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As the owner of Castle Games in Colorado Springs It would be nice to know when I can expect a reprint/restock of the basic beta core rules.
As it stands now I could have 4 or 5 different groups contributing as Iv'e made them aware of the existance of a MUCH better system then 4.0
Unfortunatly I then have to let them peruse my store copy as Iv'e been unable to procure enough copys for my own group!
Distribution has been unable to give me a time frame as to when reprint might occur, and obviously the "free" download is not the best option buisness wise!
Jeff Barry
Castle games and gifts LLC
www.castlegamesandgifts.com
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Jeff,
I suspect a reprint will be at least two to three months away. We flubbed our prediction big time, and we've been trying to schedule the reprint ever since.
We _do_ have a few copies left that we would be willing to sell direct to supportive retailers. Please contact our Sales Manager Chris Self at chris.self@paizo.com.
Thanks,
Erik Mona
Publisher
3 months from now is February.
Will people want to pay for the "prototype" rules in print when the final product is only 6 months away?
Just wondering if making more is a good idea if they wont be available for 3 more months.
3 months from now is February.
Will people want to pay for the "prototype" rules in print when the final product is only 6 months away?
Just wondering if making more is a good idea if they wont be available for 3 more months.
I was wondering about that also. It's a tough call. I'm sure there are stacks of some product or another sitting on Paizo's shelf which make the Powers the Be at Paizo quite cautious about this very issue.
What about an updated pdf Beta?
The Wizard spell section had a lot of errors.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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3 months from now is February.
Will people want to pay for the "prototype" rules in print when the final product is only 6 months away?
Just wondering if making more is a good idea if they wont be available for 3 more months.
We are frankly wondering the same thing.
But people keep asking for it, so....
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I hope when the final rules come out we can still get a PDF. I bought 8 copies of the BETA and gave them to my groups. But for me I printed the PDF and I use it in a notebook with tabs. I can find things so much easier than ever before and I love it. I plan to buy several copies of the final rules also but still want the PDF for myself as I DM.
Thanks for all the Fish...
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I think you'll still be able to buy a pdf, as Paizo sell .pdfs of all their other products. The issue, I would think, is whether or not they'll have a rulebook subscription, as Erik mentioned elsewhere, because presumably that would mean subscribers would get a pdf bundled in at no extra cost (which will be a Good Thing, given that otherwise Amazon prices are likely to be substantially cheaper for just the book).
Its a amazing and nice news. I have to wonder how does the Pathfinder series sell. It seems better than expected. At least in this case. Have many of the products sold better than expected?
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Creative Director
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Its a amazing and nice news. I have to wonder how does the Pathfinder series sell. It seems better than expected. At least in this case. Have many of the products sold better than expected?
We had a pretty aggressive and generous estimate of how many copies of each Pathfinder Adventure Path volume we wanted to sell in order to be a big success. Pathfinder tends to sell a few thousand copies over that number—which is another way of saying it's VERY successful. The response we've been getting to the PF RPG has also been WAY more than we anticipated (blew out my estimates by tens of thousands of unique hits, at the very least).
Anyway... things are going pretty dang well, but at the same point, it's not all peeled grapes and fast cars here at Paizo either. The RPG industry's always been a tough one to make money in. We're doing pretty well, and the future is looking VERY promising, but I'm not running out making crazy purchases. Well... mostly. I did just buy a new car, I suppose...
As for the PDF... I cannot foresee a future that doesn't include a PDF version of the Pathfinder RPG. There WILL be a PDF version of the rules. As for how one will go about getting them... that's still being worked out. Keep an eye on the boards and our blog for news!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Anyway... things are going pretty dang well, but at the same point, it's not all peeled grapes and fast cars here at Paizo either.
[creep]I'll peel your grapes for you, James.[/creep]
The RPG industry's always been a tough one to make money in. We're doing pretty well, and the future is looking VERY promising, but I'm not running out making crazy purchases. Well... mostly. I did just buy a new car, I suppose...
Was it a Chevrolet Cobalt (kobold), a Nissan Rogue, or a Nissan Pathfinder?
Seriously, it doesn't at all surprise me that Pathfinder Adventure Path is doing well. It's a friggin' amazing product. That the PRPG is looking promising is no surprise either.
Anyway... things are going pretty dang well, but at the same point, it's not all peeled grapes and fast cars here at Paizo either.[creep]I'll peel your grapes for you, James.[/creep]
The RPG industry's always been a tough one to make money in. We're doing pretty well, and the future is looking VERY promising, but I'm not running out making crazy purchases. Well... mostly. I did just buy a new car, I suppose...Was it a Chevrolet Cobalt (kobold), a Nissan Rogue, or a Nissan Pathfinder?
Seriously, it doesn't at all surprise me that Pathfinder Adventure Path is doing well. It's a friggin' amazing product. That the PRPG is looking promising is no surprise either.
well congratulations. Its well deserved. I have abandoned the Realms after many many years. I think I found a new home in Golarion.
So Thanks
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Jeff,
We _do_ have a few copies left that we would be willing to sell direct to supportive retailers. Please contact our Sales Manager Chris Self at chris.self@paizo.com.
Actually, we found this NOT to be the case at all.
I had the manager at our store contact PAIZO and we're told that you guys have decided NOT to do this.
But hey, you guys can make more money selling it directly to the customers, anyhow.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Jeff,
We _do_ have a few copies left that we would be willing to sell direct to supportive retailers. Please contact our Sales Manager Chris Self at chris.self@paizo.com.Actually, we found this NOT to be the case at all.
I had the manager at our store contact PAIZO and we're told that you guys have decided NOT to do this.
But hey, you guys can make more money selling it directly to the customers, anyhow.
It's no longer true because this print run is now completely sold out. We don't even have copies left for direct sales.
It's no longer true because this print run is now completely sold out. We don't even have copies left for direct sales.Jeff,
We _do_ have a few copies left that we would be willing to sell direct to supportive retailers. Please contact our Sales Manager Chris Self at chris.self@paizo.com.Actually, we found this NOT to be the case at all.
I had the manager at our store contact PAIZO and we're told that you guys have decided NOT to do this.
But hey, you guys can make more money selling it directly to the customers, anyhow.
Frankly, this is great news to hear. That you have NO copies left of that print run is IMO a Good Thing. It means all the copies are out in play and/or sitting on shelves (like mine) to provide spare copies when the first one acquired is worn into coleslaw.
IIRC, I believe I wound up ordering a total of 8 or 10 copies, all but 3 of which went to the rest of the group. 2 of my 3 personal copies are on my shelf awaiting the inevitable (although certainly not desired) demise of the first book. :)
I would not recommend another print run of the PRPG Beta unless Paizo received a sufficient "pre-order" volume to warrant it.
EDIT: Given the short time frame a second print run would see use - only six months - I would estimate that the Beta rules book pretty much dies on the vine within at most a month after release of the PRPG core book.
EDIT: Given the short time frame a second print run would see use - only six months - I would estimate that the Beta rules book pretty much dies on the vine within at most a month after release of the PRPG core book.
While I mostly agree with you here Turin - seeing the "White Sample" of the final book (awesome as it is) makes me think there are the occasional people who would rather have a light-weight Beta to reference while traveling, even if not everything is up to date.
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Creative Director
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EDIT: Given the short time frame a second print run would see use - only six months - I would estimate that the Beta rules book pretty much dies on the vine within at most a month after release of the PRPG core book.While I mostly agree with you here Turin - seeing the "White Sample" of the final book (awesome as it is) makes me think there are the occasional people who would rather have a light-weight Beta to reference while traveling, even if not everything is up to date.
Ugh... that makes me wince, actually. Seems some people are already confused enough, it seems, about whether the Beta is the final game or not. We've even had a few designers write stuff for us using the Beta rules for 3.5 products despite the fact we told them they're writing a 3.5 product.
The idea of a "lightweight" RPG is an interesting one, but once the actual game is out, I'd rather see the existing Betas turn into memorabilia and souvenirs and not remain as references.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I would not recommend another print run of the PRPG Beta unless Paizo received a sufficient "pre-order" volume to warrant it.
The opportunity for us to reprint it has passed. Given that it would take a couple of months to get the reprint, the playtest would be over before the product could be available again.
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The idea of a "lightweight" RPG is an interesting one, but once the actual game is out, I'd rather see the existing Betas turn into memorabilia and souvenirs and not remain as references.
I'd like to see a Pocket PFPHB, just something players can bring to cons and the table for quick lookups on class abilities and stuff.
[The idea of a "lightweight" RPG is an interesting one, but once the actual game is out, I'd rather see the existing Betas turn into memorabilia and souvenirs and not remain as references.
It is interesting to see how many people are paying good money for a book that is offered for free online and is admittedly useless in 9 months
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Anyway... things are going pretty dang well, but at the same point, it's not all peeled grapes and fast cars here at Paizo either.[creep]I'll peel your grapes for you, James.[/creep]
The RPG industry's always been a tough one to make money in. We're doing pretty well, and the future is looking VERY promising, but I'm not running out making crazy purchases. Well... mostly. I did just buy a new car, I suppose...Was it a Chevrolet Cobalt (kobold), a Nissan Rogue, or a Nissan Pathfinder?
Seriously, it doesn't at all surprise me that Pathfinder Adventure Path is doing well. It's a friggin' amazing product. That the PRPG is looking promising is no surprise either.
well congratulations. Its well deserved. I have abandoned the Realms after many many years. I think I found a new home in Golarion.
So Thanks
I'm waving at you, from the upper decks of the same boat MerrikCale is in right now... :)
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Its a amazing and nice news. I have to wonder how does the Pathfinder series sell. It seems better than expected. At least in this case. Have many of the products sold better than expected?
I was just in my FLGS two days ago talking to the owner. He knows me and my love of all things PF; and I'm involved heavily on our local community messagebaords for gamers - so everyone knows me to be vocally supportive and endorsing of PF.
When I asked him how business was doing, he said, "4th edition is still flying off the shelf. The Pathfinder stuff sells really well, too; surprising, it sells almost as well."
That's further encouraging; considering that many people buy most of their PF stuff directly from Paizo as subscriptions, and not even through the stores.
I was at the store with two players (husband and wife) I had recruited via the local email messageboards for gaming; they were new to the area; when they learned we were doing Pathfinder (which they had never heard of), they quickly and enthusiastically bought the last copy of the Beta rule book sitting on their shelves.
Robert
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I had to print the rules for my players... I wish I had ordered more copies beside my own DM's copy. Anyway, I don't see why a second print run couldn't sell, because a lot of people may not want to playtest the rules -- they might want just to *play* the game, while waiting for the "upgraded" (or "finalized") version of the rules (PF RPG) to come out. I don't personally know anyone who has decided to skip Beta and keep playing 3E until PF RPG comes out next year. I *do* know many people who have played Alpha and Beta and yet cared not a whit about "official" playtesting or participating in it. Still, I can understand why it's a risk to try a second print run in a couple of months, and as a publisher I probably wouldn't do it either (unless there was a demand for it).
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Chief Technical Officer
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Anyway, I don't see why a second print run couldn't sell, because a lot of people may not want to playtest the rules -- they might want just to *play* the game, while waiting for the "upgraded" (or "finalized") version of the rules (PF RPG) to come out. I don't personally know anyone who has decided to skip Beta and keep playing 3E until PF RPG comes out next year. I *do* know many people who have played Alpha and Beta and yet cared not a whit about "official" playtesting or participating in it. Still, I can understand why it's a risk to try a second print run in a couple of months, and as a publisher I probably wouldn't do it either (unless there was a demand for it).
We set the price point on the Beta as low as we reasonably could in order to get it into the hands of a lot of people. Because print costs are impacted significantly by the number of copies printed, in order to not lose money on the reprint, we'd have to A) print as many copies as we did the first time and B) sell almost all of those copies. Given that it would take a few months to get those copies back from the printer, that means we'd have to sell all those copies after the playtest is over but before the finished RPG is released (rendering the Beta obsolete). You're right that there's probably an audience of some size that would buy it during that period, but it's highly doubtful that it would be enough.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Shouldn't there be a press release somewhere about this, or would the 'we should have printed more' side be too embarrassing?
Generally, "Hey! You can't buy this book anymore!" isn't the kind of thing we like to make a lot of noise about.
While we all wish we'd printed more, saying "we sold out our entire print run in four months" isn't all that embarrassing!
I did not wait for a new print run, I just printed the Beta on my printer and am sure glad I did. With the additions of the new magic items, prestige classes, and the changing of the paladin, I just punched holes and inserted them into the binder. Our whole gaming groups is doing this and works well. So at least there are optioins out there.
I have to agree that a new print run wouldn't make much sense at this point in time. Nevertheless, it is heartening to hear that the demand for the Pathfinder Beta has been so good. Just how large was the print run anyway - 5000 copies or so? Regardless, maybe this should have some bearing on the print-run of the final product!
I would like to submit that maybe another print run of the beta rules would still be useful. I had to scrounge online to find a print copy, and am still waiting for it to be delivered. In the meantime, I managed to print the character creation chapters for us by my players, while I use the PDF on my laptop. So while I already have one coming, there might still be quite a few people who want to start a campaign before August that would be willing to buy the beta. I'm sure they're rather buy them from Paizo than go digging online like I did.
I would like to submit that maybe another print run of the beta rules would still be useful.
The Beta playtest ends in February some time, I think. So another print run seems unlikely...
It's January!
Add 4 (to 6) months for the print run, you end up May (to July) and in August the final RPG gets released.
Even if some still would buy the Beta after the release of the final product, Paizo would have thousands of copies they would not be able to sell.
I will gladly sell you my copy of the beta, please allow 6 months for delivery though.
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Well, you could always have the rulebook printed out a Kinkos. They can print it out very fast, doublesided, punched and bound for around $30. (I only offer this advice because the .pdf is obviously offered for free and the rulebooks are no longer available unless you're lucky enough to find a store with a copy still in stock. The shop in my area sold all of their copies quickly)
Unfortunately, a variety of RL events have kept me from having the money to buy a copy of the playtest rules till now. I would gladly have paid the money for one.
(Sad to say, there's only place I can get one printed in town. And their cost on a 400-page print job is prohibitive.)
Guess I'll just wait for the full rulebook then. It'll make a good birthday present for myself.
And also, its much more useful, its a book that'll last at least years.
I thought I already posted this but maybe it got eaten. Amazon has the Beta if anyone is looking for it, and for only $16.50.
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Shouldn't there be a press release somewhere about this, or would the 'we should have printed more' side be too embarrassing?Generally, "Hey! You can't buy this book anymore!" isn't the kind of thing we like to make a lot of noise about.
While we all wish we'd printed more, saying "we sold out our entire print run in four months" isn't all that embarrassing!
What about a lulu version? Or do you guys not want to do that since they're effectively a half-publishing company as well? So people could still get a print copy without having to do an additional print run.
You got some from Amazon? I thought you didn't distribute any to Amazon...huh.
You got some from Amazon? I thought you didn't distribute any to Amazon...huh.
Not sure about the others. I picked up a copy from a 3rd party vendor on Amazon.com, not Amazon directly.
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Chief Technical Officer
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What about a lulu version? Or do you guys not want to do that since they're effectively a half-publishing company as well? So people could still get a print copy without having to do an additional print run.
The price we'd have to charge customers would be... unattractive. I've heard, though, that they will print and bind any PDFs you own, but I don't know know any details on that.
You got some from Amazon? I thought you didn't distribute any to Amazon...huh.
Because this was a low-margin item for us, our initial plan was not to sell to book distribution, because they only buy things with full returnability, and the return fees for any copies they sent back would actually make us lose money. However, we learned that some book retailers had already taken preorders before the release date; since we didn't want to leave anyone hanging (and since preorders were unlikely to be returned), we shipped them just enough to cover preorders. Why Amazon *still* has copies, though, is a mystery to me.