Charles,
Not every post in this thread was worthless, though the value of some were somewhat relative. Also, it *was* winding down of it's own accord.
You've spoken your peace, as have others (myself included). May I ask where you're going with this?
Hmmm. And where is Sebastian, when you need to consult him regarding whether mental damage or trauma are legally recognised concepts?
I honestly don't know what you're getting at.
I honestly don't know what you mean.
Hmmm. And where is Sebastian, when you need to consult him regarding whether mental damage or trauma are legally recognised concepts?
You see. When you try you actually are funny.... :)
Yeah, but sometimes yer just riffing... It's fun... occasionally you get a gem for your troubles. Occasionally. ;)
Edit: FIXED!
Edit: FIXED!Well, fixed enough.
Now where were we?
Oh yes, Paizo have to appeal to the broadest common denominator without getting lynched for another Hook Mountain Massacre....
<sigh>
::Crumples his The Dragon Who Vomited An Empty Orphanage adventure proposal and tosses it in the trash::
Edit: FIXED!Well, fixed enough.
Now where were we?
Oh yes, Paizo have to appeal to the broadest common denominator without getting lynched for another Hook Mountain Massacre....
<sigh>
::Crumples his The Dragon Who Vomited An Empty Orphanage adventure proposal and tosses it in the trash::
Ah-ha. A snarky remark about the 4E 'Red Dragon interview' cartoon!
Edit: FIXED!Well, fixed enough.
Now where were we?
Oh yes, Paizo have to appeal to the broadest common denominator without getting lynched for another Hook Mountain Massacre....
<sigh>
::Crumples his The Dragon Who Vomited An Empty Orphanage adventure proposal and tosses it in the trash::
Ah-ha. A snarky remark about the 4E 'Red Dragon interview' cartoon!
Sometimes you know me better than I know myself.
<sniff>
Hold me now and don't ever let go.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Rone - have you considered keeping all of these adventures and merely changing all instances of 'babies' to one of the following?
1. nuns
2. puppies
3. virgins
Myself, I am converting my baby-killing story into a tale of geriatric fratricide, where an octogenarian decides he must outlive his peers at any cost. No one said we couldn't kill old people!
See...that dark side of me just gets outs every now and then. On the upside, being TPKd by a senile serial killer is not something you're going to brag about to the guys.
See...that dark side of me just gets outs every now and then. On the upside, being TPKd by a senile serial killer is not something you're going to brag about to the guys.
Actually, a senile serial killer kind of works, he just keeps on killing those he thinks hurt his family years ago, sort of like memento with a twist.
thanks for the idea ;>
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I never felt a real wave of disgust when it came to children being hurt by some evil villains. It's fiction (although hurting children happens in the factual world), so it doesn't really bother me. Why should it?
But as Darkjoy mentioned in the first post, it's more about the children playing. Since the marketing department so eagerly wants to lure innocent teenagers to get down and play Pathfinder Society, it creates imaginary limits*. The marketing department does not consist of 13-year-olds, yet they act as if they knew exactly what the youngsters want. Frankly speaking, I really doubt having some villain torture a child (possibly a *special* child) traumatizes them in any way. If so, then the kid should have never even started playing.
It's about tolerance, I guess. Or acceptance. I dunno, the difference is quite thin. I'm rambling now.
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I never felt a real wave of disgust when it came to children being hurt by some evil villains. It's fiction (although hurting children happens in the factual world), so it doesn't really bother me. Why should it?
But as Darkjoy mentioned in the first post, it's more about the children playing. Since the marketing department so eagerly wants to lure innocent teenagers to get down and play Pathfinder Society, it creates imaginary limits*. The marketing department does not consist of 13-year-olds, yet they act as if they knew exactly what the youngsters want. Frankly speaking, I really doubt having some villain torture a child (possibly a *special* child) traumatizes them in any way. If so, then the kid should have never even started playing.
It's about tolerance, I guess. Or acceptance. I dunno, the difference is quite thin. I'm rambling now.
You've mistaken things a bit here. It isn't about what the children will think. Children will likely love it (at least when I was a kid way back in the 90s I would've). It's children playing within earshot of their parents. It's just easier to avoid the whole can of worms. You don't need to hurt children to make it a good game so for the PFS just avoid it. Nic and Tim are doing a great job with modules and AP issues of being freaky =p
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I don't think it is all about the kids and whether they will be traumatized. Some people don't like this stuff. Not some children. Some people. They've posted in other threads on this messageboard, so I know they are out there.
Personally, I want to have the hell scared out of me. If an adventure gives me nightmares, all the better. I have a very high threshold for fear so freak me out. BUT, Pathfinder Society Scenarios are not the best place for that as those are expected to appeal to the widest possible audience. Pathfinder Society Scenarios are often played with people who don't know you and we need to be a little cautious. On the other hand, a Pathfinder Adventure Path is usually played with played with people you know, trust, and sometimes even like.
BUT, Pathfinder Society Scenarios are not the best place for that as those are expected to appeal to the widest possible audience. Pathfinder Society Scenarios are often played with people who don't know you and we need to be a little cautious. On the other hand, a Pathfinder Adventure Path is usually played with played with people you know, trust, and sometimes even like.
You are so very right, I don't mind doing the children in peril stuff with friends / people I know well, but with strangers you're in for a surprise.
I'm still not sure if my proposal(s) really involved the endangerment (and even mutilation) of children or not. Certainly those endangered (and mutilated) were the children of other NPCs, but they were (almost) adults themselves, much like the protagonists of many modern horror films...and let us not forget that many adventurer's start their careers as young as 16 if you follow the age guidelines in the PHB. In D&D are 16 year olds children?
For the record, I love children...especially 16 year old girls...just kidding, really.
Chad
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RPG Superstar 2013
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I'm still not sure if my proposal(s) really involved the endangerment (and even mutilation) of children or not. Certainly those endangered (and mutilated) were the children of other NPCs, but they were (almost) adults themselves, much like the protagonists of many modern horror films...and let us not forget that many adventurer's start their careers as young as 16 if you follow the age guidelines in the PHB. In D&D are 16 year olds children?
For the record, I love children...especially 16 year old girls...just kidding, really.
Chad
You sure you aren't a pseudonym for Lou Agresta?
No Reason.
Woot!
666 posts! Worship me!
Nope...don't even know who he (Lou Agresta) is.
Chad
Wasn't there some similar brouhaha back when Living Greyhawk kicked off w/ Erik Mona's River of Blood?
I remember really enjoying the mod, but that there was some sort of outrage regarding kidnapped kids and that it later had to be "altered" somehow.
But my memory is about as reliable these days as... well... give me a few minutes to think of something funny.
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On the topic of Nicholas Logue, Nicholas Logue features mistreatment of children by a villain, yes, (in Pathfinder #7 at least and I'll try not to spoil it) but the villain mistreats the children because that is the essence of his character and how he sees the easiest way to make a living. It has a useful function.
Also (I have it, but only skimmed) does all this take place off-screen?
I know it's part of the PC's backgrounds, and links them together, but only needs to be as graphic as the DM and players agree to play.Do his current activities, with a new generation, happen on-stage or off?
Apparently some of the entries for open call #2 have featured child torture/mistreatment simply for the metagame reason of trying to 'show how bad the villain or villains are', wasting word-count and developing nothing in terms of story.
I think this is a big one. It's a waste of word-count. In the same way as a half-page backstory for some NPC that the PCs are going to kill without a thought.
As to the frequent cries of 'why can't people just change it for their game?'
Even if I'm running an R-rated or X-rated game, I can add that stuff myself, as can any group who is okay with it. In a group which isn't, even if the DM doesn't use it, he's still had to read it, and can't un-read it.
* Note the UK spelling of humour. It is possible that there are cultural differences of perception at play here.
Given recent news in the UK, I can well believe it.
Several well-publicised cases have been all over the papers, in far more detail than we really need.
Rone - have you considered keeping all of these adventures and merely changing all instances of 'babies' to one of the following?
1. nuns
2. puppies
3. virginsMyself, I am converting my baby-killing story into a tale of geriatric fratricide, where an octogenarian decides he must outlive his peers at any cost. No one said we couldn't kill old people!
See...that dark side of me just gets outs every now and then. On the upside, being TPKd by a senile serial killer is not something you're going to brag about to the guys.
See, now that's just brilliant.
::Reaches into the trash to retrieve his The Granny Hammer adventure proposal and uncrumples it.::
Recently, Clark Peterson had a great post about what they don't want to see and Erik chimed in. IMO, necessary reading for all entrants, if you haven't seen it already.Cot of Annihilation?
That ain't no way to get rest, man.
Nope...don't even know who he (Lou Agresta) is.
Chad
Lou Agresta's Paizo profile, along with his RPG writing credits. (Except for Pathfinder Society Scenario #10: Blood at Dralkard Manor PDF. He shouldn't be listed on that.)
We don't all know Lou because of his work or forum posting though. We know him because he's personally saved the lives of almost every other poster here at Paizo. He pulled us all from roaring housefires to the cool safety of night. We can't figure out if he's a tragic hero born with the gift of prescience or just a serial arsonist trying a grassroots approach to building an audience to buy his RPG writing.
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Contributor
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Gosh, thanks!
Agresta - I can send you the early adventrue if you'd like to see it. You can critique the nonrewritten version and maybe learn me something!
I am thinking of stripping the IP and setting it up somewhere else. Plus, the Dream Theater reference is more prominent.
You can post it on RPGAggression if you like.
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Contributor
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Nope...don't even know who he (Lou Agresta) is.
Chad
Lou Agresta's Paizo profile, along with his RPG writing credits. (Except for Pathfinder Society Scenario #10: Blood at Dralkard Manor PDF. He shouldn't be listed on that.)
We don't all know Lou because of his work or forum posting though. We know him because he's personally saved the lives of almost every other poster here at Paizo. He pulled us all from roaring housefires to the cool safety of night. We can't figure out if he's a tragic hero born with the gift of prescience or just a serial arsonist trying a grassroots approach to building an audience to buy his RPG writing.
I'm listed on Dralkard Manor? That's wrong.
As for the rest, oh Jade? Arsonist! Or should I say, Arsonist Lou Visits the Wayward Home for Orphans
The Granny Hammer huh? I think I sold a coppy of a movie titled that when I worked at a place called Exxxit 107. Small world eh?
One thing I've found a little confusing in looking at threads like this is the term pg 13. From submission guides I've seen in the past and recently Paizo would like material sent to them in a pg 13 level. That's great, except I'm seeing one persons idea of pg 13 and anothers as consistantly different. A few days ago I was looking at a discussion on why some items were turned down for last years Superstar. One item was a music box that played haunting tunes, like the sound of a woman drowning her children. Apparently this is why it was turned down, the drowning her children reference. Now, likely there is more to this, as maybe I didn't follow the discussion as closely as I thought I did, or missed some other little detail. But right now I'm going on the assumption that this is this and that is that. So, on the tv show Supernatural, in the first season they fight of a ghost of a woman who killed herself after she realized what she did when she went insane and drowned her children...tv show...basic cable...
Now, I'm not saying Paizo made a bad call. It's their contest, and their obviously free to make whatever standards they wish. My point is, if things went the way I believe they went, then I don't feel very clear as to just what those standards are. D&D and roleplaying games in general have always delt with adult themes, in the form of violence. By many standards graphic violence. Often times on a level that far outstrips any rated r movie I've ever seen. Sexual themes however are quickly shunned by publishers however, or immediately labled mature, even when dealing with what your lible to see on HBO at night. I think trying to use terms made for movies is a mistake, as they don't translate into RPGs well.
Please don't think I'm trying to rock the boat. I know some of my former posts have ended in...less than apropriate discussions here. Which is one reason I try not to get involved in too many discussions, especialy anything serious. But I do want to make my point.
The Granny Hammer huh? I think I sold a coppy of a movie titled that when I worked at a place called Exxxit 107. Small world eh?
Yes indeed. The Granny Hammer was my screen name during that troubled time in my life. I also went by Jailbait Jerry and Chicken. Hey, ol' folks need their blue movies just like the rest of us.
Well Lou, nice to meet you. Sorry I didn't recognize your name. You have enough RPG writing credits to make me envious. Ah well, I suppose it is good enough to simply be mistaken for one of your alternate profiles/pseudonyms.
As for Helt, he's a good guy. We go way back.
Just kidding...I really don't know him either...but either of you gusy can pull me from a burning orphanage any night of the week.
Chad
Damnation...I fell right into that.
It was the 16 year old girl orphans who let me in.
Chad
DIE stupid thread DIE!!!!
My powers of animation are strong.
It's a zombie thread. It only dies if you blow it's brains out, and I don't think this one had brains to begin with.
DIE stupid thread DIE!!!!
a zombie CHILD...someone HURT it...muwahahahahahaahaha!!!!
"Make it stop HUUUURting...brains...STOP THE HURT...BRAINS!!!!...Where's my puppy??? BRAINS!!!"
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Concerning the original post, it might be interesting to know that, according to a very serious article I read some months ago, the character of the Child-molester has become the most extreme figure of horror, revulsion and condemnation in western societies for several decades. It definites the ultimate evil as we perceive it today. It is thus quite logical to find it as a preferred enemy in a scenario, able to inspire all players to uncompromising hatred.
I feel that most people would not be so enraged by a character such as the Parricide (ie they could find him some excuses), even though it was the epitome of evil in western societies during the 19th century.
Times do change.