Ideally, whomever was watching us would see us buff up, do the same, and then watch as both buff timers wore off and then they were out of their daily buff spells but we had back-ups ready to go...
Deliciously paranoid... and clever. I love trying to outmanoeuvre NPCs that way.
Unfortunately you need a GM who is willing to play along with it. Many GMs simply run adventures by the book, regardless of the players' elaborate precautions. That is to say, if it's written down that an NPC is in a certain place and has readied themselves with said buffs, then that's what the players will encounter whenever they actually open the door. It can be terribly frustrating as a player, but there you have it.
I guess I should add that "the door" was all but flashing a neon sign, and we had been near it before (it led to a region of a massive sandbox dungeon) and had noticed the scry sensor watching us every time we got close to it. A little legwork outside the dungeon got us intel on who might be behind that door, so we weren't just wishfully thinking.
I understand they made a few changes.
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I understand they made a few changes.
** spoiler omitted **
They also changed the tactics section so that she is no longer going to bullrush anyone she petrifies off the tower and smash them into teeny pieces.
I think they are good changes. She is still a very strong opponent at that level, especially considering the context in which she is faced.
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I understand they made a few changes.
** spoiler omitted **
My copy is at home, but the did tone her down. Which was needed given she was fighting a wounded party (they had just fought the golem, a major trap, and bunch of stalkers on the way) in absolutely ideal conditions for her.
When I ran it back in the day for my group I swapped her and her sister and it worked pretty well. When I looked at that block I couldn't figure out what they were thinking given the party level.
TPK machine.
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My group will soon encounter Xanesha. Do you think I should use the first or the second edition "TPKBoss" ?
3.5 Xanesha will be the more memorable. But you risk a TPK. I threw in that the tower was beginning to crumble and collapse before Xanesha killed off everyone. In the end, one party member died, and one almost died, when everyone including Xanesha escaped from the top of the Clock Tower. Awesome fun though! She is now seen as one of the great BBEGs of all time. So to answer your question, it is up to you to make a choice if you want a tough encounter or a near impossible encounter.
Good luck!
Mazra
My group will soon encounter Xanesha. Do you think I should use the first or the second edition "TPKBoss" ?
I guess it could all depend on what your group usually enjoys and how their expectations are calibrated. For example I saw a thread where a DM described an encounter from Slumbering Tsar, and people were outraged about how unfair it was. But that adventure is very popular among people who enjoy a certain style.
I haven't run or played in the encounter with Xanesha, but I have run some adventures by the same author, published in non Paizo stuff. I remember a 1st level adventure he wrote that had a CR 5 scythe wielding wood golem that needed to be dealt with. Obviously that could have been a TPK but I've run it three times with only one PC death occurring. The reason that adventure worked was because it did a good job of setting the mood and conveying that this was something that couldn't be overcome without doing something clever to get the upper hand.Maybe if you really paint a picture in the PC's mind of how deadly Xanesha is they can come up with a way to tip the scales in their favor?
Other then that I would say only you know your group. Would a TPK be a campaign stopper or would there be some way to roll up a new party and continue on with the AP?
Personally, when I run Runelords I will use the changes in the anniversary edition, because they're probably there for a good reason. I think the tone of the AP up to that point probably sets a certain expectation. I'm not saying Richard Pett wrote the original badly, just that maybe it's not what you sign up for when you play a Paizo AP.
If you want to pass on a hint, have them meet a NPC who is the only survivor of a previous attempt. Pas son some simple hitns about how touch she is
I think I will probably take the original version. Even if my group isn't optimized group.
Most of the encounters are in favor of the PC so this time it will not be the case...
Here's my 2 cents. I GM'd this a few weeks ago and I used the updated version. I have a group of five; 6th level and nearing 7th. We've been gaming for a long time. My players are very experienced but with only two optimizers among them. Still, they're all very tactically experienced. The battle was epic and everyone had tons of fun. While no one died thanks to good tactics, three of them came very close multiple times. At one point I was actually sweating from worry about a TPK (something I usually never have to do with our games). They all pulled through but it was a close call. This was with the updated Rogue version.
If you think your group can handle the older version, well, more power to ya. I hope it's a blast. From my own experience, plus what I've read over the years on these forums from others, I've noticed it's not always about optimization with this encounter. Party composition, tactics, and preparation all play huge parts. Some uber-optimized groups still get run over by Xanesha just based on party strengths and weaknesses. So my best recommendation to you would be to measure her carefully against your group to see which fits best.
Cheers,
Tony
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The scariest part of this encounter is the fact that the version of Xanesha that was put in the original version was already nerfed slightly according to the writer's account. I recall reading that :
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I haven't run or played in the encounter with Xanesha, but I have run some adventures by the same author, published in non Paizo stuff. I remember a 1st level adventure he wrote that had a CR 5 scythe wielding wood golem that needed to be dealt with. Obviously that could have been a TPK but I've run it three times with only one PC death occurring. The reason that adventure worked was because it did a good job of setting the mood and conveying that this was something that couldn't be overcome without doing something clever to get the upper hand.
Ooh, I playtested that. And, yes, the fighter did get dropped, and yes, we did have to use methods other than 'run up and hit it'.
I haven't run or played in the encounter with Xanesha, but I have run some adventures by the same author, published in non Paizo stuff. I remember a 1st level adventure he wrote that had a CR 5 scythe wielding wood golem that needed to be dealt with. Obviously that could have been a TPK but I've run it three times with only one PC death occurring. The reason that adventure worked was because it did a good job of setting the mood and conveying that this was something that couldn't be overcome without doing something clever to get the upper hand.Ooh, I playtested that. And, yes, the fighter did get dropped, and yes, we did have to use methods other than 'run up and hit it'.
Yeah, Pett's pretty notorious for how lethal his modules can get. He is a man to be feared and respected when it comes to his writing. Definitely one of my favorites.
After looking at the old Xanesha and the new, I thought I saw what had happened. After checking, sure enough, it looks like they took people's advice and swapped Lucrecia (Xanesha's sister) in, and put Xanesha in Lucrecia's place (all while keeping their gear almost the same).
While Lucrecia is now Sorcerer 2 (instead of Rogue 2), Xanesha is now just Rogue 1 (instead of Sorcerer 2), so it wasn't a full switch. When my players' characters get that far, I might up the AE Xanesha to Rogue 2.
Also, it appears that lamia matriarchs got nerfed between 3.5 and PF: their touch attack used to deal 2d4 Wisdom drain, but now does only 1d4 Wisdom drain. ... Maybe that's a good thing?