Does anyone have a good list of suggested minis for this adventure?
I've been trying to get a grip on how everything in this adventure is connected up before I run it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - it appears to be possible to finish without a single combat.
At that point, if they go south, they come to an apparent dead end and try going north. If they go north, they find themselves in the crosshairs of a ballista. Dodging into the first available door gets them to C11, which conveniently leads them up to the 3rd floor.
That puts the players in D5, which had some fire giants and hell hounds. However, it's a very big area, containing a whole camp and plenty of cover. Sneaking through to D2 without getting in a fight seems plausible. From there, a fly spell will take the party up to the tower (remember, they know that's their goal).
If the party brought the perpetual flame with them, or has High Noon Fire Monsoon from book 3, they can retrieve the Impossible Eye without having been to Ymeri's pyramid. Once they have it, they can wave down the friendly local dragon and ask to trade it in exchange for ending the curse. A Level 9+ cleric could then cast plane shift to get the party home, and it's done.
I didn't go double-check the maps but that seems about right. I don't see it as a problem though. (1) Every castle shouldn't be a gauntlet - there should be ways through. (2) The likelihood of the players taking every correct turn seems pretty slim.
If you really don't want to allow it, let the watcher be a problem when they attempt to fly.,
Contributor
|
Seems absolutely plausible, but it requires tremendous luck, skill, and GM decision. If you want the PCs to waltz through, go for it. My group got into almost every fight, insisting on clearing levels before they moved on... I kind of wish they had tried to go straight for the end with hindsight
Well, they're going to fight at least the initial group of Brass Men, as those are summoned by the appearance of the PCs arriving via the Scroll of Kakishon.
On a related note,
Would the magical protections of the Grand Vizier's curse prevent a character from retrieving materials stored on the ethereal plane via a Secret Chest spell?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My Play-By-Post group has just started The Impossible Eye and they are currently going through the maze in area A1. They quickly figured out the 4-2-1 pattern (with some negative stimuli) and barely survived after the paladin was dropped over the vortex of fire when he tried a #3 door. They learned quickly and will not touch any #3 doors again.
Having looped around to A1g, I know they will just continue on to door #2. Following suggestions on this post, I have come up with some modifications that I think will work out well. So I'm posting them here in case anyone else comes along and can use this...
- I have severed the connection between A1g and A1h for door #1.
- I connected the 1's between A1d and A1h.
- I connected the 2's between A1h and A1g.
- I connected the 1's between A1c and A1g.
- I connected the 4's between A1d and A1e.
- I connected the 2's between A1b and A1f.
I ignored all the 3's since the PCs won't do that again. But if they do and they make their will save, I'll figure it out then.
This mapping connects everything together in a pattern that they can eventually figure out, and if they follow the 4-2-1 path they will make it to every room in there. It will also lead them to area A5, and if they survive and come back they can continue working their way through the maze. This will bring them eventually back to room A1a, but not out to the lava landing. But with the animals on the roof, they'll realize that this is the door they need to go through. They will have to take the pain to go through the curtain to make it back out. It will also mess with the mind of someone trying to map it out since it will appear that the rooms go over the lava pit and don't make sense, plus the connection between A1d and A1e will invert them further confusing them.
This will be fun to watch...
I see this point has been addressed earlier in the thread, but I have to ask: Am I the only DM who is finding it a bit hard on the players that the only way from B8 and onwards/upwards is through the garbage chute? Or am I missing something here?
To explain further:
My players reached B8 in our last session, and at that point I had to just hold my hands up and say "I'm actually not sure how it's intended for you to move on from here."
After reading through the adventure once more, and looking at the maps, it's my opinion that the secret trapdoor feels completely random from an "adventure" / "how are the player's going to figure this out"-point of view. One thing is that the DC is fairly high, but I suspect I'll just have to hint that there is a secret door there.
Also - I'm trying to imagine why the efreets would build a palace where the substantial dwellings on the lower level and level 1 would only be accessible through the garbage chute. For one thing: How did they bring all those treasures to/from the hazneh? The slaves would have to be able to fly in order to access the chute :).
My group just started this module. We have 6 adults who have a hard time coordinating schedules, so I think we're entering year 3 or 4 of this AP.
And after all that, I'm expecting a TPK in the Hazneh. I've had to extrapolate and make some rulings on the spot as to what happened, and as a result, I forgot the lava port when you go through a door-3. Which is fine, as I feel that's a capriciously cruel punishment. The 10d6 is really enough. They don't need a "&*!# you for trying" tacked onto that.
However, they've just triggered the 4th set of Brass Men attacking them, and the only one who's relatively unscathed is the rogue. Evasion and Spring Attack. The fighter and ranger are both near death, the Dawnflower Dervish (the only healer) is running low on heals, and after they figured out 4-2-1 pattern, only 2 of the people went through a 4 door to look at the dock. Seeing the plinth, they're sure that something must be placed on it. So they came back in to tell the party about it.
Since it's hard to do this otherwise, I had to rule that once you go out to the dock through the 4, you reset the pattern, so you come through the 4, then the next door you go through has to be a 2.
So after 2 people went out the 4 and came back, those same two went into the 2 door from 1a and found the brass lamp. They're sure this is what goes on the plinth. Then the rest of the party followed into the 2 door, triggering the Brass Men. One of them then went backwards through the 2 to get away from the 4 Brass Men they were fighting, triggering the damage from the fire curtain and 4 more Brass Men. And the two who had gone through the 2 curtain thought they were safe from that curtain, so they also went back through it, taking the damage again.
So, in addition to taking all the 10d6 fire/untyped damage from the curtains they all went through, they're now facing about 10 fire from each Brass Man's breath weapon, hitting on average 2 characters per strike. They took 1 Brass Man down in the first round, but I think the other 7 are really the end of this party.
The only possible way to save this game is that I let them keep the Scroll of Kakishon at the end of the last module. They could take refuge in Kakishon to heal and recover, since there's no timer on this trap. I was hoping to give Ezer the time to talk to them and help them solve it, but they're running room to room before I can reasonably introduce him.
Does it sound like I did any of this wrong? I would hate to TPK on my own misunderstanding of the puzzle. They said their plan is to run through the curtains to place the lamp on the plinth. Running through the 4 is going to burn the people who went 4-2-2, but should be safe for everyone else, since they'll be starting the pattern correctly. Should the Brass Men follow to the dock or do they stay within the Hazneh?
I'll follow up to tell you how this goes, but it really stands as a good example of what not to do when you're placed in a trap and presented with a riddle.
Bump for a last chance for advice before this Sunday's game. In particular the brass men and an opinion on if I interpreted the puzzle right.
|
I think you are doing it right; your group needs to stop trying random things that are making the situation worse.
Some thoughts:
- Make Kakishon burn. Don't let that become an option for them.
- They've been tortured long enough. Let them make Wisdom checks to realize everything that is going on, what doors they should enter, and what they shouldn't do. Their characters would have figured it out by now even if they haven't as players.
- Keep the brass men set in each room (can't go between rooms). You may want to reset them after it has been long enough (I can't remember if the module says this should happen or not).
- Let the dock be a "refuge" from the brass men. Though, if they start abusing it, you could make a wandering monster encounter come through the magma sewer there (azer raiding party, pyrohydra, whatever).
- Don't forget, also, that being on the dock has to be really, really hot. It will be near impossible to rest there without protection from elements.
They are about to find out that they are trapped yet again, don't make the highly effective, yet obnoxious treasure chambers super painful on them. Also, you can't handle a TPK in here because there is pretty much no way to save the storyline afterwards. I would make things as challenging as possible in Bayt Al-Bazan while fudging enough rolls to prevent a complete TPK (go more into story mode rather than rule-abiding GM mode).
Once they are out of the annoying treasure area, remember that many of the factions would happily take prisoners instead of completely wiping out the newly arrived mortals.
Feel free to trudge around through the LoF PbP in my campaign tab for ideas. I just took over a group stuck in Bayt Al-Bazan. The previous GM did make a character go splash for trying out door #3, but luckily other party members were on the dock to notice it. I think they actually managed to cast feather fall on him before he hit the lava river.
Good Luck!
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wait, the brass are only supposed to appear if they enter a room other than through using a curtain of fire. Why are they on their 4th set of brass men?
I think the only time this should trigger on them is when they pop out of Kakishon and if they decide to teleport down here directly while exploring the citadel (you could also argue that using something like dimension door, even in the same room, should trigger this as well).
Feel free to trudge around through the LoF PbP in my campaign tab for ideas. I just took over a group stuck in Bayt Al-Bazan. The previous GM did make a character go splash for trying out door #3, but luckily other party members were on the dock to notice it. I think they actually managed to cast feather fall on him before he hit the lava river.
That amuses me, because I envision it giving the player a much much longer time to look forward to falling into the lava.
Wait, the brass are only supposed to appear if they enter a room other than through using a curtain of fire. Why are they on their 4th set of brass men?
OK, I had to reread it just now. I read through it about a billion times, and I always interpreted that sentence to mean any time they use any way other than the CORRECT fire curtain, the brass men would appear. But reading it now, it seems obvious that it means any means that skips the curtain entirely.
Well then. My poor reading comprehension skills may doom the party. I thought it was a particularly deadly set of rooms. Of course, the proper reading also turns that death-trap into something that would be hard-pressed to really threaten anything that would be sneaking into an Efreet's treasure rooms...
|
|
Yeah, I completely agree. Jhavhul and his predecessors should have done better, especially since there is a lava tunnel that lead directly to one of the rooms. All sorts of things, including other efreet, had easy access to these rooms if they chose to navigate the lava sewers.
Realistically, these rooms should be trapped with Cone of Cold spells (and Constructs wielding frost weapons) against anyone who does something wrong within them.
You should be fine. Just encourage them to find a safe place to rest (e.g., the dock, or as you mentioned give them one last chance to enter Kakishon before the proteans destroy it - or the scroll itself is destroyed).
|
|
As another side note, I highly recommend reading these threads before starting any book of any AP. There are always a lot of great ideas.
In this case, quite a few people already made a better way for the lava curtain puzzle to work out. There is some other good stuff regarding the encounters and also the reason each faction exists in this thread too.
Astonishingly, they lived. I might have held back 10 points of damage overall, but that was the only fudging I did. Since it was my mis-reading, after all, that nearly doomed them. I did tell them that I pulled the auto-kill for door 3. I also had to arbitrate on the fly whether or not they had to start over at 4 if they screwed up a sequence. I decided if they went 4-2-2, they could avoid damage by going through a 1 next, resuming the sequence in the proper order. I also ruled that going out the 4 door onto the platform, or the 4-door into the hallway in the south-west end, ALWAYS reset the sequence. I also decided, as suggested, that the brass men would not follow out of the maze. That gave them time to rest up on the platform, going through 90% of a wand of cure moderate wounds, and coming back in to face the brass men they'd left behind, which, in the party's absence, were randomly placed in the 8 rooms after the party took a breather.
So, they also surprised me, by nearly completely ignoring the reflected image of Ezer. I got to drop the conversation about them being in the trap and needing the Impossible Eye, but they never asked him any more about the plinth or the lava river. And they eventually found their way to the southern exit of the trap, so they may never go back in the hazneh. They found the harp and the arrows, but never tried to mess with the flame other than lighting a torch off of it.
Thanks for the pointers, and for pointing out my misreading.
With Ezer, I would drop drop random riddles with whatever they are struggling with and not make it a conversation.
Also, if they go back to the hazneh, don't forget that they can figure out that they can just step through one door to any other room they want by visualizing the animal icon for the room .
Hopefully they still find Shazathared since she can be a big source for plot and backstory and lore.
With Ezer, I would drop drop random riddles with whatever they are struggling with and not make it a conversation.
Also, if they go back to the hazneh, don't forget that they can figure out that they can just step through one door to any other room they want by visualizing the animal icon for the room .
Hopefully they still find Shazathared since she can be a big source for plot and backstory and lore.
Yeah, I'm not sure how they were supposed to figure out the animal glyph thing, so I had Ezer tell them "Think of the lizard." With a gentle nudge, they got it right, and used that again later. They had a brief conversation with him on the boat platform, but then rushed back into the maze and out the other side.
Well, I just realized they'll have to come back through, so we'll see if they remember how it works.
I highly recommend adding an encounter on the barge (though probably not the first time they use it). There is a lot of environmental stuff in play (lava river, moving ship - surprise for anyone who decides to fly, fast approaching curtain of lava, etc.) that made it pretty exciting.
Quick story for my group:
- The group freed Vezz from the apis and immediately charmed monster on him. After questioning him they just left him alone in the minaret room.
- Vezz became free of the charm and I staged a fight on the ship since it seemed too good to pass up
- Unfortunately, an efreet cannot take very many cone of cold spells, nor Tempest weilding paladins, and we only went a couple of rounds
If I weren't trying to reach closure with Vezz., I would have probably put a magma dragon or magma ooze down here.
Looks good. I need to try a PBP game one of these years.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here are some modifications I made to two of the named fire giants. I wanted to give them a little more flair than as written up.
Borzen, Master Smith CR 12
XP 19,200
Male fire giant expert 5 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 148)
LE Large humanoid (fire, giant)
Init -1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +14
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 8, flat-footed 24 (+8 armor, -1 Dex, +8 natural, -1 size)
hp 225 (20d8+125)
Fort +16, Ref +5, Will +13
Defensive Abilities rock catching; Immune fire
Weaknesses vulnerable to cold
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 flaming warhammer +25/+20/+15 (2d6+16/×3 plus 1d6 fire plus 1d6 fire) or 2 slams +18 (1d8+5)
Ranged rock +8 (1d8+15 plus 1d6 fire)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks heated rock, rock throwing (120 feet)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 31, Dex 9, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +14; CMB +25 (+27 overrun, +27 sunder); CMD 34 (36 vs. overrun, 36 vs. sunder)
Feats Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatsword), Power Attack, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Focus (warhammer)
Skills Appraise +6, Bluff +7, Climb +14, Craft ((armor)) +12, Craft (blacksmith) +7, Craft (carpentry) +4, Craft (weapons) +12, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (local) +7, Perception +14, Sense Motive +10
Languages Common, Giant
Other Gear half-plate, +1 flaming warhammer, artisan's tools, artisan's tools, masterwork artisan's tools, masterwork artisan's tools, masterwork artisan's tools
--------------------
Tarthar, Master of Hounds CR 11
XP 12,800
Male advanced fire giant (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 148, 288)
LE Large humanoid (fire, giant)
Init +1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +21
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 9, flat-footed 28 (+9 armor, +10 natural, -1 size)
hp 180 (15d8+105)
Fort +16, Ref +6, Will +11
Defensive Abilities fortification 25%, rock catching; Immune fire
Weaknesses vulnerable to cold
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +2 scorpion whip +21/+16/+11 (1d6+20) or 2 slams +14 (1d8+9)
Ranged rock +7 (1d8+18 plus 1d6 fire)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks heated rock, rock throwing (120 feet)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 35, Dex 13, Con 25, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 14
Base Atk +11; CMB +21 (+23 overrun, +23 sunder); CMD 35 (37 vs. overrun, 37 vs. sunder)
Feats Cleave, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip), Great Cleave, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatsword), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Skills Climb +17, Craft (Enter Choice) +13, Handle Animal +20, Heal +11, Intimidate +13, Perception +21, Survival +8
Languages Common, Giant, Ignan, Infernal
Other Gear +1 light fortification half-plate, +2 scorpion whip[UC]
--------------------
Attesh, Fire Giant Warpriest CR 14
XP 38,400
Male fire giant warpriest of Ymeri 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 60, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 148)
LE Large humanoid (fire, giant)
Init -1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +14
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 25, touch 8, flat-footed 25 (+9 armor, -1 Dex, +8 natural, -1 size)
hp 244 (19d8+118)
Fort +18, Ref +5, Will +13
Defensive Abilities rock catching; Immune fire
Weaknesses vulnerable to cold
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft. (30 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 greatsword +21/+16/+11 (3d6+28/17-20) or 2 slams +14 (1d8+13)
Ranged rock +9 (1d8+15 plus 1d6 fire)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks blessings 5/day, channel negative energy 2/day (DC 13, 1d6), fervor 4/day (1d6), heated rock, rock throwing (120 feet), sacred weapon (+1 1d6, 4 rounds/day)
Warpriest Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +6)
2nd—ironskin, resist energy
1st—divine favor, infernal healing[ISWG], protection from chaos, sanctuary (DC 13)
0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, mending, purify food and drink (DC 12)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 31, Dex 9, Con 21, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 10
Base Atk +14; CMB +21 (+23 overrun, +23 sunder); CMD 34 (36 vs. overrun, 36 vs. sunder)
Feats Cleave, Combat Casting, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (greatsword), Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Martial Weapon Proficiency (greatsword), Power Attack, Toughness, Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Focus (rock)
Skills Climb +18, Craft (Weapons) +8, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +14, Spellcraft +6
Languages Common, Giant
SQ blessings (fire: armor of flame, fire strike, war: battle lust, war mind)
Other Gear +1 agile half-plate[APG], +1 greatsword, ring of sustenance, belt pouch, diamond (worth 1,000 gp)
--------------------
One of the bigger changes I made was to include fire giant glaives and strongarms from monster codex as some variety, which worked well to provide more of a challenge than the standard fire giant.
I ended up having a big battle with about 80% of all the fire giants and Argbadh in the outer courtyard area after the PCs had previously killed the two at the Apis and merely left their bodies there to be found. The Paladin and Argbadh argued while fighting after nearly 10 rounds of combat, and between the Diplomacy result and their combat prowess as a whole, the combat ended with Argbadh commanding the giants to stand down.
I played Argbadh as LN and wanted nothing more than to be free from Bayt Al-Bazan, which is something he recognizes that this group could actually accomplish. Argbadh was super fun to run in combat, and I am now a huge fan of Awesome Blow / Improved Awesome Blow. I also buffed him a little as well.
Argbadh Karambagya CR 12
XP 19,200
Bronze giant fighter 2
N Huge humanoid (giant)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +22
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 10, flat-footed 26 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +14 natural, -2 size)
hp 258 (18 HD; 16d8+2d10+110)
Fort +19, Ref +9, Will +10 (+1 vs. fear)
Defensive Abilities rock catching; DR 10/—; Resist fire 20
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 50 ft.
Melee +1 keen longsword +25/+20/+15 (3d6+19/17-20) or
2 slams +19 (2d6+12) or +3 keen longsword +27/+22/+17 (3d6+21/17-20) (potion of Greater Magic Weapon +2)
Ranged sling +14 (1d8+12)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks rock throwing (140 feet), sardonic laugh
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 35, Dex 15, Con 23, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 14
Base Atk +14; CMB +28 (+30 awesome blow, +30 bull rush); CMD 40 (42 vs. awesome blow, 42 vs. bull rush)
Feats Alertness, Awesome Blow, Awesome Charge, Cleave, Improved Awesome Blow[ACG], Improved Bull Rush, Improved Iron Will, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Martial Weapon Proficiency (longsword), Power Attack
Skills Acrobatics +2 (+10 to jump), Climb +16, Craft (blacksmith) +8, Intimidate +20, Perception +22, Sense Motive +7, Survival +7
Languages Common, Giant
Other Gear +1 keen longsword, sling, sling bullets (10), belt of physical perfection +2, boots of striding and springing, bracers of armor +4, Potion Greater Magic Weapon (+2)
--------------------
|
Question, on the curse that surrounds Bayt al-Bazan.
Considering the one-way nature of the curse, what happens to summoned creatures at the end of the "Summon..." spell's duration?
More to the point, what is to prevent players from summoning many creatures, that can not leave until the curse is lifted?
...unless that is the ironic rub? At the spells end, the caster now loses command of the creature summoned?
I have to agree with this one. (even though it was posted several years ago) It does seem like the summoned creature should reappear 1d4 rounds after the spell ends. I wasn't really happy with the response that was made to this post... it seems like an opportunity to talk a bit more about how magic works... and make things a bit more 3 dimensional rather than brushing over it. This does speak a bit to the nature of summoning and how EXACTLY does it work.
What if the summoning kept trying to pull the creature back to it's home plane... so after the summons ends... 1d4 rounds later it reappears, then immediately disappears, then 1d4 rounds later it reappears.. then disappears... and so forth. When the curse is eventually broken.. these creatures are at last released back to their point of origin... in the meantime.. they are trapped in a near constant state of planar travel.
|
|
The explanation of Summoning in beginning of The End of Eternity (where they are talking about what does and doesn't work and why) talks about summoned creatures being created out of the primordial ooze... which tends to imply that the creatures aren't creatures at all.. and that when the spell ends they just simply end... which is another way to go with the whole thing.
I'm not sure if there is a definitive explanation of summoning... and this would be a much more serious thing for a Summmoner's Eidolon. Fortunately I don't have to deal with that in my campaign.. I just have a Wizard with a conjuring focus. So.. it seems like my options are to just disintegrate the summoned creature at the end of the spell (because it never really existed) or have it locked in perpetual re-summoning (which seems like it would be pretty cool).
There is quite a difference between the two though. Kakishon is a demiplane just randomly existing somewhere in the ethereal (or was it Astral?), and the curse of Bayt Al-Bazan is not quite fully explained. It is hinted that the curse creates a citadel that is merely a mirror image, basically trapping those who enter on the other side of that mirror.
We are in Bayt Al-bazan now, but fortunately no one has summoned anything. I would be tempted strongly into just letting it function like normal for three main reasons (mostly #s 2 & 3):
(1) The players have been screwed over enough at this point
(2) Memrach can summon other divs. If you let them stay permanently then Memrach should have his own army of divs even at 40% change once per day. The PCs can't survive this.
(3) Similarly Bassadoum can summon too. He would have an even greater army of creatures as long as he's been there in charge.
Some tweaks to summoning, though, could make things more interesting. Some ideas are:
- GM chooses actual creature that appears, should be something from Ethereal plane (represents tie to ethereal)
- Creature only lasts 1d4 rounds when summoned, represents weak link to normal world
- Creatures can only be summoned from within the palace - there are plenty of options if you assume that various creatures have been trapped throughout time (plane of fire native creatures and Bayt al-bazan wandering monster list is pretty good) - can be random or a spellcraft check to let players determine the appropriate new creature list
If you do let summon creatures stay under the curse, then the caster should not have control once the duration expires. The summoned creatures will handle the news of their imprisonment in various ways according to their nature.
Another good reason not to let them stay as the PCs will have their own army as well after a time.
Here is another idea that I am fond of, make all conjuration(summoning) spells cast as if they were cast using shadow conjuration.
The idea would be that the curse blocks true summoning from occurring, but it does provide for a 'quasi-real image' to be created within the curse. This, I think, is probably the best of all worlds for the story, GM, and PCs.
|
|
I kinda liked the idea that the summoned critters were trapped in the palace too, but basically used the same sort of process that would happen if you teleported or jumped out... you leave and then 1d4 rounds later you return... over and over again... and since the summoning is 'over' it immediately sends returning critters 'home' again.. so they never have any future impact for the players.. other than being 'ghosts' trapped in the palace... like they are... bringing home the curse in a cool magic way.
Other ways of handling it are likely ok too... but... this one seems like it would be sorta concrete to the players.. that 'spot' where ever that critter teleported home from.. would semi-constantly have a summoned monster reappearing in it. Very difficult for the players to use that to their advantage... and 'interesting' magically.
|
|
Actually... if summons did leave 'ghosts' of flicking creatures... the NPCs that had cast summons previously might have left a few around.... which would also be kinda cool. The creature would only be there long enough to see it before it poofed away again... then 1d4 rounds later...
...*poof* *poof*...
1 round passes
1 round passes
1 round passes
...*poof* *poof*...
1 round passes
...*poof* *poof*...
1 round passes
1 round passes
...*poof* *poof*...
... and so forth
You just have to be careful with someone like Memrach. Once realizing this, he would have no real reason not to further protect himself with many disappearing/reappearing divs.
It does seem like a fun idea for sure. It could certainly break up the monotany of the place.
|
|
I think I can handle that by making the 'reappearance' very brief... so that it's just a flicker each time the creature reappears.
Is there really any definitive info as to where summoned creatures come from? The question of 'real' or 'fabricated' is kinda a big deal.. story wise.. as well as the ethical ramifications of summoning in general if you are summoning 'real' creatures just for the express purpose of dying. Good summoners might be bothered by that.
|
|
A question about A1 - the boxed text says the "arched passageways are obscured by curtains of orange fire". Does the fire totally obscure what the PCs can see beyond the fire - or can they perceive there are rooms beyond? When there's a dead end wall, can they see through the fire to ascertain it's a dead end - or do they need to walk into it the fire to figure that out?
I would say the "obscured" part implies totally obscured. Otherwise, it is much less of a puzzle.
If you are preparing this room, I would definitely look at some of the modifications that others have suggested throughout this thread (and remember they only get brass men if they try to move about without stepping through doors :).
My group's party ran into Bagoas (the darnoc in area D18), and I came across a small problem.
In one of the last sentences in the paragraph before his stat block, it says that he rejuvenates after 2d6 minutes. However, in his stat block, his rejuvenate ability says he returns after 2d6 rounds.
Any idea which is correct? Going back to look at the darnoc's stat block in its original source (Tome of Horrors Revised) does no good, as the rejuvenate ability is not a standard darnoc ability; it is unique to Bagoas.
(This is not a situation where I need an answer soon...my party met the conditions needed to put him to rest, so he's not coming back. But the OCD in me need to know.)
===
Taffer
That's my bad, Effigy. For some reason I totally left the description for that room out of my original draft. However, it should be empty of treasure, and I think a lion sounds good. Sorry about that.
And thanks for the comments. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
Answered above: Lion
I highly highly recommend easing through the posts in this thread . There are a lot of excellent discussion and ideas an lessons learned.
|
|
just wanted to throw my contribution out here too for ideas.
I replaced the encounters in the harem area of level D with haunts that told the story of the Marid raid, resulting transformation of the imam to a black djinn, and his subsequent slaughter of everyone in the harem. It worked really well to bring the story out for the players.
I left one jinn ghul in the room who didn’t quite give into her transformation and desperately wants to live again. With a party that didn’t immediately attack and a moderate diplomacy , they are friendly and have promised to return with a resurrection (which I am overruling the 10 year constraint due to time not passing under the curse) or wish from Shazz (which they have been saving).
This citadel can be such a slog (especially in pbp - they are on year 3 of just being in the citadel) and anywhere the outcome can be something other than, “kill everything in the room”, is a good change of pace .
If you are interested , you can read how it went here
|
|
My group's party ran into Bagoas (the darnoc in area D18), and I came across a small problem.
In one of the last sentences in the paragraph before his stat block, it says that he rejuvenates after 2d6 minutes. However, in his stat block, his rejuvenate ability says he returns after 2d6 rounds.
Any idea which is correct? Going back to look at the darnoc's stat block in its original source (Tome of Horrors Revised) does no good, as the rejuvenate ability is not a standard darnoc ability; it is unique to Bagoas.
(This is not a situation where I need an answer soon...my party met the conditions needed to put him to rest, so he's not coming back. But the OCD in me need to know.)
===
Taffer
Whether minutes or rounds, this looked annoying enough to me that I changed it to 1 day. Even with hints about it being “his palace “ , they had no reason to think about the deed (and some parties may not even have it).
Also this encounter was a 1 round speed bump for our party and I had no desire to run it every few minutes or rounds. Next time it even happens I am going to just have bagoas randomly attack 1 person and before being killed and just describe the fight.
It was a fun encounter to work through the first time but if the party didn’t pick up on the clue then it would get repetitive and frustrating real fast.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
After defeating Bagoas twice and witnessing him reform, the party fled. That night they discussed possible solutions.
The wise Cleric - "I think his link to this world has something to do with the deed. I think if we show it to him, it will convince him that he is no master of the castle and it will weaken him enough to destroy him."
The genius Wizard - "I think showing him the deed will just incite him to own it, solidifying his hold on this realm. I think we should destroy it in front of him to show that his dream of ruling can never come true."
The worldly Bard - "If we destroy it, we won't be able to use it later if that tactic fails. I think we should give it to him so his unresolved issue of not being the true owner is no longer valid. That should weaken him enough to defeat him permanently."
The strong Fighter - "Everything has a breaking point. I think if we (*player rolls a d20*) defeat him 14 times his energy will no longer be able to restore him."
The apathetic Rogue - "One of you is right. (*player rolls a d4*). I say we beat him 12 more times and go from there."
|
Ok, I don't math well, so the riddle about how to find the correct sequence of fire curtains to go through is boggling my mind. I have no idea how to explain or GM how characters are supposed to figure out the 4, 2, 1 sequence. Yes, I get half and three times, etc. but no idea how it works. Anyone simplify this? Feel free to post a link to a thread if this has already been covered. Thanks.
Ok, I don't math well, so the riddle about how to find the correct sequence of fire curtains to go through is boggling my mind. I have no idea how to explain or GM how characters are supposed to figure out the 4, 2, 1 sequence. Yes, I get half and three times, etc. but no idea how it works. Anyone simplify this? Feel free to post a link to a thread if this has already been covered. Thanks.
Hi there,
I'm DMing this adventure and I decided to replace the 4-2-1 thing entirely. I replaced it with a puzzle of my own. My players played through it last week and they really enjoyed it!In my version, the animal carvings on the ceiling and the ability to teleport between rooms is removed. If a player uses Dimension Door or otherwise enters one of the rooms in the Hazneh in another way than through the walls of fire, the Brass Men spawn as normal.
The walls of fire are colored, and each of them is a separate layer of a Prismatic Wall. The PCs need to go through them in order, from red to violet. If one enters a colored wall that follows the one he previously went through in sequence, he goes through unharmed (you may start over from violet to red). Otherwise, it suffers the effect of the layer, as per the spell. I devised the colors so that even if one screws up and goes through the wrong wall, there is always a "valid" exit to the room. The violet layer, instead of Plane Shifting the victim, sends it to a random room determined by a D6. From 1-5, it sends the PC to one of the five rooms with no red exit (which means they are forced to go through a dangerous wall). On a 6, it teleports the victim into the magma vortex, as described in the adventure for going through a number 3 door.
Final note : if you go through a "dead end", it loops back to the opposite side. For example, going through the cyan wall in A1f makes you exit through the orange wall in A1g. Going through the indigo wall in A1h makes you exit through the violet wall in the same room. Going through the red wall in A1d makes you exit through the orange wall in the same room.
I designed the layout so that there is a valid path from A2 to A5, and another valid path back. Going through the right sequence both ways allows you to visit every room.
Here's a picture of my map :
https://imgur.com/a/FD1wyS2
That seems like the intended result. Thing to remember is that this vault was intended to be used by people accessing it through the red curtain from A2 into A1a, who would then proceed:
A1a-A1e (orange), A1e-A1f (yellow), A1f-A1g (green), A1g-A1h (cyan), A1h-A1h (blue), then A1h-A5 (violet).
Assuming they didn't want to be stuck in the A5-B6 dead end (or after they explored it), they would start again:
A5-A1h (red), A1h-A1b (orange), A1b-A1c (yellow), A1c-A1d (green), A1d-A1b (cyan), A1b-A1a (blue), and finally A1a-A2 (violet).
If you start from A1a, you are stuck taking damage passing through doors or provoking the brass men by teleporting until you can get to a room with a red door, but once you find a red door you can safely follow the color sequence to choose the right doors out. It is possible to have just an awful time, if you go say a1a-a1g-a1f-a1e or a1a-a1b-a1c-a1d, but then you are in a room with a red door and you can safely get out (although you will have taken damage etc from three prismatic wall effects up to this point)...
I have to say, this is both a much easier sequence to remember (mostly because it involves no math for the mathematically challenged) and appears to have been assembled correctly, which (due to what looks like either an editing error, confusing directions, or some combination of both) the original puzzle does not appear to have been. At the very least, the original clue is...not helpful to PCs, although it would clearly be a useful reminder to those who basically already knew how the treasury doors worked.
Hilariously, you have a 1/4 chance to just accidentally choose the right door from the get-go, exiting immediately into A2 if they choose the 4 door. From the comments on this thread, I am guessing that few make that choice correctly by accident. Additionally, if your party doesn't work out the animal-teleport key function of the flame curtains, those dead ends are just useless at best and misleading at worst.
However, this prismatic wall variant does not sufficiently send the message to prepare for fire damage, but many of the early encounters once the PCs get upstairs to C will clue them in if their first contact with the azers or fire elementals doesn't.
For the record, I gamed out how the color door sequences work. As long as your party isn't foolish enough to backtrack into a room they just exited, they should always be able to follow the color sequence out once they find a red door.
Starting from A1a: into A1b, then a1c, then a1e or a1d. Following the color code from a1d gets you to a2. Following the color code from a1e puts you on the ‘intended’ path and thus gets you out.
Starting from A1a: into A1g, then A1h. Following the color code from A1h gets you out.
Starting from A1a: into A1g, then A1f, then A1e. Following the color code from a1e puts you on the ‘intended’ path and gets you out.
Starting from A1a: into A1e. You can then go back into A1a via a red door, then follow the ‘intended’ path out, going back through the door you just came from from a1a to a1e because it’s orange on this side and going on the ‘intended’ path from there.
Starting from A1a: toward A2. Dumps you in either a1b, a1c, a1a, a1f, or a1g. You have to go through a door that hurts you, but you can then proceed from one of the above.