how does the paldins smite worke when he crits. is the extra dmg mulitiplied on crits
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That's actually an interesting question if you're using the revised Paladin from the thread. Generally, anything that adds a straight number (from Strength, Weapon Specialization, weapon magical Enhancement, etc.) is multiplied on a confirmed critical, but now with the Smite Evil doing a d6 per 2 class levels against undead and evil outsiders, I'm not really sure. Extra dice (sneak attack, flaming weapon, etc.) aren't multiplied on a confirmed crit.
Against a regular evil-aligned target it would multiply, but as far as the dice... I would think it actually might multiply, but I could see it going either way on the ruling.
That's actually an interesting question if you're using the revised Paladin from the thread. Generally, anything that adds a straight number (from Strength, Weapon Specialization, weapon magical Enhancement, etc.) is multiplied on a confirmed critical, but now with the Smite Evil doing a d6 per 2 class levels against undead and evil outsiders, I'm not really sure. Extra dice (sneak attack, flaming weapon, etc.) aren't multiplied on a confirmed crit.
Against a regular evil-aligned target it would multiply, but as far as the dice... I would think it actually might multiply, but I could see it going either way on the ruling.
Sadly, as you say above regarding extra dice, a Smite Evil against an Evil Outsider or Undead gives extra dice (and not a flat value), and so by RAW is a value that cannot be multiplied; there is a huge difference between a Paladin scoring a crit with a 'Vanilla' Smite Evil (let's say, against a Red Dragon) and a Paladin scoring a crit against a Fiend or Undead.
Worse yet, if you count other multipliers like a Spirited Charge, Lance-armed Paladin who uses Smite Evil, damage output is clearly in favor of a 'Vanilla' Evil creature vs. a Fiend.Paladin 10th, Str 10, Smite Evil Spirited Charge Lance (damage x3)
* vs. generic Evil: 1d8+10 x3 (average 43) - if scoring a crit, 1d8+10 x5 (average 72)
* vs. Fiend: 1d8x3 plus 5d6 (average 31) - if scoring a crit, 1d8x5 plus 5d6 (average 40)
I truly hope that the final version will correct this anomaly (either giving a flat value even for Fiends, only better - let's say +2 for Paladin Level instead of +1 - or allowing the extra dice of Smite Evil to be multiplied - but this could open a debate on allowing OTHER extra dice to be multiplied: 'What, Mr.Two-Goody-Shoes can multiply his Smite? Fine, I want to multiply my Sneak, too !'...)
OK now lets look at the smite damage over 20 hits in yoru example adn assume that yoru paladin has improved criticla lance so he crost on a 19 or 20.
Old way he adds (18x10) + (2x50) = 280 damage.
New way he adds (20 x (5 x 3.5)) = 350 damage.
Actually, it's more like:
Old way (18x30) + (2x50) = 640 damage
New way (20 x (5 x 3.5)) = 350 damage
The 'flat' Smite is multiplied by 3 90% of the times, and by 5 the restant 10% of the times; Spirited Charge allows you to always do double damage when charging against a foe, or always do triple damage when charging with a Lance (and a Lance-mounted Paladin is a pretty iconic character, IMHO...); if you score a crit, you triple the base damage with a Lance (by multiplying rules, a x3 (from Spirited Charge) and a x3 (from Critical) results in a x5)
Even without Imp Critical, the Smite damage over 20 hits would be ((19x30) + 50) = 620 damage - almost double than the new way
If we reach 20th level, the difference is even greater:
Old way (without Imp Critical): (19x60)+100 = 1240
New way: (20 x (10 x 3.5)) = 700
This is a build most of my players take when doing a Paladin - but currently, it's suboptimal against one of the foes they should oppose better...
How about still dealing bonus dice, but with the old flat (+1/level) bonus as a minimum?
And/or allowing the player to choose to take 'bonus dice or multipliable flat level bonus' when rolling for damage (after confirming the threat, of course)?
This is a good suggestion.
I truly like the new 'Alternative' Smite Evil - it gives a bonus to AC when active, it lasts for the full round (or more rounds at high levels), and bypasses the DR on Fiends and Undead. However, the 'd6 every two levels' becomes easily a trap: a 20th level Paladin, for example, has (currently) a value which is either a fixed +20 or a range between 10 and 60 (average 35), which is only slightly better overall.A fixed value on top of the d6 portion, a random roll with a 'fixed' minimum value (as suggested by Snorter - however, this could still be difficult to judge regarding the 'critical' or 'spirited charge' examples above, since we should assume a flat value that does get multiplied), a choice among a fixed value or a random roll (again, as suggested by Snorter), or simply a fixed higher value (+2 per level against such creatures instead of +1) would fix this issue, IMHO.
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A fixed higher value, vs favoured types (fiends, undead, maybe evil divine casters, all the ones that give a bigger 'bleep' on Detect Evil) would resolve both issues, of needing to shine more against these traditional foes, and still contributing to the damage on a crit.
It trades some of the anticipation and potential high score of the die roll, for guaranteed, solid, dependable damage. It could be argued that these dependable qualities are admirable for a class that is a paragon of Lawful Good.
It's just that +1/level, or +2/level isn't all that good. If you only get it for one round/day, it needs to be a proper whack. The dilemma is how to make it worthwile at low level, without it being considered 'too good' at higher levels.
It's just that +1/level, or +2/level isn't all that good. If you only get it for one round/day, it needs to be a proper whack. The dilemma is how to make it worthwile at low level, without it being considered 'too good' at higher levels.
Perhaps we could combine the mechanics of Smite Evil with those of Lay on Hands, uniforming the 'Faith Points' concept discussed here; maybe giving the Paladin a number of Faith Points that can be used either to:
1) use Lay on Hands (and all the improved abilities derived from it, like Break Enchantment and Heal)2) use Channel Energy
3) use Smite Evil
A slightly higher number of Faith Points could be easily used for all the features of the Paladin (IMHO), allowing for a greater customization: would you want to use your Paladin as a 'Mass-healer' ? Burn your Faith Points to use Lay on Hands or Channel Energy. Want to break some (Evil) bones? Use you F.P to Smite them until they bleed (no more).
Just my 2c.