No, I'm not talking about halfling ninjas.
The term shuriken is realy an hodge-podge group of light throwing blades of may shapes witch could probaly include most of the smaller (concealable) throwing knives and spikes from across the world.
Halfling having a history of being good at throwing, throwing blades (i.e.: shuriken) would fit.
I personnaly allow rogues to trade in the hand-crossbow proficency for shuriken.
No, I'm not talking about halfling ninjas.So as not to invoke the image of halfling ninjas, ho about calling the halfling "shuriken" something else as a way of distinguishing them?
-Skeld
I always use the name "Throwing Blades" instead of shuriken, I like thinking of knife thrower. So I guess they could be called "Halfling Throwing Blades" but I don't think they should be distinguished (Kama vs Sickle I'm looking at you, singular you!).
I think it could simply be mentionned in the shuriken's description and the racial text for halfling that they are treated as martial weapons for halflings.
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Although I could get behind a thrown weapon for halflings, I am not sure that shuriken are the way I want to go.
Any other thoughts....
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Well the Talenta Boomering how about something that's roughly the same idea (heck keep it roughly the same weapon and just call it a halfling return stick or something.) Make it a exotic for everyone else. (Most people don't have the reflexes to catch it on the return.)
I wish the skiprock (and orc shotput!) were OGL. Both were pretty cool weapons. (The Talenta boomerang from Eberron was also a neat halfling specific weapon.)
I don't know about the skiprock but I like the idea of having Halfling-Flatrocks. Basicaly a blunt version of shuriken: Exotic/Racial weapon drawn as a free action and handled like ammunition, possibliy usable in a flurry of blow.
Polished stones might be the way to go. It does hark back to their 1e roots.
Alternatively, you cou use throwing sticks.
darts. that would be the proper equivalent I think.
That's a nice idea - I miss darts :) (3/1 attack speed for the win!)
Halfling Lawn Darts? - drawn as ammunition like Shuriken.
Small: 1d2
Medium: 1d3
Range Increment: 20'
Critical Range: 20/x3
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How about small throwing knives, which halflings call "slivers," that stat-wise are identical to shuriken?
I imagine they would look something like this.
That would remove any unintended or unwanted asian/ninja themes.
I like the idea of blade throwing halflings.
Possibly, racial proficiency with bolas would be cool too.
EDIT: I see that Slime, above, had the same idea about halfling throwing blades just being flavorful replacements for shuriken.
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Although I could get behind a thrown weapon for halflings, I am not sure that shuriken are the way I want to go.
Any other thoughts....
I've always pictures halflings with Tom Sawyer style slingshots, and other than D20 Modern, I don't think I've ever seen stats for one. But that's not really a thrown weapon. In any case, I think that there should be some racial thrown weapons for halflings to go along with their +1 bonus to thrown attack rolls.
Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling: Cost -, Dmg (S) 1d6, Dmg (M) 1d8, Critical x2, Range Increment 80 ft., Weight 4 lbs., Type Bludgeoning. Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a halfling staff sling, just as it does for all thrown weapons. The halfling staff sling is a two-handed weapon. Apply 1 1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage rolls for attacks with this weapon. Loading a halfling staff sling is a move equivalent action that requires two hands and provokes an attack of opportunity. You can hurl bullets or flasks with a halfling staff sling, but usually stones are used. When using bullets an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. If using a flask, or attacking a target closer than 40 ft., you suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls (the penalties are cumulative). With the sling stowed, the weapon functions as a quarterstaff.
It's simple, cheap, has historic roots and I guess larger races could theoretically use the standard halfling staff sling as an exotic, 1-handed, extended range sling or they could use an appropriately sized one normally.
Cheers
Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling: Cost -, Dmg (S) 1d6, Dmg (M) 1d8, Critical x2, Range Increment 80 ft., Weight 4 lbs., Type Bludgeoning. Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a halfling staff sling, just as it does for all thrown weapons. The halfling staff sling is a two-handed weapon. Apply 1 1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage rolls for attacks with this weapon. Loading a halfling staff sling is a move equivalent action that requires two hands and provokes an attack of opportunity. You can hurl bullets or flasks with a halfling staff sling, but usually stones are used. When using bullets an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. If using a flask, or attacking a target closer than 40 ft., you suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls (the penalties are cumulative). With the sling stowed, the weapon functions as a quarterstaff.
It's simple, cheap, has historic roots and I guess larger races could theoretically use the standard halfling staff sling as an exotic, 1-handed, extended range sling or they could use an appropriately sized one normally.
Cheers
I really like this one.
I imagine it to be a sling, club, and walking stick (for small creatures anyway) all rolled into one for little folk with a habit of wanderlust.
Great idea.
Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling:
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The Jai Alai is also a good fit for those stats and double as a club in melee.
The Jai Alai is also a good fit for those stats and double as a club in melee.Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling:
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See also the lacrosse stick.
Although I could get behind a thrown weapon for halflings, I am not sure that shuriken are the way I want to go.
Any other thoughts....
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
While I enjoy skiprocks and boomerangs, I would posit an alternative suggestion: Halflings could be able to throw any weapon they're proficient with; much like the feat "Throw Anything." Balance-wise, it's the similar: Both an exotic weapon proficiency and Throw Anything take up a feat choice. It doesn't need an OGL equivalent for some interesting but not-often-worthwhile non-OGL weapons. And it's great flavor. If there's a halfling, and it's got something in its hands, watch out!
Most halflings I play or have seen played throw darts, javelins, and spears anyway, so I don't think this would dramatically alter their play-style. Or would this turn every Halfling into a Major League pitcher?
The Jai Alai is also a good fit for those stats and double as a club in melee.Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling:
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Ooo... and we could call it a Hoopak!
:|
While I enjoy skiprocks and boomerangs, I would posit an alternative suggestion: Halflings could be able to throw any weapon they're proficient with; much like the feat "Throw Anything." Balance-wise, it's the similar: Both an exotic weapon proficiency and Throw Anything take up a feat choice. It doesn't need an OGL equivalent for some interesting but not-often-worthwhile non-OGL weapons. And it's great flavor. If there's a halfling, and it's got something in its hands, watch out!
Most halflings I play or have seen played throw darts, javelins, and spears anyway, so I don't think this would dramatically alter their play-style. Or would this turn every Halfling into a Major League pitcher?
You're not a major league pitcher in Pathfinder unless you've got a nice and high Dex. I like that idea that halfings, sometimes wanting to keep distance between themselves and larger foes, have just learned how to chuck anything they know how to use at it. I think that very easily makes up for no bonus on thrown weapons. Who needs it, when everything is a thrown weapon?
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The Jai Alai is also a good fit for those stats and double as a club in melee.Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling:
...
Ooo... and we could call it a Hoopak!
:|
I tried to make a Hoopak out of my mother's broom...when I was the size of a Kend...Halfling.
I read the books but never played the adventures. I completely forgot about the Tasslefoot and his hoopak. More proof that all the ideas have been thought before and creativity really is dead (except for those rare and isolated cases).
Cheers
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Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling: Cost -, Dmg (S) 1d6, Dmg (M) 1d8, Critical x2, Range Increment 80 ft., Weight 4 lbs., Type Bludgeoning. Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a halfling staff sling, just as it does for all thrown weapons. The halfling staff sling is a two-handed weapon. Apply 1 1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage rolls for attacks with this weapon. Loading a halfling staff sling is a move equivalent action that requires two hands and provokes an attack of opportunity. You can hurl bullets or flasks with a halfling staff sling, but usually stones are used. When using bullets an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. If using a flask, or attacking a target closer than 40 ft., you suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls (the penalties are cumulative). With the sling stowed, the weapon functions as a quarterstaff.
It's simple, cheap, has historic roots and I guess larger races could theoretically use the standard halfling staff sling as an exotic, 1-handed, extended range sling or they could use an appropriately sized one normally.
Cheers
Just say no to the Hoopak.....
lol
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Just expanding on the idea that Halflings are good with slings I came up with...
Halfling Staff Sling: Cost -, Dmg (S) 1d6, Dmg (M) 1d8, Critical x2, Range Increment 80 ft., Weight 4 lbs., Type Bludgeoning. Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a halfling staff sling, just as it does for all thrown weapons. The halfling staff sling is a two-handed weapon. Apply 1 1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage rolls for attacks with this weapon. Loading a halfling staff sling is a move equivalent action that requires two hands and provokes an attack of opportunity. You can hurl bullets or flasks with a halfling staff sling, but usually stones are used. When using bullets an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. If using a flask, or attacking a target closer than 40 ft., you suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls (the penalties are cumulative). With the sling stowed, the weapon functions as a quarterstaff.
It's simple, cheap, has historic roots and I guess larger races could theoretically use the standard halfling staff sling as an exotic, 1-handed, extended range sling or they could use an appropriately sized one normally.
Cheers
I like this. I also have fond memories of making a kender with a hoopak.
I like the idea of the warsling much better. Thrown weapons typically have a ridiculously short range which makes them much less useful for actual ranged combat.
Perhaps a halfling atlatl?
Edit: I was just thinking of the variety of ammo that could be used with this thing: darts, javelins, sling bullets, flasks of acid and other nasty stuff. The list goes on and on.
I like the idea of the warsling much better. Thrown weapons typically have a ridiculously short range which makes them much less useful for actual ranged combat.
How would you differentiate a warsling from a bow, crossbow, etc. etc. other than bludgeoning damage (which tends to be a worse alternative than Piercing and Slashing anyway)? Most of the racial weapons are simple variations on a theme, but compared to the base alternative they're superior. I'm not sure how you make a sling better and still not have a regular bow or crossbow not be a better choice.
The thrown weapon option adds variety to mix. Don't discount its utility either. There are many situations where you can't get a ranged weapon into your hands, you need one, and there's a sword ready to go.
I like the idea of the warsling much better. Thrown weapons typically have a ridiculously short range which makes them much less useful for actual ranged combat.How would you differentiate a warsling from a bow, crossbow, etc. etc. other than bludgeoning damage (which tends to be a worse alternative than Piercing and Slashing anyway)? Most of the racial weapons are simple variations on a theme, but compared to the base alternative they're superior. I'm not sure how you make a sling better and still not have a regular bow or crossbow not be a better choice.
The thrown weapon option adds variety to mix. Don't discount its utility either. There are many situations where you can't get a ranged weapon into your hands, you need one, and there's a sword ready to go.
slings act more like thrown weapons than bows or crossbows. Slings do strength damage have shorter range, do bludgeoning....
My gripe with thrown weapons is almost all of them have a ridiculously low range increment.
The halfling thrown weapon goes back to the tolkien days of hobbits begin good at throwing rocks(bilbo in mirkwood hucking stones at the spiders)
1st ED had a bonus for halflings with any thrown weapon (basically a weapon focus with any thrown weapon)
Im not sure but I beleive another rendition of the DnD halfling had them with a bonus on slings (that might have been the dragon lance kender, I dont remember)
But at this point, halfings and thrown projectiles is iconic and definately should be represented, in my opinion.
Let me also say, most of the oriental weapons are annoying, and are just fancy names for weapons already in the game elsewhere (sickle and kama, nunchucks and flail...etc)
Why not have katanas instead of just using the bastard sword?
Im still in favor of the generalization of the fantasy weapons, rather than having lists of redundant weapons that do nearly (if not exactly) the same thing game mechanic wise.
Replacing shuriken, with thowing blade would be a good one. Blending the kama into the sickle and giving the new sikcle the best qualities of both weapons (and having a better crit for that weapon) etc etc would go far for concepts like this, where small throwing blades could be carried by the halfling and everyone not think they were out of place due to the name of the weapon.
The monk would be given weapons from the new "fantasy" weapon list, rather than having weapons exist basically only for the monk.
AS his concept is he mainly uses the weapons of peasants to fight with and blend in, not looking "armed" perse.
However, Im not in support of kender hoopaks or african boomerangs or funny little twigy throwing things.
If anything give them a sling weapon focus and a throwing dagger weapon focus. Thatd be pretty powerful in and of itself.
Thrown weapons aren't even mentioned in the halfling racial entry in the AD&D PHB. I'm not sure where else the bonus might be, it's been a while since I actually played AD&D.
3.5 has a bonus for thrown things -or- the sling.
To be honest the easiest fix for the halfling would be to return the +1 thrown/ sling bonus and just ditch the whole exotic weapon thing.
Thrown weapons aren't even mentioned in the halfling racial entry in the AD&D PHB. I'm not sure where else the bonus might be, it's been a while since I actually played AD&D.
3.5 has a bonus for thrown things -or- the sling.
To be honest the easiest fix for the halfling would be to return the +1 thrown/ sling bonus and just ditch the whole exotic weapon thing.
I agree that this is the easiest fix. The staff sling just sounds cool. It's a versatile item I could imagine being used by wandering bands of halflings, who aren't always strong enough to haul a lot of heavy weapons along with all their other stuff. Other races have unique weapons. Why wouldn't the little guys?
If you check out the staff sling link, it gets good range (80-120 yard estimated range?), and was easy to make and use-- definitely not an exotic weapon. I can imagine a halfling with a staff with a notch on it for an improved-range impromptu sling. They're resourceful little folks.
How many halfling characters take advantage of their +1 to thrown weapons? Not any, in my experience. The Throw Anything feat might see some use if halflings got it for free. They might throw a rock or two now and then. Great for flavor, fits the archetype, and isn't better than other ranged weapon options.
+1 to thrown, sling, and halfling staff-sling. Me likee! I'm gonna roll up a halfling barbarian right now! :)
Thrown weapons aren't even mentioned in the halfling racial entry in the AD&D PHB. I'm not sure where else the bonus might be, it's been a while since I actually played AD&D.
3.5 has a bonus for thrown things -or- the sling.
To be honest the easiest fix for the halfling would be to return the +1 thrown/ sling bonus and just ditch the whole exotic weapon thing.
I agree that this is the easiest fix. The staff sling just sounds cool. It's a versatile item I could imagine being used by wandering bands of halflings, who aren't always strong enough to haul a lot of heavy weapons along with all their other stuff. Other races have unique weapons. Why wouldn't the little guys?
If you check out the staff sling link, it gets good range (80-120 yard estimated range?), and was easy to make and use-- definitely not an exotic weapon. I can imagine a halfling with a staff with a notch on it for an improved-range impromptu sling. They're resourceful little folks.
How many halfling characters take advantage of their +1 to thrown weapons? Not any, in my experience. The Throw Anything feat might see some use if halflings got it for free. They might throw a rock or two now and then. Great for flavor, fits the archetype, and isn't better than other ranged weapon options.
+1 to thrown, sling, and halfling staff-sling. Me likee! I'm gonna roll up a halfling barbarian right now! :)
The staff slingis the hoopak, plagerized from the dragonlance campaign material and Im pretty certain isnt OGL. Thats probably why they are called kender and not halfing.
I always hated the staff sling as it seemed to be more of a slingshot that modern day little kids use to hassle squirrles, where as he "sling" is a viable weapon and not a childs toy.The israelites where well as well known for their skilled slingers as the english were for their longbows.
David slew goliath with a sling, not a slingshot.
Much hate for the staffsling, and Im pretty sure we can't use it in this game anyhow.
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SlingStaff was also in the 2e Arms & Equipment Guide - i always thought it was cool and have periodically seeded them as treasure in my games.
Always liked the Halfling +1 to thrown. Would support the idea of a Halfling Exotic weapon whether it was Sling Staff or Throwing Stick (Boomerang which returned on missed attacks would help carrying capacity). Love any idea that adds flavor without becoming too unbalanced.
In the end who doesn't want to give the halfling a little love. I'm always happier GMing a group with a halfling in it...
How many halfling characters take advantage of their +1 to thrown weapons? Not any, in my experience. The Throw Anything feat might see some use if halflings got it for free. They might throw a rock or two now and then. Great for flavor, fits the archetype, and isn't better than other ranged weapon options.
A lot of halflings used the +1 thrown bonus, add in the small size bonus and halflings had +2 attack bonus on any thrown/ sling weapon. Halflings with a high strength made great throwers.
Pendagast: The sling staff is a historical weapon (Google is your friend) not a sling shot or something invented for the kender. The Dragonlance books used it and perhaps it's corrupted in your mind due to that but it dates back to AD&D before Dragonlance existed. I believe it was introduces in the first Unearthed Arcana.
The slingstaff would be ok if they were able to use it like a club and threaten adjacent squares. Otherwise I would say stick with straight sling.
wasnt dragonlance before unearthed arcana?
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wasnt dragonlance before unearthed arcana?
The first novel came out in 1984, while Unearthed Arcana was printed in 1985, but the staff-sling had appeared previously in Dragon (IIRC) and in the Mystara setting, as early as 1980.
Go, go, useless information powers!
And I totally want the +1 halfling bonus with thrown weapons and slings to come back, as well as a halfling sling-staff or sling-mace (just smacking someone with the whirling rock, instead of hurling it) techniques, and perhaps some other cool stuff, like halfling skiprocks or throwing sticks / talenta boomerangs.
wasnt dragonlance before unearthed arcana?The first novel came out in 1984, while Unearthed Arcana was printed in 1985, but the staff-sling had appeared previously in Dragon (IIRC) and in the Mystara setting, as early as 1980.
Go, go, useless information powers!
And I totally want the +1 halfling bonus with thrown weapons and slings to come back, as well as a halfling sling-staff or sling-mace (just smacking someone with the whirling rock, instead of hurling it) techniques, and perhaps some other cool stuff, like halfling skiprocks or throwing sticks / talenta boomerangs.
halfling hucking skills I'm all for.
I just dont think I can stand anymore items in the weapons list that have redunant mechanics as other entries.I think the weapon list should be simplified
Ie (Bastard sword meaning: Claymore, flambourge, katana....Longsword meaning any one handed bladed weapon between 3 and 4.5 ft long..... simitar meaning falcata, khopesh, etc etc etc )
No more silly weapons just to take up precious pages, like the klar which is less useful than a spiked buckler and if you wanted your spiked buckler to do bladed damage instead of peircing I dont see why you couldnt have the DM accept it if you had a weaponsmith make one.
shurikens being renamed as throwing blades? Definately.
drop stupid weapons like siangham, nunchucks (which were arguably only invented by modern movies) roll the sickle and kama together...
Not really sure why the kukri is really that much different than a dagger other than its the scimitar version of a dagger...
But i'd even go so far as granting the halfing additional damage with rocks and slings according to their skill and affinity with hurling.
Id like to see more game mechanics for thrown weapons anyway (axes for dwarves, rocks for halfings, daggers for rogues etc)
Thrown weapons could use some more love.
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No more silly weapons just to take up precious pages, like the klar which is less useful than a spiked buckler and if you wanted your spiked buckler to do bladed damage instead of peircing I dont see why you couldnt have the DM accept it if you had a weaponsmith make one.
Nitpick point: You can't shield bash with a buckler.
Nitpick point: You can't shield bash with a buckler.
No more silly weapons just to take up precious pages, like the klar which is less useful than a spiked buckler and if you wanted your spiked buckler to do bladed damage instead of peircing I dont see why you couldnt have the DM accept it if you had a weaponsmith make one.
spiked buckler has existed since 1e,where are the rules hiding that change that?
PFRPG 109 (buckler) & PFRPG 111 (Shield Spikes). Similar entries in the SRD. Klar is not so useless anymore, eh? ;)
spiked buckler has existed since 1e,where are the rules hiding that change that?
well klar is just bringing back the old spiked buckler of previous editions. Might as well not have changed the rules.
Another klar question however, can i use one in both hands, two weapon fight with them and get the bonus of both shields (with using the right feats) as well?
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You can only gain one shield bonus at a time, like you can gain only one armour bonus.
Now, getting back on topic, here's my suggestion for the halfling weapon thingy. I think that the race entry should have the following added:
Master Thrower: Halflings have excellent hand-eye coordination and take great pride in their ability to throw small stones and objects with great precision. To reflect this, halflings gain a +1 to hit and damage with any thrown weapon. In addition to this, they also suffer no penalty for throwing light improvised weapons (eg. stones, sticks, tankards, etc as long at it is under 1 lb).
I put a similar caveat in my kobold idea to reflect their familiarity with miner's picks. It made sense for a race that is intimately familiar with the workings of an item to be able to use it as an improvised weapon, so why not for halflings and their propensity for "chuckin' stuff"? :)
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Another klar question however, can i use one in both hands, two weapon fight with them and get the bonus of both shields (with using the right feats) as well?
If you can't, then there need to be a feat where you can, 'cause the visual is too cool to not exist.
In fact, that's the *only* way I'd want to see a Klar, is used in pairs like that, since that's what it seems visually made for. A Klar combined with another weapon, IMO, would look pretty lame.
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Another klar question however, can i use one in both hands, two weapon fight with them and get the bonus of both shields (with using the right feats) as well?If you can't, then there need to be a feat where you can, 'cause the visual is too cool to not exist.
In fact, that's the *only* way I'd want to see a Klar, is used in pairs like that, since that's what it seems visually made for. A Klar combined with another weapon, IMO, would look pretty lame.
An adjustment to two weapon defense that says is stacks with the shield bonus of the klar would do it.