photographing chicken vaccinations
At first I was thinking, "wow, no chicken left behind" "vets without borders" but then I realized you must have meant to add a pox at the end :)
Did give me a moment's pause when contemplating heading off to the KFC...
Do stay safe though. It's a crazy, chaotic world.
To those leaving , good luck. :(
I dont think Ive ever even read a thread in a Paizo 4E forum, I didnt know we had one here anyway.
At ENworld I do not post in the 4E sections, Im only in the "General" discussion forum where I see much of the same as the OP stated. Usually its the 4E fans flaming paizo for what they did or didnt do.
In my experience, Paizo isnt that bad compared to ENworld's forums.... but I say this without any knowledge of what goes on in a Paizo dedicated 4E forum.
late edit*** doh , im just posted in a dedicated Paizo 4E forum. Didnt bother to read where this thread was when I started reading it.
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Just want to acknowledge that bugleyman DID send me all his Paizo stuff.
And I mean ALL.
Frankly, I'm astounded....and saddened. Another casuality in the pointless Edition War.
As my parents (and Thumper's parents too) always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Honestly, is that so hard? (And yes, it applies to EVERYONE, regardless of your "side".)
Regarding bugleyman's collection, I will be arranging a special drawing at PaizoCon to give away his donation...probably to newbies just getting into Pathfinder, as most of the established fans have nearly all of this stuff. In my mind, we will probably have a couple of different drawings to choose from, with attendees making their choice of which one they want to be in.
Fletch, when and how long are you going to be deployed? Just curious.
Frankly, I'm astounded....and saddened. Another casuality in the pointless Edition War.
As my parents (and Thumper's parents too) always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."Honestly, is that so hard? (And yes, it applies to EVERYONE, regardless of your "side".)
Hear hear. Give up your flaming and bad attitude - just play the damn game, no matter which one it is!
Regarding bugleyman's collection, I will be arranging a special drawing at PaizoCon to give away his donation...probably to newbies just getting into Pathfinder, as most of the established fans have nearly all of this stuff. In my mind, we will probably have a couple of different drawings to choose from, with attendees making their choice of which one they want to be in.
Excellent idea, my fellow dictator. \m/
Just want to acknowledge that bugleyman DID send me all his Paizo stuff.
And I mean ALL.
Frankly, I'm astounded....and saddened. Another casuality in the pointless Edition War.
As my parents (and Thumper's parents too) always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Honestly, is that so hard? (And yes, it applies to EVERYONE, regardless of your "side".)
Regarding bugleyman's collection, I will be arranging a special drawing at PaizoCon to give away his donation...probably to newbies just getting into Pathfinder, as most of the established fans have nearly all of this stuff. In my mind, we will probably have a couple of different drawings to choose from, with attendees making their choice of which one they want to be in.
Fletch, when and how long are you going to be deployed? Just curious.
I'm sorry man but as I have stated before I have NEVER seen anything bordering on harasment etc which is the only reason someone should leave a message board etc. Like life there are things we like and don't like and if someone disagrees with you you shouldn't have a tantrum. Guess that's a harsh viewpoint but its also how things function in life. If all we receive are Kudos and pats on the back that's just as bad as seeing negative comments and or disagreements about something as wrong. "Rose Colored glasses" is also an old saying and it means someone has no idea how real life is or works... I am sorry to see him go but if that's how he handles conflict of sorts(And tame at that) then he is going to be "Leaving a lot of life's message boards as well".
I'm Sad Bugley left...I never knew him but for what he did it clears that he is a cool guy.
Its also very nice to see the support from part of the real paizo community here. You can always see the same supporting faces on these sort of threads (and a few missing for those who missed the thread). The community its amazing and I hope to see Bugley return in a few weeks and joining the OTDs, where we go to war bearing smurf hats and studded doggie collars.
Hope to see you soon Bugley!
PS: Kuddos for Timitus efforts for the PaizoCon!
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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I'm sorry man but as I have stated before I have NEVER seen anything bordering on harasment etc which is the only reason someone should leave a message board etc. Like life there are things we like and don't like and if someone disagrees with you you shouldn't have a tantrum. Guess that's a harsh viewpoint but its also how things function in life. If all we receive are Kudos and pats on the back that's just as bad as seeing negative comments and or disagreements about something as wrong. "Rose Colored glasses" is also an old saying and it means someone has no idea how real life is or works... I am sorry to see him go but if that's how he handles conflict of sorts(And tame at that) then he is going to be "Leaving a lot of life's message boards as well".
I'm not saying that we all need to be shiney happy people here, sugar-coating everything so as not to hurt anyone's feelings.
However, it is totally possible to disagree, and express that viewpoint, and still be NICE about it. It is my understanding that bugleyman left because there was no where on this board you could go to discuss 4E without SOMEONE threadjacking it to tell him how wrong he was for LIKING 4E.
It would be like discussing your favorite "Dune" novel with other Herbert fans, and then having someone standing close by interrupt to tell you all that "Frank Herbert SUCKS, man. Heinlein is SOOOOOO much better. You are all idiots for reading that crap." and then additionally finding out that said person has never even READ Frank Herbert.
Hence, my opinion that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, my father used to tell me "If you don't know what you are talking about, then you shouldn't be talking about it."
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I'm sorry man but as I have stated before I have NEVER seen anything bordering on harasment etc which is the only reason someone should leave a message board etc.
I've seen some pretty foul stuff here and there.
However, being a weary veteran of...wait...counting....5 console wars and too many stupid pointless inter-game series squabbles I have a hard time being bothered beyond the irritation that the tabletop community has the "console war" bug as bad as their videogamer counterparts.
It's like "Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks" was struck from the Akashic Records or something.
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You got it wrong Timitius. He left because he would attack people for having or expressing an opinion that he disagreed with. When this happened some others would call him out about it and he would start tossing insults which got tossed back at him. Then he decided that the argument wasn't going his way so he decided to throw a tantrum and leave. This had ZERO to do with 3E vs. 4E, this was him trying to tell others that they couldn't have an opinion(about the 4e dragon cartoon in this case) because he didn't agree that they should have that opinion and was busy belittling those who did. I called him out on his behavior and he attacked, then I responded. I should have dropped it but it irked me to allow someone to bully someone like he was. Then he threw a fit and left.
I don't play 4E but I have no problem with people who do. I do have a problem with people who belittle and browbeat others for having a contrary opinion to themselves.
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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You got it wrong Timitius. He left because he would attack people for having or expressing an opinion that he disagreed with. When this happened some others would call him out about it and he would start tossing insults which got tossed back at him. Then he decided that the argument wasn't going his way so he decided to throw a tantrum and leave....
I don't play 4E but I have no problem with people who do. I do have a problem with people who belittle and browbeat others for having a contrary opinion to themselves.
I'll admit that I wasn't keeping tabs on you and bugley and your history, so I don't know who was at fault and for how long. However, I did read the escalation threads that led up to this one. Really it was this little remark early on on the dragon cartoon thread:
"It's because 4E sucks and they know it. The writing is on the wall.
Bandit of LV"
That was the post that pushed THAT thread off the tracks. bugleyman responded in what appeared to be exasperation, and the landslide picked up speed. It thoroughly dissolved the minute you decided to start critiquing his grammar, which was a personal attack that had no bearing on the discussion.
Dude, people's typing SUCKS online. Telling me that I'm an uneducated idiot that can't spell, when in actuality I just got flustered and started typing badly is, IMHO, uncalled for (yes, I really did end that with a preposition, and I do it often).
I'm NOT going to go any further on this. My point was and is not to point fingers. It's too late for that to be anything but pointless. My point is that I am sorry that we cannot speak to each other nicely and rationally, and because of that, I am even more sorry that one of us felt the need to get rid of several hundred dollars worth of his Paizo product and leave what I think is an excellent online community. An extreme response, yes. But one that reflects the extreme feeling behind it.
Finally, consider this. He DID give all that product away to be distributed to other Paizo fans who would benefit in having it. To me, actions speak louder than words.
Finally, consider this. He DID give all that product away to be distributed to other Paizo fans who would benefit in having it. To me, actions speak louder than words.
I'll respect bugleyman for that. I cannot understand it, I will not give my stuff away because I am dissatisfied with an online community, but I do have to respect that he went through with it.
I was somewhat snarky before, but as I read somewhere else, this place is meant to facilitate the gamer lifestyle and I hope that bugleyman will continue to game. Even if it is 4e ;>
I just couldn't resist ;>
I haven't been on Paizo's boards as long as most but the only time I see negative opinions or comments about say 4e is in threads that ask for comments. If you don't want to possibly see negativity then don't start or read those threads. Simple enough, eh?
Civility is a must though in any thread.
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I basically gave up on 4E debates.
I don't support what 4E stands for, what I perceived as the motives behind it, and the way it's been brought to us by Wizards (the PR). The game system itself does have some merits, but is not what I'd call "D&D". My opinion is logical to me.
I no longer expect my views to be acknowledged in any way, shape or form, since any kind of discussion about this quickly devolves into a fight of "4vengers" vs. "anti-4E" crowds. There's enough of this crap online already. I moved on to play Pathfinder.
photographing chicken vaccinations
At first I was thinking, "wow, no chicken left behind" "vets without borders" but then I realized you must have meant to add a pox at the end :)
Did give me a moment's pause when contemplating heading off to the KFC...
Don't worry about it. KFC hasn't used actual chickens (as opposed to vat-grown parts) for years. That's why they changed their name.
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sorry to see you go Bugley. I personally think the move is unwaranted, but our opinions seem to differ. Good luck wherever you land.
It needs to be said that this thread inspired me to do a quick census of 4e threads that are on topic. None of them had been crapped on that i saw. the only threads I could find in the top 10-15 on the list right now that were showing signs of poo flinging had provocative titles that directly or obliquely referenced edition wars or hinted at comparisons/complaints about one edition or another.
So, I can only partly see this complaint about these boards as valid. Discussion on AP conversions, item design, published adventures (as well as other topics) seem to be going on without thread crapping. Perhaps people not only need to be more tolerant of each other's taste in games, but also more tolerant of opinions they disagree with. I think perception may be playing a larger role in this than many will admit.
my 2 cents.
sorry to see you go Bugley. I personally think the move is unwaranted, but our opinions seem to differ. Good luck wherever you land.
It needs to be said that this thread inspired me to do a quick census of 4e threads that are on topic. None of them had been crapped on that i saw. the only threads I could find in the top 10-15 on the list right now that were showing signs of poo flinging had provocative titles that directly or obliquely referenced edition wars or hinted at comparisons/complaints about one edition or another.
So, I can only partly see this complaint about these boards as valid. Discussion on AP conversions, item design, published adventures (as well as other topics) seem to be going on without thread crapping. Perhaps people not only need to be more tolerant of each other's taste in games, but also more tolerant of opinions they disagree with. I think perception may be playing a larger role in this than many will admit.
my 2 cents.
I agree. If it's a thread about why someone doesn't like 4e, there will be posts about not liking 4e in that thread. That's not thread capping, or trolling, that's just opinion and discussion in a thread clearly marked as being intended for that.
Just want to acknowledge that bugleyman DID send me all his Paizo stuff.
And I mean ALL.
Frankly, I'm astounded....and saddened. Another casuality in the pointless Edition War.
As my parents (and Thumper's parents too) always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."
Honestly, is that so hard? (And yes, it applies to EVERYONE, regardless of your "side".)
Regarding bugleyman's collection, I will be arranging a special drawing at PaizoCon to give away his donation...probably to newbies just getting into Pathfinder, as most of the established fans have nearly all of this stuff. In my mind, we will probably have a couple of different drawings to choose from, with attendees making their choice of which one they want to be in.
Fletch, when and how long are you going to be deployed? Just curious.
I know I'm going to be jumped on for saying this ... but to me, throwing a hissy fit, starting a thread about how you're leaving because you don't feel welcome, then actually giving away (apparently a load of) rpg stuff you've bought, all because of a spat online, to me, is totally whacko.
Seriously, you guys can say what you like, you can insult me to your heart's content ... you ain't getting my rpg collection. ;-)
I mean really, what has he gained from doing this? He's lost on every front. That's just absolutely crazy imho. I don't respect it as an action at all. That's not to say I'd stop anyone else doing so, I'd just ask them to send me all their Paizo product this time. ;-)
I know I'm going to be jumped on for saying this ... but to me, throwing a hissy fit, starting a thread about how you're leaving because you don't feel welcome, then actually giving away (apparently a load of) rpg stuff you've bought, all because of a spat online, to me, is totally whacko.
Seriously, you guys can say what you like, you can insult me to your heart's content ... you ain't getting my rpg collection. ;-)
I mean really, what has he gained from doing this? He's lost on every front. That's just absolutely crazy imho. I don't respect it as an action at all. That's not to say I'd stop anyone else doing so, I'd just ask them to send me all their Paizo product this time. ;-)
I think better for him than if he just shoved the Paizo material into a box in the back of the closet or even sell it to someone else. If he rather give them to someone else to enjoy, I think that is good. He is giving someone enjoyment out of a product he didn't want anymore.
Part of me wanted to argue with his reasoning, but there does not seem to be much point in that anymore. I would rather just treat accept his act of generosity rather than go through his post to tell him where I think he is wrong.
I know I'm going to be jumped on for saying this ... but to me, throwing a hissy fit, starting a thread about how you're leaving because you don't feel welcome, then actually giving away (apparently a load of) rpg stuff you've bought, all because of a spat online, to me, is totally whacko.
Seriously, you guys can say what you like, you can insult me to your heart's content ... you ain't getting my rpg collection. ;-)
I mean really, what has he gained from doing this? He's lost on every front. That's just absolutely crazy imho. I don't respect it as an action at all. That's not to say I'd stop anyone else doing so, I'd just ask them to send me all their Paizo product this time. ;-)
I think better for him than if he just shoved the Paizo material into a box in the back of the closet or even sell it to someone else. If he rather give them to someone else to enjoy, I think that is good. He is giving someone enjoyment out of a product he didn't want anymore.
Part of me wanted to argue with his reasoning, but there does not seem to be much point in that anymore. I would rather just treat accept his act of generosity rather than go through his post to tell him where I think he is wrong.
I don't see why he couldn't have held onto them and used them himself, even if he had decided not post here anymore?
Actually I suspect he already wasn't using the books. After all, imagine if you were in the middle of a campaign, and suddenly your GM calls a halt and gives away all the books he was using because he had a disagreement with person or people unknown online ... to me that seems so out there, it leads me to suppose the books already weren't being used and he is just making a kind of grand gesture to underline his point.
Either way, still nutty in my view to give away stuff you've bought (if you actually like it of course) because of the views of some people online.
Generous? I guess. A bit ka-ka? Definitely.
At first I was thinking, "wow, no chicken left behind" "vets without borders" but then I realized you must have meant to add a pox at the end :)
I’m a professional communicator, sir. I don’t leave things off. : ) Part of the mission is helping the locals and that includes caring for their livestock too. The next time the local terrorists go to this farm community looking for a place to hide, the farmers are going to look at their healthy chickens, their ripening rice paddies, and their brand new school and say “flake off, MILF*”.
Only they’ll probably say it in Tagalog.
I’ll be in the Philippines for the first half of 2009, but I’ll have regular and steady internet access enough that y’all probably won’t know the difference.
* Footnote:
“Arroyo demanded the MILF to surrender three rogue MILF commanders.”
and
“The MILF rejected the demands.”
I know I'm going to be jumped on for saying this ... but to me, throwing a hissy fit, starting a thread about how you're leaving because you don't feel welcome, then actually giving away (apparently a load of) rpg stuff you've bought, all because of a spat online, to me, is totally whacko.
So shines a good deed in a weary world. – Willy Wonka
but to me, throwing a hissy fit, starting a thread about how you're leaving because you don't feel welcome, then actually giving away (apparently a load of) rpg stuff you've bought, all because of a spat online, to me, is totally whacko.
Yeah, it's a little weird, but hey - as long as he's consistent, there's nothing wrong with it.
I have absolutely no doubt that - if he's not some irrational hypocrite - he no longer plays 4e and has given away all his WotC stuff as well, because the behavior on Gleemax has certainly been worse than on Paizo's boards.
So, no problems at all... if he's a consistent fellow.
Don't worry about it. KFC hasn't used actual chickens (as opposed to vat-grown parts) for years. That's why they changed their name.
photographing chicken vaccinations
At first I was thinking, "wow, no chicken left behind" "vets without borders" but then I realized you must have meant to add a pox at the end :)
Did give me a moment's pause when contemplating heading off to the KFC...
Doubtful. PITA is actually willing to give out a nice chunk of change for anyone who manages to develop this technology and make it commercially viable since 'Vat Grown Chicken' parts is essentially ethical meat.
My understanding is that KFC has used selective breeding to make chickens with vastly oversized breasts, to the point where they can't walk, and emphasized rapid growing (so they are ready for slaughter faster) but their not vat grown.
sorry to see you go Bugley. I personally think the move is unwaranted, but our opinions seem to differ. Good luck wherever you land.
It needs to be said that this thread inspired me to do a quick census of 4e threads that are on topic. None of them had been crapped on that i saw. the only threads I could find in the top 10-15 on the list right now that were showing signs of poo flinging had provocative titles that directly or obliquely referenced edition wars or hinted at comparisons/complaints about one edition or another.
So, I can only partly see this complaint about these boards as valid. Discussion on AP conversions, item design, published adventures (as well as other topics) seem to be going on without thread crapping. Perhaps people not only need to be more tolerant of each other's taste in games, but also more tolerant of opinions they disagree with. I think perception may be playing a larger role in this than many will admit.
my 2 cents.
We have good and bad days in the 4E forums. Often there is a period of peace after a really big blow up. So far its always eventually slided back but, hopefully, one of these days it won't.
but to me, throwing a hissy fit, starting a thread about how you're leaving because you don't feel welcome, then actually giving away (apparently a load of) rpg stuff you've bought, all because of a spat online, to me, is totally whacko.Yeah, it's a little weird, but hey - as long as he's consistent, there's nothing wrong with it.
I have absolutely no doubt that - if he's not some irrational hypocrite - he no longer plays 4e and has given away all his WotC stuff as well, because the behavior on Gleemax has certainly been worse than on Paizo's boards.
So, no problems at all... if he's a consistent fellow.
I don't see how some other peoples behaviour on some other board is relevant to how we are expected to conduct ourselves here. I'm certain that Gary Teeter has said pretty much the same thing.
I don't see how some other peoples behaviour on some other board is relevant to how we are expected to conduct ourselves here. I'm certain that Gary Teeter has said pretty much the same thing.
It's not. (And that's certainly not what I was referring to.)
Just want to acknowledge that bugleyman DID send me all his Paizo stuff.
Awesome... stand up guy.
Frankly, I'm astounded....and saddened. Another casuality in the pointless Edition War.
While I sympathize, I can't help but think it's a somewhat self inflicted casualty.
Regarding bugleyman's collection, I will be arranging a special drawing at PaizoCon to give away his donation...probably to newbies just getting into Pathfinder, as most of the established fans have nearly all of this stuff. In my mind, we will probably have a couple of different drawings to choose from, with attendees making their choice of which one they want to be in.
I would suggest if there is a *lot* that you break it up and give it out in smaller bunches.
Sadly... I didn't subscribe until SD so I would love to get ahold of... never mind, I feel like a vulture.
It's a shame to see you go, bud.
There have been moments, I will admit, when I've been tempted to do exactly what Bugleyman is doing. I think of myself as a fan of fantasy in general, and I have liked all editions and most spin-offs. These so called "edition wars" are getting old, though.
Bugleyman, I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do, and I hope you'll come back and chat with us again. It's rare to find a person actually interested in good manners and a sense of fair-play when roaming the vast wasteland that is the internet. You will be missed.
Yeah, it's a little weird, but hey - as long as he's consistent, there's nothing wrong with it.
I have absolutely no doubt that - if he's not some irrational hypocrite - he no longer plays 4e and has given away all his WotC stuff as well, because the behavior on Gleemax has certainly been worse than on Paizo's boards.
So, no problems at all... if he's a consistent fellow.
I don't think that this is appropriate. I highly doubt that the troubles on these forums were the only reason for his leaving. I think that it might have been a preference for 4e or some other reason that would cause him to say, "I don't really think that Paizo is going my favored direction, but I'm going to still support them and stay in the community." If the community then became to caustic for him, I wouldn't think that he shouldn't be allowed to then leave.
If his only reason for leaving was, "since their forums are bad, I want to get rid of this product," then it could probably be applied to the WotC forums. But I do not believe that is the case here.