Loremaster is an great class with an interesting flavor, but could do with a few changes:
The prerequisites as written are very strict. When the PRC's were first released I and a friend of mine decided to take them up in our Golarion game. He took Dragon Disciple, and I wanted to go Loremaster(we were both playing sorcerer's). As it stands, there's not a lot of reason for a sorcerer not to take DD, because it's easy to get into and has a lot of bonuses. But I would have to rebuild my character to get into Loremaster.
The 'on track' path to the class gets you in at 7th level. Any non-human would have to perfectly select their feats to qualify for Loremaster at 7. There is no deviation. I would suggest lowering the feat requirement to Skill focus and 2 item/metamagic feats to give characters some leeway to get into the class more easily.
Secrets:
Secret Health should be the same as the new Toughness, 3 + hit die in health.
Thats all I can think of right now.
I tried the loremaster class when I was playing a mage and it was easy for a wizard but it didnt give me hardly anything worthwhile. If you could give the class more feats or let the secrets be chosen more than once THEN it would be viable.
I too agree about Secret Health. It models Toughness, so it should continue to model the improved Toughness feat. Maybe some their other secrets could be tweaked too for ease and utility.
This is actually a very good point - if Loremaster needs any additional power, tweaking the Lore Secrets is a very very simple way of doing it.
I'd like some jazzier secrets, like how about the ability to dimension door at will as a full round action (secrets of timespace)? Or how about a bonus to counterspell or dispel magic? Or the secret of spell turning (x levels per day)? Or the ability to divine what's on the other side of a portal or gate into another plane? Or how about a bonus to control outsiders or dragons (knowledge of secret names)? The existing secrets lack fizz and taste a little flat.
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A few campaigns ago, I had a cleric character who entered the Loremaster prestige class. It was a great choice, fitting my character's background and role well. Not to mention the abilities granted by the class were sorely needed in what was a mid to low magic campaign (ID-ing magic items without the costly Identify spell was much appreciated).
With Pathfinder, I think the class would be a suboptimal choice. (Still a viable role playing choice, though) The changes to game mechanics and high level class abilities make taking this prestige class a difficult mechanical choice. Some of the base abilities of the prestige (4 skill points, effectively 5 bonus feats) make it a good option for clerics and wizards; however, it doesn't seem to be quite as interesting to a sorcerer or bard, the other two classes it tends to attract.
Maybe an upgrade to a few abilities might make this class more appealing:
Bonus Languages - With the revised linguists skill, this is a very subpar ability. Maybe make it equivalent of taking skill focus: Linguistics? (aka three bonus languages)
Greater Lore - Most characters will be reaching this ability in the 13th to 16th level range, why not make the magic item identification ability automatic as it was in the 3.5 edition? This seems like an appropriate ability for characters of that level range.
True Lore - Another really good ability (Legend Lore in one round!). Does once a day work as a capstone ability?
Just some food for thought. Thanks for reading.
True Lore - Another really good ability (Legend Lore in one round!). Does once a day work as a capstone ability?
If it's good enough. I don't see anyone complaining about the Mystic Theurge getting Spell Synthesis only once per day. A 16th level cleric with the Knowledge Domain casts Legend Lore the slow way once per day, so this does seem pretty good (like the Vision spell without the strain). But is it good enough for a capstone considering that you're unlikely to get much combat application out of it?
The ability seems to have more potential power the more I think about it. For example, you can use True Lore to understand the effect of an enemy magic item on the fly and how to counter it. In fact, you can learn secrets about the enemy to discover a weakness, if the enemy is strong enough to inspire any legends. Some explicit tips about possible applications along these lines might help.
Director of Games
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Very interesting thoughts here folks. The loremaster is a class that needs a bit of expansion in my book and there are some good ideas here. Although I want to make sure we keep the existing loremaster abilities, I think there is plenty of room to add a few more options.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I actually prefer that the class really not be any more appealing than it was. Right now it's just right for the folks who want it for roleplaying while still a viable, if not super power optimal class choice.
You want to limit the PrC's appeal for the sake of role-playing? Which unappealing features make RP better? The current secrets lack more in RP than they do in power. I thought the ideas posted by Luke Granlund offered far more interesting ways to do scholarly things to help your group, and they didn't strike me as being all that powerful.
I'd actually like to see his list with a little more oomph at the high end. In a fantasy world, some secrets ought to unlock avenues of possibility that surprise those ignorant of the secret. Knowledge is power, and even 20th level characters mistakenly take some things for granted.
Um yeah... how does being a Loremaster make more sense getting more hitpoints than something like "Know thy Enemy"? Even taking into account roleplaying, it makes more sense.
The Loremaster PrC always seemed like a class that was a neat idea that was never really followed through the right way. It's almost like one person came up with the idea, and another person actually wrote up the details, and the concept went right over his head.
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I really like the options given above. I especially like the idea of the Favored Enemy bonus, only applying it in a spellcaster sense (caster level +1, etc), fits this class concept VERY well.
For some extra ideas in concept, one can look at the Archivist from Heroes of Dread. Similar concept here (the class basically felt like a properly built Loremaster, set to a core class).
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You want to limit the PrC's appeal for the sake of role-playing? Which unappealing features make RP better? The current secrets lack more in RP than they do in power. I thought the ideas posted by Luke Granlund offered far more interesting ways to do scholarly things to help your group, and they didn't strike me as being all that powerful.I'm thinking things in a larger context such as a networked Pathfinder Society game. Put in all the beanies that you'd want an the Pathfinder Society would be full of Loremasters. Perhaps you really understimate how good a Loremaster's knowledge checks would be for most modules.
The other thing is that PrCs should not be so much powerful than base classes that we return to the old days of single classing being suboptimal choices. a PrC should focus on aspects of a core class, maybe improve on one or two, but at enough of a cost that entering one should be a considered decision.
It's the nature of things that players generally always want more power for the classes they like. I tend to think of things from the GM's point of view who has to decide how to balance the new toys.
"Balance" being the key. A 10 Wizard / 10 Lore Master should be of equal strength. As of now a loremaster would end up being an NPC class exclusively. Sure it's got a lot of flavor and knowledge checks "could be" very useful but "how often" and how much more so than that of a 20th level Wizard w/ the same skill ranks? Players want the ability to be at least useful in combat & standing next to a wizard of equal level, the loremaster is not equal. Players need to be given well balanced options with which they can enjoy all facets of game play. If you create a class and/or prestige class, that seems to only excel in camp and/or town, label them an NPC class as you'll only be finding DM's running them. I love flavor and don't mind playing the side-kick but give me some useful options in combat. Increased DC's on spells read from scrolls, Int mod instead of Dex for initiative, anything really to allow the intellectual classes to have their moments in combat as well. We all read fantasy, is it that hard to tell which characters in these stories we love are PCs and which are NPCs? Isn't that what we're doing w/ our game? We are telling a story w/ the PCs as the lead characters, they are only visiting with the "Loremaster" to get advise on their quest.