (this can be damage inflicted, or some kind of penalty to future rolls).

If you're trying to disarm a trap with it, maybe you strip a screw or damage something important and take a +2 difficulty to future mechanical attempts to disarm it. If you're trying to navigate through a blizzard, maybe you take damage from cold and exhaustion. If you're trying to convince the baron to send his armies and you fail enough times his mounting frustration, or better argument, makes your future attempts to pursuade him harder.

The point is, you can retry the challenge as many times as you want. You always need to get so many successes before so many failures--but there isn't any kind of arbitrary "failure" where you just lose the challenge. You try until you give up or can't anymore. It also makes them into something where you can actually roleplay them--rather than just rolling a few times and it's over.

The first D&D Game Day this year there was a skill challenge where this little girl, Solphie, is hiding in town somewhere and you have to find her. I actually used the town map from Trollhaunt and every time the PC's succeeded I would narrow down what part of town she was in. The tipped over apple cart suggests she's on the left side of the road--that sort of thing. If they failed enough rolls, she'd get the sense they were close to finding her and she'd scrabble through a hole and disappear and they'd have to start tracking her all over again. It was really fun.


One of my biggest suggestions regarding skill challenges if to try and figure out what to do if PCs want to assist each other. If you simply let them choose one person and inflate his results with assists, success will be nearly guaranteed.

One of the common methods is allow characters to assist, but make it a specific action on their part - one that uses the standard DCs of the skill challenge, provides a +2 bonus to the next skill if they succeed, a -2 penalty instead if they fail, and doesn't give a direct Skill Challenge Success or Failure.

I've also seen Skill Challenges that use 'Group' Checks - say, the party is trying to sneak past some guards. Everyone in the party makes a Stealth check, and the party gets a success as long as half of them succeed - representing the more skilled among them helping the dudes in armor, creating distractions, etc. This means that having one person with a bad check doesn't completely impare the group, but similarly, one awesome Stealth person can't completely dominate the challenge.

I recently ran a challenge that represented a very long-term effort: the group was trying to hunt down the location of a villain hideout, and this involved visiting various towns, following up on rumors, negotiating with secret agents, talking with sages, researching on their own, and eventually following tracks in the woods and so forth.

So a very complex scene, with room for everyone to do stuff - but since they were usually doing one task at a time, people generally wanted to assist the main person who was good at that task.

The way I handled this: I ignore the bonuses from assists for the purpose of seeing if the primary check itself succeeded. However, instead, enough bonuses would give 'extra' success - either unlocking extra information, reducing the time it took for the task, giving them guidance for other skills to use, or any number of other benefits.

That way everyone got to lend a hand at activities they would be working on as a group, but the primary success came down to individual rolls.

It worked out extremely well, though I think would only work for 'extended scenes' - skill challenges that represent quick and immediate action would probably not get much benefit from this approach.


Ok, here is my dirt stupid question....

So far, I'm having great fun making a halfling Rouge. With his acrobatic scores, he's going to be climbing everything. First up the cliff, in the tree branches, or up onto the third floor balcony.

A halfling gets an advantage if they use a sling or crossbow. There is a certain dramatic flair for a sling, but it only does 1d4. and a crossbow takes a minor action and does 1d6 and has a longer range.
Why would a character want a sling?

A halfling is suited for a dagger, short sword or a rapier(maybe?). A rapier would be very dramatic, though possibly as tall as my halfling.
Is there any reason a first level halfling rouge shouldn't have a rapier? A halfling is already small, so are daggers be a bad choice, over using a short sword?

How many weapons can I use and/or be good at, as a first level? Can I carry and use a rapier, with daggers in reserve, a crossbow with a sling in reserve?


What book is the "Rouge" class explained in again?


Jas wrote:
How many weapons can I use and/or be good at, as a first level? Can I carry and use a rapier, with daggers in reserve, a crossbow with a sling in reserve?

Everything listed as a rogue weapon gives you a proficiency bonus with it. If you buy a feat you can get the bonus for any other weapon you want. Most of your powers require light blades or ranged weapons, so that's something to keep in mind. That said, even using a weapon you have no proficiency with--as long as you're big enough to weild it you can use it--you just don't get the bonus for using it.

Jas wrote:
Why would a character want a sling?

They're super cheap and the ammo is free. Sometimes people spend so much money on everything else--but still want SOME ranged ability. Slings are nice for that. Plus there are some folks who don't get as many options as far as ranged weapons go, and historically slings are their go to weapons. That said, as a rogue, you might think about shurikens. You get the proficiency with them, and when you use them as a rogue, they do d6s instead of d4s.

Jas wrote:
Is there any reason a first level halfling rouge shouldn't have a rapier?

Well you don't get the bonus for a rapier, so you'd either have to miss out on the +3 or get a feat to gain proficiency with it. Short swords are good right out of the box.

Jas wrote:
A halfling is already small, so are daggers be a bad choice, over using a short sword?

Daggers do less damage (but not much less--just a potential 1-2 pts off a high roll), but as rogue you get a +1 to hit with daggers. So it's a trade of maybe more damage for a loss of a little accuracy.


Jas wrote:

Ok, here is my dirt stupid question....

So far, I'm having great fun making a halfling Rouge. With his acrobatic scores, he's going to be climbing everything. First up the cliff, in the tree branches, or up onto the third floor balcony.

A halfling gets an advantage if they use a sling or crossbow. There is a certain dramatic flair for a sling, but it only does 1d4. and a crossbow takes a minor action and does 1d6 and has a longer range.
Why would a character want a sling?

A halfling is suited for a dagger, short sword or a rapier(maybe?). A rapier would be very dramatic, though possibly as tall as my halfling.
Is there any reason a first level halfling rouge shouldn't have a rapier? A halfling is already small, so are daggers be a bad choice, over using a short sword?

How many weapons can I use and/or be good at, as a first level? Can I carry and use a rapier, with daggers in reserve, a crossbow with a sling in reserve?

Rogues automatically are proficient with Daggers, Hand Crossbows, Shurikens, Slings, and Short Swords. You can use other weapons, you just don't get their proficiency bonus to hit with them, so they would not be as accurate. You could spend a feat to get proficiency with a Rapier, and be able to use it, daggers, a hand crossbow and a sling as needed. A regular crossbow is too large for halflings to use.

However, my thoughts:

1) Daggers are just fine for halflings - they are just as effective for you as for other sized characters. Being Small only means that certain larger weapons (greatswords) can't be used, and others (longswords) require two hands for you to use. Rogues get an extra bonus to hit with Daggers in general, making them a very effective choice. I think your best bet is a halfling focused around dagger use - that way you are just as good in melee or at range, as you can scurry up trees and chuck daggers from above, or sneak up to enemies in combat and stab them in vital places.

2) What rules are you using for this? Some of the things you mention don't match up with the standard 4E rules - halflings don't normally get an advantage with slings/crossbows, slings deal 1d6 damage and have the same range (and damage) as hand crossbows, while normal crossbows (which have a longer range and higher damage) can't be used by halflings. Are you dealing with some house rules for this character?


Pop'N'Fresh
Uhhhh, It's in the Player's Manual? Oh I get it. RTFM.

Grimcleaver
I don't get a bonus for rapier? [page flip...page flip...page flip...] Oh, guess not. Ok, no rapier. Reading up on shurikens, they look effective.
Looks like some combination of short sword, daggers, shurikens and sling.

Matthew Koelbl
Another vote for short swords, daggers and shurikens.
I'm trying to use straight 4.0 but probably having legacy 3.5 in my head carry over. I'm reading these rules on the bus so I must have missed something.


Jas wrote:

Pop'N'Fresh

Uhhhh, It's in the Player's Manual? Oh I get it. RTFM.

I think he was actually criticizing your spelling. A Rogue is a skilled and dextrous warrior adept at both finding enemy weak spots and dealing with the arts of stealth and other skills. A Rouge is a type of make-up. It's a common mistake, and as such, people often poke a bit of fun at it.

Quote:

Another vote for short swords, daggers and shurikens.

I'm trying to use straight 4.0 but probably having legacy 3.5 in my head carry over. I'm reading these rules on the bus so I must have missed something.

Yeah, I figured it was along those lines - I know I've had stuff slip in from earlier editions without realizing what I was thinking about. But yeah, I think Daggers and Shurikens are the way to go. And spending a feat on the Rapier isn't a bad choice at all, if it fits the character.


Rogue != Rouge! HA. I even used to live near the Rogue river!
That's what I get for spelling phonetically and then mispronouncing words.

>> And spending a feat on the Rapier isn't a bad choice at all, if it fits the character.
I decided to spend the feat on
Weapon Focus -- Light Blade
The +1 damage for daggers, short swords and shurikens seemed like a good idea.


Devil of Roses wrote:

I've played the Skill Challenge system as written, rolling initiative and making the skill checks etc. I have to say it almost made me nix it altogether. However, I hear that some have adjusted it in a fashion that doesn't kill a potentially fun RP or chase scene, or what have you. I'm quite curious as to how others have handled it because it's probably the single most loathed mechanic I have seen in 4e as written.

I know it's not quite a question but...

Try looking at the various skill challenged in recent Dungeon Adventures for some ideas on their potential and what can be done with them.

Otherwise you just might try playing around with presentation and such. Its perfectly possible to make even exciting combat boring (which is why D&D is not usually much of a spectator sport), a lot of whats going to make a Skill Challenge exciting is wrapped around presentation - your using the dice to determine success or failure on skill checks which is not to far removed from using dice to determine if a sword hits. Presented well, and with something tangible on the line, they can be very fun.

I think there is a tendency to softball Skill Challenges (make the first ones players encounter) not to big a deal but I think this is the wrong approach. It emphasizes their dice rolling nature without providing a dramatic backdrop for those dice rolls. 6 successes before 3 failures to see if you can scrap the gum off the bottom of your shoe is not a recipe for excitement and tension at the table.


Steve Geddes wrote:


Yeah cheers - we played it right, I just typed it out wrong from memory.

Oddly, I think it probably should add to fort, but that's another story...

;-)


Can someone can explain to me what's up with the skill DC?
I never realized until a few moment ago, consulting the last Update to the PH and DMG, that the DC by level have all changes... There is probably a reason but I can't find any...
This change hit me when I compared two level 2 Eberron module...
I've run Kyber's harvest last week with skill DC in the 12-17 range for a level 2 party... everything run just fine...
Reading Seeker of the Ashen Crown, all DC are so low that I can't figure how a group of PC could possibly not succed 95% of the time... For exemple, Encounter 3: Dragon's Maw, got a level 2 solo Trap with Athletics and Thievery checks ranging from 5-10.. A level 2 thief with Dex 18 and the Thievery Skills got a +10 skills bonus... He could just not miss any skills checks...
Am I supposed to increased all skills checks by +5? If not, why bother writing skills challenge that no one could possibly miss?
Passive Perception = 10 + skill bonus... and almost every Encounter Perception checks in the first quarter of the adventure are DC 5 or DC 8...! A character need a Wisdom score of 1 to miss that kind of checks...
So is there something I've missed? (I'm pretty sure I need to add +5, but I would like to know why I need to do that now)...

Thanks!


Genasi are allowed in 4gotton Realms RPGA, right?


etrigan wrote:

Can someone can explain to me what's up with the skill DC?

I never realized until a few moment ago, consulting the last Update to the PH and DMG, that the DC by level have all changes... There is probably a reason but I can't find any...
This change hit me when I compared two level 2 Eberron module...
I've run Kyber's harvest last week with skill DC in the 12-17 range for a level 2 party... everything run just fine...
Reading Seeker of the Ashen Crown, all DC are so low that I can't figure how a group of PC could possibly not succed 95% of the time... For exemple, Encounter 3: Dragon's Maw, got a level 2 solo Trap with Athletics and Thievery checks ranging from 5-10.. A level 2 thief with Dex 18 and the Thievery Skills got a +10 skills bonus... He could just not miss any skills checks...
Am I supposed to increased all skills checks by +5? If not, why bother writing skills challenge that no one could possibly miss?
Passive Perception = 10 + skill bonus... and almost every Encounter Perception checks in the first quarter of the adventure are DC 5 or DC 8...! A character need a Wisdom score of 1 to miss that kind of checks...
So is there something I've missed? (I'm pretty sure I need to add +5, but I would like to know why I need to do that now)...

Thanks!

Seeker of the Ashen Crown's DCs are probably too low, then. A DC of 5 is the easiest base check DC at levels 1-3. Most check DCs should use a base of 10 (higher if the PC is expected to be trained, have assistance, or be particularly well-prepared for the check). Hard DCs should be set at a base of 15 at those levels, again increased as circumstances warrant.


GreatKhanArtist wrote:
Genasi are allowed in 4gotton Realms RPGA, right?

Yes.

Your first resource for questions about Living Forgotten Realms games should always be the LFR Character Creation Guide. It is definitive, up-to-date, and official. It outlines all allowed sources for the campaign, and notes which rule elements are not allowed.

The Exchange

GELATINOUS CUBE

As far as the Gelatinous Cube goes, You would only be absorbed if you die or are unconcious or do not bac away faster than it is comming.

You should take corrosive damage from initial contact + digestion damage per round until you die.


We are playing through H1 (so I guess this is worth a mild spoiler warning) and had a question arise this week regarding how magic items daily powers work:

We found a sword with a daily power that,when you drop an enemy to zero hit points, you can regain a healing surge as a free action. There was some debate as to whether you had to inflict that damage with the sword or whether anything would do. We ended up concluding that (since it didnt specifically state that the damage had to be done by a power with the weapon keyword) if you dropped the enemy with a ranged attack or somesuch you could still activate the power, even if the sword wasnt used in the attack. We did rule that you had to be wielding the weapon at the time though. Were we correct/reasonable on both counts?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: We also wondered whether you had to be proficient with the weapon. Is there a rule covering that?


Steve Geddes wrote:

We are playing through H1 (so I guess this is worth a mild spoiler warning) and had a question arise this week regarding how magic items daily powers work:

We found a sword with a daily power that,when you drop an enemy to zero hit points, you can regain a healing surge as a free action. There was some debate as to whether you had to inflict that damage with the sword or whether anything would do. We ended up concluding that (since it didnt specifically state that the damage had to be done by a power with the weapon keyword) if you dropped the enemy with a ranged attack or somesuch you could still activate the power, even if the sword wasnt used in the attack. We did rule that you had to be wielding the weapon at the time though. Were we correct/reasonable on both counts?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: We also wondered whether you had to be proficient with the weapon. Is there a rule covering that?

The weapon you're talking about is the Aecris Weapon (for those with Compendium access, the link is here). You ruled correctly. The weapon does not need to inflict the damage that triggers the power's use. The PC does need to be "wearing" the item (holding it in a hand, in this case) in order to use the power, but the character does not need to be proficient in its use.

You can find rules on magic item powers and their use on page 226 of the Player's Handbook. As a rule of thumb, if you're wondering about whether something is restricted in some way, unless the rules state otherwise it is generally allowed. Cheers!


Scott Betts wrote:

The weapon you're talking about is the Aecris Weapon (for those with Compendium access, the link is here). You ruled correctly. The weapon does not need to inflict the damage that triggers the power's use. The PC does need to be "wearing" the item (holding it in a hand, in this case) in order to use the power, but the character does not need to be proficient in its use.

You can find rules on magic item powers and their use on page 226 of the Player's Handbook. As a rule of thumb, if you're wondering about whether something is restricted in some way, unless the rules state otherwise it is generally allowed. Cheers!

Thanks Scott - I appreciate your willingness to help. We figured that was it but don't have much in the way of an intuitive understanding of 4th edition rules yet.


In 4th edition, does a wielder of a two-handed weapon add 1.5 times their strength bonus to damage rolls? Or am I thinking of previous editions...

Maybe I'm thinking of the Power Attack feat that multiplies the damage bonus by 1.5 for two-handed weapons.

Thank you.


Galdor the Great wrote:
In 4th edition, does a wielder of a two-handed weapon add 1.5 times their strength bonus to damage rolls? Or am I thinking of previous editions...

Wielding a two-handed weapon in two hands confers no benefit other than allowing you to use two-handed weapons.

HOWEVER, if your weapon has the Versatile property it can be wielded in either one or two hands. If you wield such a weapon in both hands, you gain +1 to damage rolls with that weapon.

See page 217 of the Player's Handbook for full information on the Versatile weapon property.

Galdor the Great wrote:
Maybe I'm thinking of the Power Attack feat that multiplies the damage bonus by 1.5 for two-handed weapons.

In 4th Edition, power attack gives you the option to take a -2 penalty to attack rolls for a damage boost. You can find the table for how much extra damage you gain on page 199 of the Player's Handbook. Note that the extra damage increases slightly if you are using a two-handed weapon.


I have another question for the patient...

We fought some hobgoblins last night who spent a lot of the battle marking us. We just assumed that meant that if we shifted, attacked someone else, etcetera when adjacent to them we would be the subject of an attack (a la the fighter mark). However, it occurred to us afterwards that other classes like the warden (I think?) also 'mark' their opponents but dont have the same effect that the fighter gets. I cant seem to find it in the monster listing - how can one determine what the effect of being marked by a hobgoblin is (or any other monster which marks for that matter)?

Thanks in advance. I suspect this is a dumb question, but that's why I like this thread - dumb questions are encouraged.


No, the fighter's "attack you if you don't attack me" is part of the class.

It took me forever to find this as well, but it is in the PHB in the combat section. 'Marked' just means you take a -2 penalty to hit anyone other than the monster who marked you.


While there isn't a definition of marked in the MM, you will find it in the list of conditions on page 277 of the PHB. Unless the specific hobgoblins also have abilities that can trigger off actions their marked target may take, then it simply means that the marked target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't target the hobgoblin that marked it. Nothing more, nothing less.


Cheers - I had a feeling we were doing it wrong.

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