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Discussion of aquatic creatures is going on in several threads. James is talking about revising the rules for aquatic creatures (and maybe aquatic adventuring?), and we're also talking about what monsters should go in the Pathfinder Bestiary.
And I was thinking that maybe the majority of the aquatic critters could be pulled out of the main bestiary and given a bestiary of their own. That would free up space for more standard adventuring beasts.
So let's pretend that we're James and crew, and were going make a Aquatic Monsters Revisited book. What creatures need to go into it?
10. Tritons
My least favorite of the non-evil aquatic races, Tritons seem to serve little purpose except to engage in the rather silly act of "riding" hippocampus. I think the Triton could use the most re-imagining. Rather than make them aquatic elf mermen with two fish tails for legs, I would make them the aquatic equivalent of humans, something closer to the Aventi from Stormwrack. Cast them in the role of Atlanteans in Marvel (and DC) comics: lawful, militant, and imperialistic. The Tritons form nations under the waves. Generally thought of as "good" by surface dwellers for their ability to keep sea lanes clear and safe, they are reviled as bigoted tyrants under the waves.
9. Sea Elves
Ditch the name "Aquatic Elves" which is weirdly scientific, and go with the alternative "Sea Elves." They're the surfers, perpetually living in the moment and following the current where it takes them, living in harmony with the sea and their allies the dolphins.
8. Lacedon
In the most treacherous reaches of the sea, there are graveyards of ships. The lacedons -- born of drowned sailors -- haunt these regions like their ghoul cousins haunt necropolis.
7. Koalinth
The tritons exact huge tributes from the sea going nations. The koalinth are the reason why. Savage and vicious, but supremely clever and well organized, the koalinth (aquatic hobgoblins) are pirates who strike from under the sea and send ships into the depths. They are kept in check primarily by the Triton armies, who scour the sea for their strongholds and destroy them.
6. Merrow
Dumb savages beasts, merrow are like sharks but meaner and dumber. Merrow follow vast circular routes, moving from feeding ground to feeding ground. Aquatic elves kill them on sight, and they avoid triton areas. They are frequently recruited by koalinth to provide muscle.
5. Merfolk
Merfolk are an obvious choice, but I'm not sure what to do with them. Something that splits the difference between the wild and carefree Sea Elves and the imperialistic Tritons. Sea farmers and city builders, they diplomacy to avoid falling under the control of the Tritons.
4. Scrag
Scrags make their home in kelp forests and sargassos, hunting in packs to take down large prey such as whales that wander to close to their hiding places. Other species avoid these dangerous waters.
3. Locathah
In the farthest reaches of the seas, locathah live as nomads, following the great schools of cod, halibut and tuna that fill the sea. But where the tritons rule, locathah are slaves, forced to perform menial labor for their triton masters.
2. Kraken
The ancient and mighty kraken control vast regions of the sea, exacting tribute from all who would live in what they know to be their seas. The kraken fills the role of dragon of the sea, ruling through fear and legend, and only occasionally rising up from their homes in the deepest trenches to remind new generations of their terrifying power.
1. Sahuagin
With the Kuo-Toa forever gone thanks to being WOTC's product identity, the Sahuagin are the perfect inheritors to the role of "Deep Ones," dwelling in the darkest pits of the sea, worshipping the kraken and things even more disturbing, and only occasionally rising up to terrorize the coasts.
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Aquatic Monsters Revisited could be a nifty idea! I would absolutely love to see some of these monsters get their own identities beyond "Aquatic X".
What book are the Koalinth from? I would've gone with the Kapoacinth, since they're from the SRD. They could almost fill the same role as your Koalinth, except for being dumber than Hobgoblins.
Your vision for Merrow raises a point I didn't want to make in my own aquatic thread since I was already at risk of being too fiddly. You describe the Merrow as sharks with long, circular migratory routes in the ocean. I always assumed Merrow were fresh-water monsters, or estuarial at most. And that's a thing D&D does, not distinguishing between Marine and Freshwater Aquatic habitats, even though those habitats are mutually exclusive and a marine creature would die a painful death in freshwater, and vice-versa. I had considered suggesting making [Water] and [Aquatic] represent the two habitats respectively, but decided against it. My point is that even if Paizo doesn't mechanically make that distinction, they need to make it in the background information.
Tritons are Outsiders. I've gone round and round with lots of different folks about Outsiders, so I won't do that here. But they need a niche indicating their otherworldliness (even a Native Outsider needs to be an outsider). Leave the Marvel Atlanteans to either a new race or give it to one of the others. My Locathah are sedentary farmers, but I could see them being Neutral imperialists - pragmatists like the Romans.
Mongoose Publishing did a bang-up job with their Slayer's Guide to Kraken, IMO, so I'd rather see something like a Sea Hag or Black Dragon get an chapter. But while on the subject of Kraken... whose bright idea was it to make 'em CR 12. Kraken, who sank ships and battled Leviathan (CR 25, by the way.) has a lower CR than a bleedin' Glabrezu? I suppose it could be argued that there's a difference between A kraken and THE Kraken, but still.
In the setting Im working on, I've been reviewing many of the classical creatures, and not always as new creatures, but maybe as organizations or specific/unique beings
One of the issues I saw was with the fact that, down to the concept, locathahs and sahuagin are all the creature of the black lagoon.
So, my idea was that the main "fishmen" are the locathah, which are composed of nomadic tribes that trade relics from ancient ruins, treasures from lost ships, corals and seafood for metalwork from coastal communities.
There is, though, a legend about a one of the Eternals, an ancient locathah by the name of Dagon, who was imprisioned on his palace under the sea thousand years ago. And, even though his horde of followers were hunted down long ago, a secret society remains. These feral fanatics are called by "civilized locathah" the 'Sahuagin', or 'Deep Ones', for they were expelled from society to live hidden in abysses in the bottom of the ocean, where they search a way to free Dagon and again rule the oceans of the world.
Theres also a more black lagoon inspired creature to another region of the world, a more "New Weird" style region alike China Mevielle's works, but thats another story ;)
Thematically, the skum may fit the deep one role better. Personally, I think the sahuagin make great "sea devils," monstrous and brutal slavers that raid shoreline villages.
This thread title, and James J.'s "Prehistoric Monsters Revisited" makes me imagine that themed monster books might be the way to go! A subscription line maybe?
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What book are the Koalinth from? I would've gone with the Kapoacinth, since they're from the SRD. They could almost fill the same role as your Koalinth, except for being dumber than Hobgoblins.
The first edition Monster Manual: they're aquatic hobgoblins, like merrow are aquatic ogres and scrags are aquatic trolls.
Your vision for Merrow raises a point I didn't want to make in my own aquatic thread since I was already at risk of being too fiddly. You describe the Merrow as sharks with long, circular migratory routes in the ocean. I always assumed Merrow were fresh-water monsters, or estuarial at most.
I think they are, but I like the idea of making them Marine creatures. You're right that this is contra-science, but I stopped worrying about science and D&D a long time ago. I mean, it's a world where darkness isn't the absence of light, and cold isn't the absence of heat. I give up trying to figure out the physics of a world where cold and dark are actual forces.
Maybe the seas are freshwater seas?
Tritons are Outsiders. I've gone round and round with lots of different folks about Outsiders, so I won't do that here. But they need a niche indicating their otherworldliness (even a Native Outsider needs to be an outsider). Leave the Marvel Atlanteans to either a new race or give it to one of the others. My Locathah are sedentary farmers, but I could see them being Neutral imperialists - pragmatists like the Romans.
Here's my thought: If you make the Locathah imperialistic, they will come off as evil. Ugly & Imperialistics = Okay to Kill in most player's mind. And Locathah aren't very scary. So they'd come off as pathetic imperials. Dangerously similiar to the dreaded Gungans from the Star Wars prequels. And nobody wants Gungans.
But to play up the outsider role of Tritons, make them an invasion force from the plane of water that have taken up permenant residence, or give them a backstory involving some god's intervention transforming them into creatures of the sea.
Mongoose Publishing did a bang-up job with their Slayer's Guide to Kraken, IMO, so I'd rather see something like a Sea Hag or Black Dragon get an chapter. But while on the subject of Kraken... whose bright idea was it to make 'em CR 12. Kraken, who sank ships and battled Leviathan (CR 25, by the way.) has a lower CR than a bleedin' Glabrezu? I suppose it could be argued that there's a difference between A kraken and THE Kraken, but still.
I'll have to check that out.
Can anyone suggest any other monsters that should go in this?
And yes, THEMED monster books would be AWESOME.
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Although I agree that themed monster book would be awesome. I think the underwater theme deserves more - a monster book can't do the underwater races justice, since their cultures and ecologies should be very different from above water cultures while still maintaining nations / realms of their own. I'd love to see a book like "Sea of Fallen Stars" detailing some of those nations "pathfinder style" (I'd settle for a pathfinder companion book although in combination with a monster book and some adventures, though ;) )
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10. Tritons
9. Sea Elves
8. Lacedon
7. Koalinth
6. Merrow
5. Merfolk
4. Scrag
3. Locathah
2. Kraken
1. Sahuagin
The original MM was chock-full of 'X, but Aquatic' beasties, such as the Koalinth and Merrow and Scrag and Lacedon and Aquatic Gargoyles and Aquatic Umber Hulks, which have gotten little or no use.
All of them are wide open for development, but, frankly, they are just as wide open to be ignored, as they have been for decades.
I don't like Tritons at all. Never have. The Merfolk should kill them and take their stuff, and I don't even like the Merfolk much! (I vastly prefer Selkies.) Merrow, Scrags and Lacedons have rarely been presented as anything but 'X, but Aquatic,' and I'm not sure any of them would need any development beyond that, personally.
Kraken, I would love to see developed, and perhaps even elder Kraken (or even undead Kraken with Vampiric or Lich traits and levels of Cleric or Sorcerer), who dwell in the deepest trenches and to whom the Kraken that everyone sees are mere agents in the upper oceans!
Sahuagin, I would love to see developed (with a new non-Sekolah focus, they may be tied to the Kraken, being the 'deep ones' to these 'elder evils of the depths').
Sea Elves, I'd love to see developed, and be more of a coastal / reef-dwelling society, leaving the lightless depths to the Sahuagin and Kraken.
While I like the idea of Aquatic Hobgoblins, I'm at a loss to think of them ever being used, and would rather just have the Sahuagin remain the imperialistic lawful kingdom-under-the-sea types.
Locathah have always been 'meh,' to me. I'd be pretty comfortable with just making them a non-evil group of Sahuagin that have degenerated in some ways (no great cities, more nomadic types) and escaped the clutches of evil in other ways (no demon/devil worship, more peaceful sorts).
Aquatic Umber Hulks and Aquatic Gargoyles always struck me as odd. While I could understand, particularly in a world with an Atlantic-analogue, with a great kingdom sunken beneath the waves, the idea of stone Gargoyles existing in the undersea ruins, they never seemed relevant in any of the standard D&D worlds. Somewhat ironically, they seem to have more potential in Golarion, with it's sunken ruins, and patron demon lord of ruins and Gargoyles! Aquatic Umber Hulks? I got nothin.' Aquatic Purple Worms, too!
The other 'old-school' aquatic races, such as Storm Giants and Morkoth, might be too 'niche' to even consider.
I would love for Paizo to do an "Aquatic Adventures" book: not just revisiting monsters, but providing supplemental rules, etc.
Re: Tritons, I know it's often been done (Medusa, Gorgon, etc.), but I still extremely dislike stealing the name of a mythological creature and applying it to a newly-minted mundane race. If tritons are Outsiders and are to remain Greek-mythology-like, them being a race of LN imprialists is right out the window, as it should be IMHO. Frankly, the only undersea imperialists we really need are the saughaugin, and if they're not OGL, a new race to take their place would be good.
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All of them are wide open for development, but, frankly, they are just as wide open to be ignored, as they have been for decades.
It's here that I sometimes bewail the fact that RPG companies don't make enough money to do some decent market research. I think wide open to be developed is a great opportunity to ignore stuff that is "overplayed" or too associated with the competition. Judging from the fact that just putting a drow on the cover of Dragon or Dungeon had the same effect as putting a Gorilla on the cover of a Silver Age comic book, I might be in the minority for wanting something fresh and original.
I think that Kapoacinth getting "they're gargoyles... but aquatic!" in the SRD is a FABULOUS opportunity to create something uniquely Paizo and in 30 years get some damned kid complaining about how they're overplayed. Same with Koalinth and whatever the Aquatic Umber Hulks were called. Heck, I think focusing ANY attention on doing underwater well is going to be uniquely Paizo, as I can't think of any companies that have devoted that much page count to it.
But, are the Kapoacinth necessary for a book that approaches the subject from, "You're mostly land-based, but sometimes there's all this water and your DM wants to make use of the Armor Penalties." which is where most games are coming from? Absolutely not. Water Weirds and other elementals are more appropriate for Dungeon-Based Aquatic sourcebooks.
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Frankly, the only undersea imperialists we really need are the saughaugin, and if they're not OGL, a new race to take their place would be good.
Sahuagin are a bit like Wonder Woman. They were created by a very business savvy creator, with very particular ideas about what rights creating IP entails, who ensure (or made DAMNED sure their estate ensured) that their creations get treated the way they want.
Sahuagin are OGL now and forever. Thank you, Steve Marsh. And thank you for creating most of our other classic aquatic monsters!
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Re: Tritons, I know it's often been done (Medusa, Gorgon, etc.), but I still extremely dislike stealing the name of a mythological creature and applying it to a newly-minted mundane race. If tritons are Outsiders and are to remain Greek-mythology-like, them being a race of LN imprialists is right out the window, as it should be IMHO. Frankly, the only undersea imperialists we really need are the saughaugin, and if they're not OGL, a new race to take their place would be good.
Heh, sorry Kirth, I think that genie (misappropriated mythological names) got out of the bottle a long, long time ago and isn't going back in.
The problem with the sahuagin as Atlanteans idea is that are clearly very EVIL. There needs to be a powerful, organized force for good under the waves that keeps the evil aquatic races in check, and thus allows for trade across the seas.
Realistically, if there was a race of aquatic evil creatures intent on eating humans, then humans would never develop sea trade. In the real world, sea travel is insanely dangerous WITHOUT sahuagin, with them it would be impossible.
So then it becomes a question of which of the good undersea races best fills this niche?
Aquatic Elves are a weak choice because they're more like Wild Elves than High Elves, and being dolphin-befriending surfer types just plays better to elven stereotypes. Aquatic Elves should remain playful and carefree.
Merfolk are a poor choice because we already have a lot of stereotypes about mermaids that makes them seem very peaceful and gentle.
Tritons are a strong choice for three reasons: 1) as written, they suck ass and no one likes them so they are ripe for change, 2) the iconic image of the Triton as wielding weapons and riding a hippocampus is very militaristic, and 3) the name Triton itself has a similar weight and feel as the word Roman, lending itself well to things like "The Triton Empire." Triton, with it's strong similarity to the word trident, is a powerful and militaristic word.
Admittedly, statistics wise, Merfolk are the slightly better choice, and I'd be open to swapping Merfolk and Triton statistics.
Realistically, if there was a race of aquatic evil creatures intent on eating humans, then humans would never develop sea trade. In the real world, sea travel is insanely dangerous WITHOUT sahuagin, with them it would be impossible.
Well, then, make the tritons a race of sea-folk placed by some god (Triton?) who hates the sahuagin. Done. They can be made into good combatants, and remain CG instead of LN. I don't think we need comic-book "Atlanteans" as a default in D&D -- I certainly don't want them -- and people who DO want them can easily add a race called "Atlanteans" to their homebrew worlds (that new race can be detailed in a book, and left as optional).
I would love for Paizo to do an "Aquatic Adventures" book: not just revisiting monsters, but providing supplemental rules, etc.
Re: Tritons, I know it's often been done (Medusa, Gorgon, etc.), but I still extremely dislike stealing the name of a mythological creature and applying it to a newly-minted mundane race. If tritons are Outsiders and are to remain Greek-mythology-like, them being a race of LN imprialists is right out the window, as it should be IMHO. Frankly, the only undersea imperialists we really need are the saughaugin, and if they're not OGL, a new race to take their place would be good.
In greek mythology, the tritons were a group of sea gods sired by Triton, the son of Poseidon.
To draw from that, the Tritons could serve as emissaries from Gozreh.
Merfolk are a poor choice because we already have a lot of stereotypes about mermaids that makes them seem very peaceful and gentle.
This statement makes me chuckle. I cannot help but think of the legends of mermaids luring sailors to their deaths (much like the sirens did) or drowning swimmers in the water.
I wished I had seen this thread before I posted over on the Bestiary thread! I won't repost, but I will say what I am looking for in my ideal "fish monster man". Part "creature from the black lagoon", part "Shanks" (for those of you who have read any Dray Prescott books). That is, I want aquatic creatures that look more like the locathah than the sahuagin (at least, in recent illustrations), but are vicious monsters that rise up from the watery depths and raid coastal (and/or riverfront and lakeside) communities. I guess I haven't felt a strong need for undersea civilizations.
No offense, Jason, but is that the inner "D&D needs more comic-book influences" in you talking? I've played through Man Forever ;P
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'd like to address this in a round-about way. Please forgive what may sound like an off-topic post.
One: Summoned Creatures
When I DM summoned creatures, like fiendish weasels and celestial bears, I've been assuming that these are Outsider spirits, come to the material plane and cloaked in the mein of the native species. They appear as giant beetles or dire rats, not because they are beetles or rats, but because they appear in a plane where beetles and rats belong.
(That's why you can't summon a whale in a dungeon corridor. The spirit you call understands that whales don't belong there.)
There are conjurors in my campaigns who summon elemental spirits instead of celestial and infernal spirits (insert jokes about water weasels and air bears) as well, and druids Summon Nature's Allies from the Green Realm in the same way.
(The alternative, I thought, would be for the spells to teleport real animals, and I kept picturing the odd fluke of a ranger's animal companion wolf just vanishing for a few rounds, to reappear with mysterious battle wounds, smelling of a musty dungeon somewhere...)
Two: A God
Some time last year, I was playing around with the idea of a god who, instead of recruiting clerical servantss who would then summon critters, would conjure up servitors himself. They would appear, do the job other gods handle with paladins, and then vanish, sloughing off whatever material form they donned.
And, for whatever reason, I ended up thinking of this as a water god. Certain "outsider fish" would manifest, swim around for a while, investigating anything they thought curious, and then turn back into water. If they ran into something that deserved more careful attention, there's be some scouting parties sent, and then perhaps an agent or a military force, to set things right. And to return to their native realms when their tasks were complete.
And these agents and warriors would be mysterious. "Where do they come from? Where do they dwell?" Nobody knows. It's not like rangers are that good at tracking scentless swimmers after a few minutes' head-start.
Three: Getting Back On-Topic
Doesn't that sound like the tritons you're discussing?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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No offense, Jason, but is that the inner "D&D needs more comic-book influences" in you talking? I've played through Man Forever ;P
Ah, good times! Poor James, having to edit that (you should have seen it before editing). The irony is, I'm not even a big Batman fan. Actually, the adventure was originally titled "Chauve-Souris, Man Forever" (chauve-souris being French for "bat").
As an aside, how did you enjoy the adventure? I'd love to hear favorite (or unfavorite) parts.
As an aside, how did you enjoy the adventure? I'd love to hear favorite (or unfavorite) parts.
As this is off-topic,
The other half of the party really enjoyed the social interaction stuff at the bar in town, trying to calm the mob against the disguised hag. Great stuff.
Another fun part was that one of the PCs was a Savage Species vampire; when we met Bruce Wayne, she kept whispering, "I'm telling you idiots, that guy is no vampire!"
P.S. Ettin werebats are just plain cool.
Disliked: The hags' lair was a bit too combat-heavy... more berserks? Yawn! It was all we could do to get through it. And as greedy players, we were miffed that the most dangerous potential combat (the mobs at the end) was so hard to deal with using Diplomacy, and netted so few XP -- we failed the social checks, and ended up with what must have been like an EL 20 fight (near TPK) for which we received no experience.
The Batman references were pretty easy to tune out, BTW; I never felt like they were an intrusion at all.
I don't think we need comic-book "Atlanteans" as a default in D&D -- I certainly don't want themWe have them in Golarion. They're called Azlanti, they have an aquatic off-shoot mentioned in several products, and their appearance is explicitly based on Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner.
Blech. I still don't want 'em. For some reason, I really have no interest in a race of Incredible Hulks, or green power rings and invisible jets as magic items, or a template for celestials from Krypton, or a race of Aqua-Mans fighting the sahaugin. If we wanted that kind of stuff, we'd play Marvel Superheroes.
P.S. But if there already is such a race, why make tritons their identical clones? That makes no sense at all. I'd rather accept the Azlanteans, and keep the tritons more like, well, tritons.
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I'd like to address this in a round-about way. Please forgive what may sound like an off-topic post.
One: Summoned Creatures
When I DM summoned creatures, like fiendish weasels and celestial bears, I've been assuming that these are Outsider spirits, come to the material plane and cloaked in the mein of the native species. They appear as giant beetles or dire rats, not because they are beetles or rats, but because they appear in a plane where beetles and rats belong.
Love this idea. The Summoned critter is energy from whatever planes (and not even a *specific* plane, which is why creatures can be 'fiendish' and have traits that don't precisely match up with 'infernal' or 'abyssal' or 'daemonic') that assumes the form of a creature that fits the summoner's preconceptions. There may be no 'fiendish weasels' anywhere in the lower planes, but a Wizard or Cleric can certainly summon up a fiendish spirit in the form of a weasel.
For Druids, I'd go with having the 'nature's allies' be animal spirits given the form of the creature they once were (or could be, for a spirit of a *potential* animal that has not yet been born).
It would be fun to have a Cleric of your 'summoning god' who worked like the God of certain Kabbalistic notions, not creating any one thing or force, but creating an angel that then created that thing. Each individual spell of such a priest would represent an entity, not just a 'spell.' Protection from Evil would manifest as tiny forces that attempt to repel incoming attacks and whisper words of encouragement to prevent mind control. A Cure Light Wounds would conjure up a small creature that tends to the wound with fantastic speed and ability, perhaps an arachnoid 'weaver' that leaves the treated wound covered with a bandage of pure white silk. A Bull's Strength might appear as a larger spectral figure that overlays the recipient, and pushes her blade to strike with more force as she brings it around. The Verbal components would tend to include not just invocations of the spirit-servants of their god, but also words of gratitude for the favor they have been called to perform, while the Material components may represent sacrifices to those small creatures.
3.5e really could have used a few more seafaring supplements, such as "Races of Water", "The Hydronomicon", "Complete Aquan", and "Waterscape", to compliment Stormwrack. Granted, I've been running undersea D&D campaigns since 1998, so I'm biased.
I always assumed Merrow were fresh-water monsters, or estuarial at most. And that's a thing D&D does, not distinguishing between Marine and Freshwater Aquatic habitats, even though those habitats are mutually exclusive and a marine creature would die a painful death in freshwater, and vice-versa... Mongoose Publishing did a bang-up job with their Slayer's Guide to Kraken, IMO, so I'd rather see something like a Sea Hag...
I kept merrow as brackish water beasties, which mate with shellycoats to produce sea hags. I did create marine merrow as well; merrow mages, ala ogre mage. As for a Slayer's Guide to Sea Hags, I am working on something similar for the shellycoat; in D&D terms a greenhag that spends most of her time in the water.
So, my idea was that the main "fishmen" are the locathah, which are composed of nomadic tribes that trade relics from ancient ruins, treasures from lost ships, corals and seafood for metalwork from coastal communities.
In my games, the locathah bear markings similar to the larger angelfish; queen, majestic, imperator, regal, etc. and are thus fit into a caste system. To complicate matters, I also may them hermaphroditic and capable of siring a half-breed with humans.
While I like the idea of Aquatic Hobgoblins, I'm at a loss to think of them ever being used, and would rather just have the Sahuagin remain the imperialistic lawful kingdom-under-the-sea types...Aquatic Umber Hulks and Aquatic Gargoyles always struck me as odd. While I could understand, particularly in a world with an Atlantic-analogue,...
I went further, adding the krana (sea orc), blinogo (sea goblin, iblishi (sea kobold), and kolocanth (sea bugbear), to name a few. Each was inspired by a particular sea creature.
... I still extremely dislike stealing the name of a mythological creature and applying it to a newly-minted mundane race.
So much for my oceanids, then. ;) They are daughters of tritons and salt hags. Salt hags, in turn, are the daughters of night hags and sea elves.
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How can one have a thread about aquatic creatures without mentioning aboleths once!?
Because Aboleths aren't aquatic creatures like Orca or Sahuagin. They're horrible alien things that just happen to also be aquatic. There's nothing especially "wrong" with them in terms of how they interact with the Subtype.
Besides, Aboleths belong to a book of ancient evils and aliens monsters.
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How can one have a thread about aquatic creatures without mentioning aboleths once!? They're going to come for you!!!
I was looking at creatures that live in the Ocean/Sea, not just creatures that live in the water. Aboleths are something I associate with Underdark seas, and I would expect to see them in a Darklands Monsters Revisted book.
How can one have a thread about aquatic creatures without mentioning aboleths once!? They're going to come for you!!!I was looking at creatures that live in the Ocean/Sea, not just creatures that live in the water. Aboleths are something I associate with Underdark seas, and I would expect to see them in a Darklands Monsters Revisted book.
The same with the [unavailable] Kuo-toa and Skum. I guess that was on the other copy of this thread, though.
I don't think we need comic-book "Atlanteans" as a default in D&D -- I certainly don't want themWe have them in Golarion. They're called Azlanti, they have an aquatic off-shoot mentioned in several products, and their appearance is explicitly based on Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner.
I was looking at the Low Azlanti/gill men in the Campaign Setting, and I wasn't getting this vibe from them. Are you getting info from other sources I haven't seen?
If you want something strange, for your gill-men, I once devised the Opinaku, a hybrid offspring of sea elves and human weresharks, or perhaps my Garibaldi, golden-scaled offspring of locathah and human.