Every set of aligned outsiders has Greater Teleport, self only + 50 lbs at will: Demons, Devils, Archons, and Eladrin (I mean Azatas) all share this ability. (The exception would appear to be Angels and Guardinals (I mean Argothians)).
So why is it that Archons have it as a 'racial' ability, but everyone else have to have it explicitly spelled out in each stat block?
Not sure why Eladrin ever had it as an ability, but in game the explanation for all the others was that Archons had the ability initially, and as per the events of the module 'Squaring the Circle' in the Hellbound box set, the 'loths usurped it and subsequently granted it to the other fiends.
Of course the explanation from the Great Wheel cosmology doesn't exactly carry over for Golarion's outsiders, especially when they've got different origins and such.
To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy to see the ability go away, or be replaced by something like dimension door (which acts the same tactically). Or put a per day limit on it or something similar. As it is, an outsider can visit every major city in the world in a few minutes, and they are impossible to race anywhere without dimensional anchor. For that matter, they don't need to bother with doors.
You know, adding something in where they can't enter a home without permission from the owner would be both mythologically accurate and help with this some...
To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy to see the ability go away, or be replaced by something like dimension door (which acts the same tactically). Or put a per day limit on it or something similar. As it is, an outsider can visit every major city in the world in a few minutes, and they are impossible to race anywhere without dimensional anchor. For that matter, they don't need to bother with doors.
I agree. give them the ability to Planeshift (themselves) back to their plane of origin for a quick getaway, and perhaps 3 Dimension Doors a day for use tactically. The ability to Greater Teleport at will is over the top.
You know, adding something in where they can't enter a home without permission from the owner would be both mythologically accurate and help with this some...
Can they enter ruins?
Well, according to the Hellbound set, absolutely anyone who makes the monstrous creature Maeldur et Kaevurik aware of their name is then also able to teleport with error at will.
I don't see why the ability is a bad thing. It's not likely to be used in combat, unless under great pressure, as it takes a standard action and provokes an AoO. Other than a risky "run away" tactic, its only real combat use is to perhaps set up a ambushing strike at the start of combat.
That psionic purple scorpion from Sandstorm with the ability to dimension door 1/round at will as a supernatural, swift action is far, far more powerful.
You know, adding something in where they can't enter a home without permission from the owner would be both mythologically accurate and help with this some...Can they enter ruins?
Ruins I would say yes to, as well as "public" buildings (bath houses, forums, congress, walmart et al)... after all if they are proper ruins then they don't have a legitimate current owner... if the "ruins" have a legitimate current owner then they are "ruins" they are "A home in distress"
You know, adding something in where they can't enter a home without permission from the owner would be both mythologically accurate and help with this some...
Vampires perhaps, but I can't say I've ever seen fiends in general beholden to any rule like that. And if there's an example of such in myth that I'm just unaware of, I'm not sure that it would fit to the general notion of fiends in D&D and its offshoots (and not really for Golarion's fiends, though for a specific group it might if their flavor were tailored to fit the notion).
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To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy to see the ability go away, or be replaced by something like dimension door (which acts the same tactically). Or put a per day limit on it or something similar. As it is, an outsider can visit every major city in the world in a few minutes, and they are impossible to race anywhere without dimensional anchor. For that matter, they don't need to bother with doors.I agree. give them the ability to Planeshift (themselves) back to their plane of origin for a quick getaway, and perhaps 3 Dimension Doors a day for use tactically. The ability to Greater Teleport at will is over the top.
I like the idea of not letting them Planeshift. In fact they can't use the spell or an ability that does it. Then when they are summoned there is a real chance they may be trapped here. If the summoner dies of the summoning is somehow broken the outsider becomes trapped here unless it gains help to return.
I still don't have an answer for Eladrin/Azatas, but I think I found the reason for Devils and Demons: Lemures, Imps, Dretches, and Quasits don't have the ability, but do have all the other racial abilities.
Not even counting Kytons and Retrievers, who have NONE of the racial traits and shouldn't be in the Demon/Devil sections at all. Retrievers aren't even outsiders!
I still don't have an answer for Eladrin/Azatas, but I think I found the reason for Devils and Demons: Lemures, Imps, Dretches, and Quasits don't have the ability, but do have all the other racial abilities.
Not even counting Kytons and Retrievers, who have NONE of the racial traits and shouldn't be in the Demon/Devil sections at all. Retrievers aren't even outsiders!
Technically (dependin on source) imps and quasits aren't formally baatezu or tanar'ri respectively, hence their not having the ability if linked back to the Maeldur et Kavurik source.
I'm not averse to giving some form of teleportation ability to various outsiders that never had the power in their Great Wheel incarnations. However I'd prefer that their changes in origin in Golarion's cosmos perhaps be taken into account when making that decision for who gets teleportation or not.
Demons/tanar'ri had it in the Great Wheel, but even though of daemonic origin in Golarion's cosmos, there's nothing like the Maeldur in their history. And if demons have it, what of the qlippoth? The proteans?
If devils have it, what about axiomites, or archons (and there's a common but not necessarily linked quality in their origins)?
If some but not all major outsider races get teleport, I'd prefer an in-game rationale for that sort of common power.
I like the idea of not letting them Planeshift. In fact they can't use the spell or an ability that does it. Then when they are summoned there is a real chance they may be trapped here. If the summoner dies of the summoning is somehow broken the outsider becomes trapped here unless it gains help to return.
Nah, that's not for me.
I prefer them not having racial restrictions on magic. There's always resons for fiends to stay on the material. Maybe they have powerful foes back home, or they want to stay in here.
I like the idea of not letting them Planeshift. In fact they can't use the spell or an ability that does it. Then when they are summoned there is a real chance they may be trapped here. If the summoner dies of the summoning is somehow broken the outsider becomes trapped here unless it gains help to return.To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy to see the ability go away, or be replaced by something like dimension door (which acts the same tactically). Or put a per day limit on it or something similar. As it is, an outsider can visit every major city in the world in a few minutes, and they are impossible to race anywhere without dimensional anchor. For that matter, they don't need to bother with doors.I agree. give them the ability to Planeshift (themselves) back to their plane of origin for a quick getaway, and perhaps 3 Dimension Doors a day for use tactically. The ability to Greater Teleport at will is over the top.
Most outsiders lack Plane Shift. If a Demon becomes a 9th level Cleric, then they deserve to be able to Plane Shift.
However, I do agree that no monster should get both Plane Shift and Greater Teleport, because otherwise they can reach literally any place in the multiverse in 2 rounds.
Creative Director
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In my opinion...
The reason so many outsiders get greater teleport and don't have plane shift is this:
Greater Teleport: The outer planes are MUCH larger than the Material Plane. They're spread out on such a huge scale that it's simply not possible to walk or ride from all locations to other locations on a particular plane, so teleportation is the only answer unless we throw a bunch of freestanding portals up all across the multiverse.
Plane Shift: While outsiders can zip around on their current plane with ease with greater teleport, the actual act of entering another plane (or the material plane) is something that's always been tough. In some cases, outsiders have even been prohibited from entering the material plane except when they're summoned. I like the notion that fiends want stuff (souls and flesh and minds) on the Material Plane, but can only get to it if they take a portal or if they're conjured. And if they're conjured, they usually are conjured into restraining magic circles. If fiends can just plane shift in and out at will, then we pretty much lose the concept of fiends not being able to really enter the material plane en masse, and being limited to mortal errors.
I will point out that Genies are the opposite: THey can Plane Shift easily, but can't teleport.
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I will point out that Genies are the opposite: THey can Plane Shift easily, but can't teleport.
I've been kicking around some ideas about this subject. One idea I'm calling "cosmological up & down", which basically says that spirits can travel "down" (or sideways) at will but can't travel "up" without summoning or some kind of planar rift. So angels, etc. from the "higher" planes can travel just about anywhere at will, mortals can visit "lower" planes but not Heaven, and demons can't really planar travel on their own at all.
This is connected into the idea of creatures being tied to their home plane by the nature of the "stuff" their body is made of. Mortals are made of matter and always return to the material plane, unless they (a) ascend to a higher state of being, throwing off their material body and becoming aligned with a higher plane, or (b) are "damned" to a lower plane, becoming tied to that inferno and unable to (permanently) travel beyond it.