PFS#10 Blood at Dralkard Manor [Spoilers]


GM Discussion

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Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

That is awesome feedback, man. I must first throw some praise to my wife. While I designed the map and the manse is shaped according to my design, it's actually Tabby who does the final artwork on my maps to make then 'submittable' to a cartographer. So, without her, the fantastic Rob Lazzaretti might have given you a slightly different map, though it would have been awesome.

The song remains the same, though, I'm good at maps in my head, but not on paper.

As for the instakill encounters:

Spoiler:

The assassin vine is a creature of its CR, so it can be dangerous to first level adventurers, but it's also easy to kill. For true beginner parties, where it's clearly going to knock one guy out (or kill him) and then die, well..I suppose I have learned my lesson. I keep thinking the vast majority of parties are going to be 2nd or 3rd level, with a few rookies sprinkled in. I need to make an encounter exciting for everyone who might play and not frighten off a market "Don't by that one until we're Epic...Helt wrote it." When I chose the assassin vine, I was substituting for a monster I was asked to remove, which was similarly hard on beginner parties, but likely to die instead of roll out a TPK. I was trying to keep the same kind of encounter. That way you can tell your players where my head was.

As for the lightning bolt, we've heard a lot about that one. Without having run the adventure in its current form, I guess I'm not the guy to respond to that.

I am stoked that your friends enjoyed the story - it's a big departure from the original version, and so most of the credit for that revision goes to Mr. Frost. His primary objective might have been saving the children, but in the end it looks like folks are enjoying the final version of the adventure a great deal.

Thanks again for the input!

Steve

The Exchange 5/5

I don't know why I didn't notice this earlier, but the chronicle for this scenario is entitled "Blood OF Dralkard Manor". I don't know if it was worth bringing up, but I was just printing off some copies for the next game and I noticed this. Being OCD and nit-picky I couldn't help but tell someone ;). Plus, the PFS messageboards have been so stagnant lately. I can't wait for #11 & #12 to be released.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I'd like to add my name to the chorus of people stating that this adventure was waaaay too tough for tier 1-2.

I had to severely nerf the Rale and assassin vine encounters to make them survivable for my party, which consisted of the following:

Halfling monk 4
Human paladin 2
Human barbarian 1
Gnome sorcerer 2 (or 3, not sure)

I think that because of the greater negative implications of killing a Pathfinder Society character (mentioned elsewhere in greater detail) creating good game balance is even more important for these scenarios.

I don't mind running adventures with the occasional APL +3 or +4 encounter, but then it should be very clear to the players that their objective does not necessarily include defeating these opponents. After all, this is still D&D and not Call of Cthulu, where your first reaction is always to run away from a creature (at least it was when I played).

What would my solutions be?

  • Rale encounter: Make him third or, at most, fourth level. Given his superior tactical position on the second floor, this would increase his CR by 1 anyway, in my opinion. My players had not found the stairs on the top floor when he attacked, so they had no way to get to him immediately, which gave Rale a big advantage
  • Assassin vine:Change it to an archer bush (from Tome of Horrors) or similar CR 1 or CR 2 plant creature.

I know those aren't particularly innovative ideas, but there you go.

BrOp

Scarab Sages 1/5

Just played this last night as a round zero for an upcoming gameday. In general, I enjoyed the mod, but it is overpowered. That's already been discussed so I'll leave it be.

However, there is a technical problem that I plan to change for our gameday. Specifically, one of the already tough critters is advanced incorrectly.

Spoiler:

The assassin vine was advanced to 12 HD, which should make it, technically, a CR 6 creature. But if you give it the "what should the CR really be" test, I believe it should be a CR 7 creature. +17 to attack, improved grab, and a grapple of +19 are far better than a CR 6 shambling mound. And, as the stats are written, that grapple should be +27 (BAB +9, Str +10, Size +8).

There are some other minor mistakes in the stat block, most in the vine's favor, but the real mistake is that someone forgot that increasing the size from Large to Huge also bumps the CR by 1. So, for CR 5, it should be an 8 HD critter, not 12 HD. It's still a tough CR 5 critter when advanced properly, but it's far more reasonable.

Here are the stats I intend to use:

ASSASSIN VINE, ADVANCED CR 5
N Huge plant
Init -1; Senses Blindsight 30 ft., low-light vision; Listen +1, Spot +1
AC 16, touch 7, flat-footed 16
(-2 size, -1 Dex, +9 natural)
hp 76 (8 HD)
Immune electricity, plant immunities
Resist cold 10, fire 10
Fort +11, Ref +1, Will +3
Speed 5 ft. (1 square)
Melee slam +13 (1d8+13)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft. (30 ft. with vine)
Base Atk +6; Grp +23
Atk Options improved grab
Special Actions constrict (1d8+13), entangle
Abilities Str 29, Dex 8, Con 20, Int —, Wis 13, Cha 9
SQ camouflage, plant traits
Blindsight (Ex) Assassin vines have no visual organs but can ascertain all foes within 30 feet using sound, scent, and vibration.
Camouflage (Ex) Since an assassin vine looks like a normal plant when at rest, it takes a DC 20 Spot check to notice it before it attacks. Anyone with ranks in Survival or Knowledge (nature) can use one of those skills instead of Spot to notice the plant. Dwarves can use stonecunning to notice the subterranean version.
Constrict (Ex) An assassin vine deals 1d8+13 points of damage with a successful grapple check.
Entangle (Su) An assassin vine can animate plants within 30 feet of itself as a free action (Ref DC 13 partial). The effect lasts until the vine dies or decides to end it (also a free action). The save DC is Wisdom-based. The ability is otherwise similar to entangle (caster level 4th).
Improved Grab (Ex) To use this ability, an assassin vine must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Hope others can find this useful.

Tom

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Whoah.

spoiler:

Spoiler:
I'm sorry for any of you who are dispoointed with the math for the assassin vine. I just looked up our submitted version, and the advanced vine definitely was a CR 5 with 8 HD. Looking at the altered version, I see 4 HD were added, which would keep its size at Huge, but raise its CR to 6. Doubling them for the added tier would make it a CR 8 encounter. I note also the vine's Dex was altered from 9 to 10, missing the penalty for growing in size (I added the 8 HD ability bump to Dex to make it a non-issue), so there's an extra point of AC the beast shouldn't have against the middle tier. If it helps any, I'd alter the abilities to deny it bonuses in combat. So the CR 5 version would lose a point of AC, 4 HD, and drop to a 28 STR (or some combination that makes the stats accurate and the encounter dangerous but not as brutal). I'd consider using the 12 HD version for the next tier, or go ahead and use the 'double wide' version if your party is pretty strong.

I do want to advise all DMs tot ake a look at the PFS GM guide so they feel comfortable with making alterarions with the adventure, or so that they decide against it as the document leads them. We're empowered to manage the game experience for the players, but to be fair to players the world over, that experience should be managed consistently.

This is definitely an educational experience for me. Not only am I seeing encounter design played out on this forum, but between this and the open calls, I am learning a lot about how to express my vision for a scenario so my original version might be better received, which means fewer revisions and therefore fewer opporunities for incorrect stat blocks and such.

For sure, we can all see what a little bit of violence towards children can do to an adventure!

1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Doug,

** spoiler omitted **

Joshua, I've seen a lot of advice on how to make the encounters less lethal, so I'm going to pass on that part other than to say that I agree that both the wizard and the assassin vine encounters are hugely problematic with the tactics as written.

I haven't seen a good way to address the lack of clarity in faction missions. I found the way they are structured in this scenario particularly surprising considering the similar issues from the Hydra's Fang. I would have thought there would be better guard against this going forward.

I have been trying to deal with this at my tables by reminding the players that their characters are Pathfinders first and agents of their factions second, but the lack of clarity in faction missions like this definitely makes the job harder and promotes PVP. And responding to Doug by laying the blame back on the judge for allowing PVP is a cop out. No one wants the judge playing the scenario writer, so why blame the judge?

Because most mods have made it easy and because the PA rewards provide significant character benefits, it is important that this be clear. As an alternative, de-emphasizing them in the second year of the campaign might be considered.

I purchased this mod but have serious reservations about running it, both due to the (unnecessarily) lethal nature - I don't expect to have to make significant changes before I can run a mod - but more importantly because I have a mix of factions at my home table that will cause problems. Why not issue a correction or clarification such as fixing the mission and handout?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Would it be possible to include details in the early stage of the adventure that might ward this problem? For example, a bit of detail that distinguishes, in the faction PC's mind, one handout from another?

That way, when the party discovers a clue they might discern that it doesn't match exactly and keep looking for a document that better meets their needs.

Wish I could be more help with this issue.

1/5

Steven T. Helt wrote:

Would it be possible to include details in the early stage of the adventure that might ward this problem? For example, a bit of detail that distinguishes, in the faction PC's mind, one handout from another?

That way, when the party discovers a clue they might discern that it doesn't match exactly and keep looking for a document that better meets their needs.

Wish I could be more help with this issue.

That's kind of what I was thinking Steven. An errata if not a change to the handout and faction statement itself. There is a mechanism for this sort of thing, it was used for an error in PFS#8 with the max gold figures (within 48 hours of my finding it and posting the note - I was impressed). Hopefully GMs are in the habit of looking here, but if they aren't, getting an email offering download of an updated PDF will fix the issue going forward and I'd suspect that there still are a lot of folks who haven't played this one.


For what it's worth, I have some recommendations for the Paizo crew:

1) Don't pit 1st or 2nd level PCs against wizards with 3rd level evocations. That ain't right.

2) Increase your word count to give more space for statblocks so you can tier adventures properly. A 3rd or 4th level wizard would have been better suited to the low tier.

3) Cut waaaay down on the background info, especially if you can't increase the word count. That page and a half could have been summarized in a couple of shortish paragraphs and still remained useful.

The opportunity cost of purple prose is balanced encounters.
-blarg

Scarab Sages 1/5

Constrict Damage (and other damage resulting from grappling)

This is obviously a case of continuous damage, so the constrict damage should be applied only after a full round of grappling, just before the next turn of the grappling creature.

If the grappled individual escapes, then there is no constrict damage.

Grappling creatures are much more balanced this way.

2/5

I ate and ran Blood at Dralkard Manor yesterday at Tier 1-2 for my regular group of Pathfinders.

It went reasonably well - no death but a few tense moments during the combats - and I believe a good time was had by all.

My 2 cents:

1) Yes, there is a possible conflict between the Andoran and the Cheliax faction goals as they are written in the scenario.

Spoiler:

"Creation of More Monsters" does not necessarily mean "Summoning".

The Andoran player found Handout #5 first, and asked the other faction in-character (*) NOT to inquire about it any further. Of course, out-of-character, the Handout got passed around (especially since we had 2 Andoran players), and the Cheliax player remarked that he too needed it. After a few o-o-c arguments back and forth, the Cheliax character conceded that the body of a vargouille would do the trick as well.

(*) We worked out a little "in-character code" when we want to signal to the other players that we need to do stuff or get stuff for our factions goals: all the player has to say is that it's "a matter of honor", and the other players get the message... <g>

1) Also, a "bump!" of a previous comment by NiTessine:

"" wrote:

The module mentions that the party receives (...)

Spoiler:

(...) a bonus on Charisma-based checks in Alvis and Augustana if they save Sheriff Eraltis. However, the actual size of the bonus is omitted, and it's not included on the Scenario Chronicle sheet.

Since me and my group of players will attend CanGames in May and most likely play "The Prince of Augustana" with its author, the distinguished Craig Shackleton (never hurts to kowtow to the DM... <g>), we would like to know if there is an answer to that discrepancy.

Worse comes to worse, I can put an hand-written note in the "Items Found During this Scenario" section of that Chronicle sheet next time I see them, but it's a kludge at best.

Lantern Lodge 4/5

You may find those bonuses defined in the follow-up adventure (haven't read it yet), not Dralkard Manor, because the exact bonus may depend on who you're dealing with, in fact dealing with the wrong person may suffer a penalty.

The Exchange 5/5

DarkWhite wrote:
You may find those bonuses defined in the follow-up adventure (haven't read it yet), not Dralkard Manor, because the exact bonus may depend on who you're dealing with, in fact dealing with the wrong person may suffer a penalty.

I think you are doing some wishful thinking DarkWhite. I'm not sure if you believe that The Prince of Augustana is the follow-up adventure, but if it is then you will be disappointed. I haven't seen any consequences or connections of substance between scenarios as of yet, and I've read & run everything released to date. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for GenCon & Season One.

Lantern Lodge 4/5

Doug Doug wrote:
I haven't seen any consequences or connections of substance between scenarios as of yet, and I've read & run everything released to date.

Grandmaster Torch made a re-appearance in #14 The Many Fortunes of Grandmaster Torch, though as I haven't read this one yet, I can't comment on whether or not this is a connection of any substance.

2/5

DarkWhite wrote:
You may find those bonuses defined in the follow-up adventure (haven't read it yet), not Dralkard Manor, because the exact bonus may depend on who you're dealing with, in fact dealing with the wrong person may suffer a penalty.

We had both those mechanisms in the Living Greyhawk campaign:

- Either the bonus was listed in the scenario itself (ex. "If you have played Son of the Creature of the Black Lagoon or Return of the Son of the Creature of the Black Lagoon, you get a +2 Diplomacy bonus with the Creature..") and its application was managed by the DM,

- Or the bonus was listed on the Adventure Record (the equivalent of the Chronicle Sheet) and could be used at will - but still subject to DM's approval as of its pertinence.

So far, I've seen one reference to a previous adventure in a PFS Scenario.

Spoiler:

In Stay of Execution: "It’s possible that some PCs may have the lost treatise, “The Inward Facing Circle” from Pathfinder Society Scenario #1: Silent Tide."

If the bonus listed in Blood at Dralkard is similar, it should not have been listed in *this* scenario, but in the *next* scenario, or at least be put in more ambiguous terms, like "You have done him a good one, he will remember that...".

The way it is written in the scenario,

Spoiler:

Saving Sheriff Eraltis from the cult earns the PCs a permanent bonus to all Charisma-based checks in Alvis and Augustana as word of their deed spreads.

I did fully expect it to show up on the Chronicle. Now, was it an oversight ? Was the bonus not expected to be given, but the text not updated accordingly ?

I don't really care (nor do I think my players do) one way or another, I just want to have a firm answer to give them...

Daniel Mayrand
==========================
former Living Greyhawk region administrator,
who edited his shared of mods,
and had his share of "oops, we goofed" moments... 8)

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Have yet to run this, but ran into my first complaint, and waiting till Sunday for an after action report I may forget.

Why did you chop up the manor map into so many pieces? In making my own handout pages (due to a previous gripe about handout placement), I'm spending 5 minutes to do a simple CnP.

My irritation knows some bounds, but not many this day.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Steven T. Helt wrote:
For sure, we can all see what a little bit of violence towards children can do to an adventure!

Make it awesome? No really, I must've missed this one.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Erm..unless the map has been changed since I printed my copy, I have one half-page map of the first floor of the manor, still very much as a originally drew it.Piano and furnishings in the same place. The only real ommission is the secret door under the spiral stair.

Pity, that. Good scene. But then that's where the violence towards children came in.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

If you ask me, the original story with the hints at the Dralkards being child abusers was great. Cohesive, dramatic, and all that. But then we learned we couldn't have that kind of content in a Paizo adventure, and had to quickly change much of the original story. We might roll out the original someday after we rework a lot of the content and make sure we're not stepping any toes.

But it's a great lesson to learn for any would-be writer. There is a degree of content you might or might not be able to include, and then there's a type of content you might not be able to include at all. It's too easy to point to Nick's hillbilly ogres as an example, so I'll point out the ingenious Swinomancer from Tim Hitchcock's Carnival of Tears. Sick and twisted, and gleefully so. Much more descriptive than our allusions to a history of child abuse, but you can have that content for evil fey. You can't make your DM read a section describing huddled children drying while their brother is punished - even if you don't describe the actual abuse itself.

So...we learned we have to shop grittier stuff elsewhere, and learn the balance of material, taste, and audience, so we can maybe write something else for Paizo soon.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Steven T. Helt wrote:
Erm..unless the map has been changed since I printed my copy...

I attempted to CnP it to a blank page for printing, and had to piece together 7 chunks (6 squares and 1 bottom 'bar'). Had to print a second handout page due to the amount of handouts.

I may end up using the half page as presented, but there was no way I was going to play scrapbook maker with the handouts.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Is it just me or can the adventure pretty much be concluded with fire?

"Haunted mansion? No thanks. Bilbo! Pass me the tankard of dwarven ale and a flask of alchemist's fire."


NotMousse wrote:

Is it just me or can the adventure pretty much be concluded with fire?

"Haunted mansion? No thanks. Bilbo! Pass me the tankard of dwarven ale and a flask of alchemist's fire."

It's not just you.

Lehmuska wrote:
we proceeded to loot the manor of anything valuable and torch it to the ground

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean

I believe the PCs are sent by a Venture Captain to check out the mansion that he is intending to live in when he retires from the Pathfinder Society. I doubt that burning it down would accomplish that.

2/5

Wintergreen wrote:
I believe the PCs are sent by a Venture Captain to check out the mansion that he is intending to live in when he retires from the Pathfinder Society. I doubt that burning it down would accomplish that.

Doesn't really matter, does it? Its just a mission objective, after all. Just report back "Uninhabitable. Vermin problems. Had to torch it. Sorry, mate. How about a nice cottage in the Chelaxian countryside instead?"

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Wintergreen wrote:
I believe the PCs are sent by a Venture Captain to check out the mansion that he is intending to live in when he retires from the Pathfinder Society. I doubt that burning it down would accomplish that.

Given the state of the manor, I think torching it would be the least expensive way to go about things. Certainly quicker than the monk wrecking crew I imagine in DnD demolition sites.

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean

The ground floor of the mansion is in quite good condition. Surely it would be more expensive to destroy that and build a new mansion.

But this does really refer to the issue of no effect of completing the actual pathfinder mission. What we need is Pathfinder prestige awards.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Wintergreen wrote:
The ground floor of the mansion is in quite good condition.

Not in the mod I read.

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean

NotMousse wrote:
Wintergreen wrote:
The ground floor of the mansion is in quite good condition.
Not in the mod I read.

I'm thinking about the basic framework and foundations. The walls are solid, support a ceiling and you have to enter through the front doors or windows so there are no large holes in them and the interior walls and furnishings are all fairly decent. Seems to be a 'fixer-upper' rather than demolition time.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Wintergreen wrote:
The walls are solid, support a ceiling and you have to enter through the front doors or windows so there are no large holes in them and the interior walls and furnishings are all fairly decent.

Even if the building fit that description (it doesn't, most of the interior it thrashed) it would still be condemned anywhere in the US due to the amount of fire damage.

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean

NotMousse wrote:
Wintergreen wrote:
The walls are solid, support a ceiling and you have to enter through the front doors or windows so there are no large holes in them and the interior walls and furnishings are all fairly decent.
Even if the building fit that description (it doesn't, most of the interior it thrashed) it would still be condemned anywhere in the US due to the amount of fire damage.

The interior rooms are described as full of cobwebs, some of the furnishings are rotten or dusty from disuse but apart from that it seems to be very intact - there's no real fire damage or structural damage described, just a couple of broken windows have let the elements in.

On page 5 it actually describes it as "the relatively intact ground floor." I read that as indicating the ground floor is pretty much intact and structurally sound.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Wintergreen wrote:
On page 5 it actually describes it as "the relatively intact ground floor." I read that as indicating the ground floor is pretty much intact and structurally sound.

The second floor, which is *gone* from fire damage would get a building condemned. The first floor has years of weather damage.

Furthermore 'relatively intact' doesn't mean much when the top floor is missing. Much like saying someone in a coma is in relatively good health when your comparing them to a corpse isn't a ringing endorsement for granite man.

The Exchange 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean

NotMousse wrote:
Wintergreen wrote:
On page 5 it actually describes it as "the relatively intact ground floor." I read that as indicating the ground floor is pretty much intact and structurally sound.

The second floor, which is *gone* from fire damage would get a building condemned. The first floor has years of weather damage.

Furthermore 'relatively intact' doesn't mean much when the top floor is missing. Much like saying someone in a coma is in relatively good health when your comparing them to a corpse isn't a ringing endorsement for granite man.

Of course YMMV and I'm not looking at it from the perspective of US legislation and health & safety, but I think you're taking it too far there. The ground floor is described as relatively intact from looking at the outside and internally it seems to be quite sturdy (structurally) even though it has been abandoned for some time. The destruction of the upper floor hasn't had any effect on the ground floor. Internal walls are still there, doors etc and major pieces of furniture.

Spoiler:
And some people have been living in the mansion too.

In the end, I see the mansion as being cheaper to repair than to demolish and rebuild, you think it is cheaper to demolish. Unfortunately, the scenario (like other PFS scenarios) doesn't have any comeback if the PCs fail to accomplish the mission they have been given so burning it down only matters from a roleplaying perspective.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Wintergreen wrote:
In the end, I see the mansion as being cheaper to repair than to demolish and rebuild, you think it is cheaper to demolish. Unfortunately, the scenario (like other PFS scenarios) doesn't have any comeback if the PCs fail to accomplish the mission they have been given so burning it down only matters from a roleplaying perspective.

We burned it down because we were so disgusted about the imbalanced encounter(s)!

Liberty's Edge 2/5

You don't care about the health and safety of a retiring venture captain?

And again, 'relatively intact' from what you see on the outside, which is half of a two story building, never a good sign.

Spoiler:
Torching the manse, even from the outset completes the mission by discovering the flaming cultists, and doesn't even sacrifice any PA if the pathfinders decide to search the husk of the manor. Niccum may prove problematic as no mansion is likely a clue something went wrong and he'll be prepped to battle.

Anywho, my after action report...

Spoiler:
Most players were level 1, but were graced by a level 4 ranger, which made things easier. They start off with extra potions (good idea), and make a bee line for the front door.

The 'haunting' at best amused, at worst caused me to ask what they were thinking. The piano was 'obviously a player piano' something not invented for at least 2 centuries of technology, and immediately broken. The mirror spooked out fighter into breaking it when his image broke out in boils and began to melt. The remainder of the group was quick to see for themselves, elves age unto ashes, Horc barb turning emaciated human, and the ranger in her forest bulldozed and paved for a strip mall populated by zombies (our FLGS is in a strip mall). Chess set got everyone playing, including suddenly Bobby Fisher barbarian and his Int 5 (corrected to 7 after game) beating Rale.

I misread the assassin vine, skipping the low teir one in my haste and using the mid tier. Thankfully the barbarian was the one force fed some grapes and fighter tripped the vine making it suddenly quite killable. Party then enjoyed brunch, including grilled salad with vinaigrette and a side of grapes.

Noticing *something* was wrong I dropped some HP off the vine like mentioned in this thread to modify it for higher tiers... Yes, I forgot to pick the right monster, but remembered to modify it; I didn't sleep much the night before. Incidentally I was running this along side another GM whom I told about the modification, dealing more damage from outside the mansion (outside the mod even) as any of his players did from within.

Barbarian goes Kool-Aid man on the vargouille room (Oh yeah!) partial charging one on the surprise round and downing it with minimum damage (7 with 2d6 weapon). Ranger drops second to 0 and barbarian finishes it before anyone else acts.

Rale was next, surprised by a stealthy wizard, and a clumsy sorcerer. Quickly overtaken even with displacement up, his familiar joined him from range. Rale is carried off at -6 by the barbarian.

Belya strikes directly after from the vargouille room, nailing fighter in the armored cod piece (rolled to confirm before I knew she missed). She is quickly tripped, shot, bitten, and ultimately pummeled to negatives by the barbarian who asked 'how much damage does an unconscious wizard do'. I answered d4 each. Rale died from minimum damage.

Niccum is ambushed, and doesn't live to see first round of combat.

Ran long, accidentally ran them against super swamp thing, and played with the illusions to everyone's delight.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

That does sound like a fun time, though

Spoiler:
you can't trip an assassin vine.

As for the piano, I hope it doesn't bother folks too much, but I don't bother with those kind of anachronisms. The piano fits into the genre well, and can be made to be very creepy. In an estate setting, I think the big grand piano is totally appropriate, regardless of when it was invented in the real world. The type of piano was certainly an intentional decision.

Plus, they're pretty!

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Steven T. Helt wrote:
As for the piano, I hope it doesn't bother folks too much, but I don't bother with those kind of anachronisms.

Their reasoning was that it was a *player* piano. One of those pianos that has a bit of music it's pre-programmed to play on it's own. So it couldn't be part of a haunting. Surprisingly no one questioned why it would start playing on it's own without any intervention.

Otherwise no one much cared that pianos are a little ahead of their time.

Spoiler:
The stat block listed a speed, so I let it get tripped.

Sovereign Court 4/5

NotMousse wrote:
Spoiler:
The stat block listed a speed, so I let it get tripped.

Spoiler:
So, wait, you would allow tripping a gelatinous cube just because it has a speed? Tripping has nothing to do with land speed, frankly. If the monster has no legs, for example, it cannot be tripped.
Liberty's Edge 2/5

Deussu wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Ah but the cube has no discernible anatomy, besides unless you can get it on it's edge, or point it's on it's primary mode of locomotion (it's sides).

The vine on the other hand is described with anatomy, and in it's MM entry is listed with no speed. Bringing reason to bear against these two facts I took it to mean that this vine has managed a method of locomotion which by having a discernible anatomy meant that it effectively had legs, which then could be taken out from under it.

Sovereign Court 4/5

NotMousse wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Hmm, legs or at least it could be imagined being somehow upside down. I get where you're going there. I guess it's all good then. Mainly I was just baffled if just having a speed was a base for tripping. Apparently it's not, and that's good.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Oh. a player piano. not a cantrip playing the piano.

never mind...I didn't notice that detail. Sorry.

Yeah...a vine doesn't have a discernable anatomy (and can't be sneak attacked). But I get what you're saying.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

just wanted to add some news
my friends just ran through this adventure, a few 2nd level and mostly 1st level characters.

Spoiler:
its a rough mod at the low tier the way the wizard is still 5, throwing a 5d6 lightning bolt at 2 or 3 1st level characters... its death. or worse, a 5d6 shocking grasp.. its just too powerful to have a CR 2 group face off against a CR 5 wizard. that amount of damage directed at any 1st level character is pure death. The GM realized this and ret-conned the wizard's actions, to try and take it a little easier on us. but the wizard should have been de-levelled for the low tiers, there's no reason he needs to be 5th level vs. a party of 1st level characters. at the higher tiers its fine and makes sense. he is an appropriate challenge.

The Exchange 5/5

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

oh, and i just wanted to ask if there'd been any resolution to the way spellbooks are treated in mods? the idea presented in dralkard manor is unnecessarily expensive considering the wizards already need to spend money to scribe the spell into their spellbook. isn't it possible to present it as scrolls for non wizards, and still allow a wizard to simply scribe it from the one book to the other, with the appropriate spellcraft check adjucated at the table by the GM?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I wish I could help you there. Our original submission used a sorcerer (though she was nothing like the NPCs in the last version), who therefpre had no spellbook. I just didn't want to give any spells away as treasure, cause I'm mean like that.

I don't know what the rules are for changing the adventure, including the tactics of the NPCs, and no one official has responded yet. But I guess the focus is for the whole table to have a good time. Though I haven't often had someone complain while I wiped out their party : }

Maybe it was the equality of the tpk that kept everyone happy. That's why I do it. I'm a giver.

The Exchange 5/5

You know, I wrote a review warning people not to play Dralkard Manor with 1st level PCs. Maybe there should be an electronic advisory sticker on the PDF? I have learned to make some adjustments to the scenario without changing tactics to give the players a fighting chance.

Spoiler:
I have the shocker lizard end the first round of its movement on the stairway landing and give the PCs a spot & listen to see it and react before it runs up and delivers the shocking grasp. Usually when I describe an angry, sizzling shocker lizard everyone knows they need to unload on it or run the #&@% away. I grant a cover bonus to the saving throw from the lightning bolt which comes through the ceiling. I try to stress to the players to be extrememly cautious as much as I can without giving anything away.

My last table was so paranoid they climbed the walls from the outside of the house into the ruined second floor and triggered the acts almost in reverse sequence.

The Exchange 1/5 RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Buncha things:

  • The assassin vine was too lethal, especially considering that you have to fight a CR 5 Rogue, a CR 5 Illusionist, a buncha mooks, and vargouilles all in the same day, as well as the boss coming back in the morning. I ended up softballing it for my group, which didn't matter that much since they figured out that if one person's grappled, they can all rush in and whackitysmack it to Hell.

  • Speaking of the vargouilles, you do realize that, for someone to be affected by their shriek, they have to both hear and see them?

  • The bosses are a bit lethal for first levels, though I understand that most of the reason is because the illusionist's "haunts" wouldn't work correctly if he were lower level. I would've made this mod accessible only to higher tiered characters.

  • The notes should've been better placed, such as deeper into the manor, or at least not right underneath a missive objective.

  • As said earlier, the Cheliax and Andoran objectives conflict; the recommended handout the Cheliaxans were to get didn't fit the objective, though grabbing a vargouille head worked (not only did most of the party play Mists of Mwangi, but they had plenty of Planes knowledge). It's also unclear as to whether or not the Andorans were to keep the suicide note secret.

  • In the mod, there was a sidebar that mentioned the difficulty of doing spellbooks. I would suggest following Living Greyhawk's lead, where they just say that you get access to the spellbook, and they list what spells are on it. If you want, I can email a copy of one of my ARs to give you an example.

  • Archivist mentioned this a month or two back, but in the end of the mod it mentions that saving the Sheriff gives the party a permanent bonus to CHA checks in that particular part of Andoran, but it's not reflected anywhere in the AR. I ended up writing on each character's AR that they saved the Sheriff, in case it ever came up again.

Overall, though, my group had a good time playing. They got a little fooled by some of the illusions, but once the detect magic and detect evil came out, the haunting goose was cooked.

Scarab Sages 3/5

Okay, now that we've run this adventure and I've had a chance to peruse it, I've got a question.

1. It says in Beyla's treasure stats that she has an elixir of hiding (used), but her hide is only +11. With a Dex of 14, and no armor/encumbrance issues, it's obvious that her skills weren't updated to the +21 they should be.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I wish I were more able to answer some of these questions, but it does sound like folks are adapting well on their own.

It's true the assassin vine is easier to handle once one of your party gets grappled. Hard on that party member, though, suffering a quarter of the hits. I think I'd rule that if it's 2 size categories larger, there's no chance of hitting your friend.

If that makes me look like a kind, benevolent DM, then I take it all back.

The Exchange 5/5

Steven T. Helt wrote:

I wish I were more able to answer some of these questions, but it does sound like folks are adapting well on their own.

It's true the assassin vine is easier to handle once one of your party gets grappled. Hard on that party member, though, suffering a quarter of the hits. I think I'd rule that if it's 2 size categories larger, there's no chance of hitting your friend.

If that makes me look like a kind, benevolent DM, then I take it all back.

As far as I can tell, the rules for grappling have now changed. No longer do the grappling creatures occupy the same square, which eliminates the risk of hitting an ally when firing into a grapple. I preferred it the old way, but this will make things easier on the victim and alleviate player guilt when the victim is mistakenly peppered. I will miss the encounters where the grappled victim, knowing what will happen next round, is screaming for the archers to shoot despite the risks.

4/5

Doug Miles wrote:

Joshua wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

In my defense:
** spoiler omitted **

You are right that as the GM I should have stepped in and explained the alternatives to the Cheliax player before he went through with the theft. I also play Living Arcanis where PVP is second nature to most players. I knew everyone at the table and although lethal damage was dealt the players knew how far they could push it and weren't going to kill each other over a PA point. It does come down to the GM explaining to the players out-of-character that there's an alternative to the problem. I'm interested to find...

As the player of the PVP initiator. (for the record I only took damage, not dealt it) I was running this mod yesterday. When the Andoran player and Chelaxian player eagerly snatched each others faction missions at the table i ran i halted play and made them trade. The faction assignments are worded in such a way that reasonable people will end up grabbing each others assignments as those seem to better suit what they are looking for. A playtest would have caught this i think.

I must say that in every other way i loved this mod. It has a good feel to it. Running it yesterday

Spoiler:
I took care NOT to blast into my level 1 party with the lightning bolt. Instead i carefully chose my mini to look spectral and cast displacement. When they fired and got a miss do to a miss chance they were ready to run from the "ghost". After the piano playing and the spooky chessboard it was an easy sell. They had not fought the rogue downstairs yet so i reasoned his goal was still just to frighten them off. Only when they entered into melee after jumping over a flaming sphere to get at him did i have the shocker lizard deliver the shocking grasp. A near fatality later they ganged up and defeated him... Barely.

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