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I still don't see why one who wants the pdfs for all products can't just buy them all individually? The price point for the pdfs is not much different than the price for the printed issues with the subscriber discount. Make your own subscription.
PDFs are released to the general public half a month after the print editions, and that general 15% discount IS very tempting. The former especially is why I've decided to bite the bullet and subscribe, despite the AUD falling off a cliff lately...
Dear Paizo,
thank you for the marketing email and the free "Legacy of Fire Guide" PDF. You invite me to take out a subscription. This I will gladly do, as soon as you offer me a PDF-only subscription. I am happy and accustomed to working with electronic media, and see no reason to pay for you to print something out for me and then ship it half way around the world at my expense.
Yours,
Potential Subscriber
I think someone else mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating- what if you buy the regular subscription, but donate the print copy to someone before your copy is mailed to you and shipping costs are incurred? Then you can have your "PDF" copies of all the episodes without paying s/h.
You mentioned you would be interested in paying a 'fair price'... considering how Paizo isn't willing to only sell PDFs since it may very well undercut their margins, why not be generous and increase the love of gaming for someone else?
I'm sure if enough people were interested in doing that, then Paizo could establish a direct-donate to give Pathfinders to libraries or shelters, or to veteran's gift drives, or some other worthy venture. It would be good PR for them. Then, assuming you live in Canada (possibly the UK) or the US, you could perhaps deduct the donation from your taxes (Although that might be a bit sketchy considering how you are getting a product of some sort for the 20 dollars).
Just an idea.
~LD
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How about a selection box that only activates for those whose mailing address indicates an expensive shipping area - Canada and overseas, where ever there is a massive shipping and currency exchange expense. That box provides the option to get a PDF-only subscription saving dead tree and other costs while retaining the revenue stream from the subscribers.You're missing my point a little bit. I have three ways that I can get an electronic copy of one of Paizo's adventure paths:
- Buy them from Amazon (either one at a time or once they're all in print) and scan them myself. End result -- I have physical and electronic copies of the books. Cost is around $100 CAD and Paizo has no guaranteed monthly income from me.
- Buy the .pdfs from Paizo. End result -- I have electronic copies of the books, but no physical copy. Cost is around $100 CAD and Paizo has no guaranteed monthly income from me.
- Subscribe to the adventure path and get books and .pdfs from Paizo. End result -- I have electronic and physical copies of the books. Cost is around $150 and Paizo gets a guaranteed monthly income from me.
#3 is out for me (why should I subsidize the U.S. Postal Service in order to patronize Paizo?) and obviously #1 is better than #2 in a value-for-money standpoint.
#1 just seems to be the least economic choice I can imagine. You want to buy the books for 100USD get them. Tear them apart and then spend hours of your time (which is worth money) and make 2nd rate scans then spend even more time compiling them into a usable multimedia system.
Even if you don't destroy the books to make scans you get poorer quality scans.
All things being equal, I'd rather give Paizo some guaranteed income in exchange for a slight price break. If I'm going to have to pay $100 anyways, why wouldn't I get a physical copy for no extra charge (in which case it hurts Paizo's profits)? So I'm kind of stuck. Maybe Paizo could put up a PayPal donations button...
This just sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too. So if they drop the price for print and PDFs to $100 you would be unhappy because now Amazon sells the books for $90, so Paizo should drop the price again, and then again and then again.
IF we are being honest here, Paizo is already selling their books at lower than market price and FAR lower than the quality deserves.
To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping. You think it isn't fair? Too bad. Life isn't fair. If it were I'd have my sexy personal assistant typing this while I sat in the hot tub with a pair of Playboy twins!
I threw out this idea once or twice, so I'm glad it's still "on the table."
For me, being from the US, it's a matter of space. I can buy a 1TB hard drive for relatively cheap now and put the PDFs on that. I can spend the same amount on shelving, true, but I live in a 2 bedroom apartment.
So, I buy the book and pay for shipping for something I may never use. Maybe I can sell them on eBay to get some of my shipping costs back...
The Map Folios on the other hand, I would buy even though I bought the PDFs.
Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.
Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.
No, because then Paizo eats the shipping costs. Now if they wanted to do that, and paid the US shipping to whatever location Paizo choses, then that would be fair :)
Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.
Yes. Exactly.
If the charity was a local branch of any of those places, then Paizo wouldn't have to pay shipping. It could just arrange for the charity to pick up the books themselves once a month or a quarter. Salvation Army, or the cancer charities would do that. The Veterans' organizations might also arrange a pick-up perhaps?
Hopefully Paizo could arrange this with relatively low overhead time costs to themselves- perhaps 3 hours to establish an initial point of contact with the organizations; then 15 minutes every month or 3 months to set up a pickup time.
Paizo would benefit from good PR; the donatees would benefit from the books; and the PDF buyers wouldn't be burdened by shipping costs while also being able to have a happy feeling that they donated to charity and supported goodness in the world! :)
~LD
If all you want is the pdf, then just purchase the pdf, it is the same price as having a print subscription without the shipping and handling. If Paizo is not interested in having a set number of pdf purchases/subscriptions at this time, then that is their concern not yours. Make the best decision for your circumstance, let Paizo worry about Paizo. That is how capitalism works, mutual self-interest. If Paizo sees a big enough need (most likely due to loss of regular subscriptions and increase in pdf purchases), they will start a subscription for pdfs.
I think someone else mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating- what if you buy the regular subscription, but donate the print copy to someone before your copy is mailed to you and shipping costs are incurred? Then you can have your "PDF" copies of all the episodes without paying s/h.
You mentioned you would be interested in paying a 'fair price'... considering how Paizo isn't willing to only sell PDFs since it may very well undercut their margins, why not be generous and increase the love of gaming for someone else?
I'm sure if enough people were interested in doing that, then Paizo could establish a direct-donate to give Pathfinders to libraries or shelters, or to veteran's gift drives, or some other worthy venture. It would be good PR for them. Then, assuming you live in Canada (possibly the UK) or the US, you could perhaps deduct the donation from your taxes (Although that might be a bit sketchy considering how you are getting a product of some sort for the 20 dollars).
Just an idea.
~LD
Speaking as just an intern with little say in Paizo's policies, I would just like to say that donating physical copies of your Pathfinder subscription to veterans is a great idea. I've spent enough time prowling the forums before I was an intern to know that there are a lot of folks serving overseas who look forward to receiving Pathfinder at their local PX. I can't say if Paizo would handle the creation of a direct-donate system, but nothing says that you can't figure it out yourself (or get the help of any number of organizations that help veterans, such as the USO).
But then, I am just an intern. ;-)
If all you want is the pdf, then just purchase the pdf, it is the same price as having a print subscription without the shipping and handling. If Paizo is not interested in having a set number of pdf purchases/subscriptions at this time, then that is their concern not yours.
All well and righteous, but you're missing the point - THEY wrote to ME! See my first post! Paizo sent me a marketing email asking me to take out a subscription, and this thread is an explanation to them of why I will not, and a suggestion of what they could do to change my mind. I'm not stamping my feet, trying to run Paizo for them, or demanding extra jam on my pudding!
Incidentally, what is a "veteran" (several people have mentioned it) - I assume this is a US term. Is it a retired person?
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If all you want is the pdf, then just purchase the pdf, it is the same price as having a print subscription without the shipping and handling. If Paizo is not interested in having a set number of pdf purchases/subscriptions at this time, then that is their concern not yours.All well and righteous, but you're missing the point - THEY wrote to ME! See my first post! Paizo sent me a marketing email asking me to take out a subscription, and this thread is an explanation to them of why I will not, and a suggestion of what they could do to change my mind. I'm not stamping my feet, trying to run Paizo for them, or demanding extra jam on my pudding!
Incidentally, what is a "veteran" (several people have mentioned it) - I assume this is a US term. Is it a retired person?
Veteran is someone who's served in the armed forces.
Incidentally, what is a "veteran" (several people have mentioned it) - I assume this is a US term. Is it a retired person?
In the US, 'veteran' = ex-military. For instance, all those people who have spent/are spending long stretches of time wearing baggy clothes and carrying long, dangerous objects in certain hot, sandy places, and who are understandably glad for additional ways to break the off-hours boredom. :D
EDIT: D'oh! Ninja'd!
Ah, well, I was going to edit this in anyway....
I'm in a country where a .pdf-only subscription option would be even more attractive than it would be in closer-to-Paizo places such as Canada, and I would add my voice to those calling for such an option.
That said, I have to be honest/contrarian enough to add that I ask that mainly for other Kiwi gamers, because even when/if such a thing came about, I personally would not take it. Setting aside financial concerns, I'm a long-standing bibliophile: to me, a gaming supplement has to be hardcopy to be 'real' to me, and generally speaking I don't buy anything unless I've taken ink-and-dead-trees off the FLGS shelf, paged through its contents, and made a yes/no decision based on what I read therein.
Given how infrequently I can get to my (ns)FLGS, and how little they get shipped in the first place compared to the 'main centres of civilisation', that does mean I miss out on a lot of cool/fun gear. OTOH, in the light of the above, it could be considered a compliment to Paizo that the next time I get back to my FLGS, I'll be picking up as many of their PFAP modules as possible, and hoping to see the PCCS there to go with them. ;)
Okay, lecture over, you can wake up now.... :D
Incidentally, what is a "veteran" (several people have mentioned it) - I assume this is a US term. Is it a retired person?In the US, 'veteran' = ex-military. For instance, all those people who have spent/are spending long stretches of time wearing baggy clothes and carrying long, dangerous objects in certain hot, sandy places, and who are understandably glad for additional ways to break the off-hours boredom. :D
And we are thankful and proud of each and every one.
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I am confused why people want a PDF only subscription?... Are you expecting if it is a subscription there will be a discount?... Why would you assume that? Why would they only do that...
If you just want the PDF... buy the PDF...
They do discount for the AP Subscription and give a bunch of bonuses for having a subscription *Free PDF* *Store Discounts*
Why would you expect them to do the same for the PDF?...
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Again, since a lot of people seem to be unaware, but PDFs aren't released at the same time as the dead tree versions. Subscribers get the PDFs free when they are shipped--but people who are wanting to buy the PDFs alone have to wait at least half a month, probably closer to a full month, before they can purchase it.
Being a month behind the Americans is normal for things like television shows and whatnot, I'd rather avoid it for my D&D books, at least.
To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping. You think it isn't fair? Too bad. Life isn't fair. If it were I'd have my sexy personal assistant typing this while I sat in the hot tub with a pair of Playboy twins!
To be brutally honest myself, that came over as incredibly arrogant and nationalist.
For me, being from the US, it's a matter of space. I can buy a 1TB hard drive for relatively cheap now and put the PDFs on that. I can spend the same amount on shelving, true, but I live in a 2 bedroom apartment.
Buying a TB drive for PF stuff is like buying a hangar for your hamsers! Right now my whole PF folder fits on a single layer DVD - twice. With some room to spare (though I don't have the modules, which would probably add acouple hundred MB to the equation).
I do get what you say: PDFs don't take up physical space.
But speaking of neglegible sizes: the bookshelf I use for my pathfinder books (as well as other RPG stuff) cost me 15€ in Ikea. And my PF stuff so far takes up 1/10 of its space. Once the PF RPG stuff starts coming out, it will be a bit more space, but it will still take years before the space is even remotely noticable here (and while I do have over 900 square feet to myself here, they wouldn't be that much of a nuisance in a single room.)
So, I buy the book and pay for shipping for something I may never use. Maybe I can sell them on eBay to get some of my shipping costs back...
If you don't want any other subscriptions or stuff from the Paizo store, just getting the PDFs as they're released is probably the best course of action - you won't have that much use for the Pathfinder Advantage, and going through all the hassle what with selling stuff on ebay will probably not be worth the effort.
The Map Folios on the other hand, I would buy even though I bought the PDFs.
Really? You're like the exact opposite of me: I wouldn't part with my PF print editions, but the Map Folios are probably the only items I get through my subscriptions I would totally not get otherwise. The maps aren't really player friendly, and I have a great thing going with using my lap' at the gaming table and showing the maps to my players with MapTool - and I can get the map pictures out of the PDFs and, if necessary, alter them a bit to disguise secret doors (though lately, the maps don't require that sort of editing any more).
I am confused why people want a PDF only subscription?... Are you expecting if it is a subscription there will be a discount?... Why would you assume that? Why would they only do that...
If you just want the PDF... buy the PDF...
They do discount for the AP Subscription and give a bunch of bonuses for having a subscription *Free PDF* *Store Discounts*
Why would you expect them to do the same for the PDF?...
I agree that it's not too likely that the PF advantage would extend to the PDF subscriptions, and that the most I can see is a minor discount for a PF Adventure Path PDF only subscription, but it would be more convenient as you don't have to wait for the stuff to be released to pounce on it (you get a mail telling you your new issue is ready for download) and they'd probably get the subscription PDFs the same time we do instead of two weeks or so later.
I think the reason we get those perks for being subscribers is because it's useful to Paizo, too: They can gauge the demand for their product and calculate the size of the print runs, which is good because both too low and too high print runs aren't good (you either end up losing money because you could have sold a lot more, but a second print run would probably be too expensive; or you sit on a lot of print product you cannot sell, but have already paid for). And there's, of course, the (virtually) guaranteed income thing.
So to thank us for helping them with that problem, and encouraging us to help, we get perks. We get something back.
The gauging issue doesn't apply to PDFs, though: There is no print run here, and not even that much in the way of extra production cost, because they need electronic versions of everything for the printers, anyway, and it's probably not that far from those print masters to a sellable PDF (and a lot of that extra effort is probably done automatically).
So PDF subscriptions are a lot less useful for them, meaning their incentive to give us perks is a lot less severe (in fact, it might be that they'd cannibalise their print sales with something like that, so it's at least possible that it would actually be bad for Paizo to have PDF subscribers)
Other than that, you're right: It might be a little bit more hassle, but you can just go get the PDFs now, no real need for a subscription.
The cost and hassle involved in international shipping can be a real pain. One solution would be to have stuff shipped directly to Europe and so on (and left in Asia rather than sent to America and back for asian subscribers), which would probably take care of nasty shipping fees and customs, too (they have to go through customs once, anyway).
I know Paizo is against getting other countries to handle subscriptions for other continents (too much of the process is out of their hands, and in the past, with Dragon and Dungeon subscriptions, there apparently were a lot of problems with those middleman companies).
So the course is clear: Paizo must open branches in Europe and Asia, probably South America and Australia, maybe even Africa, too! Have their own people there, have everyhting under the Golem's control! :D
For the European side, I suggest something in or near Saarbrücken. We don't have access to the sea here, but there is a river, and railroad tracks, and excellent Autobahn connection. And an Airport! ;)
I am confused why people want a PDF only subscription?... Are you expecting if it is a subscription there will be a discount?... Why would you assume that? Why would they only do that...
As was pointed out, _Paizo_ wants _us_ to have subscriptions -- it gives them a steady stream on income every month.
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What Jeremy said. It's the way business works.
As for a PDF only subscription, I'll look into it but since Paizo's primarily a print company (call us old-fashioned or stubborn or whatever), there are various reasons we haven't done a PDF subscription yet. Playing nice with friendly local game stores and our distributors is one of the biggest reasons, though.
Speaking from the UK:
FLGS - We don't have them here anymore. All of my old favourites have closed. I'd need to make a 100 mile round trip to go to one - that's the price of a book in petrol.
Shipping costs - Very expensive to ship books around the world and then we sometimes get nailed for 15% VAT on top of the price as it is coming into Europe, even though in the UK books are supposed to be VAT excempt!
Practicality - My house is now full of books. I really can't buy any more stuff unless it is in PDF format. And you can't do a text search on a bookshelf.
The cost and hassle involved in international shipping can be a real pain. One solution would be to have stuff shipped directly to Europe and so on (and left in Asia rather than sent to America and back for asian subscribers), which would probably take care of nasty shipping fees and customs, too (they have to go through customs once, anyway).
I know Paizo is against getting other countries to handle subscriptions for other continents (too much of the process is out of their hands, and in the past, with Dragon and Dungeon subscriptions, there apparently were a lot of problems with those middleman companies).
So the course is clear: Paizo must open branches in Europe and Asia, probably South America and Australia, maybe even Africa, too! Have their own people there, have everyhting under the Golem's control! :D
For the European side, I suggest something in or near Saarbrücken. We don't have access to the sea here, but there is a river, and railroad tracks, and excellent Autobahn connection. And an Airport! ;)
Nah, totally Ireland. We have... er... me!
For me, being from the US, it's a matter of space. I can buy a 1TB hard drive for relatively cheap now and put the PDFs on that. I can spend the same amount on shelving, true, but I live in a 2 bedroom apartment.Buying a TB drive for PF stuff is like buying a hangar for your hamsers! Right now my whole PF folder fits on a single layer DVD - twice. With some room to spare (though I don't have the modules, which would probably add acouple hundred MB to the equation).
I do get what you say: PDFs don't take up physical space.
It is true, my Paizo folder would fit on a DVD. However all the other PDFs I've purchased include: TSR/WotC folder (8764 MB), Iron Crown Enterprises (200 MB), Hero System (200 MB), FASA (171 MB), Kenzer & Co (125 MB), and various other vendors will not all fit together. Of course, this is shared with my recorded TV (Good Eats rocks!).
Plus, a lot can be said for a network drive that allows me to access all of these documents on other computers without having to find the disc.
But speaking of neglegible sizes: the bookshelf I use for my pathfinder books (as well as other RPG stuff) cost me 15€ in Ikea. And my PF stuff so far takes up 1/10 of its space. Once the PF RPG stuff starts coming out, it will be a bit more space, but it will still take years before the space is even remotely noticable here (and while I do have over 900 square feet to myself here, they wouldn't be that much of a nuisance in a single room.)
Well, I guess I did leave out the fact that I had a 48" shelf and a 36" shelf both 7 layers high in the second bedroom and two 48" shelves 7 layers high in the garage filled with gaming stuff.
While I've shaved that down to be two 36" and one 48" shelves 7 layers high, it's still too much space taken up considering the cubicle size computer desk that I have.
So, yea, It's about space. And I don't trust those sawdust composite shelving. I prefer commercial grade wire racks considering I can put 3 boxes on each shelf of the 48" and two on the 36" with those boxes in excess of 100lbs each when filed with hard covers, magazines, or modules.
All the while the "Great Purge" has been going on, I've racked up a considerable PDF collection which would be about the size of the original setup and another 48" unit (dang box sets anyway).
If you don't want any other subscriptions or stuff from the Paizo store, just getting the PDFs as they're released is probably the best course of action - you won't have that much use for the Pathfinder Advantage, and going through all the hassle what with selling stuff on ebay...
So, I buy the book and pay for shipping for something I may never use. Maybe I can sell them on eBay to get some of my shipping costs back...
I guess the "issue at hand" is timeliness and convenience (this may not be true for everyone). With individual PDFs available after the paper docs and the fact that there is no way to ensure that you have everything (which, let's face it, the subscription does automatically) it becomes a bookkeeping exercise (no pun intended).
You can't even pre-order the PDFs (last I checked), bill them when they become available, on a monthly basis, etc without keeping track of your shopping cart (does the shopping cart always maintain state, or does it clear often?). Once this happens or the cost of shipping becomes too much to justify the current subscription process for a states side person, I'll be happy to "do my part saving the trees" (even though those trees deserve it ; )
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I am confused why people want a PDF only subscription?... Are you expecting if it is a subscription there will be a discount?... Why would you assume that? Why would they only do that...As was pointed out, _Paizo_ wants _us_ to have subscriptions -- it gives them a steady stream on income every month.
Like Kae said.. It is more of an issue of knowing the printing numbers... though I am sure they love the the guaranteed money.. I don't think it is the biggest draw for them on subscriptions.
I think they best reason I saw in this thread was that PDFs don't come out the same time as the printed edition, that you have to wait a month *Is that true?* until the PDF is out. So people are assuming if they had a PDF subscription they would get the PDF the same time the book came out.. Why would you assume that?
I think A much better solution is not starting a PDF Subscription which may reduce the book subscription, but just release the PDF earlier, maybe the same time as the book or no latter then a week, it takes that long for the books to get to you anyway in the mail *Sometimes longer, it takes 1-2 months for me to get the books*
Director of Brand Strategy
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I believe pdfs are currently made available at the same time as the books' release to general vendors so as not to cut into FLGS sales. If I owned a brick and mortar store and saw that there were multiple ways, instead of just the subscription model, for a publisher to undercut my sales of their product, I wouldn't be too happy about that. But if they're selling their own pdf at the same time I can sell their dead-tree book, that's just par for the course (see Drive-Thru RPG). This street-date release of pdfs leads to 2-3 weeks of delay from when subscribers get their copies, since it takes that long for the printed copies to flow through the distribution pipeline.
Again, since a lot of people seem to be unaware, but PDFs aren't released at the same time as the dead tree versions. Subscribers get the PDFs free when they are shipped--but people who are wanting to buy the PDFs alone have to wait at least half a month, probably closer to a full month, before they can purchase it.
Being a month behind the Americans is normal for things like television shows and whatnot, I'd rather avoid it for my D&D books, at least.
Given the time it takes to ship the material, especially to out of country locations, there really isn't that much delay from getting the print copy and getting access to a non-subscriber pdf. The difference arises with print subscribers getting access to the pdf faster than non-subscription pdf-only purchasers.
As was pointed out, _Paizo_ wants _us_ to have subscriptions -- it gives them a steady stream on income every month.
Except Paizo doesn't care when it comes to pdf's. Again, make decisions based on your own need, let Paizo worry about Paizo. If Paizo decides having a steady stream of income from pdf sales is worth it to them, they will offer a subscription.
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Creative Director
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Except Paizo doesn't care when it comes to pdf's. Again, make decisions based on your own need, let Paizo worry about Paizo. If Paizo decides having a steady stream of income from pdf sales is worth it to them, they will offer a subscription.
Wrong. If Paizo didn't care you wouldn't have seen any of us posting on this thread. As I've said before, there's a LOT of other speed bumps and issues with offering a PDF subscription. We DO periodically revisit the idea of offering a PDF subscription, but the vast majority of our income comes from print copies. I suspect for one that a PDF only subscription would have to cost the same as a Print + PDF subscription, and I'm not sure people would appreciate or understand that. I could be wrong about that, of course; I'm not one of the marketing/store folks. There's also several other reasons why we haven't launched a PDF subscription yet as well that I've touched on already on this thread or other threads.
In any case, we HAVE heard the opinions and ideas in this thread and we ARE listening. I'm not sure where we've given the idea that we don't care about PDFs; if we have, I'd like to know so I can go there and correct that misconception as well.
I'm not sure where we've given the idea that we don't care about PDFs; if we have, I'd like to know so I can go there and correct that misconception as well.I for one know you guys care about PDFs.. if you didn't, you would not be selling them... and you guys are..:-)
My comment was in response to:
As was pointed out, _Paizo_ wants _us_ to have subscriptions -- it gives them a steady stream on income every month.
Paizo, at this time, does not care about people having pdf subscriptions, if you did you'd offer one. Let's keep comments within context shall we. I never suggested that Paizo does not care about pdf's in general, merely pdf subscriptions, at this time.
EDIT: How about this, Paizo does not care ENOUGH to bother offering a pdf subscription. You might CARE but not enough to chance your profit margins at this time.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.
That is a very interesting idea.
Maybe Paizo could change how they describe their subscription. Instead of subscribing to a print product and getting a pdf for free with it, they could call it a pdf subscription that comes with a free print product. Don't want to pay shipping? Decline the free print product.
I, for one, plan on keeping my subscription that way it is.
I do have a question concerning PDFs.
Could Paizo, if the charity option does not work, or in addition to, offer a subscription for PDFs at the current price available to those who purchase the PDFs individually. There would be no price break, but it would allow those who are looking for PDFs to get them on a regular basis, without having to watch the product section.
Would that be a reasonable approach?
Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.
I like this idea a lot. I have no idea what the logistics would be, but it's a neat thought...
Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.That is a very interesting idea.
It's an awesome idea.
<Imagines little Bobby reading hook mountain massacre while a frumpy librarian eyes him suspiciously. N doubt little Bobby will either grow up to be an intern at Paizo or become a serial killer....>
It's an awesome idea.
<Imagines little Bobby reading hook mountain massacre while a frumpy librarian eyes him suspiciously. N doubt little Bobby will either grow up to be an intern at Paizo or become a serial killer....>
Nah. That's Skinsaw. Little Bobby reading Hook Mountain will lead to big Bobby eating people ;-)
I think they best reason I saw in this thread was that PDFs don't come out the same time as the printed edition, that you have to wait a month *Is that true?* until the PDF is out.
There is a lag to account for books getting shipped to stores and so on - they don't want the PDFs to be available before you can buy the stuff in a store.
But subscribers get early access to stuff: As far as I know, it's all shipped to subscribers at the same time (well, more or less) as it is sent to distributors/stores. And we get the PDFs as soon as the books are shipped and we are billed for the shipement.
It is true, my Paizo folder would fit on a DVD. However all the other PDFs I've purchased
I was only half serious. Of course, TB hard drives are useful for a lot more than Paizo PDFs (or even RPG PDFs in general). I personally have a TB drive (I felt the urge to buy myself for christmas. Because.. One. Terabyte!) and an older 500gb one to boot. I load them up with video goodness (latest episodes of my favourite shows) and hook them up to my TV via my WD TF, so I can watch the stuff on the TV. And, of course, storing and carrying around data is nice in general.
Well, I guess I did leave out the fact that I had a 48" shelf and a 36" shelf both 7 layers high in the second bedroom and two 48" shelves 7 layers high in the garage filled with gaming stuff.
Ah. So it's less PF stuff taking up much space and more other stuff not leaving any more stuff.
I'd suggest selling old books you no longer need, but that's blasphemy and I know it ;-)
Speaking from the UK:FLGS - We don't have them here anymore. All of my old favourites have closed. I'd need to make a 100 mile round trip to go to one
Sorry to hear that. That's even more than I would have had to go until I moved recently - I lived about 30km away from any FLGS, but of course even then several were in the city I worked in, and since I moved there, It's less than 10 km.
Shipping costs - Very expensive to ship books around the world
I don't think the prices are too bad, actually.
Practicality - My house is now full of books. I really can't buy any more stuff unless it is in PDF format. And you can't do a text search on a bookshelf.
I suggest you buy a bigger house! Or disappear your neighbour, forge his will so he leaves you his house, and use that as extra space. ;-)
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Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.I like this idea a lot. I have no idea what the logistics would be, but it's a neat thought...
What really makes me smile is a load of hard ex-trafficant, bank robbers and the like, playing heroes saving the innocents and fighting against evil while they wait for the time to go home.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Considering that the PDF is supplied free with the subscriptions we currently have, one easy fix would be to have a shipping option marked "Charity" which gets the physical copy put in a box and sent to a prison, or the armed forces, or 'child's play' or a school library. The PDF is yours, you pay no shipping, and the physical copy is sent to a worthy cause.I like this idea a lot. I have no idea what the logistics would be, but it's a neat thought...
I think a new option in the shipping section could be added with the choice to donate to charity. Then Paizo or the charity can send a receipt to the customer at the end of the year on the dollar amount. I imagine Paizo can even get a tax writeoff for the bulk shipping of the books to the charity of choice. I'm not an expert on this though, so the actually solution might be something else entirely. I bet someone at Child's Play could offer more knowledgeable advice.
To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping.
*rolleyes* There's something annoying here, but it isn't people making note of high shipping costs.
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To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping.*rolleyes* There's something annoying here, but it isn't people making note of high shipping costs.
I think his point is.. I could be wrong...
It is not like Paizo can do anything about the Shipping Cost..Or base the prices of the books because of shipping coasts... or even make a PDF subscription because of Shipping costs...
Shipping costs are in no way in Paizo's control..
Complain to Your government about un fair 'surcharges' not to Paizo..
I am sure Paizo is sympathetic to the high prices of shipping.. but there is nothing they can do about it other then adjust weights in boxes so you get the most bang for your buck.
Maybe you can ask Paizo to start a Special Overseas Subscription where they waive the shipping and handling, I know it is not much, but you can save a few dollars/euro/lira/koruna.
Also I would suggest looking into local rules for delivery to see if there are any loopholes in the rules so you can save money.
For example I discovered that the USPS takes off $2 for priority mail to Military APO boxes, I have been able to save some money that way by notifying companies I was ordering from who where not taking into account that discount.
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iNow that is something i would not mind. i would get a subscription like that. but a small discount would be nice.
I'd also like a subscription to Seoni.
I have a subscription for the dead trees and the discount off cover price. (I really like dead trees.) Plus, it's a lot easier for me to justify regular packages of RPG books arriving at my house if I say "Oh, that's my subscription." The PDFs are handy for when I'm bored somewhere and have access to the Internet though.
To reply to the previous poster who wants his PDFs two weeks earlier like a subscriber, why does it matter when everyone else gets theirs? As long as you get them 1/month (which is how often they come out when on schedule), you're getting them with the same amount of gap time between them as the subscribers do so it's not like you have to wait longer between volumes. Worried you'll miss out on some water cooler talk if you don't get your copy soon enough?
As an aside, I want a job where the water cooler talk is about the latest Pathfinder releases.
To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping.*rolleyes* There's something annoying here, but it isn't people making note of high shipping costs.I think his point is.. I could be wrong...
It is not like Paizo can do anything about the Shipping Cost..Or base the prices of the books because of shipping coasts... or even make a PDF subscription because of Shipping costs...
Shipping costs are in no way in Paizo's control..
Complain to Your government about un fair 'surcharges' not to Paizo..
No, it is not necessarily under Paizo's control. However, the shipping costs can make the difference between making something interesting and something too costly. The advantage of PDF is the absence of delivery costs and that was the point I was trying to make earlier. Furthermore, while Paizo does not control determination of mailing costs by the USPS, the prices have gone up sharply recently compared to orders I have placed in the past. I do not know the cause of the price increase. The cause does not matter as they make ordering from the Paizo store too expensive for my limited budget.
As Paizo sent us an unsolicited e-mail praising the advantage of subscribing to the Pathfinder APs. I think that stating why I will not subscribe is a proper response in the context of the present discussion.
I think that agressive statements as those from Krome were uncalled for and honestly a little insulting. Whatever his point, it was lost in the agressivity and hyperbole.
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No, it is not necessarily under Paizo's control. However, the shipping costs can make the difference between making something interesting and something too costly. The advantage of PDF is the absence of delivery costs and that was the point I was trying to make earlier. Furthermore, while Paizo does not control determination of mailing costs by the USPS, the prices have gone up sharply recently compared to orders I have placed in the past. I do not know the cause of the price increase. The cause does not matter as they make ordering from the Paizo store too expensive for my limited budget.
Makes ordering from anywhere in the US is a limiting factor.
My comment is that you are basing your complaint on something Paizo has no control over. My post was more about suggestion on possible solution you may be able to find or a solution that Paizo may be more willing to implement at this time * asking for Special Subscriptions for Overseas removing shipping and handling costs*. In the future they may add a PDF subscription, but until then I am trying to give advice on things you can do to still get your hands on the books.
Either way if you would rather have the PDFs you can still just buy them.
Edit: USPS changed their pricing systems many months backed, in most cases there was a significant raise in prices.
Either way if you would rather have the PDFs you can still just buy them.
Which I do. However, I can not subscibe in the current state of things. Your solution, any solution, which would allow me to subscribe without paying such high shipping costs would be an improvement over the current state of things.
Edit: USPS changed their pricing systems many months backed, in most cases there was a significant raise in prices.
Ah thanks for the explanation. I figured it was something like that.
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Speaking from the UK:
FLGS - We don't have them here anymore. All of my old favourites have closed. I'd need to make a 100 mile round trip to go to one - that's the price of a book in petrol.
Shipping costs - Very expensive to ship books around the world and then we sometimes get nailed for 15% VAT on top of the price as it is coming into Europe, even though in the UK books are supposed to be VAT excempt!
Practicality - My house is now full of books. I really can't buy any more stuff unless it is in PDF format. And you can't do a text search on a bookshelf.
The worst thing is that they charge the whole package. So if I order five books and two minis the whole thing gets a charge. It's cheaper to order them separately despite the extra shipping.
I'd also like a subscription to Seoni.
I'm intrigued by this Seoni subscription and would like to know more! Would she come weekly, or only once a month?
To reply to the previous poster who wants his PDFs two weeks earlier like a subscriber, why does it matter when everyone else gets theirs?
It's about whether you get those PDFs at the soonest possible moment or later.
Plus, there's all the bragging by those who get the PDFs earlier and are talking about the great new stuff they can read now, how it made their lives better and brought them together with their true love and helped them make a fortune with trained gerbil couriers.
Makes ordering from anywhere in the US is a limiting factor.My comment is that you are basing your complaint on something Paizo has no control over.
Well, there's one thing that Paizo has total* control over (*for certain values of "total") -- the cost of the .pdfs.
I understand that Paizo's shipping cannot compete with Amazon's shipping; that makes sense. However, in the U.S. you can subscribe to the adventure path via Paizo and get (a) a discount (maybe not as big as Amazon's discount, but a discount nonetheless) and (b) something that Amazon doesn't offer -- a .pdf version of the adventure path. So while Paizo isn't quite as cheap as Amazon, they offer a better quality product.
But in Canada, the subscription price (+ shipping) and the Amazon price (+ shipping) are way out of whack; I might be better off buying the hard copies through Amazon and the .pdfs through Paizo! I understand that competing on price for hard copy vs. hard copy is out of the question, but there's basically no advantage to me to subscribe. In fact, there's a disadvantage; if I don't subscribe, I can wait until all of the modules are published before deciding if I want it or not. All well and good so far.
The only part I think is silly is that the cheapest source of hard copies (i.e. from Amazon) and the cheapest source of .pdfs (i.e. from Paizo) cost exactly the same. It doesn't make much sense to me and as I pointed out, it's not the case with other .pdf prices (e.g. Mutants & Masterminds 2nd edition).
Anyways, what I really want is a hardcover omnibus version like my beloved "Shackled City". But alas, it looks like that one was just a fluke...
I work in a printshop so i would definately go for a PDF subscription
me and my group buy the hard covers only .
(in canada around 50$CND a peace)
for everything else i want PDF
I was told that if you use (Canada Post air) then you don't have to pay for cotoms fees like you have to with UPS
I need to verify this and also if paizo would go with it
Count me in. I don't smell them or anything
I do.. Paizo smells like Awesome..
Just sayin..
Krome wrote:
To be brutally honest, complaints about the costs of shipping are just sour grapes and annoying. Don't like that it costs more to ship to Canada? Convince Canadians to unite with America. You want to stay your own country? Don't complain about money fluctuations and shipping.
Wow what a brutally arrogant reply
its not the cost of shipping the problem its the costoms fees
(companies are abusive)
You think free trade works one way ?
Maybe i should stay my own country like you said and tell you to get wood , electricity and water somewhere else
I apologise to everybody else i didn't want to bring this into political BULL