Creative Director
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BUT, is doing something like this legal given it will be "published" on the web?
We are VERY close to releasing our fan kit resource guidelines. So from the Paizo side of things, all the information you'll need will be in that document. From the WotC side of things... I can't really help advise.
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James is aware of the project, and as far as I know he doesn't have any problems with it as it currently exists. I will make any necessary changes to it once the fan site kits are released.The things are very clear with Scott blog. If he posts there any part from one adventure, he is breaking the copyright law. Is like posting an entire chapter for the last R.A. Slavatore book on your blog...
I am sorry about Scott work, but he is on a wrong rute. And probably no one at Paizo didnt checked that blog till now...
read the fansite policy for paizo when is out and get the wizards one read them.
it would be good if paizo could tell us on the policy that is coming out if conversion projects to 4ed or any other system (but specially 4ed) are allowed if not or yes how much can we post, what can we post etc.
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it would be good if paizo could tell us on the policy that is coming out if conversion projects to 4ed or any other system (but specially 4ed) are allowed if not or yes how much can we post, what can we post etc.
isn't wotc coming out with its own fansite policy? that'll probably take precedence over anything paizo fan kit for 4e conversions.
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Perhaps I need to be more clear and to the point.
Paizo is building its own game: Pathfinder RPG. We think this game is better than 4th edition, and that's why we're going to focus our efforts supporting Pathfiner RPG (and by extension, 3.5). Time spent officially supporting 4th edition is not time well spent for Paizo.
For the same reason, I wouldn't expect to see Wizards of the Coast produce material for the PF RPG.
I'm flattered that there are folks who really want us at Paizo to produce 4th edition content, but it's just not going to happen unless, as I said elsewhere, there was some sort of catastrophic change to the face of the industry. We've put FAR too much work into the Pathfinder RPG to spend time supporting other company's rules.
EDIT: The concept that conversions will make us more money is flawed. We can't increase our head count, so that means if we do conversions, we have to either cut back on what we're doing now OR we have to take more work on ourselves. We aren't experts at 4th edition, so what we would do for 4th edition would be inferior to what WotC's doing, I suspect. We ARE experts at 3.5 and PF RPG, but if we halve the time we spend on those products to work on 4th edition products too, then all of a sudden what we produce for PF RPG/3.5 becomes unfinished and sloppy. FURTHERMORE: I'm not in this job for the money. I'm in it for the love of the game. I, and I suspect a lot of others at Paizo, would not be putting in as much work if we were working for something we didn't love and weren't proud of working on. And that would show in the quality of the product, and I'm not interested in producing low-quality product.
4th Edition's a fine game. Pathfinder RPG is better. I'd rather write for and work on the game that I feel is the better game. That's about all I have to say about that.
James you are a legend of sorts. May the golem endow you great blessings.
isn't wotc coming out with its own fansite policy? that'll probably take precedence over anything paizo fan kit for 4e conversions.
it would be good if paizo could tell us on the policy that is coming out if conversion projects to 4ed or any other system (but specially 4ed) are allowed if not or yes how much can we post, what can we post etc.
I dont know if they have a policy out or not, but it all depends in how they worded, they could both be cancel each other out etc. We just have to wait and see.
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Now the topic the revision is up and it still a revision which could change again, and still (in my opinion) too risky for me to mix with my IP.
it does not promote creativity. it put my IP in danger and it protects their IP and make sure their core books are sold.
which in my eyes still not fit my business model. I am not vulture and i am certainly not a banker.
But, but, blood shed and gore....I mean....awww...humm...not even a little war?Ecstatic.Awwww, no war? Sits in the corner and pouts You guys are just no fun!I believe in this case I can talk for Scott also when I say we are happy to disappoint you. :pSorry dude, still no.
Apologies,
S.
Awwww.....sigh...I guess I could always BBQ gnomes or elves or something...sigh
Rumor has it that tribbles are particularly delectable with a Worchestershire marinade and a garlic-butter slow rotisserie treatment.
4th Edition's a fine game. Pathfinder RPG is better. I'd rather write for and work on the game that I feel is the better game. That's about all I have to say about that.
While this is a little disappointing to hear, I completely understand your reasons for it. It sounds like making this happen is going to come down to a community effort, which is fine. We've already got a head start on some of it anyway.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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isn't wotc coming out with its own fansite policy? that'll probably take precedence over anything paizo fan kit for 4e conversions.
it would be good if paizo could tell us on the policy that is coming out if conversion projects to 4ed or any other system (but specially 4ed) are allowed if not or yes how much can we post, what can we post etc.
Mechanically speaking, you would only be able to use things that you create yourself or reference material in the SRD. Unless their fan use policy allows fans more freedom than they allow 3pps who have accepted the GSL. But Paizo's community use policy would be the document that would determine what you can do with their IP. If they say you can't use proper nouns from any of their products or release anything relating to Golarion, it doesn't matter what edition you wanted to do so in. I don't think this will be the case, but it sounds like we'll get the policy tomorrow, so it's not a long wait. I personally am not a fan of 4e for my own gaming, but I know lots of people who are and have a great time playing it. I hope that 4e conversions can be made by fans who want to do them and that a forum exists where they can be shared and distributed. But it seems that hoping Paizo will do them or officially license them is a pipe dream.
Rumor has it that tribbles are particularly delectable with a Worchestershire marinade and a garlic-butter slow rotisserie treatment.
Grilled with a light lemon and pepper mix, and my own seasoning and they are fiendishly yummy
Grilled with a light lemon and pepper mix, and my own seasoning and they are fiendishly yummyRumor has it that tribbles are particularly delectable with a Worchestershire marinade and a garlic-butter slow rotisserie treatment.
nom!
you should stop by the layer, I could use more minions
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1. GSL let 3PP only to create alternate/new races, clases, monsters, item and adventures. They don`t let 3PP change a word from the core books. And, even worse, they don`t let them to copy nothing official. So, how could Necromancer create a "classic" 4e D&D without thouching the old races, classes, monsters or rules? Maybe creating subraces and subclasses with old names: Greyhawk Dwraf, Maure Elf, Demonweb Drows, Gygax Barbarians, Jacobs Succubus, Necromancer Skeleton...
2. About Pathfinder conversion... Wizards developed in 4e a new system for creating monsters and encounters. And they have also changed some monsters radically. So, I think 4e and Pathfinders operate with different power levels. I don`t know how balanced are Scott conversions, but I am sure there would be big problems in using a lot of the monsters wich got a higher lvl or different stats and powers. Yes, you can change those monsters with others more apropriate in lvl, but, in this case, what is the use of an official conversion? Get the adventure home, throw some 4e monsters from the 4e MMs and the game session is ready to go. Is something that DMs do at every new D&D edition, but that don`t require any official assistance.
3. With the risk of playing Scott role, I repeat that Paizo can`t stategically do 4e conversions for their adventures. This would be suicidal for the PFRPG. They need to sell their own game and its rulebooks if they wanna remain independent. They need to make 4e players to taste Pathfinder game and how can they do that if they give them Golarion 4e adventures?! Give them the Pathfinder Adventure Path in 4e and they will make subscriptions for it, and maybe Chonicles, and will return on this site in six months, being busy to read DDI, and never would they care about PFRPG. And that you call a good bussines oportunity?!"If you like that much our setting and/or our adventures, come play them with our game. " That`s how Wizards think and that how Paizo must think. And that is what James just said...
4. When I see Wizards asking for permision to convert their adventures to PFRPG (because is a good bussines oportunity, some extra cash) then, maybe, should Lisa put the hand on that chellphone. Although, I`m sure that in that case would not be necesary, a such a move from WotC meaning that their edition is dead...
5. Deal Scott! I realize now that is a waste of time to tell something to some one who don`t listen you. Keep asking James, in your "civil" way, to call at Wizards for an indulgence cause you dont wanna play in Golarion with Jason rules. Mea culpa! I am wrong, you know better everything and anytime. I know you are not a bad person, just your god exalted you to much. End of the flame war for me...
Let's keep the personal attacks at a minimum, folks.
Exactly.
Anyway, going back to the original topic. I wonder if 3.x publishers who were on the fence are going to reconsider publishing 4e material.
A number already are - Necromancer games and ENWorld Publishing are the most recent, widely-known examples I can think of off the top of my head. A lot of other people have said they will now publish under the GSL, though I'm not familiar with what companies or projects they work for. It looks like a lot of people had plans for 4th Edition all lined up and were simply waiting for WotC to make the changes they did.
EDIT: The concept that conversions will make us more money is flawed. We can't increase our head count, so that means if we do conversions, we have to either cut back on what we're doing now OR we have to take more work on ourselves. We aren't experts at 4th edition, so what we would do for 4th edition would be inferior to what WotC's doing, I suspect. We ARE experts at 3.5 and PF RPG, but if we halve the time we spend on those products to work on 4th edition products too, then all of a sudden what we produce for PF RPG/3.5 becomes unfinished and sloppy. FURTHERMORE: I'm not in this job for the money. I'm in it for the love of the game. I, and I suspect a lot of others at Paizo, would not be putting in as much work if we were working for something we didn't love and weren't proud of working on. And that would show in the quality of the product, and I'm not interested in producing low-quality product.4th Edition's a fine game. Pathfinder RPG is better. I'd rather write for and work on the game that I feel is the better game. That's about all I have to say about that.
That's exactly what made me come to Paizo and that I purchase now Paizo products instead of WotC ones. Because you guys are passionnate and love the game.
EDIT: The concept that conversions will make us more money is flawed. We can't increase our head count, so that means if we do conversions, we have to either cut back on what we're doing now OR we have to take more work on ourselves. We aren't experts at 4th edition, so what we would do for 4th edition would be inferior to what WotC's doing, I suspect. We ARE experts at 3.5 and PF RPG, but if we halve the time we spend on those products to work on 4th edition products too, then all of a sudden what we produce for PF RPG/3.5 becomes unfinished and sloppy. FURTHERMORE: I'm not in this job for the money. I'm in it for the love of the game. I, and I suspect a lot of others at Paizo, would not be putting in as much work if we were working for something we didn't love and weren't proud of working on. And that would show in the quality of the product, and I'm not interested in producing low-quality product.4th Edition's a fine game. Pathfinder RPG is better. I'd rather write for and work on the game that I feel is the better game. That's about all I have to say about that.
That's exactly what made me come to Paizo and that I purchase now Paizo products instead of WotC ones. Because you guys are passionnate and love the game.
That's a great reason to support them, but I hope you don't believe that the guys at WotC are not passionate fans of the game. WotC is chock full of people who have made D&D their lives, just like the guys at Paizo. I honestly don't think you're going to find many people in the tabletop industry in general who are not incredibly passionate about the game.
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Yup, all true, but those who make financial decisions at WotC/Hasbro regarding D&D are quite likely not passionate gamers. In fact, the awful corporate lingo used in the X-mas layoff at WotC indicates exactly that. And as to "corporate folks understand gamers" - well, one word: Wizkids.
The difference with Paizo is that the the top dogs are rabid RPG fanatics (actually Lisa freaks me out sometimes).
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Having worked on massive corporations before (I worked on the biggest company in the world, you can find out the name by that) The passionate people stay at the bottom and the top gets worse and worse alienation and ignorance and the love to keep your own hide safe are the main concerns. These people are here to make money remember that.
Anyhow I feel we are going round and round on this subject.
the topic has actually derailed now, what are we talking about?
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Creative Director
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That's a great reason to support them, but I hope you don't believe that the guys at WotC are not passionate fans of the game. WotC is chock full of people who have made D&D their lives, just like the guys at Paizo. I honestly don't think you're going to find many people in the tabletop industry in general who are not incredibly passionate about the game.
OMG... Of Course I don't believe that WotC's R&D aren't passionate about the game. That's not what I said. What is it that you're trying to accomplish here, Scott? Other than try to coax Paizo employees into nervous breakdowns by forcing us to proofread our messageboard posts a billion times to make sure that every tiny word is so exactly chosen that it can't be taken the wrong way?
Same goes for fans and customers of Pathfinder RPG. What's wrong with someone preferring one edition over the other? Nothing at all.
The sooner you accept the fact that BOTH games are here to stay as long as their respective companies are still in business and as long as their respective customer bases are still supportive, the sooner we can put this stupid edition competition behind us and get back to gaming rather than trying to recruit folks from the other side.
Anyway, Portella's right. This topic has pretty much run its course. If folks still want to chat about the Revised GSL, go for it! This is not the place to try to talk Paizo into writing 4th edition products OR the place to attack those who prefer 4th edition over 3.5.
That's not what I said.
He was responding to selios I believe, who was saying something like he supported Paizo over WotC, because your passion for the game.
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Er, GSL & OGL...
So on that note. I wonder if a too restrictive policy from WotC may serve less to product their profit margin as to make games like PF RPG and True20 better alternatives to getting 3PP gaming material published? In a way perhaps everyone wins WotC get to keep all their IP and other "D&D derivatives" might get a little more press and sales? The general feeling I get regarding the GSL from this thread is that it isn't all people had hoped.
S.
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So the revision is out it is a lot better the it previous incarnation. Their new business model serve them well and allows 3pp to make a bit of cash from it and that is all.
Anyway, did go and buy the core books for 4ed because i am a fanatic, however i wont be buying any more books then i actually need. plus i have found a great new system that allows me to reuse all my old books with out a lot of change which is great. and the this new system uses the OGL which for me is great because i may be making adventures to sell.
i think i have had enough for the time being i feel that there isnt anymore to say, unless anyone wants any clarification on the new license on regards to IP or what ever. I will drool over some of the books on the shop :D
I got a harrow deck (bought the other day) i will do harrowing for the GSL hahaha.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Anyway, going back to the original topic. I wonder if 3.x publishers who were on the fence are going to reconsider publishing 4e material.
See here.
What I want to know, though, is whether Goodman and other companies that adopted the first version of the GSL and destroyed all their OGL stock will be reissuing it in pdf. It seems a little suspicious to me that WotC would wait over six months from saying they were revising the GSL to finally put it out after all the early adopters were supposed to have destroyed remainder stock of their 3.5 stuff. Because any adopter of the GSL now no longer has this stipulation. I bet that makes Joseph Goodman pretty mad. Think of all the DCC's they had to destroy.
That's a great reason to support them, but I hope you don't believe that the guys at WotC are not passionate fans of the game. WotC is chock full of people who have made D&D their lives, just like the guys at Paizo. I honestly don't think you're going to find many people in the tabletop industry in general who are not incredibly passionate about the game.OMG... Of Course I don't believe that WotC's R&D aren't passionate about the game. That's not what I said. What is it that you're trying to accomplish here, Scott? Other than try to coax Paizo employees into nervous breakdowns by forcing us to proofread our messageboard posts a billion times to make sure that every tiny word is so exactly chosen that it can't be taken the wrong way?
Same goes for fans and customers of Pathfinder RPG. What's wrong with someone preferring one edition over the other? Nothing at all.
The sooner you accept the fact that BOTH games are here to stay as long as their respective companies are still in business and as long as their respective customer bases are still supportive, the sooner we can put this stupid edition competition behind us and get back to gaming rather than trying to recruit folks from the other side.
Anyway, Portella's right. This topic has pretty much run its course. If folks still want to chat about the Revised GSL, go for it! This is not the place to try to talk Paizo into writing 4th edition products OR the place to attack those who prefer 4th edition over 3.5.
Er...I was responding to selios' post, James, not yours. I think you just misread the quote tree and missed that someone had responded to your post (and that I was, in turn, responding to them). My response to you was a few posts above that:
While this is a little disappointing to hear, I completely understand your reasons for it. It sounds like making this happen is going to come down to a community effort, which is fine. We've already got a head start on some of it anyway.
I know you think the WotC guys are passionate about D&D.
If you've been following my posts at all you know that I'm very supportive of Paizo's success with Pathfinder.
It's cool, no need to get upset.
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Lisa will be unbeatable soon me must gather our forces.
Fools! That's exactly what she wants! Our armies would be like stalks of wheat before the scythe ...
We need to sneak in, and smash her source of power. Only then can she be confronted, and defeated! Gather a few of your best men - we meet tonight at the old abandoned farm ...
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Lisa will be unbeatable soon me must gather our forces.Fools! That's exactly what she wants! Our armies would be like stalks of wheat before the scythe ...
We need to sneak in, and smash her source of power. Only then can she be confronted, and defeated! Gather a few of your best men - we meet tonight at the old abandoned farm ...
Love to but... It's the night I wash my hair. Anyway good luck with the whole assaulting Lisa's stronghold. Please let me know how you get on.
The difference with Paizo is that the the top dogs are rabid RPG fanatics (actually Lisa freaks me out sometimes).Excellent! That gave me just enough XPs to go up a level. Thanks!
-Lisa
A shadowy figure appears within the perpetual gloom around Lisa's chair.
"Boss, ya gots adventurers gunnin' for ya ... raze the taverns within a fortnight's travel ..."
The shadowy figure vanishes.
Lisa will be unbeatable soon me must gather our forces.Fools! That's exactly what she wants! Our armies would be like stalks of wheat before the scythe ...
We need to sneak in, and smash her source of power. Only then can she be confronted, and defeated! Gather a few of your best men - we meet tonight at the old abandoned farm ...
Nuke the site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure :)
Nuke the site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure :)Lisa will be unbeatable soon me must gather our forces.Fools! That's exactly what she wants! Our armies would be like stalks of wheat before the scythe ...
We need to sneak in, and smash her source of power. Only then can she be confronted, and defeated! Gather a few of your best men - we meet tonight at the old abandoned farm ...
Excellent ... a bit overkill for an old abandoned farm, but rather certain to not leave any of the sneakses alive ...
Excellent ... a bit overkill for an old abandoned farm, but rather certain to not leave any of the sneakses alive ...Nuke the site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure :)Lisa will be unbeatable soon me must gather our forces.Fools! That's exactly what she wants! Our armies would be like stalks of wheat before the scythe ...
We need to sneak in, and smash her source of power. Only then can she be confronted, and defeated! Gather a few of your best men - we meet tonight at the old abandoned farm ...
My friend, there ain't no killin' like overkillin' :evil grin:
Yay! A plot, you guys need some help?
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There is no need for D&D logo to promote Pathfinder.
As Jason said, there were 40.000 downloads for Beta PFRPG pdf. Add to this that Eric said that Paizo print around 10.000 copies per book and Wizards around 60.000 copies. Make the math and become clear that a great majority of the D&D players know about the Paizo new game. Now, if only 20.000 players would buy the PFRPG core books I am sure there will be summer at Paizo all the year. As they stated in the last summer anoucment.
Off course, if those players would not buy D&D 4e books, that will hurt a little the Hasbro wallet.The strong point for the Paizo is their online community and store. Why do you think WotC took the D&D magazines from the Paizo and launched the D&D Insider?!
Or tried to launch Gleemax for that matter.
The only quibble I have with your numbers is you dont know how many folks who bought the book, also downloaded the PDF as well....
Yay! A plot, you guys need some help?
Yes, send your flesh-devouring minions into the rubble, strip the corpses to the bone and haul out all the loot so we can divvy it up between our Red Shirts.
My friend, there ain't no killin' like overkillin' :evil grin:Excellent ... a bit overkill for an old abandoned farm, but rather certain to not leave any of the sneakses alive ...Nuke the site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure :)Lisa will be unbeatable soon me must gather our forces.Fools! That's exactly what she wants! Our armies would be like stalks of wheat before the scythe ...
We need to sneak in, and smash her source of power. Only then can she be confronted, and defeated! Gather a few of your best men - we meet tonight at the old abandoned farm ...
Absolutely. As soon as Vrocky re-loads the mass driver, we need another target. Another nest of righteousness and goody-two-shoe'dness ... there's a LOT of big rocks up in space...
... missed.
Hey! I didn't shoot yet! Coughs up a skull with some scalp still attached. Mmmm ... gnome ... tasty.
... missed.Hey! I didn't shoot yet! Coughs up a skull with some scalp still attached. Mmmm ... gnome ... tasty.
You gnome-chomping chucklehead Vrocky, you have to keep both eyes on the targeting reticle!
Now we have to apologize to Venger for wiping out his filming studio. Man, some days ... sighs
TigerDave, you and the rest of your merry band still have to worry about the swarms of flesh-devouring tribbles!! ... umm ... wait, do they even have a speed or mode of movement?
The flesh-devouring tribble swarms have a speed of 60'. They also have a charm ability kinda like stun
They also come in assorted colors
The flesh-devouring tribble swarms have a speed of 60'. They also have a charm ability kinda like stun
They also come in assorted colors
I am hesitant to stat up the swarm - I'd prefer to avoid copyright infringement.
EDIT: Maybe they're only killable by specially-trained gnome warriors, whom they are mortal enemies of in D&D...
Nah they die pretty easy, since it doubles in size every 4 hours. I have to kill em off alot just to keep size under control...Tribble management is a never ending task I tell ya
Nah they die pretty easy, since it doubles in size every 4 hours. I have to kill em off alot just to keep size under control...Tribble management is a never ending task I tell ya
Dip them in butter and chow down .. the crocostimpies should help a lot, they're capacious in their appetites for tribble.
We tend to grill them at the layer. The succubi so love tribble kabob
We tend to grill them at the layer. The succubi so love tribble kabob
Tribble tartar ... still squealing when you start munching ... nom!
well yeah, Every one knows terror brings out the best flavor