[Sorcerer Bloodlines] Bloodline Add-On Effects for Spells

[quest-master]

I think that the Sorceror would gain more distinction if the bloodline affected how certain spells work or added special effects to the spells.

For example, a celestial bloodline sorceror that casts a buff spell on an ally also heals that ally X amount of hit points.

For example, a draconic bloodline sorceror that casts an attack spell that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage deals an additional X amount of damage to all targets.

Of course this could probably be done as feats but would it make players happy to have it as an automatic class feature?

[BlaineTog]

I agree. The sorcerer's bloodline abilities would be much nicer if they directly helped his spellcasting.

[Abraham spalding]

Yeah to mention some non OGL products, the sorcerer heritage feats from PHB 2 had a really nice feel and power level to them, IMO.

However I would like to see a more direct influence on the sorcerer's spells based off of his bloodline.

[Jason Bulmahn]

This is an interesting concept. Lets see if we can come up with a number of succinct powers for each bloodline to gain that affects their spellcasting that are roughly balanced with each other.

Feel free to post them in this thread.

Here is one for start.

Draconic Spells (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

[Fatespinner]

Here's a few, just off the top of my head:

Abyssal Bloodline:

Dark Fortitude (Su): Whenever you cast a spell from the Conjuration(Summoning) or (Calling) school to summon an Evil creature, that creature gains DR/good equal to 1/2 your caster level. If the creature already has DR/good, take the better of 1/2 your caster level or the creature's existing DR +2.

Fey Bloodline:

Echoes of the Fae (Su): Whenever you cast a spell from the Illusion school that targets yourself or an ally, the recipient of the spell gains concealment for a number of rounds equal to the spell level used in addition to the normal effects of the spell.

Celestial Bloodline:

Arcane Inspiration (Su): Whenever you cast an Enchantment spell upon an ally, you may also make a dispel check (as dispel magic) to remove any one hostile Enchantment currently affecting the recipient.

[Jason Nelson]

Hmmm... how about for the Undead bloodline:

Necromentalism (Su): Spells you cast with the mind-affecting descriptor function normally against undead, even mindless undead.

The rationale being that you are able to contact and affect their deathless psyche at a very primal level because of your bloodline, that you and the undead are "on the same wavelength" so to say.

It would also avoid you having to learn separate mind-aff spells vs. living and necro spells vs. undead (command/charm/halt/etc.).

or:

Necrotic reaving (Su): You disregard an undead creature's immunity to critical hits when attacking them a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability. In addition, when you score a critical hit with a necromantic spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect, you gain the benefits of a death knell spell even if the target is not slain.

This would be a higher-level undead bloodline ability, but seems like a fun and thematic combat add.

[Set]

Jason Nelson wrote:

Necrotic reaving (Su): You disregard an undead creature's immunity to critical hits when attacking them a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability. In addition, when you score a critical hit with a necromantic spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect, you gain the benefits of a death knell spell even if the target is not slain.

This would be a higher-level undead bloodline ability, but seems like a fun and thematic combat add.

That one's *hot.* I love it! A Necromancer who is empowered and 'embiggened' by the carnage he's causing!

[quest-master]

Arcane Bloodline

Mystic Surge (Su): Once per day, when you apply a metamagic feat to a spell, you can increase its caster level by 1 and its save DC by 2.

Destined Bloodline

Hour of Destiny (Su): Whenever you cast a spell on yourself, you gain a bonus to your next saving throw equal to the level of the spell. This effect lasts for 1 hour or until you cast another spell on yourself.

Fey Bloodline

Mysterious Pull (Su): Once per day, you can teleport 1 creature that has just failed a saving throw against your spell up to 5 feet per level of the spell.

[Jason Nelson]

Here's kind of an interesting idea, maybe it's good maybe it's not but just thought of it, for the Arcane bloodline:

Metamagician (Su): When casting a spell to which you have applied a metamagic feat, the spell takes effect at +1 caster level.

The basic idea here would be that the Arcane bloodline gives you this instinctual familiarity with tinkering with magic, and that spells that you metamagic are by definition spells to which you have "added a little something extra" - an instinctual shortcut or efficiency upgrade. You get an in-game reward for tinkering with spells, because goshdarn it you just can't help yourself!

Here are a couple more for Arcane:

Sorcerous duelist (Su): You gain a +1 bonus to all caster level checks when casting sorcerer spells. This bonus is increased to +5 when using dispel magic to counterspell.

Seems like if you have the arcane bloodline you should have an instinctual flair for going spell-against-spell in the most effective way.

Sorcerous support (Su): As a standard action you can expend a spell slot to assist the spellcasting of an ally within 30 feet. The ally gains a bonus to caster level checks when casting arcane spells equal to twice the level of the spell slot you expended. This benefit is halved if your ally casts divine spells, psionics, or spell-like abilities [or maybe they should gain no benefit]. This bonus lasts for 1 round.

I could also see this being perhaps more useful if you did it like this:

The ally gains a +2 bonus to caster level checks for a number of rounds equal to the spell slot expended.

Or maybe:

The ally's arcane spells take effect at +1 caster level for a number of rounds equal to the spell slot expended. (this version would definitely provide no benny to people doing anything other than actual arcane spellcasting)

The first two versions are mostly useful if you are fighting a creature with good SR or attempting a dispel or break enchantment vs. a high DC. The third more generally useful.

[Jason Nelson]

quest-master wrote:

Arcane Bloodline

Mystic Surge (Su): Once per day, when you apply a metamagic feat to a spell, you can increase its caster level by 1 and its save DC by 2.

JINX!

We were posting something very similar simultaneously. Funny...

[Dennis da Ogre]

Fey Bloodline: Whenever casting any spells of the Enchantment school of magic increase save DC by +1.

Aberrant Bloodline: Spells cast from the polymorph subschool which have a duration measured in rounds or minutes, last 50% longer than normal.

[Fatespinner]

A few more for the Draconics:

Fear Mastery (Su): Any spell you cast with the Fear descriptor has it's caster level and save DC increased by 2.

Dragonheart (Ex): You are considered a dragon for the purposes of hostile spells used against you (hold person, charm person, etc.). Beneficial spells are unaffected. You do not gain any of the normal draconic immunities through this ability, only the alteration in creature type to determine if a spell can affect you. Hostile spells that specifically target dragons affect you normally as well, regardless of your base creature type.

[quest-master]

Aberrant Bloodline:

Slimy Grasp (Su): Once per day, when you cast an area spell that requires creatures within its area to make saving throws, you can conjure grasping tentacles within the area of effect. Each target of your choice in the area that fails its saving throw against the spell is entangled until the end of your next turn. A creature entangled by this spell can make a Strength check as a move action to remove the entangled condition. The DC for the check is equal to the save DC of the spell.

Abyssal Bloodline:

Abyssal Undermine (Su): Whenever you cast an area attack spell, each target that takes damage from the spell also takes a profane penalty to saves vs. fear and lightning effects for 1 hour. The penalty is equal to the level of the spell.

Infernal Bloodline:

Hellish Undermine (Su): Whenever you cast an area attack spell, each target that takes damage from the spell also takes a profane penalty to saves vs. fear and fire effects for 1 hour. The penalty is equal to the level of the spell.

[Roman]

Infernal Bloodline

Hell's Temptation [Su]
Hell has it's own infernal allure and giving in to its temptation has led many to their doom. Every time a sorcerer with the infernal bloodline casts a single-target spell, the target's Willpower saving throw bonus declines by 1 for a number of round equal to the sorcerer's level. Multiple-uses of this ability stack and the sorcerer can supress it when casting spells on allies.

[Roman]

Elemental Bloodline

Elemental Affinity [Su]
Every time a sorcerer casts a beneficial spell upon an ally, the ally also gets resistance to the element that he is affiliated with. The resistance amounts to 1 point per the level of the spell cast and lasts for a number of rounds equal to the sorcerer's level.

[Roman]

Draconic Bloodline

Dragon's Might [Su]
Every time the sorcerer casts a spell on himself he temporarily awakens a piece of his draconic power and grows stronger: his melee attacks do +1 damage for a number of rounds equal to the sorcerer's level.

*I was originally thinking giving the sorcerer +1 Strength per spell cast upon himself and would still prefer to do so, but I know that the new philosophy is to make high-level play easier by avoiding having to recalculate ability scores on the fly, so I settled on a damage bonus. I suppose similar abilities could be made for other such abilities:

Dragon's Strike [Su] could grant +1 to Attack

Dragon's Hide [Su] could grant +1 to Natural Armor

... and so on.

Note: These abilities fit more with the combat side of the sorcerer and might mesh especially well with the Dragon Disciple prestige class.

[KnightErrantJR]

While it seems like a cool idea, I'm not sure I'm really on board for this. I don't know if it would be balanced or unbalanced, but at some point I think we really need to quit adding class abilities, and make sure the ones that were presented work the way they should.

Also, the more you make things like this automatic class features, the less use you have for feats, which are suppose to be there to help customize classes for things like this.

[Roman]

Celestial Bloodline

Majesty of the Heavens [Su]
As long as there are no open hostilities between the sorcerer and his allies and the onlookers, the casting of a non-offensive spell can impress the onlookers into changing their attitude to the sorcerer by one step, subject to a diplomacy check at a bonus equal to +1 per spell level of the spell cast.

[Jason Nelson]

For the Arcane bloodline:

Arcane insight (Su): You gain a +2 insight bonus to all Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks. In addition, as a free action you may sacrifice a spell slot to increase this bonus by an amount equal to twice the level of the spell slot expended (e.g., sacrificing a 4th level spell slot would improve the bonus by 8, to +10). This bonus lasts for 1 minute.

For the Infernal bloodline:

Devilsight (Su): You gain darkvision to 30 feet and the ability to see through magical darkness, including deeper darkness. In addition, you gain a bonus equal to your sorcerer level to opposed Perception checks to notice devils using Disguise or Stealth.

[Jason Nelson]

For the Draconic bloodline:

Dragoneye (Su): Your senses are very keen, providing a +2 bonus to Perception checks. In addition, any penalties to Perception because of distance are halved. As a move action, you may focus your senses and gain blindsense with a radius of 5 feet per sorcerer level.

For the Fey bloodline:

Weather eye (Su): You ignore concealment from natural or magical fog, mist, clouds, smoke, or weather effects.

Natural intuition (Su): You gain a +2 bonus to Sense Motive checks and to saves made to disbelieve illusions. In addition, you gain a bonus equal to half your sorcerer level to Perception checks made to see through disguises; this bonus is doubled if the disguise is magical (including illusion and polymorph effects).

[quest-master]

I think that some of the posts here are wandering from the topic.

Please submit effects that actually affect or add to the spells being cast by the sorceror.

That said, here is another add-on effect.

Fey Bloodline:

Hazing Spell (Su): Once per day, you can impose the following effect on a creature that you have just damaged with an attack spell. The target must make a Will saving throw or be fascinated until the start of its next turn. The save DC is equal to the spell's save DC.

Hmm...

Perhaps a rule should be made that states that save DCs for sorceror bloodline spell effects should be the same as the DCs of the spells that they add on to.

[Jason Nelson]

quest-master wrote:

I think that some of the posts here are wandering from the topic.

Please submit effects that actually affect or add to the spells being cast by the sorceror.

Fair enough. The things above were, to use a warlock analogy, invocations that do their own separate thing, rather than that add riders/piggyback effects to the eldritch blast, which is I think more what you (at least) would like to see.

How about, for the Celestial template:

Glowspell (Su): The target of any spell you cast with the light descriptor is limned with a golden radiance equivalent to faerie fire for 1 round times the level of the spell. The target is dazzled as long as this glow persists. The glow can be negated with the application of a darkness spell.

or

Dawnstrike (Su): As a full-round action, you may choose to infuse a damaging spell you cast with positive energy. This spell inflicts 1 point of positive energy sorcerer level, effectively negating some or all of the damage the spell would normally inflict upon living creatures but adding to its damage vs. undead. The positive energy infused into a spell by dawnstrike cannot exceed the damage normally inflicted by the spell.

[Set]

Roman wrote:

Draconic Bloodline

Dragon's Might [Su]
Every time the sorcerer casts a spell on himself he temporarily awakens a piece of his draconic power and grows stronger: his melee attacks do +1 damage for a number of rounds equal to the sorcerer's level.

*I was originally thinking giving the sorcerer +1 Strength per spell cast upon himself and would still prefer to do so, but I know that the new philosophy is to make high-level play easier by avoiding having to recalculate ability scores on the fly, so I settled on a damage bonus. I suppose similar abilities could be made for other such abilities:

A variation on this that might work for several bloodlines would be to have spellcasting by the sorcerer provide them with an infusion of life-energy, either from their draconic heritage or fiendish reinforcement or celestial succor, allowing them to heal 1 hp / spell level cast (and gaining any excess as temporary bonus hit points for one hour, but not stacking, with only the most powerful effect taking hold).

So a Celestial Sorcerer might gain 3 temporary hit points if casting a Fireball at full health, but no additional hit points if he then cast another spell of 3rd level or lower. If he's damaged and down to only 1 temporary hit point, he would bump that back up to +3 with the next Fireball.

[Dennis da Ogre]

A few more thoughts on bloodlines affecting spells.

Aberrant Bloodline: Whenever you cast a spell within the polymorph subschool on yourself, choose either strength or dexterity and increase the bonus to that attribute by 1 (or likewise reduce a penalty by 1). This additional bonus increases to 2 at 10th level, and 3 at 15th level.

Celestial: Once per day when summoning a creature with the celestial template treat your summons as if you had the augment summoning feat. At 5th level and every 5 caster levels beyond 5th you may use this ability one additional time per day.
A similar Abyssal and Infernal power could be created.

[Dennis da Ogre]

A few more:

Elemental Bloodline: (Energy Mastery) Any spell that deals energy damage (cold, fire, acid, or electricity) you can choose to substitute damage appropriate to your elemental instead.

[see]

My suggestion is that these be granted at 2nd level, and be called "Bloodline Arcana":

Aberrant Logic (Su): Whenever you cast a spell that normally affects only humanoid creatures, it can affect aberrations and monstrous humanoids as well.

Abyssal Strike (Su): Whenever you cast a spell that is delivered by a melee touch attack, you gain a bonus to hit with that attack equal to the spell's level, the threat range for a critical is 19-20, and the critical damage multiplier is ×3.

Arcane Power (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with the force descriptor, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.

Celestial Judgment (Su): Whenever a spell you cast affects a creature with the evil subtype, it ignores that creature's energy resistances.

Destined Luck (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with a target of "You", you recieve a luck bonus of +2 to saving throws for the duration of that spell.

Draconic Wrath (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your draconic bloodline energy type, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.

Elemental Supremacy (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor, you may change it to your elemental bloodline energy type.

Fey Bewitchment (Su): Whenever you cast a spell from the illusion (pattern) subschool, the duration is doubled and you cast it with a +2 bonus to its save DC.

Infernal Eloquence (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with the language-dependent descriptor, the duration is doubled and you cast it with a +2 bonus to its save DC.

Undead Influence (Su): Whenever you cast a spell with the mind-affecting descriptor, it affects undead (including mindless undead) as if they were humanoids.

[Monkeygod]

I love this idea, as Bloodline feats, powers, classes, etc that allows the Sorcerer to further tap into the inherent power of his ancestors is a concept i have long loved, and i personally would like to see this be the true focus of the Sorc in Pathfinder, which i believe Jason has already stated is also his goal.

[Jon S]

I like most of these. Here are some more Ideas

Celestial Mercy (Su): You may choose to substitute non-lethal damage for any damage type your spells normally do.

Elemental Spells (Su): You ignore 3x Spell Level points of energy resistance whenever you cast a spell with an energy descriptor that matches your elemental bloodline energy type.

Fey Spells (Su): While outside of Urban Terrain you cast all Enchantment and Illusion spells at +2 save DC.

[quest-master]

[Aberrant Bloodline]
Tentacular Graft (Su): When you successfully hit with a touch spell, you can spend a spell slot of equal or lesser spell level to cause a tentacle to appear on the target's body. The tentacle immediately makes a special grapple attack against the target, using the target's Strength modifier and your base attack bonus. The grapple can only be used to damage or pin the target. The tentacle disappears after taking 5 points of damage or at the end of the target's next turn, whichever comes first.

Multiple Mouths (Su): Once per day if you cast a spell targeting only yourself, you can cause 1 mouth to appear on each of your hands. During your next turn, you can cast up to 3 standard action verbal component-only spells using the same standard action. The mouths disappear at the end of that turn. All spells cast during that turn must be of equal or lesser spell level as the spell you cast on yourself to activate this effect. The Still Spell feat can be applied in this case.

[Epic Meepo]

If we want bloodlines powers that directly affect casting, what about standardizing bloodlines by changing the sorcerer thusly:

Table: The Sorcerer
Level - Special
1st - Bloodline, cantrips, eschew materials
2nd - Bonus feat
3rd - Energy resistance 5
5th - Bonus feat
7th - Eschew vocalization
9th - Energy resistance 10
11th - Bonus feat
13th - Eschew gestures
15th - Energy resistance 20
17th - Bonus feat
19th - Eschew costly materials
20th - Energy immunity

Spells Known: (same as Beta plus the following) At 3rd level and every two sorcerer levels thereafter, the sorcerer gains one bonus spell known of the highest-level sorcerer spell he can cast. This bonus spell known is in addition to the number of spells known listed on the appropriate table. The sorcerer must choose one of his bloodline's favored spells (see below) as this bonus spell known.

Bloodline (Ex): At 1st level, a sorcerer selects a bloodline. Each bloodline has an associated class skill and energy type, in addition to a list of bonus feats and a list of favored spells.

The bloodlines are as follows:

Spoiler:

Aberrant
Class Skill: Knowledge (dungeoneering).
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Acid.
Favored Spells: Transmutation spells.

Abyssal
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes).
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Electricity.
Favored Spells: Conjuration spells.

Arcane
Class Skill: Knowledge (any one).
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Choose one: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic.
Favored Spells: Spells of any one chosen school.

Celestial
Class Skill: Heal.
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Cold.
Favored Spells: Abjuration spells and spells with the light descriptor.

Destined
Class Skill: Knowledge (history)
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Choose one: acid, cold, electricty, fire, or sonic.
Favored Spells: Divination spells.

Draconic
Class Skill: Perception.
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Choose one: acid, cold, electricity, or fire.
Favored Spells: Spells with a descriptor matching the chosen energy type.

Elemental (Air)
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes).
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Electricity.
Favored Spells: Spells with the air or electricity descriptors.

Elemental (Earth)
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes).
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Acid.
Favored Spells: Spells with the acid or earth descriptors.

Elemental (Fire)
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes)
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Fire.
Favored Spells: Spells with the fire descriptor.

Elemental (Air)
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes)
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Cold.
Favored Spells: Spells with the cold or water descriptors.

Fey
Class Skill: Knowledge (nature)
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Cold.
Favored Spells: Illusion spells.

Infernal
Class Skill: Diplomacy.
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Fire.
Favored Spells: Enchantment spells.

Undead
Class Skill: Knowledge (religion).
Bonus Feats: (same as Beta).
Energy Type: Cold.
Favored Spells: Necromancy spells.

Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, a sorcerer may select any one of his bloodline's listed bonus feats whose prerequisites he meets. He selects an additional such feat as a bonus feat on 5th level, 11th level, and 17th level.

Energy Resistance (Su): Starting at 3rd level, a sorcerer gains resist 5 against the energy type associated with his bloodline. This increases to resist 10 at 9th level and resist 20 at 15th level.

Eschew Vocalization (Ex): Starting at 7th level, the sorcerer can cast any of the favored spells of his bloodline with no verbal components. He casts other spells normally.

Eschew Gestures (Ex): Starting at 13th level, the sorcerer can cast any of the favored spells of his bloodline with no somatic components. He casts other spells normally.

Eschew Costly Materials (Ex): Starting at 19th level, the sorcerer can cast any of the favored spells of his bloodline with costly material components costing 10,000 gp less than normal (minimum cost of 0 gp, at which point the spell has no material component). He casts other spells normally.

Energy Immunity (Su): At 20th level, a sorcerer gains immunity to the energy type associated with his bloodline.

[Set]

Epic Meepo wrote:

If we want bloodlines powers that directly affect casting, what about standardizing bloodlines by changing the sorcerer thusly:

Table: The Sorcerer
Level - Special
1st - Bloodline, cantrips, eschew materials
2nd - Bonus feat
3rd - Energy resistance 5
5th - Bonus feat
7th - Eschew vocalization
9th - Energy resistance 10
11th - Bonus feat
13th - Eschew gestures
15th - Energy resistance 20
17th - Bonus feat
19th - Eschew costly materials
20th - Energy immunity

That's pretty darn elegant. I'm still in favor of making Bloodlines (and Wizard Specializations) into feats that any class can take (and that Bloodline Sorcerers can take some of, cherry-pick, or ignore, at their discretion, and giving Sorcerers Wizard-like bonus feats to buy these Bloodline Feats with), but this is just sleek and cleanly-built, and I'm a big fan of consistent across-the-board stuff like this.

[Michael Johnston]

Set wrote:

A variation on this that might work for several bloodlines would be to have spellcasting by the sorcerer provide them with an infusion of life-energy, either from their draconic heritage or fiendish reinforcement or celestial succor, allowing them to heal 1 hp / spell level cast (and gaining any excess as temporary bonus hit points for one hour, but not stacking, with only the most powerful effect taking hold).

So a Celestial Sorcerer might gain 3 temporary hit points if casting a Fireball at full health, but no additional hit points if he then cast another spell of 3rd level or lower. If he's damaged and down to only 1 temporary hit point, he would bump that back up to +3 with the next Fireball.

LOVE this.

[Eric Stipe]

An other idea is that the spells are changed because of your bloodline, the dm did this in our current camp.

ie. this spell from lords of madness
Arms of Plenty
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 3
casting time: 1 standard action
Range: touch
Target: one creature
Duration: 1 round/level
blah, blah, blah, gain extra arms. (i cut it short for reading ease)
Special: Sorcerers with the aberration bloodline increase the duration to 1 minute/level.

[Eric Stipe]

Epic Meepo wrote:

If we want bloodlines powers that directly affect casting, what about standardizing bloodlines by changing the sorcerer thusly:

Table: The Sorcerer
Level - Special
1st - Bloodline, cantrips, eschew materials
2nd - Bonus feat
3rd - Energy resistance 5
5th - Bonus feat
7th - Eschew vocalization
9th - Energy resistance 10
11th - Bonus feat
13th - Eschew gestures
15th - Energy resistance 20
17th - Bonus feat
19th - Eschew costly materials
20th - Energy immunity

i like the bloodline abilities being different. it adds flavor.