I'm confused, the benefits of taking sorcerer levels only apply when taking sorcerer levels, if you say prestige out of sorcerer you don't get the class features (you may or may not continue getting spell casting).
My wife's character for example, is a 3rd level (aberrant) sorcerer 3rd level rogue, 6th level arcane trickster. Meaning she only gets the bloodline powers of a 3rd level sorcerer, but has the spell casting of a 9th level sorcerer.
There seperate things.
So what are you going at?
And again why should we limit others on how they may play? Let them min/max if they want to, it's their game too.
That's correct. But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have that spelled out more explicitly by saying "sorcerer level" instead of just "level" in the bloodline descriptions. It's sometimes difficult to tell what 'level' a rule is talking about: class level, character level, effective character level, etc.
I interpreted it as did Abraham and Meepo -- bloodline powers are a "perk" for sticking with sorcerer. This is yet another case in which Paizo needs to clarify terminology -- instead of vaguely using "level," hopefully the hardcover will, IN ALL CASES, specify "class level," "caster level," "character level," or "spell level."
What I was getting at is she doesn't get all the abilities of a sorcerer level 12, just the reach of a sorcerer level 3.
I think we are all seeing the same thing, just using different ways of discribing it.
Basically we all want it to be explicit that you only get the bloodline stuff if you keep taking sorcerer levels.
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reasonable meepo, but i think i agree with Jason... its rare to have something being given for Character Levels... just feats and extra attributes
every other thing is related to class UNLESS the class specifies it... likw the barbarian and rogue's uncanny dodge, or the casting prestigue classes that let you continue growing in your same type of magic or channel energy (onceturn undead), and even then is just this prestigue class and ONE casting class levels, no Character Levels
Actually, I think the real problem is that 99% of class features are stated something like:
"At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds."
Whereas the bloodline features stated like:
"At 20th level, your body becomes truly unnatural."
If it said "At 20th level, the sorcerer's body becomes truly unnatural", it would be clearer and more consistent.
level dipping could be an issue, I myself never thought any class ability leveled outside of the class
Perhaps bloodline powers should really start at a level beyond 1st, like 3rd level for instance.
Personally I think the 1st level bloodline and school powers already do too much to encourage class dipping. Already I have a player begging to make a Demonic or Draconic Sorcerer Paladin just to max out Charisma and get claw attacks.
I don't quite get the "max out Charisma" part; how does a level of sorcerer increase your Charisma?
As for the claws, I think they're flashy at first level, but they're not really all that amazing. ("Wow! I can do 1d6 damage twice, instead of 2d6 damage once with my greatsword!")
The one I really worry about is the Fey bloodline's Laughing Touch. As written, it works just as well vs. an orc or a pit fiend (with no save).
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Personally I think the 1st level bloodline and school powers already do too much to encourage class dipping. Already I have a player begging to make a Demonic or Draconic Sorcerer Paladin just to max out Charisma and get claw attacks.I don't quite get the "max out Charisma" part; how does a level of sorcerer increase your Charisma?
As for the claws, I think they're flashy at first level, but they're not really all that amazing. ("Wow! I can do 1d6 damage twice, instead of 2d6 damage once with my greatsword!")
The one I really worry about is the Fey bloodline's Laughing Touch. As written, it works just as well vs. an orc or a pit fiend (with no save).
It means he can pour all his ability score points into Charisma and get a big benefit out of it, not to mention never having to worry about not having a weapons.
yeah but if he doesn't keep leveling in sorcerer he's going to want to have that weapon, the claws don't start off as magical, they don't do that much damage, and if he does keep taking sorcerer level's meleeing is going to mean taking up to half the fight buffing (unless you're ignoring the duration of spells).
A sorcerer/paladin/eldritch knight (type build), can be nice, but not because of some claws. Really a paladin/monk is a much better choice for such if they just want weapons that can't be taken away.
It means he can pour all his ability score points into Charisma and get a big benefit out of it, not to mention never having to worry about not having a weapons.
I have to agree with Abraham; this isn't a problem. Anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike; Caught Off Guard; a level in monk; or any of a handful of domains, school specialization powers, or cantrips has access to weapon-like effects that can't be taken away. That's probably a third of PCs.
Your player will max out his Chr no matter what; he's playing a paladin.
He's giving up a level of paladin advancement---delaying access to abilities---so that he can gain access to something that increases his fun because it increases the story for him. This kind of behavior should be encouraged.
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It means he can pour all his ability score points into Charisma and get a big benefit out of it, not to mention never having to worry about not having a weapons.I have to agree with Abraham; this isn't a problem. Anyone with Improved Unarmed Strike; Caught Off Guard; a level in monk; or any of a handful of domains, school specialization powers, or cantrips has access to weapon-like effects that can't be taken away. That's probably a third of PCs.
Your player will max out his Chr no matter what; he's playing a paladin.
He's giving up a level of paladin advancement---delaying access to abilities---so that he can gain access to something that increases his fun because it increases the story for him. This kind of behavior should be encouraged.
He's also getting a large number of 1st level spells and Eschew Materials for that level. I guess you'd have to understand this player - believe me, he only thinks about what his character can do. I should have clarified that the character is 10th level, so it is a total dip.
Make sure he realizes that, as it's written now, the sorcerer claws require a standard action to use, so at his level he'll only get 1 attack with them, not normal attacks plus secondary attacks.
Personally I don't quite understand "why" it requires a standard attack...
Because they are natural weapons... similar to why a dragons claws don't get iterative attacks.
Make sure he realizes that, as it's written now, the sorcerer claws require a standard action to use, so at his level he'll only get 1 attack with them, not normal attacks plus secondary attacks.
Personally I don't quite understand "why" it requires a standard attack...
Actually, as written it says you need a full attack action to use two claws. It doesn't say anything about being able to use just one claw, or a claw and a weapon.
And so what if he gets a couple of cantrips and 2 first level spells usable 6~7 times per day? Honestly I can make fighters that get that, without touching the arcane classes or rouge. I'm depending on magic items, or splat book feats, but it can be done.