Hopefully others can use this thread to clarify questions arising in this adventure. If you happen to see another thread, please link post a link in this one to try and keep things tied together.
Chapter 1: Howl of the Carrion King
Chapter 2: House of the Beast
Chapter 3: The Jackal's Price
Chapter 4: The End of Eternity
Chapter 5: The Impossible Eye
Chapter 6: The Final Wish
"In the next week or so, we're expecting to ship the next volume of your subscription."
Another AP coming to an end. You know the drill, people!
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I'm only browsed this adventure so far, but I noticed a few things that seem a little off with Jhavhul. Usual disclaimers (i.e., I may be wrong) apply.
- Jhavhul has 22 hit dice, but I don't know if the epic character rules apply to an advanced monster with only a handful of class levels. If they do, Jhavhul's base attack should be 21, not 22. If they don't, it's all good.
- Jhavhul should have 8 feats from levels, 3 from fighter bonus feats and 1 bonus feat (Improved Initiative) for being a genie, for a total of 12 feats. However, he only has 11 listed feats; maybe Improved Initiative got counted as a 'real' feat by mistake? My suggestion is to give him Cleave to round out his feats.
I'm also having some issues with his stats; I can't work him out having spend 5 stat points no matter how I slice it, and I can work him out as having spent as few as 2. I'm not going to go into it because he's on a points buy, and I can't possibly calculate all the permutations that he could have wound up with.
In other news, I am terrifed by Jhavhul's Strength score. I'm also debating turning his scimitar into a falchion, just to really make my players sweat. Of course, that would render his force shield ring unusable. Decisions, decisions. :D
Great adventure, guys!
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After a slightly more in depth read through the adventure, I've only found two other minor errors, both on Jhavhul.
- Jhavhul's armour bonus should be +10, assuming his equipment list is accurate.
- Jhavhul's flat-footed AC should be 2 points higher.
Taking those two things together, Jhavhul's AC should read as follows:
AC 35, touch 14, flat-footed 33
I will now go dive back into the wishcraft article!
EDIT: Although, thinking about it, Jhavhul's movement doesn't seem to be impaired if he is indeed wearing a breastplate, so maybe +9 armour is right and it's really a chain shirt? Do efreeti even suffer movement penalties for armour, considering their already low base movement score? Bewilderingly low, really. I wonder why they were given only 20 ft. base move in the first place?
- Jhavhul has 22 hit dice, but I don't know if the epic character rules apply to an advanced monster with only a handful of class levels. If they do, Jhavhul's base attack should be 21, not 22. If they don't, it's all good.
- Jhavhul should have 8 feats from levels, 3 from fighter bonus feats and 1 bonus feat (Improved Initiative) for being a genie, for a total of 12 feats. However, he only has 11 listed feats; maybe Improved Initiative got counted as a 'real' feat by mistake? My suggestion is to give him Cleave to round out his feats.
If the missing feat is Epic Prowess then that solves both issues. :) (I know that it's not a +1 to BAB, but it'll have a similar effect.)
My players killed Kardswaan in Howl however the Cleric who put him down realized he had been mentally dominated after they defeated Xulthos. He immediately showed remorse for his actions went back and cast gentle repose on the corpse so he can get him resurrected. It says that if Kardswaan lives he goes back to Nefeshti does he just show up and say like "hey you got a problem over at pale mountain, peace." or does he stick around and rejoin the Templar organization? I was hoping we'd get to see a fully rebuffed Kardswaan who had rejoined his former order and was returned to glory to help the PCs. Any thoughts?
Creative Director
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Epic level advancement doesn't enter into the matter for a creature with a lot of racial HD. This might not be entirely correct, but it's always been my preferred way to handle it for monsters, since they should NOT be balanced in the same way as PCs are. And the epic level advancement rules are more for PCs than monsters anyway.
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Epic level advancement doesn't enter into the matter for a creature with a lot of racial HD. This might not be entirely correct, but it's always been my preferred way to handle it for monsters, since they should NOT be balanced in the same way as PCs are. And the epic level advancement rules are more for PCs than monsters anyway.
I'd say that's the right choice to make, mostly on the basis of dragons. They already break epic character rules as written, and I don't see why they should be the only ones that get to do so. I'll remember not to flag it up in future. :)
Other than the North Bridge and the Temple of Sarenrae, I'm not really seeing the locations on the map where the battle for Kelmerane are supposed to happen. The Postern Gate description talks about a defensive wall that isn't even there. What's up?
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Other than the North Bridge and the Temple of Sarenrae, I'm not really seeing the locations on the map where the battle for Kelmerane are supposed to happen. The Postern Gate description talks about a defensive wall that isn't even there. What's up?
Let me see if I can help you out:
It looks like the map locations were lost somewhere in editing. As for discrepancies with walls and such, at the time there was only a map of Kelmarane in ruins - apparently they got rid of some walls completely when they rebuilt the town! In some cases, looking at the ruined map of Kelmarane in Howl of the Carrion King might make locations clearer.
1. North Bridge - this is the building just northwest of the brige over the river. (On the HotCK map, it's between B5 and B7)
2. Lower Gate - this is the big building that blocks the eastern part of the town (the Lower Town) from the rest of the town (the Upper Town). (On the HotCK map, this is B2)
3. Postern Gate - this is 2 buildings due east of the Temple of Sarenrae, the third and fourth, to be exact. Again, if you look at the map of ruined Kelmarane in HotCK, you can see what looks like a ruined wall between the big and small buildings (the tower and stables). It looks like when the map was redrawn, that wall was lost. It should definitely be there, or it's not much of a gatehouse!
4. Temple of Sarenrae - hopefully, this one's obvious. :)
Thanks Rob!
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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It looks like there's a small error in the Simurgh Wholesome Touch ability. It mentions that it can be used 8 times a day (a number of times per day equal to its Charisma modifier). However, it has a Charisma of 23, which would only give it 6 times per day. Which is correct? Or should it be Charisma modifier +2 times per day?
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Creative Director
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It looks like there's a small error in the Simurgh Wholesome Touch ability. It mentions that it can be used 8 times a day (a number of times per day equal to its Charisma modifier). However, it has a Charisma of 23, which would only give it 6 times per day. Which is correct? Or should it be Charisma modifier +2 times per day?
Six times a day would be correct.
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The Xotani Grave map on page 37 lacks a grid scale. I assume it's 10' per square, otherwise it might be too constrained for all the Large creatures to move around.
Also, I failed to notice any art for Nefeshti. *snif*
Sorry to have not seen this earlier...
Yes, the map scale in Xotani's Grave is 10 ft. per square.
As for Nefeshti, there is already a headshot of her on p.7 of Pathfinder #21, The Jackal's Price. But at least you get a full pic of Rajali in The Final Wish! :)
My group just started the Impossible Eye and I'm now doing my prep for the Final Wish. As I read through the module, I keep coming back to one question I can't find an answer for - why should anyone care about Kelmarane?
Why did Jhavhul leave forces in Kelmarane? Jhavhul easily conquered the town while the PCs were on other planes. I can't see any reason why he would leave any of his allies in the town. It makes much more sense to keep his allies close to prevent any interruption of his final wishes rather than send some miles away where they can be completely ignored by Jhavhul's enemies. All the townsfolk should be force marched to the House of the Beast and kept imprisoned there.
Why does Nefeshti care about Kelmarane? Jhavhul is in the House of the Beast completing his final wishes. Fighting in Kelmarane does nothing to stop Jhavhul. Worse, it wastes resources/lives and it gives Jhavhul warning that she and her allies will be coming for him.
As for the PCs, some of them probably have attachments in Kelmarane giving them good reason to fight. But, the PCs probably also know Jhavhul's goal is to revive/become the Firebleeder and just how bad of a situation that is. Even for a Lawful Good party, it seems an easy decision to delay freeing Kelmarane and go straight for the House of the Beast first.
Why did Jhavhul leave forces in Kelmarane? Jhavhul easily conquered the town while the PCs were on other planes. I can't see any reason why he would leave any of his allies in the town. It makes much more sense to keep his allies close to prevent any interruption of his final wishes rather than send some miles away where they can be completely ignored by Jhavhul's enemies. All the townsfolk should be force marched to the House of the Beast and kept imprisoned there.
How about this?
When Jhavul was flying toward Pale Mountain he saw that a bunch of humans had dared to build a town much closer to his headquarters than he ever would have allowed, so he stopped and conquered them. He still didn't know what to expect to find in Pale Mountain, so he tossed down an artifact and left a couple of retainers behind with instructions to keep sending prisoners so that he could finish his wishes. He's almost done, and the current system is working, so why much with a forced march of an entire village when he only needs a dozen or so more prisoners?
Why does Nefeshti care about Kelmarane? Jhavhul is in the House of the Beast completing his final wishes. Fighting in Kelmarane does nothing to stop Jhavhul. Worse, it wastes resources/lives and it gives Jhavhul warning that she and her allies will be coming for him.
It's important to remember that Nefeshti always loses. She makes poor strategic decisions. She ultimately has no templars left because they all got sick of her being unable to see the big picture. I'm running The Final Wish and I'm using Nefeshti and the Kelmarane story to run down the clock, and the players have just figured that out.
As for the PCs, some of them probably have attachments in Kelmarane giving them good reason to fight. But, the PCs probably also know Jhavhul's goal is to revive/become the Firebleeder and just how bad of a situation that is. Even for a Lawful Good party, it seems an easy decision to delay freeing Kelmarane and go straight for the House of the Beast first.
I had them make a deal with Nefeshti to free Kelmarane in exchange for some early wishes, so now they had to honour the deal. They're getting pretty sick of her though and I suspect will soon rush off to Pale Mountain in spite of her continuing "one last little job, won't take a moment" instructions.
I'd like to point out that:
The bad guy in Kelmarane (Davvashum) has the bone key to the portal in the Garden of the Stone Speakers.
Of course the Players could assault the Garden and find they don't have the key so they can't get to where Jhavul is.
Good catch, Lord Pel! I was concentrating on in-character reasons and completely neglected plot considerations.
Thanks guys. While Lord Pel's point does give a reason to liberate Kelmarane (or at least a reason to attack one NPC in Kelmarane), there's still no reason for Jhavhul to have left forces in the town after conquering it. He has plenty of prison capacity in the House of the Beast that there's no need to split his forces and make prisoner deliveries from Kelmarane.
Lord Pel's point also brings up a problem I need to solve...
Alternative thoughts encased to protect from spoilage:
One thought I has was just to do away with the whole bone key altogether and just have the portal room active in the garden continuously now that Daddy is home.
I can come up with a lot of different reasons why Jhavul might want a presence in Kelmarane. Remember, he is a BBEG with all the ego to match. Kelmarane is a town under seige. If the residents try to fly, they will be struck down. If they stay, then the may be taken off to HoB. What a delicious set up to generate fear in a populace than to watch their friends and neighbours get pulled from their homes. I am sure this is something that Jhavul and his hot-headed Efreet brethren would just love to have.
With this as the background, we have Davie Shum. He reads to me as a somewhat tired and depressed individual. Resigned to his ultimate fate of being destroyed, though whether from Xotani or from the PCs, I don;t think he cares. Add to that the morale note that he lives to serve Jhavul then you get that even though he expects to be destroyed (and in some ways longs for it) his orders from Jhavul are to watch over the city and so, that is what he will do.
And, if you really want to play havoc with the PCs, have Davie Plane Shift the PCs. Those who fail their will save will suddenly find themselves on some other plane. Delicious no?
EDIT: Delicious, no. Just checked the bestiary and it is only willing targets that can be affected by his Plane Shift. *pout* So much for THOSE plans.
Just a little more exposition:
Jhavul's forces are efreets mainly yes? If he kept them at HoB, they would get all cooped up with no one to torment. By having Kelmarane as it is listed in the book, it keeps his forces under control.
At least this is how I think it was intended.
The interior of the Brazen Tower is protected by a constant dimensional lock effect (p. 23). He'd have to walk out the front door first in order to shift away. He thinks that Nefeshti is useless and that his boss is about to win, and also he's been ordered to stay put. I think it's fine to have him stick around.
Your turn for the 'good catch' of the fay, Tbug!
The interior of the Brazen Tower is protected by a constant dimensional lock effect (p. 23). He'd have to walk out the front door first in order to shift away. He thinks that Nefeshti is useless and that his boss is about to win, and also he's been ordered to stay put. I think it's fine to have him stick around.
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Thanks Rob. Also, should Davashuum be a CR 14 instead? By my understanding, with non-key class levels, you add them at a rate of +2 levels/+1 CR until the levels equal or exceed the original CR, then it becomes a 1/1 rate. Davashuum is a janni, originally a CR 4, so 4 of the monk levels would be at the 2/1 rate (increasing his CR to 6). The rest of the levels would be at a 1/1 rate, so adding another 8 levels would increase the CR to 14.
Is this right?
EDIT: Also, are the changes from Change Size already factored into Davashuum? It appears like this since his reach is at 10 ft. and such, but I didn't see an 'original stats' section for his original STR and such.
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Thanks Rob. Also, should Davashuum be a CR 14 instead? By my understanding, with non-key class levels, you add them at a rate of +2 levels/+1 CR until the levels equal or exceed the original CR, then it becomes a 1/1 rate. Davashuum is a janni, originally a CR 4, so 4 of the monk levels would be at the 2/1 rate (increasing his CR to 6). The rest of the levels would be at a 1/1 rate, so adding another 8 levels would increase the CR to 14.
Is this right?
EDIT: Also, are the changes from Change Size already factored into Davashuum? It appears like this since his reach is at 10 ft. and such, but I didn't see an 'original stats' section for his original STR and such.
Keep in mind that he was created using 3.5 rather than PFRPG rules. If converting him over to Pathfinder, your math would be correct and he would be CR 14. But he's actually kind of low for CR 14, especially looking at AC and hp (although his high average damage from his flurry makes up for that to some extent). So it's a careful balancing act, which gets more difficult the higher you go. I'd probably keep him at CR 13, unless converting him to PFRPG really bumps him up a bit.
And his stat block should reflect the changes from Large size. The base statistics were probably cut for space, so you'll have to subtract out the bonuses if you need those stats.
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Converting him seems to put him at a higher power level, definitely. AC/attacks/etc. don't change much, but the fact that he can abundant step 4 times means I can have him disarm two people of their weapons with a flurry, poof away, drop the weapons off, come back, and do it again. That's four weapons, probably the main ones, gone, and it leaves him the 1 ki point necessary to keep his static ki abilities going. And with a +25 to disarm (+23/+23/+18/+18/+13 if I do my flurry as all disarms), he is probably going to disarm most of the characters.
Full conversion in the spoiler. Feels like a CR 14 now to me :D
Here is one last question though. Both him and the gnoll priest in the temple of Sarenrae have Resist fire 10. Where does this come from? I can't see anything on Davashuum that would give this. The gnoll could cast resist energy, but that's not in the 'pre-battle' bit and it would actually give him resist 30.
Davashuum
DAVASHUUM CR 14
XP 38,400
Male janni monk 12
LE Large outsider (native)
Init +9 (+8 after change size); Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +22
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DEFENSE
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AC 23, touch 20, flat-footed 19 (+3 armor, +1 deflection, +4 Dex, +3 monk, -1 size, +3 Wis)
hp 159 (18 HD; 6d10+12d8+72)
Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +13; +2 vs. enchantment
Defensive Abilities improved evasion, slow fall 60 ft.; Immune nonmagical disease, poison;
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OFFENSE
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Spd 70 ft., fly 20 ft. (perfect)
Melee Maelstrom +22/+22/+17/+17/+12 (1d8+8/19-20 plus 1d6 electricity) or flurry of blows +20/+20/+15/+15/+10 (3d6+5)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks abundant step (2 ki points; CL 12th), change size, ki pool (9 points), stunning fist 12/day (stun, fatigue, sicken, or staggered; DC 19)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 18th; concentration +19)
3/day – invisibility (self only), plane shift (willing targets to elemental planes, Astral Plane, or Material Plane only), speak with animals
1/day – create food and water, ethereal jaunt (for 1 hour)
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STATISTICS
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Str 21, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12
Base Atk +15; CMB +23 (+25 disarm); CMD 45 (47 vs. disarm)
Feats Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Critical (quarterstaff), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Vital Strike, Mobility, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (change size), Stunning Fist, Spring Attack, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff), Wind Stance
Skills Acrobatics +25 (+53 jump), Craft (bookbinding) +10, Craft (calligraphy) +10, Escape Artist +23, Fly +19 (+15 after change size), Perception +22, Ride +13, Sense Motive +22, Stealth +25 (+21 after change size)
Languages Common, Ignan, Infernal; telepathy 100 ft.
SQ elemental endurance, high jump, maneuver training, slow fall 60 ft., wholeness of body (12 hp/2 ki points)
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds (3); Other Gear bracers of armor +3, Maelstrom (+1 ki focus shock thundering quarterstaff), ring of protection +1, key to strongbox in B12
Both him and the gnoll priest in the temple of Sarenrae have Resist fire 10. Where does this come from? I can't see anything on Davashuum that would give this.
Davashuum is a Janni. Janni have resist fire 10 (both in 3.5 and PFRPG).
The Gnoll priest looks like he should either have no resistance or 30 resistance (if the Resist Energy spell is included).
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Both him and the gnoll priest in the temple of Sarenrae have Resist fire 10. Where does this come from? I can't see anything on Davashuum that would give this.Davashuum is a Janni. Janni have resist fire 10 (both in 3.5 and PFRPG).
The Gnoll priest looks like he should either have no resistance or 30 resistance (if the Resist Energy spell is included).
Doh, I cannot believe I missed that. Agreed on the gnoll though, should be 0 or 30.
For Xotani's Grave (ie the final dungeon) are players supposed to just skip 2/3rds of it? If the players just move straight forward they get to the final encounter after only having participated in 2 other encounters. Similarly, if they hug the north wall they only get into 3 encounters. The south route has a little bit more to it I guess.
Jhavhul doesn't seem to be hidden or have much in the way protecting him. I guess I'm accustomed to semi-linear dungeons where the PCs have to encounter nearly everything before they can confront the boss. But here, it seems extremely improbable to encounter Rajali, for example.
Am I missing something?
(and PS - doesn't 120 degrees seem awfully cold for a cavern filled with liquid lava?)
For Xotani's Grave (ie the final dungeon) are players supposed to just skip 2/3rds of it? If the players just move straight forward they get to the final encounter after only having participated in 2 other encounters. Similarly, if they hug the north wall they only get into 3 encounters. The south route has a little bit more to it I guess.
Jhavhul doesn't seem to be hidden or have much in the way protecting him. I guess I'm accustomed to semi-linear dungeons where the PCs have to encounter nearly everything before they can confront the boss. But here, it seems extremely improbable to encounter Rajali, for example.
Am I missing something?
(and PS - doesn't 120 degrees seem awfully cold for a cavern filled with liquid lava?)
Nope. You aren't missing anything. There is a chance that the players will just go straight for Jhavhul. Of course you could always take GM privilege and 're-arrange' things. *evil grin*
And yes, 120 degrees is a little chilly for lava, but remember, Jhavhul is a genie...maybe he has the AC cranked to make it more comfortable for Rajali.
Also, one thing to thnk about is that Jhavhul could be a really rough encounter by himself, if the players encounter Rajali and have to burn through some resources... Well, it would just make that final battle rougher. Depending on how hard you want to make that final BBEG will help you decide if you even *want* your players to burn some resources.
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As I read through the module, I keep coming back to one question I can't find an answer for - why should anyone care about Kelmarane?
When Vardishal loses favor with Nefeshti, he returns to Kelmarene as well to keep an eye on things. Seems like the place is very important but we don't really know why.
What if the final battle between Jhavul and the Templars took place on what is now Kelmarene? Vardishal returns there as the site of his greatest victory, Jhavul stops there to 'desecrate' the site, Nefeshti cares about it because... uh....Vardishal cared about it and she wants to honor him? The Moldspeaker is driven there by Vardishal's need to reclaim his base.
Or maybe it's not a simple matter of it being just the site of the final battle. Perhaps when Jhavul was sucked into Kashikon it also sucked in some other stuff - magic items? arcane power site? some item of Nefeshti's? When the scroll is destroyed, that item reappears in Kelmarene and the PCs have reason to go get it.
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Apologies if someone has asked this before, but I didn't see a question about it so far.
*Spoiler alert*
According to the item upgrade in The Final Wish, "Tempest" gains the all-around-sight ability and is able to communicate with its wielder telepathically (or empathically, I forget which). Does this confer the usual immunity to flanking upon the wielder, then, since it isn't technically the wielder who has the all-around-sight? I'm thinking the telepathic (or empathic) communication should bridge that gap and allow the wielder to have immunity to flanking, but I'm not sure.
Yes. At least in my game it does, but I am a kind, and gentle GM.
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In room K4 of Book 2, House of Beast, it advises:
I haven't read that far ahead in the AP but my PCs should arrive here in tonight's game. Can I get some ideas about what I should disclose? Thanks.
What is written in the first paragraph should suffice, in my opinion. Basically, it allows you to inform the players that Jhavhul used wish-enhanced creatures in the past, and he might do so again.
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What is written in the first paragraph should suffice, in my opinion. Basically, it allows you to inform the players that Jhavhul used wish-enhanced creatures in the past, and he might do so again.
I'm at work with no access to it. Could you give me the cliff note version please?
I'm not sure how the PCs walking through tunnels would allow them to figure this out.
It says this:
"Many of these tunnels are lined with burial niches, some of which contain strange bodies that seem something more than human. Some bodies are twice as large as a man, some have additional arms and bestial features, or are strangely undecayed and remain beautiful or handsome even in death. These bodies are the remains of Jhavhul's cult, and those bearing unusual transformations are those who wished for things like great strength, eternal youth, or other physical transformations."
In essence, the bodies show signs of wishcraft, and appropriate knowledge [arcana] checks would tell you that's what it looks like.
I'm not finding where this actually pans out in this mod (ie LoF #6). Sure there's wishwarps, but other than that, I can only find two wish-altered people: the giants with fancy swords, and the wizard with diamond skin. (Both of which are easily missable encounters due to the layout of the final dungeon.) Are there any other strangely warped minions that I'm not seeing?
I'm not finding where this actually pans out in this mod (ie LoF #6). Sure there's wishwarps, but other than that, I can only find two wish-altered people: the giants with fancy swords, and the wizard with diamond skin. (Both of which are easily missable encounters due to the layout of the final dungeon.) Are there any other strangely warped minions that I'm not seeing?
I agree that there are too few obviously wishwarped creatures in it (I plan to change that, though; I intend to have unique wishwarpings for each Giant, and for some of the others as well). I would have liked many more like the diamond-skinned spellcaster.
The wishwarped creatures, beyond those you mention, are very unlikely to be noticed as such by the players. This is because they have been warped into normal versions of another species:
The Mohrgs, the Erinyes and the Kolyarut were all originally another species, and Jhavhul's wishes made them what they are now.
So my players have decided to skip the battles entirely and simply use a Wish to teleport into the tower.
1) The brazen tower "hampers teleportation effect..within the tower". Does that stop you from teleporting INTO the tower? Or just OUT of it?
Both. Whole area of the Tower is teleportation-proof, meaning they can't teleport into it, out of it or within it.
OK, can't go in or out. So if you're outside the tower and attempt to teleport into the top floor - does your teleportation just fail and you remain where you are? Or do you find yourself 100 feet up in the air, just outside the tower's upper floor?