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I know no-one (except the playtesters) have ran through this scenario, but I have a question that I would like answering before I purchase it. Perhaps Mr. Helt/ancientsensei could shed some light. ;)
A member of our group said in an email, "...while #10 looks to have potential for more of Michal's Cthulhu-D&D-crossover-weirdness".
Basically, is this true as I have a reputation to uphold? :)
(No spoilers yet please!)
Cheers! :D
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Without giving anything away, the adventure certainly has the potential for an eerie supernatural investigative vibe. It includes eerie details, the feeling that something isn't quite right, and at least one macabre, unexpected combat.
I would say for the right DM there's definitely room for that Scooby gang and/or Cthuhlu feel. I know during the early stages of design we were really proud of its deceptiveness and the whole plot spooked my wife.
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Thank you for your reply! now I'll be bagseying this adventure to run on my group. Though personally, I think I'd rather go for the Cthulhu feel (without the tentacles!) than the Scooby feel!! :)
Cheers! :D
Director of Brand Strategy
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Now that I know that one o f the "new" writers of this scenario is on the boards, can I ask you mr sensei, to add a brief bio to your PathfinderWiki entry? You can even email it to me at this screenname at pathfinderwiki.com and I'll add it. I look forward to adding your name to many future pathfinder related wiki articles.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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I'll send that up as soon as I get home, friend.
And you can certainly choose between Scooby and Cthuhlu when you prepare the adventure. I certainly like to quell the jokes and good times with a hefty dose of horror and some player death! All of which is available in Dralkard Manor.
Yessiree..it's got action, horror, romance, AND graphic violence.
Area 8 contains smurfs. Lots of them. Go there and wait patiently for them. They'll arrive eventually.
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OK, I’m going to get this GM Discussion page back on track, God-smurf it! I don’t know if I’m the first GM to run this scenario, but I think I’m the first to post on it. First of all some background on the table I ran tonight: I had five players at the table, coincidentally one belonging to each faction. I won’t bore you with the details of the party composition, but they were heavy on muscle and light on brains.
The scenario seemed pretty straight-forward but I felt the PCs missed a lot of the background information because there wasn’t a Gather Information, Knowledge (Local) or (History) to dig deeper into the woes of Dralkard Manor. In Mists of Mwangi there was a helpful breakdown of info that I made into handouts based on how well individuals did on their checks. That would have been helpful here. Obviously the GM can ad lib the information supplied in the scenario into tidbits for the PCs, but it’s nice when the author does the work for us so we GMs don’t feel like we’re giving too much away.
I didn’t see if there was a DC or anything to spot the cracks in the ceiling that Rale used to spy on the PCs. It seems like there should have been a spot check, but no one complained because they never said they were looking up or studying the ceiling. One of the clerics was using the deathwatch spell to determine that the haunting were non-spiritual, but he never directed the spell upwards so he never detected Rale above him.
The assassin vine encounter could have been real nasty for a 1st level party. The first PC to open the kitchen door got slammed for max damage and then lost the grapple and got constricted again for max damage. In the surprise round he took 26 HP of damage, but fortunately he was 2nd level and wasn’t instantly killed. As the GM I wasn’t sure how many HP he had, but I was glad it was a barbarian who opened the door and not a rogue.
Beyla the rogue was pitiful in the fight (e.g. the GM’s dice were rolling pitifully) and the PCs used non-lethal damage to knock her out so they could question her later. The scenario assumes the PCs kill Beyla, so I was lazy and decided that it must appear to Rale that she was slain. Rale’s tactics state that he casts lightning bolt on the PC who killed her, but he stays on the second floor to remain concealed. After I read this again I have to assume that Rale casts the lightning bolt directly down through the ceiling above the PC who killed his love interest. In the description of the spell, it suggests that the spell could be employed in this manner but it would also set fire to combustibles. I know that the authors are constrained by a page count limit, but this is a very lethal encounter for Tier 1-2 and greater clarification would be helpful.
Anyways, I fudged the encounter to give the party a better chance of survival by having Rale come downstairs to initiate the fight. I knocked out three of the five PCs in the first round with the lightning bolt and almost finished them with the shocker lizard. In retrospect using the lightning bolt on a single target from above may have been more sporting than hitting three PCs with it, but a nasty GM could really ruin a party’s day if they ran this encounter intelligently, using the total cover of the second floor until the PCs figured out what was going on.
Following that fight they had to expend all available healing (including experimenting with unidentified potions of CLW) just to get the three PCs conscious. The other two decided they would finish looking around by themselves (barbarians are slow learners) and went to the study where the vargouilles were trapped. The text says the creatures begin to shriek as soon as someone tried to force open the door. What kind of save would be needed against a vargouille’s shriek if it was through a wooden door? I gave the PCs a +5 circumstance modifier (and one still managed to fail) but essentially by the time they got the door open they had become immune to the effect for 24 hours. Vargouilles are terrifying in appearance but pitiful in a fight. I do want to give a tip of the hat to interior artist Kevin Crossley. His illustration of a vargouille is fantastic and puts the Monster Manual picture to shame.
OK, this is my last and most important item for GM discussion. Remember how I mentioned that there was a member of each faction at my table? Joshua, you and the other authors had to know that the Andoran and the Cheliax faction missions were in conflict. I don’t mind this; I’m not complaining. I don’t play with teenagers or prima donnas who have hissy fits if they don’t have their way. I would like to see Pathfinder Society get a little more PVP, but I also appreciate the need to moderate the eruptions of idiot behavior that can ruin the game for innocent players. I think that GMs should be given the option based on the maturity at the table to set PCs against each other. But in this instance both players believed that the suicide note was the key to their faction mission success. An altercation happened when the Cheliax PC attempted to steal the note from the Andoran PC’s backpack while he was asleep. The Cheliax PC swiped the note but the Andoran woke up in the process. The Cheliax PC attempted to simply run away, content to leave the rest of the party to finish the scenario. But the Andoran had an animal companion wolf which he sent after the Cheliax. The wolf was not trained for non-lethal combat, and the Cheliax had 2 HP left from the last combat. Fortunately the wolf could not hit the broad side of a barn and the Cheliax, rather than give up the fight instead spent a full round action to eat the note and told the Andoran player “If I can’t get my PA point then you won’t either”. Not to be left out, the Taldan PC slung a stone at the Cheliax and knocked him out for stealing from another party member. We worked it out in the end and everyone agreed the conflict was fun. I reflected that Joshua might not have been happy with me for allowing PVP to go down, but if people were enjoying themselves then where was the harm?
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Well, I am glad to hear the events were resolved and everyone had a good time. Before I respond in more detail, I am going to consult the final details of the scenario. I feel like I can really only respond to the parts I wrote, because I know I wouldn't want someone to deprive me of the chance to explain my favorite little section of the adventure.
I will tell you this:
Assassin vines can be tough depending on party make-up. My original design was to have the vine be outside the kitchen and pull its first victim through the window. The combat has a chance to start more slowly, because the PC would get a cover bonus to AC, but the party is penalized for slow reaction by having one of their own dragged outside to be killed. Also, The adventure was scaled for the third tier after we wrote it and that required some changes tactically. Likely the fight would have been too easy for a third tier without some changes, and even harder on the first tier.
These two encounters were points of pride in my original turnover. I am grateful for the feedback, and I'll be sure to ask myself about encounter strength scaled to tier, and potential changes to combat dynamics (like your wooden door) in the future. Maybe one of the other authors can get you a faster response on the
When I was reading through this scenario I was wondering about the following:
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When I was reading through this scenario I was wondering about the following:
** spoiler omitted **
Spoiler:The fire was contained to the second floor of the home because of the storm the night of the incident. The second floor was burned out and later collapsed inward but the rainstorm doused the blaze before it caused damage to the first floor. You will need to make your own map of the second floor because it does come into play in the scenario. You should also describe the water damage to the home after 20 odd years of exposure to the elements. The authors were limited by the page count and probably would have gone into more detail if they could, but as things are a lot is left up to you the GM to detail. Back to your question though. The reason the vargouilles survived the fire was because the fire didn't reach the room they were imprisoned in. They also don't need sustenance because they are outsiders, I would reason.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Great response. Thanks!
So, yeah, I think describing the water damage can give the manse a creepier feel. And while outsiders can eat, they don't need to to survive.
I definitely favor the more lethal, eerie feel than the Scooby feel, but both have their place, and we tried to make this an adventure that works for both crowds. Hope everyone agrees!
Doug,
The Cheliax player either needs Handout #2 or a vargouille body for their faction mission. The Andoran player needs Handout #5. These are not in conflict.
Your Cheliax player made a choice to steal from the Andoran player rather than RP the ownership of the note. I'm disappointed, yes, that you allowed PVP since the rules explicitly say "no PVP," but since no one died, no harm no foul.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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I want to point out here that the potential for PvP conflicts exists at every table. Even among friends, a bad day at work can have PCs saying things about another PC's mother.
To this end, the PFS guides offer suggestions on how to handle PvP situations, specifically to avoid them and remind the players who's boss.
They might try the old line "It's what my character would do!", but you have to remind them that this is more like acting on tv than it is pretending to be an actual barbarian. Players just have to let things go so the show can go on.
As DMs for this organization, we have a lot of power to prevent these conflicts, even fudging the story a bit to make sure the focus is on the adventure and a good time, and not on preventing someone from getting prestige.
This isn't a commentary on the OP - it's noted that the players overall had a good time and I am sure it's to his credit. Just remember, you can help the characters find solutions to conflict that the players aren't looking for.
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Joshua wrote:
Your Cheliax player made a choice to steal from the Andoran player rather than RP the ownership of the note. I'm disappointed, yes, that you allowed PVP since the rules explicitly say "no PVP," but since no one died, no harm no foul.
In my defense:
On the same token the Andoran player is led to believe in his faction handout that the suicide note is sensitive material and shouldn't be shared with the others. After the dispute began I stopped play and I let an uninvolved party read both of their mission orders, and she agreed that the suicide note appeared to be the proof that both factions needed.
You are right that as the GM I should have stepped in and explained the alternatives to the Cheliax player before he went through with the theft. I also play Living Arcanis where PVP is second nature to most players. I knew everyone at the table and although lethal damage was dealt the players knew how far they could push it and weren't going to kill each other over a PA point. It does come down to the GM explaining to the players out-of-character that there's an alternative to the problem. I'm interested to find out if my experience is isolated or not.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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I am certain it isn't. Every GM has that couple of players or characters that are one dispute away from a throw-down. It's a cost of doing business. Sometimes it's a fun rivalry and folks are mature enough to flirt with "not getting along" for story's sake, but other times they aren't.
Hopefully, this discussion will help prepare future GMs of Dralkard Manor. You're on the vanguard, Doug!
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Well Mr Steven T. Helt, welcome to the ranks of "I used to go by a cool alias, but I upgraded to a contributor tag."
Oh how I long for that day, when my last name gets added to my board name =p (when you have a first name like Coridan, it's easy to use as an alias ;) )
Our group just played through this scenario tonight on the Tier 3-4 level. Our only beef was the huge assassin vines didn't really seem like they could fit in the kitchen, so we had them taking up the outside wall as well. It was rather easy to 'kite them' with their slow speed, eventually forcing us to fast forward to their death.
I'm not a big fan of assassin vines or vargouilles, and I'm surprised they're showing up with some regularity considering their obscurity (vargs being in PFS5 and an assassin vine being an important part of the PFS19 open call).
The lots of handouts were nice, although I was kind of hoping for a genuine haunting going on, or at least a "house on haunted hill" feel which is what it started out feeling like, but didn't really continue the whole adventure. The vines in particular were really out of place and broke the mood, though I don't think that's your fault sensei.
I look forward to more from you :)
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Thanks for your feedback!
It is funny about some of the recurring elements in different PFS scenarios. Maybe it's just that great minds think alike, as I didn't know anything about the PFS scenarios I didn't run at Gen Con, and really still don't. I can tell you we were asked to edit a few things that bore similarities to adventures we hadn't seen before, but I think that might be expected of the first few events in a weird way. Hopefully, that will pass as some of us get a better feel for Golarion and the Pathfinder Society, and as the stable of Paizo monsters we can use increases!
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I'm running this for the second time on Thursday and I like to improve each time I run a scenario. I want to point out an error that I made the first time that I ran it:
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RPG Superstar 2013
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That's good info, because it'll help other gms who are preparing the adventure.
So, if you're running Dralkard Manor at a convention or local event - or any PFS adventure, for that matter - don't forget to drop by and check out reviews and comments from earlier gms. Could save you time and answer a dilemma!
I'm afraid I have to agree with Doug. I'm prepping this scenario for a group that will abandon a faction mission at the merest hint of conflict, and the Andoran and Chelaxian missions are worded seemingly to encourage PvP.
Handout #2, the supposed goal for the Chelaxians, reads as follows:
Meeting Notes:
*Sneak back into Alvis and observe the movements of Sheriff Eraltis
*Acquire wicker, string, and blankets
*The haunting is going well
*Locals too close-step up kidnappings
*On track for the creation of more monsters
*How to cage one
*Once we have Eraltis on (tomorrow's date) morning, Alvis will be ours
The faction mission asks the Chelaxian character to acquire proof of a successful summoning.
'creation' of more monsters implies constructs more than summoning (not that the cultists are doing any summoning anyways), and 'how to cage one' is so vague that it could mean anything.
I don't see how anyone could assume that this would properly fulfill the requirements. Handout #5, however, specifically mentions the summoning and that it was a success.
As the Andoran mission requires you to find and KEEP all proof that Algrim's excesses lead him to ruin, they clearly require Handout #5 as well, since it blatantly states the above. It is also possible that an Andoran character may believe that the evidence of the headless corpses should be removed.
I'm either going to rewrite the Chelaxian faction mission, or simply tell my player that his character is currently holding his faction mission requirement.
My proposed rewrite:
Her Majestrix's Most Loyal Servant,
...
Bring me any proof..Removed
I wish to know the status of this summoned being; if the summoning was successful, discover what the creature has been up to and if anyone has taken an interest in it. Infernal beings, like infernal pleasures, should be the sole domain of Cheliax... and those who serve her.
So, we played this tonight at tier 1 . . .
As we walked towards the back door, the surrounding plantlife sprung to life and entangled half the party. A tentacle slithered out the window and dragged the paladin indoors. The entangle kept our melee-based fighters from the entrance to the kitchen, and the vine received nasty cover and firing-into-melee buffs against ranged attacks through the broken window. Several rounds later, the paladin was almost dead, the conjurer had used up all of her non-zero-level spells, and the diviner was similarly tapped out. The cleric, who had been entangled out of line-of-sight for the entire battle, used most of his healing on the paladin, and we decided that we had used so many resources that we had better go check out the village.
After a bunch of time spent finding out about the manor (and about the sheriff whose house had apparently been invaded and fireballed) we realized we had reached the end of the slot and decided to call it a night.
We ended up with no treasure or faction rewards, but at least nobody died. To be fair, we did start late, and we roleplayed a lot of banter, so we could probably have gotten more done if we had had been more task-oriented.
We also probably deserved the beatdown we got for being vandals . . . that's a fair cop ;).
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Okay...to be honest...that game sounds like fun to me. If you're in an ongoing campaign with your PFS characters, running through all or many of the adventures, the occasional "bad day at the office" has always been really entertaining for me. Maybe I choose to look at it like the comical episode of a tv series - like the best X Files were always the funny ones where nothing really gets accomplaished.
I will say that you experienced that encounter much like I envisioned it in the first rewrite, only I thought it would happen on the inside of the house. : }
I was under the impression that the play-at-home scenarios weren't under the same time constraints as the 'play in a convention slot' scenarios. Am I wrong? If not, no reason your team can't try again. Josh?
I do hope you guys had fun. I know it might be warped to enjoy an adventure where things just don't go your way and you have to regroup, but sometimes I think that's really funny. We're right there in out Deadlands campaign right now, where I, a Texas Ranger have somehow ended up wanted in every state in the Confederacy.
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Coincidentally I ran this scenario again last night (Tier 1-2) and it went much better this time, funny how good a teacher experience is... I didn’t even need to have the scenario open in front of me but for the combats (toot, toot!). I use index cards for initiative order and I had my players pre-roll 10 listen checks, then randomly chose the ones I would use...
Later, the party started towards the stairs to go up to the 2nd floor and the rogue struck. Belya never lasts very long, but she’s kind of a trigger for Rale’s Revenge anyways. Again, a 1st level barbarian was the one to drop her and this time I ran the encounter how I believe it was written. I had Rale cast the 5d6 lightning bolt through the ceiling directly above the barbarian PC who dropped his girlfriend. The barbarian failed his Reflex save (twice, he used a shirt) and would have taken 20HP damage, but I subtracted 5HP for the hardness of the ceiling (not mentioned in the scenario). No one realized the barbarian was still injured from the previous fight and the lightning bolt dropped him to -5HP. I dropped another PC with a max damage roll off a flaming sphere. The fight was getting desperate but the PCs pulled through in the end.
The assassin vine and the surprise lightning bolt are real nasty encounters, and atypical of previous Pathfinder Society scenarios. I don’t think they should be removed, but I encourage any GM who is preparing to run this to give his players every opportunity to react and prepare before rolling the dice. These two encounters will probably kill any PC if the target is 1st level.
If you are a GM who is uncomfortable killing PCs (as I tend to be—but I have done it in PFS) then think ahead of time about how to mitigate the encounter or stack the deck in the party’s favor. I think it’s ok to make the players sweat, but you shouldn’t pull the punch after the dice are rolled.
Okay...to be honest...that game sounds like fun to me. If you're in an ongoing campaign with your PFS characters, running through all or many of the adventures, the occasional "bad day at the office" has always been really entertaining for me. Maybe I choose to look at it like the comical episode of a tv series - like the best X Files were always the funny ones where nothing really gets accomplished.
I will say that you experienced that encounter much like I envisioned it in the first rewrite, only I thought it would happen on the inside of the house. : }
I want to make clear that we had a lot of fun failing spectacularly, and probably would have gone back if less obligated to finish on time (by things like work the next morning ;)). We spent much of the slot planning, in character, how to approach the house, and then roleplaying once we got to town later on. The one combat we did took a while, as there were a large number of summons involved, and people were playing slow and careful to try to keep the paladin alive.
I played this one tonight. Our experience differs somewhat from the norm, so I feel I should explain what happened before I state my complaints.
After taking her out, a shocker lizard came out of nowhere and dropped an electric shock that would have killed anyone in our party except our 3rd level ranger. He was at full hit points before taking damage and at -5 after. Not cool. Definately not cool, considering we were playing at tier 1-2. At this point playing became less about roleplaying and more about making use of every dirty trick I knew to keep our party alive through the scenario.
After the shocker lizard had delivered it's shock, we had to deal with the wizard on the 2nd floor, who would have taken out at least three of us had our DM not taken pity on us by not using lightning bolt as the wizard's opening spell.
One softballed (but still quite lethal) combat later, some of us were seriously considering burning down the manor and ending the scenario altogether. After a while everyone's feelings had cooled down enough to actually get on with the scenario.
While going around the manor, we had a special strategy. My heavy warhorse went first wherever we went. We even joked that if the horse couldn't go someplace, we'd break down the walls for it before continuing our exploration.
We eventually scouted the manor, found vargouilles (recognizable by their sound, most or all of us had played mists of mwangi before, so we were familiar with the creatures.), who we didn't fight, but rather used them to become immune to their shriek and then left them alone.
We also found a kitchen filled with plants, which we immediately left alone. We had found enough handouts to expect an encounter from a returning kidnapper, so we didn't want to be weakened from a fight.
Then we made a plan for how to take out the last kidnapper. We let the vargouilles free when the kidnappers arrived, so they'd attack them. This plan was partially succesful, for vargouilles made both kidnappers waste their first actions on them, which made the kidnappers easy pickings for us in turn.
Now that everything was under control and there was no time limit left, we rested up and spammed the kitchen full of summons until the monster in there was defeated. After this was done, we proceeded to loot the manor of anything valuable and torch it to the ground. Just in case. Venting our frustrations had absolutely nothing to do with it. Nothing at all. Honestly.
A special mention goes to player handout 2 and 5. Handout 2 speaks only of making more creatures. Here's how I figured it would work:
1) Find victims.
2) Dump victims with vargouilles.
3) Wait for vargouilles to transform victims into new vargouilles.
4) Profit.
See, no summoning of anything involved. Not related to summoning then. Not summoning related -> not chelaxian faction quest related.
The handout 5 however, speaks plainly of summoning.
Speaks of summoning -> is related to faction quest.
In fact, I took the handout 5 until the end of the game where I heard that it was, in fact, not related to my faction quest but Andoran faction quest. At that point our Andoran Pathfinder got the note.
And now to the problems I had with this scenario:
Second, the 5th (or is it 6th?) level wizard who is supposed to mess around with characters to creep them out enough to leave. Why does he have to be able to cast 3rd level spells? What do the spells add to the character, except a warning tag that says "not suitable for 1st level adventurers"? From what I experienced, he would have been fine as a 3rd level wizard. In fact, if he was a 3rd level wizard this adventure would be playable with a 1st level party.
Also, if the wizard had to be able to cast 3rd level spells, why was this adventure written for tier 1-2 in the first place? Tier 1-2 scenarios should assume a party of 4 1st level characters can survive the scenario. Dropping instakill spells is detrimental for this purpose.
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With the spoiler tag already in the topic title, I won't bother with clicky spoilers.
I ran this module tonight. We had fun, and the core concept of the module is very good, but there were several issues that would need to be addressed.
1) The module is too tough at Tier 1-2. Yeah, I know it says as much, but it's still a poor excuse. A Tier 1-2 module should be playable by a group of four beginning 1st-level characters, or it is very difficult to justify running it for new players at a convention. Four 1st-level characters would get utterly murdered in this. Hell, Little Blue one-shotted the 3rd-level ranger from full health to -5 with that shocking grasp (The average damage for a 5th-level shocking grasp is around 20. If you run the numbers, it'll kill most 1st-level and many 2nd-level characters outright and drop most 3rd-level characters.). A lightning bolt following up with that would've taken out half the party.
I ruled that the XP loss from the familiar's death took Rale down to 4th level, where he should have been written originally. There's really no reason for him to be at 5th level, and I recommend the encounter be adjusted so Rale is 4th-level and when Little Blue dies, he drops to 3rd.
Another issue is the assassin vine, which, depending on how the party approaches the matter, can be either an autokill or a very boring encounter when they keep their distance and kite it across the grounds with ranged weapons until it croaks. Our team solved the issue by chucking summoned monsters and arrows at it from the outside and I just fast-forwarded it.
2) The module mentions that the party receives a bonus on Charisma-based checks in Alvis and Augustana if they save Sheriff Eraltis. However, the actual size of the bonus is omitted, and it's not included on the Scenario Chronicle sheet. Same thing applies to Venture-Captain Savarre's invitation, really.
3) The interplay of the Andoren and Chelaxian faction missions is a bit odd. I don't mind the potential for intra-party conflict, since it usuallly leads to good gaming, but the Chelaxian mission is a bit strange, for reasons mentioned by Lehmuska above.
Overall, though, if the lethality were toned down, the module would be excellent. The "haunting" and the backstory unfolding through the handouts have great potential in atmosphere-building, especially when supported with a bit of background music (I'm thinking a theremin, and an off-key piano), and I like how Niccum was handled, with his depleted spell reserves.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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lots
An off-key piano, you say? Why didn't I think of that!
Of course, the other two authors aren't saying much about the scenario, but I will say I am glad folks are having a pretty good time.
As far as some of the comments, go:
I'm not bashful, and I appreciate everyone's candor. As I have said before, I am only comfortable commenting on parts of the adventure I designed, so criticisms of the assassine vine encounter fall mostly on me. The design was for a CR 3 vine outside the house to terrorize the party and drag one lucky pathfinder outside through the window. I thought it was creepy, but not too lethal. I promise to swear off assassin vines for the near future, especially since I didn't get the Skeleton Moon gig.
Hey - no one has commented yet. Are the chess sets creepy
I am unaware of any crazy woman encounters that ought to occur outside the manse. Maybe the DM was just trying to get things back n track?
Is Rale 5th level for the bottom tier? It seems he was changed a lot from the second version. 5d6 (17.5 points of damage) does seem like a tough way to start an encounter. Even though the ceiling/floor wouldn't really apply any hardness to the spell, I understand ablating some of that damage at the start of the fight.
It is awesome to learn how a designed encounter affects several different playgroups. Somethings are easy for one party and problematic for others. It's also cool to see how different DMs approach the same dilemma. To be sure, I go over these comments and reread them again to bear them in mind for later. Thanks again!
And where's my obituary?
And where's my obituary?
RIP: AncientSensei: an awesome screen name, who lives on in our hearts, and on the Sinister Adventures boards. He leaves behind Steven Helt, who, while not ancient, is a teacher to us all as he weathers the loss of a noble handle.
Is that what you meant?
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Steven, I’m happy that you are so responsive and willing to accept criticism/abuse from the ‘users’. I appreciate the access that Paizo grants the players to talk to the campaign admin and contributors. It’s really great that you are listening and honestly I think if I were to choose between meatgrinder fights and cupcake fights, I’d have to say...
I’m sorry to say that no one responded much to the chessboard, or any of the other ‘hauntings’. It’s not that the concept was lame, just that the players are hardened to those kind of effects and none of us can avoid metagaming and knowing exactly what is happening. The game mechanics for illusions make it hard to use them to make creepy encounters. The typical reaction from a player after I describe them seeing the chess piece move by itself is “And then what happens?”.
Rale is indeed 5th level for the bottom tier. That makes it an APL + 4 EL encounter for a table of 1st level PCs. I think his tactics are a bit unclear, but throwing a 5d6 lightning bolt at 1st level PCs is almost unheard of. Either GMs have to ‘adjust’ the encounter or they will run it as written and blame the author(s) when the players become outraged. There should be a consolation prize for a 1st level PC who survives a lightning bolt. Maybe a favor should be added to the Chronicle just for the PC who receives “Rale’s Revenge”, perhaps a bonus to the next 3 reflex saves vs electricity attacks…
Spoiler:I am unaware of any crazy woman encounters that ought to occur outside the manse. Maybe the DM was just trying to get things back n track?
I think that would be Belya.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Well, sure. But it seemed like she was encountered outside, and there was no connection to the adventure. That's the impression I got from the post, indicating the players might have gotten off track or followed a distraction and the DM was bringing them back to the adventure.
Hey, it happens. :}
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*ahem* NiTessine was the DM of the said adventure. I, Lehmuska, and Navdi are three of the players who played it. All of us have our grudges with this scenario. Just as a forewarning, I'm the loudmouth.
The scenario says Belya is hiding outside the manor. I could question why on earth is she hiding back there for the whole day, but this is D&D so I'll just skip the minor illogicality.
Regarding the spot check needed... well, to spot Belya you don't need to achieve the mentioned DC 40, oh no. The DC 40 is for the hiding spot. Spotting Belya is by average 21, possibly 26 if there's heavy undergrowth or so.
Our 3rd level ranger was lucky and rolled a natural 20 on his spot check, resulting 29 or 30 (favored enemy), enough to beat Belya's hide check. He then proceeded to hail the hiding human, only to see her draw steel and intercept the intruders. Solo against six adventurers, a horse and a dog. Rrrrright. Though that was her description...
Okay, so then Belya attacked and did her thing. Considering that she wasn't the toughest combatant on the block, she quickly fell to the volley of arrows shot by our competent ranger. Then Rale appears, shouts something and unleashes his shocker lizard to deliver a shocking grasp (5d6) damage...
Stop the clock. 5d6 on Tier 1-2. This was the moment I interrupted the DM, initially thinking he was delivering Shocker Lizard's Lethal shock* damage (I know way too much about monsters). The DM assured me it wasn't that, which lead to the whole party into a mind-boggling state. None of us could understand what made this scenario pass through the wall of editors. It wasn't anything like a Tier 1-2, closer to a Tier 3. With four 1st level characters they would have all died to the shocking grasp and lightning bolt.
It's a poor excuse to just mention in a sidebar "This scenario might not be suitable for 1st level characters" or so. If you stray from your own standard of developing scenarios fit for character levels 1 and 2, why have them? Tier 1-2 should *always* mean it's playable with 1-2 lvl characters. Handing out TPKs just like that is irresponsible and against good taste.
Anyway, after dealing with the spellcaster and the shocker lizard we chose to, as Lehmuska said, use every dirty trick we knew to bruteforce the mission through.
I'm also wondering on how seemingly ALL other parties just marched in through the front door. We were cautious. We were told it was haunted and what not, thus wanted to make sure the surroundings weren't full of hidden traps and landmines. This effectively meant we skipped all of the Scooby-Doo stuff. Not that it would have mattered much; I'm confident our odd bunch would have raised an eyebrow at the scene and went onwards. Possibly my very competitive bard would have cast his own Mage hand and beaten Rale's puny performance. HA! HAHAHAHA!
P.S. Niccum is CRAZY! (and dead)
* Just because I know how shocker lizard's lethal shock works and am able to distinguish correct mechanics from wrong doesn't mean I actively use my metaknowledge during gameplay.
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Someone mentioned my name? Indeed, this scenario has certainly raised a ruckus among the group. I won't go into details since the others pretty much covered everything worth mentioning. However, some bullet-points:
* A creature attacking with an initiative modifier high enough to pretty much guarantee that it will go first, delivering a 5d6+1d3 damage (average of around 19.5) attack is just plain wrong for a Tier 1-2 scenario. This amount of damage WILL KILL MOST LVL 1 CHARACTERS OUTRIGHT. Seriously. Lucky for us the recipient of said attack was a lvl 3 Ranger at full hit points (24 I think). Even he ended up at -5.
* The confusion with the Andoran and Cheliax faction quests is something that just shouldn't happen. If I decide to run this scenario I'll rewrite at least this part of it to make certain that the Chelaxians are able to find evidence of summonings without resorting to nabbing the Andoran faction quest note. Perhaps a faded summoning circle under the living room rug and some summoning notes in a desk drawer.
Right, I've said my piece.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Well...the great thing about feedback is that while I can't do much for your game, I can try to offer my advice for handling parts of the adventure for posterity.
FOr some of this though, I am gonna have to consult the adventure and learn about some of the stuff I didn't write.
Let me come back and offer my thoughts, and hopefully some of you will be able to tell me if those thoughts will help future parties and gms.
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The shocker lizard is a 5th lvl wizard's familiar delivering the touch spell Shocking Grasp.
This particular tactic is also written in the scenario, so the DM didn't go and get 'creational'.
If Belya dies at the hands of the PCs, Rale fies into a rage, sends his shocker lizard familiar (and his bodyguards at the higher Tiers) in to deliver a shocking grasp while the illusionist hits the PCs with his combat spells from a distance.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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I would also have thought that shocking grasp couldn't be delivered by a familiar because of its duration of instantaneous. You can hold a charge for most touch spells, but I don't find an indication you can hold it past its duration. I think the shocker lizard fight is suppose to happen in the house.
So,I get that the combat wan run according to directions, but I think if future DMs are going to bring the lizard out of the house, then the wizard should come with them and expose himself. Maybe that will help balance a similar turn of events, since the wizards can't hide in the attic afterwards.
Now, I didn't design this portion of the adventure, so its authors might have better advice, or might know some errata about holding the charge on the shocking grasp, but that's how I think I'd counsel future DMs to avoid what turned out to be a tough and rather bizarre fight for this party.
Does that help any?
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I've just run this adventure for the second time. The first time it was for a Tier 1-2 the second time for a Tier 3-4. On both occasions the players really enjoyed the adventure. The story is very engaging. They entered fully into the atmosphere and did their best to unravel the mysteries. The haunting held up well and then it slipped into a different sort of nightmare with attacks coming from all sorts of unexpected quarters.
I must mention the excellent map which I printed out full size and had removable black patches over the rooms they couldn't see into.
"B" died quickly at the lower tier but on the higher Tier she escaped to snipe at the party from the shadows for the rest of the adventure. "R" (teetering on the edge of the roof, surrounded on three sides, with a sword poised over him) surrendered and cut a deal with the remarkably merciful characters that he would destroy what lay inside the barricaded room. He was eventually released to run off and meet his sweetheart. They lived happily ever after.
NOT SO THE PCs!
In both games the players deeply resented the sudden death encounters that struck without warning, were 99 per cent certain of hitting and killing at least one player, and could easily kill half the party.
Our player with a dead character took it very well but everyone made it clear that it wasn't entertaining, amusing or challenging because there was no way to avoid the threat.
I would like to make three suggestions.
1. Avoid certain death encounters where there is no warning or way to avoid them, or ways for the DM to soften them for over-challenged parties.
2. Write in some DM options to allow for the bumps in the Tiers where a party just qualifies for a higher tier.
3. Make the Tier system more flexible to allow for tables of less than 6 players or parties that are enjoy roleplaying but not "optimised".
4. Make the cost of Raise Dead incremental so that a home play campaign isn't broken up by an impossible spread of levels because of character deaths.
"Blood at Dralkard Manor " 10 out of 10 for quality of adventure 5 out of 10 for balance.