I have a minor disagreement with Orisons. Being able to cast any spell forever as many times as you want has its abuses. A little Tidbit for your reckoning:
A level 1 cleric can create 2 gallons of fresh water with each use of Create Water
There are 7.48 gallons of water in a cubic foot
There are roughly 3280.84 feet in a kilometer
The Caspian Sea (the worlds largest sea by volume) has 78,200 Cubic kilometers.
If it takes a level 1 cleric 4 castings of Create Water to make a cubic foot, then it takes the same cleric 13123.36 castings to make a cubic kilometer. That being said, it would take the same starting level adventurer 1,026,246,752 castings of create water to fill the largest sea in our real world (according to wikipedia, the Caspian sea is larger than the next 6 largest lakes put together.)
A level 1 cleric can cast Create Water once every 6 seconds (a single round). There are 10 rounds in a minute, 600 rounds in an hour, 14,400 rounds in a day, and 5,256,000 rounds in a year. Thus, it would take our humble starting level adventurer 195.25242617960426179604261796043
years to fill the worlds largest land locked body of water. This number is divided every time our hero goes up a level, at 20th level, it would only take him 9.7626213089802130898021308980213 years. Thats less than a decade. Less than a decade to radically change the landscape with a 0-Level spell. Granted, he couldn't sleep or eat in that time (he'd need a ring of sustainance or something).
food for thought...personally, i'm going to go get a glass of water.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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But would anyone but a God of The Sea/Water and /or some kind of Destruction God really grant his Cleric that kind of Power? A God can giveth and a God can taketh away.
Granted, he couldn't sleep or eat in that time (he'd need a ring of sustainance or something).
A relatively minor thing for a 20th level Cleric.
Welcome to the Paizo boards.
Aren't you glad there is a size limit on bless water?
I have a minor disagreement with Orisons. Being able to cast any spell forever as many times as you want has its abuses. A little Tidbit for your reckoning:
A level 1 cleric can create 2 gallons of fresh water with each use of Create Water
There are 7.48 gallons of water in a cubic foot
There are roughly 3280.84 feet in a kilometer
The Caspian Sea (the worlds largest sea by volume) has 78,200 Cubic kilometers.
If it takes a level 1 cleric 4 castings of Create Water to make a cubic foot, then it takes the same cleric 13123.36 castings to make a cubic kilometer. That being said, it would take the same starting level adventurer 1,026,246,752 castings of create water to fill the largest sea in our real world (according to wikipedia, the Caspian sea is larger than the next 6 largest lakes put together.)
A level 1 cleric can cast Create Water once every 6 seconds (a single round). There are 10 rounds in a minute, 600 rounds in an hour, 14,400 rounds in a day, and 5,256,000 rounds in a year. Thus, it would take our humble starting level adventurer 195.25242617960426179604261796043
years to fill the worlds largest land locked body of water. This number is divided every time our hero goes up a level, at 20th level, it would only take him 9.7626213089802130898021308980213 years. Thats less than a decade. Less than a decade to radically change the landscape with a 0-Level spell. Granted, he couldn't sleep or eat in that time (he'd need a ring of sustainance or something).food for thought...personally, i'm going to go get a glass of water.
Your math is off.
1 cubic kilometer = 3.53146667 × 10000000000 cubic feet
You forgot to account for the 3rd dimension. A cubic km is going to be 3280 X 3280 X 3280 feet. To fill the Caspian sea, that cleric is going to need a little while longer than you think.
On the other hand, filling the pool was never so easy.
It also doesn't account for evaporation, seepage and run-off. Consumtion would contribute on a small scale to the loss, however rainfall would contribute to the accumulation.
As a DM, I rule that unconsumed water from a create water spell dissappears after one hour. I would never allow permanency from any zero level spell, any more than I would from prestidigitation.
food for thought...personally, i'm going to go get a glass of water.
Funny, I have a sudden urge to use the facilities.
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Ok, lets not get our panties in a twist here. :-)
Say, we had 20 of the most powerful priests in the realm casting create water continously for 8 hours each day. How long time would they take to create a 'Caspian sea'?
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I really don't see a problem here.
If a very high level cleric wants to spend a year to create a fishing pond, I think he should be allowed to do so. :-)
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As a DM, I rule that unconsumed water from a create water spell dissappears after one hour. I would never allow permanency from any zero level spell, any more than I would from prestidigitation.
Ditto. Drink up, 'cause it's gonna go poof soon. Also, since most other cantrips aren't level-based, lasting a single minute, or having a static effect (+1 to a roll, 1d3 damage) regardless of the caster's level, I limit the Create Water cantrip to 2 gallons of water per casting.
If a 5th level Cleric wants 10 gallons of water, he can cast it five times.
Pretty much any permanant cantrip-created substance is a bad idea. According to the rules for Conjuration (creation) spells with the Instantaneous duration, the acid generated by an Acid Splash is also permanant, which would allow a Wizard to sit around filling a vat with acid for use in tanning, papercraft, etc. That's another created substance I'd have fade away (either at the end of the round in which it was created, or, at most, one minute, in this case).
Welcome to the boards, sir Swish!
Thanks for everyone welcoming me to the board, it seems you guys are really tight knit. I know my math is off...i realized it about 5 minutes after i posted. I also know that everyone's argument is that the DM would never allow it. I know i wouldn't, or i'd have some really hilarious side effects. The point of posting it was that it was possible as written. I like the idea of having cantrips/orisons be a use as many times as you like deal. Just whenever you add something to a game that is an endless loop, you have to make sure you know how it works with everything else. Take Magic:the gathering for example. How many people have gotten fed up with the game because some guy is running a deck that has some silly loophole that lets him get infinite mana, or life, or damage, or turns, or anything. How many of those loopholes does Magic have? Its something that game designers need to know about, especially in the playtesting stage.
Anyway, i love what paizo is doing. Expect me to keep puting in my 2cents and starting fires.
Well, the problem existed before Paizo introduced unlimited orisions.
Decanter of Endless Water: If the stopper is removed from this ordinary-looking flask and a command word spoken, an amount of fresh or salt water pours out. Separate command words determine the type as well as the volume and velocity.* “Stream” pours out 1 gallon per round.
* “Fountain” produces a 5-foot-long stream at 5 gallons per round.
* “Geyser” produces a 20-foot-long, 1-foot-wide stream at 30 gallons per round.The geyser effect causes considerable back pressure, requiring the holder to make a DC 12 Strength check to avoid being knocked down. The force of the geyser deals 1d4 points of damage but can only affect one target per round. The command word must be spoken to stop it.
Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, control water; Price 9,000 gp;Weight 2 lb.
One of these can be turned on to geyser setting and walk away...
30 gallons per round is 113.56 liters per round.
1 round is 6 seconds, which means 14,400 rounds per day.
That's 1,635,264 liters per day, or 1635.264 cubic meters.
Over a year, that's nearly 600 thousands cubic meters of water being produced.
That's faster than those 20 casters.
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And actually, that would make for an interesting story hook. An inexplicable sea has been growing every year, despite being in an area without the appropriate rainfall.
There's a Decanter of Endless Water at the bottom that was turned on by someone who either died, or purposely left it going.
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And actually, that would make for an interesting story hook. An inexplicable sea has been growing every year, despite being in an area without the appropriate rainfall. There's a Decanter of Endless Water at the bottom that was turned on by someone who either died, or purposely left it going.
The flip side to that would be to have a prominent oasis caravanserai fall into chaos as their oasis dries up. Turns out that they've been using a Decanter for over a century, a secret known only to the local ruler, and now it's been stolen! It must be found and returned, as there is only enough water now for the caravans stationed there to survive for a few days, and nowhere near enough for them to actually make it to another water source! Everyone is doomed if the PCs can't find who stole the Decanter from the bottom of the oasis. (And what if it wasn't stolen, but the Marid who agreed to maintain it has gotten his nose out of joint and must be placated with a combination of diplomacy and 'go fetch me this to earn my respect' missions?)
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And actually, that would make for an interesting story hook. An inexplicable sea has been growing every year, despite being in an area without the appropriate rainfall. There's a Decanter of Endless Water at the bottom that was turned on by someone who either died, or purposely left it going.
The flip side to that would be to have a prominent oasis caravanserai fall into chaos as their oasis dries up. Turns out that they've been using a Decanter for over a century, a secret known only to the local ruler, and now it's been stolen! It must be found and returned, as there is only enough water now for the caravans stationed there to survive for a few days, and nowhere near enough for them to actually make it to another water source! Everyone is doomed if the PCs can't find who stole the Decanter from the bottom of the oasis. (And what if it wasn't stolen, but the Marid who agreed to maintain it has gotten his nose out of joint and must be placated with a combination of diplomacy and 'go fetch me this to earn my respect' missions?)
I just love, how this wonderful ideas pop-up in this forums. Paizo need to call for another RPG Super Star very soon.
Swish! Welcome! Have some cookies! *passes out the complimentary cookies*
A more efficient way for a high level caster to do this is open an upside-down gate to the elemental plane of water. This idea is very much like the plot of Final Fantasy Legend III.
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Your math is off.
1 cubic kilometer = 3.53146667 × 10000000000 cubic feet
You forgot to account for the 3rd dimension. A cubic km is going to be 3280 X 3280 X 3280 feet. To fill the Caspian sea, that cleric is going to need a little while longer than you think.
On the other hand, filling the pool was never so easy.
The Pleasure Salon of Calistria is in the Ascendant Court (of course).
or taking a bath
specially for pesky and annoying clerics of Iomedae who are very serious about being clean and or prescentable...
that is why our party wizard is always ready with a presdigitation cantrip for those time when she looks to him smiling sweetly and saying with an almost cute voice 'please could you...?'
she never getsto end the phrase
have i said how much i love to playe her :D