What ever happened to Thieves' Cant?

[Mosaic]

Now they can? (badump-bump)

Is a secret language for rogues no longer useful? Druids get one...

How 'bout a sign language or some other silent tongue?

[Daniele Mariani]

The idea to implement Thieves' Cant as an actual language, not unlike Druidic sounds good. Of course, it would imply some things, like the existence, either now or in the past, of a world-spanning thieves' organization. And, if things get "planar", the explanation might get way out of hand.
But a "thieve's cant" could exist as an intuitive (every rogue can get it), yet incredibly complex (no decipher script or intelligence check whatsoever), written or sign-based code that allows a Rogue to communicate with anyone else who knows it. The "hidden conversation" thing becomes a sub-use of Bluff, while this thief code is able to convey much more information in a much more efficient way.
It would be a great "advanced talent", or maybe even a "rogue level check".

[Chris Mortika]

The idea of "thief / rogue" changed, for one thing. A rogue is a skill monkey, not necessarily connected to any illegal or underground establishment.

I think "Thieves' Cant" would be a great perk for a prestige class.

[Nero24200]

Couldn't you just take it as a bonus language if desired? If the rogue gains the ability automatically it takes a step back to the old days where a theif had to be...well...a theif

[The Jade]

Dragon issue #66 had a Thieves Cant pocket dictionary. Fun stuff.

[Seldriss]

In 3.0, the thieves cant was an alternative use of Innuendo, which got rolled into Bluff in 3.5.
So basically it means you can develop secret or sign languages (like the one of the drow) under Bluff.
Of course, you can also keep the thieves cant as a language (like i did).
It is then up to the DM to determine if that's an universal language of thieves, or a local code, different from one guild to another.

[Nerfed2Hell]

Thieves Cant is talking in innuendo so as unenlightened (non-thief) listeners wouldn't catch on to what the speakers actually mean. Technically, thieves cant would be spoken in whatever language(s) the speaker is fluent in, so an elf would speak fluent in elven, a gnome would speak thieves cant in its own tongue, and humans would speak it in their own language (whether it be Common or some regional language).

So, in essence, thieves cant isn't a language itself and shouldn't be considered one. I liked the 3e concept of using the bluff skill to communicate discreetly through innuendo.

[Sean K Reynolds]

Nerfed2Hell wrote:

So, in essence, thieves cant isn't a language itself and shouldn't be considered one. I liked the 3e concept of using the bluff skill to communicate discreetly through innuendo.

"So, Nessa, these pants ain't a baggage to hisself an' shouldn't be considered one. I pike'd the reedy concept of loosing the buff swill to adjudicate sweetly through in-yer-endo."

Half Malapropism, half Cockney rhyming slang, half confusion.

[Mark Moreland]

Nero24200 wrote:

Couldn't you just take it as a bonus language if desired? If the rogue gains the ability automatically it takes a step back to the old days where a theif had to be...well...a theif

If it's not a language anyone else takes then it's sort of a wasted skill point. Then again, rogues tend to have skill points out the [redacted] so perhaps they can afford to take a nonexistent language.

[Kevin Mack]

yoda8myhead wrote:

Nero24200 wrote:

Couldn't you just take it as a bonus language if desired? If the rogue gains the ability automatically it takes a step back to the old days where a theif had to be...well...a theif

If it's not a language anyone else takes then it's sort of a wasted skill point. Then again, rogues tend to have skill points out the [redacted] so perhaps they can afford to take a nonexistent language.

I believe what Nero is trying to say is that not all thief's are rogues and not all rogues are thief's. (For example why should someone who is playing a rogue who has never stolen a thing ad is not part of a thieves guild automaticly know it whilst the hulking fighter who does enforcer work for the thief's guild have to spend points to get it.

[Montalve]

i agree with Sean
"thieve's cant" falls under bluff... it has always just being slang that is why rogues had % to understand it... it is not a language per se... just destruction of the language :P

also
said slang or thieve's cant changes from one city to the other not even the country...
so "thieves" would use a different kind of slang in lets say Korvosa and Magnimar... and quite a lot differente in Absalom o Quadira