Can anyone tell me whats happened to Domain spells for Clerics?
The section on Domain Powers (p22) states that both powers and bonus spells are granted by a Domain. I cant find any lists of the bonus spells though.
Is this an oversight or have the bonus spells been removed in this version?
The way it reads, the Domain info starting on p176 is a list of the Domain powers, not bonus spells.
To quote p22
This seems to imply the info listed from p176 onwards are the powers, but there are additional spells granted as well. Has the list of 9 spells that 3.5 used for each domain, that count as domain spells, been removed from this version of the game?
This becomes particulary important when you start looking at prestige classes that grant boosts to any Domain Spells that you cast (Radiant Servant of Pelor for example).
The 1st and 8th level items listed in a domain are the "abilities" or "powers", the rest are the bonus spells. Viz:
"Domains grant one ability at 1st level and a second ability at 8th level, as noted in their description. [..] In addition, each domain grants a number of bonus spells. These spells are prepared along with the cleric's other spells for the day."
So a domain spell list now has 5 spells in it, not 9. It's not clear, I agree.
Keeping the bonus spells listed as "(Sp)" certainly doesn't help. Or the fact that some can be cast 3/day.
A few questions about the Domains as they are currently written:
1.) On page 176, it mentions that "The DC for any save is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the caster's Charisma modifier." Charisma, not Wisdom... Is that only referring to the special abilities granted at 1st and at 8th level, or does that mean that the additional spells granted by domain are given save DCs based on Charisma instead of Wisdom, per the norm?
2.) The Dazing Touch ability for the Charm domain doesn't list a duration. How long does the subject remain dazed if it fails its save?
3.) The Bleeding Touch ability of the Death domain seems very overpowered compared to what it used to be. Formerly usable only once per day, it either killed an opponent, or it didn't. Now, theoretically, a cleric could wade thru a group of foes and either severely injure or even kill them all... after all, it's usually much simpler to touch a foe than to hit their full AC with a weapon, and there is no saving throw. A foe that has no healing capability is looking at taking the full damage of d6 per Cleric level, with no way to stop it. And he can do it every round, touching a different opponent each round! Or even start all over again on the same opponent for the same duration by touching his foe a second time... Yikes!
4.) The Magic domain has Detect Magic listed as it's 2nd-level ability... Wow, that's been drastically changed. Any cleric can do that already thanks to unlimited use of Orisons (0-level spells)! So this new ability is kinda pointless. They used to have a very useful spell available as their 2nd-level spell, Identify. Now that the expensive spell component has been removed from that spell, I don't see how keeping that ability would be unbalancing... limit it to 1x per day per 2 or 3 caster levels, if you like.
5.) The Strength domain mentions that "the effect fades after 3 rounds or when the reroll is used." What reroll is it talking about? Did you mean to say "or when the bonus is used" instead?
There are more discrepancies listed, mostly in questions regarding balance -- what self respecting adventuring cleric would take the Plant or Law or Good domains when they could have Fire or Death or War instead? -- but for now, I'll settle for some clarification on these few questions listed above. Thanks!
There are more discrepancies listed, mostly in questions regarding balance -- what self respecting adventuring cleric would take the Plant or Law or Good domains when they could have Fire or Death or War instead? -- but for now, I'll settle for some clarification on these few questions listed above. Thanks!
Huh?! Law and Good are roughly a bazillion times better than Fire and War at higher levels. The ability to take 11 on a roll even after that roll has failed? The ability to add up to +20 on basically any roll you want? Beats the snot out of doing up to 1d6+10 fire damage, if you ask me!
A few questions about the Domains as they are currently written:
1.) On page 176, it mentions that "The DC for any save is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the caster's Charisma modifier." Charisma, not Wisdom... Is that only referring to the special abilities granted at 1st and at 8th level, or does that mean that the additional spells granted by domain are given save DCs based on Charisma instead of Wisdom, per the norm?
Yes - the text is fairly clear that it only applies to the special abilities.
2.) The Dazing Touch ability for the Charm domain doesn't list a duration. How long does the subject remain dazed if it fails its save?
Huh, funny. Given several other "effect" powers last 1 round, plus the Daze spell lasts 1 round, I'd say 1 round. Certainly would be a bit overpowered to have a permanent paralyzation with no save as a 1st level domain power :)
3.) The Bleeding Touch ability of the Death domain seems very overpowered compared to what it used to be. ... Yikes!
Yikes indeed - seems rather worth of the Death domain. The damage doesn't scale up like some others, plus its a melee (touch) attack, so I can see the bleeding duration thing. Definitely strong.
4.) The Magic domain has Detect Magic listed as it's 2nd-level ability... Wow, that's been drastically changed. Any cleric can do that already thanks to unlimited use of Orisons (0-level spells)! So this new ability is kinda pointless. They used to have a very useful spell available as their 2nd-level spell, Identify. Now that the expensive spell component has been removed from that spell, I don't see how keeping that ability would be unbalancing... limit it to 1x per day per 2 or 3 caster levels, if you like.
Detect Magic - agreed. Not so great. It's basically 1 0th level slot, instead of one 1st level slot per 2 levels.
I think the removal of Identify wasn't for balance issues, but perhaps just because they thought it wasn't good enough as a 2nd level spell (would be 4th level power) anymore. Replacing it with Magic Mouth though... ick.
5.) The Strength domain mentions that "the effect fades after 3 rounds or when the reroll is used." What reroll is it talking about? Did you mean to say "or when the bonus is used" instead?
Ya the bonus - must have copied the reroll text from another one.
There are more discrepancies...
Yep - and I'm sure we'll get them all straightened out when the playtesting hits this chapter. Good catches for sure!
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I'd suggest changing the wording on the "bonus spells" bit to something like "bonus spell-like-abilities" and instead of "prepared alongside" you could say "prepared in addition to and at the same time as" - because it's rather confusing to me at first read whether they're supposed to be spells you can prepare or not.
/ali
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Jason needs to make it clear whether or not domain powers receive a saving throw. For example, the Touch of Evil power does not appear to allow a save. The introduction says that IF powers allow a save, it can be calculated at 10 + 1/2 cleric level + Cha modifier. It should be explicit that if a power/spell does not list a saving throw, it does not require one.
I'd suggest changing the wording on the "bonus spells" bit to something like "bonus spell-like-abilities" and instead of "prepared alongside" you could say "prepared in addition to and at the same time as" - because it's rather confusing to me at first read whether they're supposed to be spells you can prepare or not.
/ali
I think they're not supposed to be spell-like abilities, but actual domain spell slots.
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I think they're not supposed to be spell-like abilities, but actual domain spell slots.I'd suggest changing the wording on the "bonus spells" bit to something like "bonus spell-like-abilities" and instead of "prepared alongside" you could say "prepared in addition to and at the same time as" - because it's rather confusing to me at first read whether they're supposed to be spells you can prepare or not.
/ali
That doesn't make sense to me. For example, the Glory Domain at 2nd:
Shield of Faith (Sp): You can cast Shield of Faith 1/day per 2 caster levels you possess.
If they're domain spell slots, what level slot do they fall into? Do they need to be memorized via regular spell slots? That makes no sense because shield of faith is already on the cleric spell list. But on the spell progression chart for Cleric, there's no longer a +1 next to each spells-per-day entry to indicate the domain spell slot spell you can memorize. Plus, (Sp) stands for spell-like ability, does it not?
Or do you mean they are spell slots in the sense that you cast them like spells (needing components) instead of like spell-like abilities?
/ali
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2.) The Dazing Touch ability for the Charm domain doesn't list a duration. How long does the subject remain dazed if it fails its save?
Huh, funny. Given several other "effect" powers last 1 round, plus the Daze spell lasts 1 round, I'd say 1 round. Certainly would be a bit overpowered to have a permanent paralyzation with no save as a 1st level domain power :)
According the SRD the Dazed condition traditionally lasts only one round.
The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.
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I'd suggest changing the wording on the "bonus spells" bit to something like "bonus spell-like-abilities" and instead of "prepared alongside" you could say "prepared in addition to and at the same time as" - because it's rather confusing to me at first read whether they're supposed to be spells you can prepare or not.
/ali
I agree. Far as I can tell the spells don't take a slot in the traditional sense. Just a small re-wording would fix that.
This would be a good thing to keep in mind when that portion of the playtest opens.
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That doesn't make sense to me. For example, the Glory Domain at 2nd:
Shield of Faith (Sp): You can cast Shield of Faith 1/day per 2 caster levels you possess.
If they're domain spell slots, what level slot do they fall into? Do they need to be memorized via regular spell slots? That makes no sense because shield of faith is already on the cleric spell list. But on the spell progression chart for Cleric, there's no longer a +1 next to each spells-per-day entry to indicate the domain spell slot spell you can memorize. Plus, (Sp) stands for spell-like ability, does it not?
Or do you mean they are spell slots in the sense that you cast them like spells (needing components) instead of like spell-like abilities?
/ali
its bonus spell... meaning besides learning the normal alotment of spells for your cleric, you get as an EXTRA 1/day per 2 caster levels the ability to cast Shield of Faith
i would say they count as special abilties, only askingof you your holy symbol, but it sounds reasanble to ask for a clarify
just for an small detail: my 2nd level cleric has both Glory and Sun Domains, i haven't find for now the need to use the sun Domain and the glowy just once each... but i enjoyed both the use and the knowledge of what my cleric is capable of
How many Domain spells can be prepared per day? Page 176, second column, top of the page states, "A cleric gains the listed bonus spells from both of his Domains." Does this mean he can prepare both domain spells per day or just one?