So I don't normally post about politics, and I almost never post to the site from home, but I thought this was interesting enough to be worth pointing out. John McCain's campaign just took a fairly significant swipe at Dungeons & Dragons for no apparent reason.
From the campaign's website:
"It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others."
Crazy.
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So I don't normally post about politics, and I almost never post to the site from home, but I thought this was interesting enough to be worth pointing out. John McCain's campaign just took a fairly significant swipe at Dungeons & Dragons for no apparent reason.
From the campaign's website:
"It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others."
Crazy.
So much for that apology he made earlier for a statement insulting D&D.
Also, this doesn't help him win over the "pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd," and likely diminishes his credibility with much of the pro-McCain Dungeons & Dragons crowd.
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That's funny. My previous group had 2 National guard members in it that had to ship out to Afganistan and a Port Authority/Homeland defense security official in it. Guess that's not supportive enough of our country to merit not being stereotyped in a bad manner.
F&+& him and his self-righteous bull-s*~*. I don't want a leader that will toss about ANY stereotypes. Just show respect for people and what they do. How hard is that?
Charming.
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He's probably just had some terrible DM experiences. Grudges are hard to let go.Dubya killed off his favorite character.
Bush Jr : Okay, Degomorgon has Jahn the fighter in a grapple! You take 34 damage from constrictin'.
McCain : DAMMIT! I'M NOT NEARLY CLOSE ENOUGH FOR TH-
Cheney : My ranger takes aim and fires at his tentacles to free Jahn!
McCain : NO!
I heard Clinton's bard stayed back in town most of the time to carouse. Perot only played gnomes and kind of weirded everyone else out.
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He's probably just had some terrible DM experiences. Grudges are hard to let go.Dubya killed off his favorite character.Bush Jr : Okay, Degomorgon has Jahn the fighter in a grapple! You take 34 damage from constrictin'.
McCain : DAMMIT! I'M NOT NEARLY CLOSE ENOUGH FOR TH-
Cheney : My ranger takes aim and fires at his tentacles to free Jahn!
McCain : NO!
Bwahaha! Subtle.
Well played.
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...and likely diminishes his credibility with much of the pro-McCain Dungeons & Dragons crowd.
Especially since, while I wasn't a POW, I was in combat AND rolling a few dice with some fellow buds. Hmmm.
It never ceases to amaze me that we as a people have this inborn need to tear one another down in order to make ourselves feel good. Is there really something about gaming that makes me a morally and socially reprehensible individual even though I've sacrificed my dreams and desires, my health, and my personal comfort to ensure the security of others' these past 22 years? That out of 18 years of marriage I've seen my wife for maybe 12 because of military commitments?
Thanks, McCain. Thought you'd understood ...
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"pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd"
gee, maybe his campaign people have been trolling roleplaying forums for the last eight months. gosh, just reading some of the political threads on these boards, where would they EVER get the impression that the gaming world trends towards the left?
oh, and fake healer, i hope you're not planning on voting obama, after he characterized his grandmother as a racist, and you know, a "typical white person"...
posted by your friendly non-partisan hater of both major parties :)
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Remember who he is trying to appeal to - the Religious Right who probably still think we worship the devil. He doesn't have much of a base there, so this might be a quick way of geting to their hearts (maybe in focus groups they say that it's the work of the Devil). I think it's crass, since a lot of people in the forces play D&D, and I doubt Obama ever played D&D since he is obviously not geeky enough. But, meh, politics is rough. Not that I have a vote, I'd be more intrested in their economic policies than their attitudes to D&D.
Belittling a large group of people that entertains itself in such a harmless, often brilliant way?
(Holds his bleeding nose)
"What'd ya do THAT for, guy?!"
Perhaps we should all switch to checkers, using play pieces made of apple pie crust on a checkerboard made from white and brown bald eagle feathers, so we'll seem more like real Americans. Worst of all, D&D players, in the way I think he meant it, are smart people who don't plug perfectly into the mainstream. Geeks.
Sewing the seeds of division, anti-intellectualism and scapegoating early. Sweet.
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Belittling a large group of people that entertains itself in such a harmless, often brilliant way?
(Holds his bleeding nose)
"What'd ya do THAT for, guy?!"
Perhaps we should all switch to checkers, using play pieces made of apple pie crust on a checkerboard made from white and brown bald eagle feathers, so we'll seem more like real Americans. Worst of all, D&D players, in the way I think he meant it, are smart people who don't plug perfectly into the mainstream. Geeks.
Sewing the seeds of division, anti-intellectualism and scapegoating early. Sweet.
its an easy group to blow off, politically, for a republican. he may have lost, oh, all of three votes with that comment...
its an easy group to blow off, politically, for a republican. he may have lost, oh, all of three votes with that comment...
Well, there's certainly that.
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Well, there's certainly that.
its an easy group to blow off, politically, for a republican. he may have lost, oh, all of three votes with that comment...
eh, like i said, they're both tools this time around. i think the last time we had a decent choice was '92, actually.
the two major parties are so polarized (dailykos idiots on one side, christian coalition crusader a**munches on the other) that neither even come close to reflecting the real beliefs of the vast unwashed masses any more...
...neither even come close to reflecting the real beliefs of the vast unwashed masses any more...
I'm afraid that's true the world over. Politicians don't live in the real world, so what would they know?
Strange enough...
What´s next? McCain handing out chick tracts or resurrecting BADD?
Obviously, the D&D crowd is small enough that pissing them off has no real effect, but he can gain points with the conservative religious wing by bashing them. It would be interesting to know how he comes to pick on that minority, however.
Stefan
I think this is all of little consequence. The only people that are likely to even really take notice about a comment regarding D&D are gamers, and I'd be willing to bet something like this won't even impact their voting, much less anyone else's. At least, it shouldn't. Afterall, the line was probably written/created/spoken by one of McCain's staffers who clearly has their own concept of what is cool - with gamers obviously not being on the list and only worth disparaging. seriously, I don't know anyone of McCain's generation who would just casually throw out a reference to D&D. And, if anyone actually changed their vote or based it on this statement when there are so many much more important issues at stake, they should be slapped upside the head. It's stupid, and stinks, but that's it.
the two major parties are so polarized (dailykos idiots on one side, christian coalition crusader a**munches on the other) that neither even come close to reflecting the real beliefs of the vast unwashed masses any more...
Yeah, but both candidates, to some degree, have been drifting back to the center for awhile now. Afterall, it's not those at the polar ends, or those who always vote based on party lines, who decide the election. It's that group in the middle - the centrists, the moderates, the 'swing' voters.
its an easy group to blow off, politically, for a republican. he may have lost, oh, all of three votes with that comment...Belittling a large group of people that entertains itself in such a harmless, often brilliant way?
(Holds his bleeding nose)
"What'd ya do THAT for, guy?!"
Perhaps we should all switch to checkers, using play pieces made of apple pie crust on a checkerboard made from white and brown bald eagle feathers, so we'll seem more like real Americans. Worst of all, D&D players, in the way I think he meant it, are smart people who don't plug perfectly into the mainstream. Geeks.
Sewing the seeds of division, anti-intellectualism and scapegoating early. Sweet.
Its probably worth it to him to do whatever he can to harm Dungeons and Dragons as it will help him with the Fundamentalist Right Wing Christian demographic, which is a lot bigger then everyone in D&D combined. That said D&D has always been very big in the military so he's going to piss off slightly more then a tiny handful.
I think this is all of little consequence. The only people that are likely to even really take notice about a comment regarding D&D are gamers, and I'd be willing to bet something like this won't even impact their voting, much less anyone else's. At least, it shouldn't. Afterall, the line was probably written/created/spoken by one of McCain's staffers who clearly has their own concept of what is cool - with gamers obviously not being on the list and only worth disparaging. seriously, I don't know anyone of McCain's generation who would just casually throw out a reference to D&D. And, if anyone actually changed their vote or based it on this statement when there are so many much more important issues at stake, they should be slapped upside the head. It's stupid, and stinks, but that's it.
the two major parties are so polarized (dailykos idiots on one side, christian coalition crusader a**munches on the other) that neither even come close to reflecting the real beliefs of the vast unwashed masses any more...Yeah, but both candidates, to some degree, have been drifting back to the center for awhile now. Afterall, it's not those at the polar ends, or those who always vote based on party lines, who decide the election. It's that group in the middle - the centrists, the moderates, the 'swing' voters.
Your probably right.
But, keep in mind he needs to keep the Christian right happy even after they elect him. Cracking down on RPGs might be a step in the right direction for that. However its tough to see what he could really do. I mean the obvious thing is to demand that they clean up their act in a family friendly manner. That said I can't think of anything he could really do in America that would be that significant. Americans take their freedom of speech very serously. At worst RPG products might be forced to carry some kind of mature content warnings or some such.
So I don't normally post about politics, and I almost never post to the site from home, but I thought this was interesting enough to be worth pointing out. John McCain's campaign just took a fairly significant swipe at Dungeons & Dragons for no apparent reason.
From the campaign's website:
"It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others."
link
Crazy.
Umm, he does know that some of those people who suffered on behalf of others namely the armed forces actually play d&d right?
Does this mean he believes they're all voting for Obama anyway?
Umm, he does know that some of those people who suffered on behalf of others namely the armed forces actually play d&d right?
I would not bet my salary on that.
Does this mean he believes they're all voting for Obama anyway?
I think this is just the pet peeve of one of his advisors, and it is a cheap trick to catch votes from these so-called christians.
Stefan
Remember who he is trying to appeal to - the Religious Right who probably still think we worship the devil.Wait a minute! Crap! You mean we aren't actually supposed to be worshipping the devil? Damn it!
Why, now I know why it had to be a black cat we got from the animal shelter this past January.
Stefan
He's probably just had some terrible DM experiences. Grudges are hard to let go.Dubya killed off his favorite character.Bush Jr : Okay, Degomorgon has Jahn the fighter in a grapple! You take 34 damage from constrictin'.
McCain : DAMMIT! I'M NOT NEARLY CLOSE ENOUGH FOR TH-
Cheney : My ranger takes aim and fires at his tentacles to free Jahn!
McCain : NO!
I heard Clinton's bard stayed back in town most of the time to carouse. Perot only played gnomes and kind of weirded everyone else out.
ROFLMAO
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Remember who he is trying to appeal to - the Religious Right who probably still think we worship the devil.Wait a minute! Crap! You mean we aren't actually supposed to be worshipping the devil? Damn it!
It's not a requirement anymore - we are allowed to substitute him with either Cthulhu or Nyarlatothep without suffering any dire consequences apart from occasional rages of madness - I even heard some are trying their luck with Hastur but that is clearly insane...
I, like some others on here, have TWO ex-army guys in my gaming group. Two of the best guys I've ever had the pleasure of gaming with.
Thanks McCain.
*sakes head* Can us kobolds be allowed to eat McCain? At least let us chew off his arm. It should taste good with a side of kidnapped children and gelatinous cubes for dessert.
EDIT: I seriously do hope that everyone that came online and told how EGG changed their lives after his passing reads this and remembers this when they vote.
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What an absolute jerkweed. My older brother (the guy that first introduced me to D&D) was in the 82nd Airborne in Desert Storm. He was in the military for 12 years, and played Dungeons and Dragons. I guess McCain just wants to try and hurl insults that would have gotten him some brownie points with the religious wrong back in 1984.
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Not to interrupt, but please realize that some of us who play (and support Paizo) are also devout Christians (members of the religious right even) who do not see a conflict between a game and our faith. Some of you justifiably upset at McCain's campaign for painting with a really broad and derogatory brush seem to be practising a touch of the same in this thread.
Edit: And it was a stupid thing to say that won't win him many points with anyone. I notice, as a member of the religious right, that the speaker was not appealing to any religious base by implying D&D was 'evil.' Rather he was falling onto the stereotype that we are all unwashed slackers living in our parents basement.
Not to interrupt, but please realize that some of us who play (and support Paizo) are also devout Christians (members of the religious right even) who do not see a conflict between a game and our faith. Some of you justifiably upset at McCain's campaign for painting with a really broad and derogatory brush seem to be practising a touch of the same in this thread.
Edit: And it was a stupid thing to say that won't win him many points with anyone. I notice, as a member of the religious right, that the speaker was not appealing to any religious base by implying D&D was 'evil.' Rather he was falling onto the stereotype that we are all unwashed slackers living in our parents basement.
Hm. Political professionals should know better than to launch gratuitous and prejudiced verbal attacks on anyone. So, either this was an unprofessional glitch or an attempt to garner some sympathies from at least some part of the audience - both explanations fail to impress me.
And surely, there is no conflict between being a devout christian and playing a game - where should it stem from?
Stefan
What´s next? McCain handing out chick tracts or resurrecting BADD?
I certainly wouldn't put it past a politician desprite for votes to do such a thing just to win votes. I'm just glad the Tiefling is off the D&D cover (or else I'd bet alot more money that it would happen). Having infernal blood as a race and warlock class (infernal pact) its going to be bad enough.
I said that it was playing with fire back when they first announced that they were doing it. I still think Wizards was completely blind to the political temperature in this country for doing it.
What the hell?
Isn't this the second disparaging reference to Dungeons and Dragons in this campaign? Think he's going to outlaw the game if he gets elected?
(Fortunately, Pathfinder will be safe...)
What was the first disparaging reference to D&D?
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Hm. Political professionals should know better than to launch gratuitous and prejudiced verbal attacks on anyone. So, either this was an unprofessional glitch or an attempt to garner some sympathies from at least some part of the audience - both explanations fail to impress me.
I highly suspect, some young punk (younger than 40) on the internet staff with more time than tact thought he was being cute. I truly doubt McCain gives basement dwelling Dungeons and Dragons players a seconds thought one way or the other.
This sort of thing happens all the time on both sides within the web-staff. Which is a shame. Someone ought to keep a tighter grip on the 'message' that comes out of their sites. If anything what it displays is a lack of group discipline within the campaign. Perhaps it stems from hiring web-bloggers who have both computer skill and enthusiasm but little political experience.
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What the hell?
Isn't this the second disparaging reference to Dungeons and Dragons in this campaign? Think he's going to outlaw the game if he gets elected?
(Fortunately, Pathfinder will be safe...)
What was the first disparaging reference to D&D?
I heard about the last one here too. Here is the link.
Actually, looks like it was the same aide (Goldfarb) who made the comment both times.
Well, there's certainly that.
its an easy group to blow off, politically, for a republican. he may have lost, oh, all of three votes with that comment...
I don't think so. I think he made a mistake actually. I suspect there are millions of service men (and women?) world-wide who (a) lean to the right and (b) game.
Some militaries officially frown on the game, the Israeli military for example, IIRC. Also, IIRC, the US military frowns on the game a bit (though not officially). I suspect many such folk are quiet about their gaming.
I think McCain just insulted and alienated more service votes than he realizes, which, IMO is all to the good.
Also, I don't think this is a "young punk on the staff" (sorry, GenCon exhaustion, can't find and quote) foolishly spouting off. In fact, I'd guess a middle-aged staffer who missed that "nerd" is the new cool.
Very little comes out of campaign hq without thought and serious review. I think this is marketing. I think this is a facet of a deliberate smear campaign -- not against gamers -- but against Obama supporters. It is supposed to virally inject the meme that Obama supporters are all basement dwelling slackers out of contact with reality. Further, to suggest, "and you don't want to be that, do you?"
D&D = not see the real world, because in the basement and living in a fantasy world, because gaming.
Flat out marketing. If they can get that connection going in peoples' minds then they can influence fence sitters (emotionally, non-consciously) who months from now will just wind up feeling they "don't want to be like those D&D types", without really knowing why; thus, inclining them away from Obama.
My prognostication: look for more attempts to equate being out of touch with reality, socially awkward, living with mom, etc. etc. and being an Obama supporter to come out of the McCain campaign.
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So, having never heard of BADD before, I looked it up on Wikipedia (what a wonderful toy!) and have since discovered that Patricia Pulling was crazy. I learned something today.
And even though I am one of those "left-wing wackos" who is going to vote for Obama...I REALLY don't think Senator McCain gives a hoot about D&D. It was probably an overzealous staffer who was trying to score Senator McCain some brownie points with the extreme conservatives.
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Well, there's certainly that.
its an easy group to blow off, politically, for a republican. he may have lost, oh, all of three votes with that comment...I don't think so. I think he made a mistake actually. I suspect there are millions of service men (and women?) world-wide who (a) lean to the right and (b) game.
Some militaries officially frown on the game, the Israeli military for example, IIRC.
I think he just insulted and alienated more service votes than he realizes, which, IMO is all to the good.
I don't think many, if any, service voters willsay "I agree with McCain's policies, but I'm voting for Obama because he didn't insult D&D "
What was the first disparaging reference to D&D?
Michael Goldfarb:
"But in their new role as bloggers, the paper’s editors seem to have all the intelligence and reason of the average Daily Kos diarist sitting at home in his mother’s basement and ranting into the ether between games of dungeons and dragons."
He said it at the end of July in reference to the NY Times editors.
As a veteran myself and on behalf of the men and women I served with whom I ran many games for while I was in the first Gulf War, he can profanity profanity sideways profanity profanity profanity.
Mr. Goldfarb, I'm sorry D&D is too complicated for you to understand. Stick with checkers and Chutes and Ladders.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I don't think so. I think he made a mistake actually. I suspect there are millions of service men (and women?) world-wide who (a) lean to the right and (b) game.Some militaries officially frown on the game, the Israeli military for example, IIRC.
I think he just insulted and alienated more service votes than he realizes, which, IMO is all to the good.
Yeah, I can see it now...
"Gosh, I agree with McCain's positions on all the important political issues of our time, but this off-handed insult to D&D goes too far! I'm voting for the Green party instead."
If this comment is sufficient to affect your vote, I'd wager you shouldn't be voting in the first place.
Which isn't to say it's not obnoxious. It is. But I think the posters attributing it to an overzealous mouthpiece have the better of it. I can't imagine someone like McCain even realizes D&D exists, and to the extent he does, he could probably care less about it.