The last few days have made it perfectly clear to me that 4E players truly have no place on Paizo's boards (in fact, I would strongly encourage the removal of this board in particular, it serves no purpose I can discern). I've tried logic, I've tried appealing to people's better nature, I've even tried turning the other cheek. Unfortunately, in a world without consequences, some people lack the character to behave responsibly. So I'm doing what I probably should have had the wisdom to do earlier:
I'm moving on.
So yay! Another former Paizo customer. Obviously the Pathfinder/4E situation was a factor, but I can say without a doubt that the continuing hostility in this community, along with Paizo's failure to even try to put a stop to it, has made my decision to send my dollars to the FLGS instead a no-brainer. In addition, the lingering goodwill that prompted me to point folks looking for an alternative to 4E in Paizo's direction is no more. I leave spinning that into an advantage for Paizo as a exercise for the interested (and creative).
But all is not lost: I have a good chunk of Paizo material in a box. Rather than sell it or trade it in, I'd prefer it go to community folks. Yes, even the ones I dislike. But I have zero desire to play distribution center. So I need a well-established community member (read: way more posts than me) to step up and distribute this stuff. I'm thinking of the several thousand post variety with whom I've spoken in the past. So, if you're willing, please post here. I'll pick someone and send my Paizo stuff free of charge for someone with more patience to distribute as they see fit.
I have one last request. I don't want this thread to turn into a war. Nor do I want to deal with accusations of being a crybaby. So please: Don't respond unless you're offering to play Santa, and limit your comment to said offer. Seriously. Thanks!
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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I would officially take your donation as prizes to be given away at PaizoCon II in April 2009. We had lots of loot given away last time...stuff from Paizo, KQ, Daigle, Lilith. All were very appreciative!
If you are keen on having your items distributed amongst Paizo fans, then we can help with that for sure.
But, if I had my druthers, I would have you keep it all and continue playing what you want and enjoy.
Tim
I would officially take your donation as prizes to be given away at PaizoCon II in April 2009. We had lots of loot given away last time...stuff from Paizo, KQ, Daigle, Lilith. All were very appreciative!
If you are keen on having your items distributed amongst Paizo fans, then we can help with that for sure.
But, if I had my druthers, I would have you keep it all and continue playing what you want and enjoy.
Tim
Some of the stuff is a little rough condition-wise (I can be hard on RPG books); I'm not sure they qualify as prizes. That said, if someone who meets my "high post count/know" criteria will vouch for you, I will send it. (no offense; I just don't "know" you).
I would officially take your donation as prizes to be given away at PaizoCon II in April 2009. We had lots of loot given away last time...stuff from Paizo, KQ, Daigle, Lilith. All were very appreciative!
If you are keen on having your items distributed amongst Paizo fans, then we can help with that for sure.
But, if I had my druthers, I would have you keep it all and continue playing what you want and enjoy.
Tim
Some of the stuff is a little rough condition-wise (I can be hard on RPG ooks); I'm not sure they qualify as prizes. That said, if someone who meets my "high post count/know" criteria will vouch for you, I will send it. (no offense; I just don't "know" you).
Bugleyman, if you're serious, may I suggest donating it to our men and women in the armed forces overseas. I'm sure they would love to have new roleplaying material to take their minds off things.
bugleyman, Timitius is a scholar and a gentlemen - I will vouch for him (providing that my post count is high enough for your standards).
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Some of the stuff is a little rough condition-wise (I can be hard on RPG ooks); I'm not sure they qualify as prizes. That said, if someone who meets my "high post count/know" criteria will vouch for you, I will send it. (no offense; I just don't "know" you).
Timitius is the organizer for the PaizoCon gatherings. I'm assuming he would put the material in the door prize pile.
bugleyman, Timitius is a scholar and a gentlemen - I will vouch for him (providing that my post count is high enough for your standards).
One cookie is worth many many posts.
Fare well in wherever you go and what games you play, Bugleyman.
Wish I had been able to derail those threads... :(
Alas the smurf was not sufficiently with me.
When you leave, the terrorist win. Don’t make George cry.
bugleyman, Timitius is a scholar and a gentlemen - I will vouch for him (providing that my post count is high enough for your standards).
Actually, I know you Lilith. You've been around longer than I have, and I even saw you at Gencon. Though, not being a DM there, I had to be satisfied with virtual cookies ;-). I didn't want to fixate on post count, but it was the easiest shorthand I had available.
So, Timitius: It looks like you're our winner. Where would you like the material sent?
I would officially take your donation as prizes to be given away at PaizoCon II in April 2009. We had lots of loot given away last time...stuff from Paizo, KQ, Daigle, Lilith. All were very appreciative!
If you are keen on having your items distributed amongst Paizo fans, then we can help with that for sure.
But, if I had my druthers, I would have you keep it all and continue playing what you want and enjoy.
Tim
Some of the stuff is a little rough condition-wise (I can be hard on RPG ooks); I'm not sure they qualify as prizes. That said, if someone who meets my "high post count/know" criteria will vouch for you, I will send it. (no offense; I just don't "know" you).
Bugleyman, if you're serious, may I suggest donating it to our men and women in the armed forces overseas. I'm sure they would love to have new roleplaying material to take their minds off things.
Nothing against the folks in uniform, but I've already committed the material.
Creative Director
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Yeah; Tim's a buddy of mine and he's 100% on the up and up. Don't worry about shenanigans! :-)
AND: Sorry to see ya go! Come back in six months to peek in the boards if you want; hopefully by then the "edition wars" will have died down and things will be back to normal... <crosses fingers>
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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bugleyman, Timitius is a scholar and a gentlemen - I will vouch for him (providing that my post count is high enough for your standards).Actually, I know you Lilith. You've been around longer than I have, and I even saw you at Gencon. Though, not being a DM there, I had to be satisfied with virtual cookies ;-). I didn't want to fixate on post count, but it was the easiest shorthand I had available.
So, Timitius: It looks like you're our winner. Where would you like the material sent?
Good God, scholar AND a gentleman?? Egads and crikey! (That's what gentlemen say, right?)
Thanks for the vouches, folks. And thank you bugleyman for the donation...I will make sure they go to needy roleplayers. ;-)
Actually, Pygon is correct...they will likely be given away in a lottery-style drawing...maybe a special "bugelyman lottery"! In any case, I will be absolutely sure that a special recognition is given, to convey MY appreciation to you. I'm just sorry to see you leave, as I can relate to how you feel.
Please email me at timitius(at)hotmail(dot)com and I'll sent along my contact info.
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Yeah; Tim's a buddy of mine and he's 100% on the up and up. Don't worry about shenanigans! :-)
AND: Sorry to see ya go! Come back in six months to peek in the boards if you want; hopefully by then the "edition wars" will have died down and things will be back to normal... <crosses fingers>
And lately, the edition wars have been nothing compared to the holy war between role-players and optimizers.
Yeah; Tim's a buddy of mine and he's 100% on the up and up. Don't worry about shenanigans! :-)
AND: Sorry to see ya go! Come back in six months to peek in the boards if you want; hopefully by then the "edition wars" will have died down and things will be back to normal... <crosses fingers>
I hadn't really paid much attention to the 4e boards here, nor will I until I need to peruse stuff about the game.
To the OP: 'tis sad to see you depart. Perhaps Sir Jacobs will be proven correct and the "edition wars" ~ such as they are ~ will have long since taken a permanent dirt nap.
Enjoy your travels !
I myself would say Tim or the armed forces. sorry to see ya go the edition wars are worse elsewhere I am afraid, happy gaming where ever you end up.
bugleyman, Timitius is a scholar and a gentlemen - I will vouch for him (providing that my post count is high enough for your standards).Actually, I know you Lilith. You've been around longer than I have, and I even saw you at Gencon. Though, not being a DM there, I had to be satisfied with virtual cookies ;-). I didn't want to fixate on post count, but it was the easiest shorthand I had available.
So, Timitius: It looks like you're our winner. Where would you like the material sent?
Good God, scholar AND a gentleman?? Egads and crikey! (That's what gentlemen say, right?)
Thanks for the vouches, folks. And thank you bugleyman for the donation...I will make sure they go to needy roleplayers. ;-)
Actually, Pygon is correct...they will likely be given away in a lottery-style drawing...maybe a special "bugelyman lottery"! In any case, I will be absolutely sure that a special recognition is given, to convey MY appreciation to you. I'm just sorry to see you leave, as I can relate to how you feel.
Please email me at timitius(at)hotmail(dot)com and I'll sent along my contact info.
Email sent. Holler if you haven't seen it.
Excellent idea!
Bugleyman, if you're serious, may I suggest donating it to our men and women in the armed forces overseas. I'm sure they would love to have new roleplaying material to take their minds off things.
Take care bugleyman. Not all of us are bad. Good luck where ever you go and you will always be welcome back here. ~shrugs and smiles~ Sometimes arguments between people that care about something can be the worse. And sometimes there are people that just have no life so they try to take down everyone else. Please come back sometime, if only to say hello and I am still alive. Take care and may life be good to you.
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Unacceptable sir that you've been driven away, however I understand your choice. I find myself returning to these boards less frequently which is sad because as a result I buy less stuff from Paizo and hence recommend them less.
All the arguments here are doing are costing Paizo customers, and in the long run I think the anti-4E crowd who have begrudged us fans this board will reap what they sow.
Fair winds and safe harbour.
Unacceptable sir that you've been driven away, however I understand your choice. I find myself returning to these boards less frequently which is sad because as a result I buy less stuff from Paizo and hence recommend them less.
Same. I am a recent subscriber but I find less infighting on the 4e threads elsewhere like rpg.net, i like threads where we talk about the game itself. i play all systems, but until the edition wars are over, i won't be visiting as often as long as i feel uncomfortable here.
Same. I am a recent subscriber but I find less infighting on the 4e threads elsewhere like rpg.net, i like threads where we talk about the game itself. i play all systems, but until the edition wars are over, i won't be visiting as often as long as i feel uncomfortable here.Unacceptable sir that you've been driven away, however I understand your choice. I find myself returning to these boards less frequently which is sad because as a result I buy less stuff from Paizo and hence recommend them less.
See this has been my experience as well the fighting is minor skirmish here, shots fired in the dark there. nothing to really worry over at all and the amazing thing is this board really isn't monitored.
Out of curiosity...just where can you go internet-wise where the posters aren't flaming eachother over 4E/3.5/Pathfinder?
'Cause I haven't found any.
Stick around. Some balls are just gettin' a rolling around here. I think you should hold out for Clark to get a revised GSL and you might just see some 4E love from Paizo folks.
I don't like 4E and I hate how WotC handled the transition but I don't feel it's right to flame those who like the new version.
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Out of curiosity...just where can you go internet-wise where the posters aren't flaming eachother over 4E/3.5/Pathfinder?
'Cause I haven't found any.
Stick around. Some balls are just gettin' a rolling around here. I think you should hold out for Clark to get a revised GSL and you might just see some 4E love from Paizo folks.
I don't like 4E and I hate how WotC handled the transition but I don't feel it's right to flame those who like the new version.
Whilst there is some contention and argument on RPGnet I have never seen it rise to the ridiculous levels we see here.
People are going to have opinions and get passionate about them. However on sites like RPGnet they manage to contain them (usually) to the appropriate threads and not derail every 3.5/4e topic that they enter.
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People are going to have opinions and get passionate about them. However on sites like RPGnet they manage to contain them (usually) to the appropriate threads and not derail every 3.5/4e topic that they enter.
Speaking of rpg.net, there's a good-sized thread on how many former Paizo subscribers/supporters are dropping/discussing Paizo and its products due to their disgust with all the anti-4E hate here. Wonder if it's true about Sebastian (page 11).
that thread was kinda amusing as thats a big pro-4e places now days. The difference is this is kinda tame for an unmodded board. try wotc if ya want hostile. Both 3.5 and 4e crusaders do need to back off and stop having open war. Really it has calmed down a big amount over here anyhow
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that thread was kinda amusing as thats a big pro-4e places now days. The difference is this is kinda tame for an unmodded board. try wotc if ya want hostile. Both 3.5 and 4e crusaders do need to back off and stop having open war. Really it has calmed down a big amount over here anyhow
If by calmed down you mean slowly dying due to 4E fans giving up on these boards due to incessant thread crapping then yes it's calmed down a lot.
I don't know what ya want. either they have a 4e board or they don't. there is plenty of 4e talk going on with no slamming. stuff like the red dragon crap was meant to do what it did,no more no less.
let me list 3 places I stopped going to or slowed down because of strong anti-3e bashing
rpgnet
wotc
enworld
now I'll give ya the first has stopped. the other too not so much. THE flame war here is not that bad you got maybe 8 people on both sides that cant let it go. the 3 sites above have heavy monitoring and 2 of em have a way of looking the other way on 3e bashing.
Not starting flames or anything but some folks just have to take the bait and then they start flaming them blame everyone else because there was flaming.
That said I do wish there was an ignore using function. That would be super sweet so I can read threads and not have to read the pro/anti crusaders crap
that thread was kinda amusing as thats a big pro-4e places now days. The difference is this is kinda tame for an unmodded board. try wotc if ya want hostile. Both 3.5 and 4e crusaders do need to back off and stop having open war. Really it has calmed down a big amount over here anyhowIf by calmed down you mean slowly dying due to 4E fans giving up on these boards due to incessant thread crapping then yes it's calmed down a lot.
I don't think it's slowly dying but there are still threads being hit with anti 4E attitude and the anti 4E people need to back off.
LOOK WE GET IT...YOU DON'T LIKE 4E, STOP TRYING TO CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE.
I personally have heard plenty of faults pointed out in 3rd and 4th but I'll play 3rd ed games the way I want to and likewise with 4th. I also find it ridiculous because after investing a considerable amount of resources into 4E, WOTC aren't going to 'DUMP' 4E no matter how much some people whine.
In short, if you don't like 4E don't throw trash into the 4E threads and likewise on 3E and Pathfinder threads. I dislike most things to do with GamesWorkshop, the ever changing rules, the price increases due to tin prices going up(how this causes the book prices to increase I'll never know?) but I don't go onto GW forum and slate the game nor discourage players.
Hopefully the 4E fans will just ignor slights and discuss items like adults.
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I don't know what ya want. either they have a 4e board or they don't. there is plenty of 4e talk going on with no slamming. stuff like the red dragon crap was meant to do what it did,no more no less.
let me list 3 places I stopped going to or slowed down because of strong anti-3e bashing
rpgnet
wotc
enworldnow I'll give ya the first has stopped. the other too not so much. THE flame war here is not that bad you got maybe 8 people on both sides that cant let it go. the 3 sites above have heavy monitoring and 2 of em have a way of looking the other way on 3e bashing.
Not starting flames or anything but some folks just have to take the bait and then they start flaming them blame everyone else because there was flaming.
That said I do wish there was an ignore using function. That would be super sweet so I can read threads and not have to read the pro/anti crusaders crap
In fairness I don't witness the 3E thread crapping and anti-ness(?) because I don't go into those threads. Do unto others and all that crap.
Adequate moderation would suit me. I don't want 3.x fans to leave this board or 4e fans to leave the 3rd boards. We should be able to contribute to each others enjoyment not detract.
I don't know what ya want. either they have a 4e board or they don't. there is plenty of 4e talk going on with no slamming. stuff like the red dragon crap was meant to do what it did,no more no less.
let me list 3 places I stopped going to or slowed down because of strong anti-3e bashing
rpgnet
wotc
enworldnow I'll give ya the first has stopped. the other too not so much. THE flame war here is not that bad you got maybe 8 people on both sides that cant let it go. the 3 sites above have heavy monitoring and 2 of em have a way of looking the other way on 3e bashing.
Not starting flames or anything but some folks just have to take the bait and then they start flaming them blame everyone else because there was flaming.
That said I do wish there was an ignore using function. That would be super sweet so I can read threads and not have to read the pro/anti crusaders crap
In fairness I don't witness the 3E thread crapping and anti-ness(?) because I don't go into those threads. Do unto others and all that crap.
Adequate moderation would suit me. I don't want 3.x fans to leave this board or 4e fans to leave the 3rd boards. We should be able to contribute to each others enjoyment not detract.
Likewise I don't want 3rd Ed fans or 4E Ed fans leaving the opposite boards but I DO want ANTI 3rd Ed fans and ANTI 4Ed fans to wind their necks in. They have argued their points OVER AND OVER, way too much. Again an old saying, 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!!'.
Constructive suggestions, houserules are worth hearing, aggressive, slights and general bad attitude are not.
I have never seen 3.5 etc fans leave a board or whatever cause someone disagreed with them and that is what MOST are doing. All the "crapping" I have seen is just disagreement in a respectful manner. Yes there are some that are hostile but 4e fans seem rather... Sensitive to put it mildly. If you want a nice safe place to chat about 4e the WoTC boards are your place. On those boards anyone who doesn't feel 4e is THE BEST they get flamed, Accused of all sorts of things and sent hateful pm's which the Mod's just ignore when you report them.
You could always ignore those posting things you don't like. I tend to do that especially since its tough to read what someone says when you have no respect for there opinion.
If I left message boards everytime someone did things I didn't like Id not have a computer for the most part.
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I have never seen 3.5 etc fans leave a board or whatever cause someone disagreed with them and that is what MOST are doing. All the "crapping" I have seen is just disagreement in a respectful manner. Yes there are some that are hostile but 4e fans seem rather... Sensitive to put it mildly. If you want a nice safe place to chat about 4e the WoTC boards are your place. On those boards anyone who doesn't feel 4e is THE BEST they get flamed, Accused of all sorts of things and sent hateful pm's which the Mod's just ignore when you report them.
You could always ignore those posting things you don't like. I tend to do that especially since its tough to read what someone says when you have no respect for there opinion.
If I left message boards everytime someone did things I didn't like Id not have a computer for the most part.
Why did you have to bring this back?
lol this will never die......it does amuse me after a while however
My apologies. I check the boards on occasion so most stuff appears new to me lol!
Bugleyman,
I never knew you, but then again my post count is low ;>
I would like to say: keep playing. But you gave away all your cool stuff, so I don't know if it is a possibility ;>
My apologies. I check the boards on occasion so most stuff appears new to me lol!
don't worry with it. I was sorry to see him go but no one ran him off but himself.
Ironically, although a local Seattle-ite, I’ll be missing PaizoCon next year because I’ll be on a military deployment. I just double missed out on free stuff.
Honestly, though, I think it’s pretty noble of Paizo to even have a 4e section on their forums at all . I actually feel kind of guilty posting here since realizing that Pathfinder RPG and Golarion aren’t for me. Still, I think the posters and staff here are insightful and creative enough that I appreciate being able to draw on them for ideas, even if I’m only supporting Paizo financially by ordering other company’s stuff through their online store.
Ironically, although a local Seattle-ite, I’ll be missing PaizoCon next year because I’ll be on a military deployment. I just double missed out on free stuff.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooOOOooo! You gonna miss PaizoCon??? :O But, thank you for serving, and be safe. *hugs, cookies*
Ironically, although a local Seattle-ite, I’ll be missing PaizoCon next year because I’ll be on a military deployment. I just double missed out on free stuff.
would also like to say thank you for your service and you stay safe over there
would also like to say thank you for your service and you stay safe over there
You guys are awesome but I confess I don't think I'll be in any danger. I'm a Navy journalist by trade and will mostly be doing those "winning the hearts and minds of the locals" type of coverage: you know, photographing chicken vaccinations and interviewing US Marines building schools.
At least I'll have a valid excuse this time. Last year the only reason I couldn't go was 'cause I didn't have enough gas money. Oh, there was also that event at the bookstore last December. I didn't go to that one 'cause it was on my wife's birthday. I guess that's a valid excuse too.
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would also like to say thank you for your service and you stay safe over thereYou guys are awesome but I confess I don't think I'll be in any danger. I'm a Navy journalist by trade and will mostly be doing those "winning the hearts and minds of the locals" type of coverage: you know, photographing chicken vaccinations and interviewing US Marines building schools.
navy, huh? if you get to the u.s.s. roosevelt, say hi to my brother :)
pretty much. I hate 4e, but not the guys playing and I wish em the best of luck. And I don't avoid the 4e forms just cause I don't play. Story based or setting based talk is story and setting talk . editions come and go.