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what did the responce letter say?I picked up the 4E PHB, because I wanted to see what Wizards had actually done with the game. I'll admit, I went into it expecting to be disappointed, I hadn't heard a lot I liked about 4e on the net. Unfortunately, my expectations were realized. I can't even specifically tell you why I don't like 4e, except to say it "feels" completely wrong. It doesn't "feel" like D&D to me. At least when the game went from 1e to 2e and 2e to 3e, it still felt right. A couple rule changes, a few specifics altered, it was still D&D. This, to my mind, isn't D&D. I'm not sure what it is, but it's just not right. I wish I could be more specific on what's wrong with 4e, but I can't, it's just a wrong feel to the game.
Given that 3e is still being supported by multiple developers and writers, I have no great need to switch. So I'm going to stay with the system that feels like the game I started playing in 1980, and leave it at that.
Well, I also don't want to buy any more WoTC products period. I was deeply offended by the response I got to a complaint letter I sent to them over the Dragon and Dungeon cancellations. So, I'm actually relieved I don't care for 4e, it makes my decision to not buy from them easier to live with.
I was offended less by what it said than I was by what it didn't say, and by how it was presented. I had sent the letter they were responding to some 8 months prior to receiving the reply, they didn't actually address anything I had put in my complaint directly in the letter, and it was presented as being from the customer service department. No specific person's name, no signature, just a stock form letter with no personalization whatsoever. All I could think of was that it showed just how valued I was to them as a customer, that they couldn't make up a damned name or a fake signature stamp to put on their form letter.
Funny thing is, as upset as I was over the cancellation of the magazines (and I was flat out livid over that), I had had time to get over my mad. I had come to accept that the magazines were gone, even though I didn't like it. The response letter just lit that anger up all over again, and it still hasn't gone down this time. I get angry pretty easily, but I forget my anger just as quickly, it takes a lot make me angry enough that I'm still pissed off half a year or more later.
Here is what I wanted to talk about. How is 4.0 doing as far as profitability, likability, and bringing in new players?
Just sticking to the OP's basic question here.
I imagine we can conjecture and debate all we want over the impalbable facts regarding drawing in newbies and 4e's likability.
However here are some relevant facts I've gleaned:
At GenCon WoTC sold out multiple times on the Forgotten Realms CS and some core books (may have just been the PHB, I can't remember).
During the initial release, I believe they were in the top 10 on Amazon for books sold. I know they were number 12 at one point a few weeks after.
My numbers may be slightly off, but I think in general, they are happy with the initial sales.
If it continues, we shall see.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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However here are some relevant facts I've gleaned:
At GenCon WoTC sold out multiple times on the Forgotten Realms CS and some core books (may have just been the PHB, I can't remember).
Isn't that rather like saying "John Deere sold out of their newest tractor at the Farmers' Convention! That means everyone loves John Deere!" My point: if they HADN'T sold out, THAT would have been news. Selling out of the newest offering by the biggest company on the block at one of the biggest RPG conventions isn't news; it's expected.
Isn't that rather like saying "John Deere sold out of their newest tractor at the Farmers' Convention! That means everyone loves John Deere!" My point: if they HADN'T sold out, THAT would have been news. Selling out of the newest offering by the biggest company on the block at one of the biggest RPG conventions isn't news; it's expected.However here are some relevant facts I've gleaned:
At GenCon WoTC sold out multiple times on the Forgotten Realms CS and some core books (may have just been the PHB, I can't remember).
I think what he is saying is that Captain Hammer has foiled Dr. Horrible's attempt at defeating the status quo.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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That was my main gripe,or should I say reason, about not going to 4E. I just recently got back into gaming in 2005 after 20 years off and I have about 400 dollars in books that I bought that I am not ready to put by the wayside yet.
Same here. I have only been back into D&Dfor about 2-3 years after a large layoff and went nuts. I have spent Thousands of $$$ since I restarted and really don't want to see all that newly spent cash wasted.
I have bout the 4e Core Books and read it in spurts. I don't think it is a bad game, but it is just not for me. I played in the pre-release at Game Day and even though I went and bought the books, my opinion hasn't changed much from that.
As I've said. Not a bad game, just different and not for me. Too simplified and it does seem to play like an MMORPG (although I do only have the Game Day as experience in actual play).
Isn't that rather like saying "John Deere sold out of their newest tractor at the Farmers' Convention! That means everyone loves John Deere!" My point: if they HADN'T sold out, THAT would have been news. Selling out of the newest offering by the biggest company on the block at one of the biggest RPG conventions isn't news; it's expected.However here are some relevant facts I've gleaned:
At GenCon WoTC sold out multiple times on the Forgotten Realms CS and some core books (may have just been the PHB, I can't remember).
Yet isn't that the same thing I keep hearing from the PfRPG fans, that it sold out at GenCon so that means ... something.
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Sanity check time:
Okay gang - you can't say such things as "It's got legs" and "Viva la revolution" over the strong sales of Pathfinder Beta in the thread Pathfinder Beta Sells Out and then turn around and say that the sales that WotC has been enjoying concerning 4E aren't indicative of success. Its like having an orange in both hands and trying to convince me only one is the real orange - the other, we don't know yet.
To the original OP, my take:
The game is only a success when YOU and YOUR FRIENDS enjoy it. If WotC were to disappear off the planet tomorrow, and yet you continue to enjoy playing 4E, then it is a success. To be honest, there is no other measuring bar out there that has any merit, not even mine.
To everyone else:
WotC and 4E have torqued me mightily, and I'd be remiss if I denied that. However, after all my ire I've learned to embrace 4E like a new type of paint brush in my artist's toolbox - it is a tool to help me paint stories. There are other tools that I have that are more utilitarian and I will use those tools more frequently, most likely. However, there are some paintings I wish to create where I can see that this brush is going to come in quite handily. I'm looking forward to creating those paintings, too.
It's not, however, to say that I am no longer torqued ...
Edit: Dang - ninja'd by the Pres! Oh well - GMTA!!
Not that I really want to become part of the edition wars but since people are posting about their groups doing this and doing that and therefore and sticking to 3.5e I would just like to post my thoughts of MY experiences with 3.5e to 4e.
I am currently sitting in a group on sundays that has come off a hiatus to 4e and almost entirely skipped 3.5e even though they had brought tons of material. They have played longer then me and I have 12 years of playing experience with D&D and had memorized the core 2e PHB rules. We have a group of seven and have people waiting in the wings to join as well but the DM wants to keep the game managable and we play in a small dining room. So that is atleast 7 for 4e...
I am currently prepping an online 4e game which consists of a former 3.5e hater (literally would not come near D&D and was a Deadlands, Scion, and Dark Heresy fan) which I managed to convert by getting him to look at the rules and another 4 confirmed players with a few others ones still on the fence about character ideas but I won't count them...
That is about 13 people that are playing 4e and not 3.5e with a bunch more on the sidelines either waiting for space to play or still deciding on what they want to do.
I plan on supporting Paizo though by buying their Pathfinder AP because I think they are one of the greatest companies out there but I do not plan on converting to Pathfinder RPG because despite my thousands of dollars in 3.5e stuff, that I wasn't already using because I burned out on it, the things about 3.5e that I felt were constricting and burned me out on it are not really getting more then a paint job and not changed.
Isn't that rather like saying "John Deere sold out of their newest tractor at the Farmers' Convention! That means everyone loves John Deere!" My point: if they HADN'T sold out, THAT would have been news. Selling out of the newest offering by the biggest company on the block at one of the biggest RPG conventions isn't news; it's expected.
I am not trying to break news here nor did I mention everyone loves 4e. I was simply offering some information in an attempt to answer the OP's original question; however, it seems as if I have also awoken your latent (and scathing, might I add) wit. You're welcome.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I am not trying to break news here nor did I mention everyone loves 4e. I was simply offering some information in an attempt to answer the OP's original question; however, it seems as if I have also awoken your latent (and scathing, might I add) wit. You're welcome.
Scathing?!? They told me at the wit therapist that they looufa'd off all the scathing and left only mildly abrasive... Darn them! Darn them to heck!
Plus, to quote the Rouse: Rouse's Post to ENWorld
I would like to personally apologize for the total lack of professionalism and customer service you received at the Wizards of the Coast booth. Yes we under ordered the FR books and lots of people were probably asking about them and likely upset about us being sold out but that is no excuse for apathy and rudeness.
Plus to respond to the poster who compared the Pathfinder Beta sellout to the WotC FRCS sellout: Yes, when John Deere sells out of tractors at the Big Old Farm Expo, that's expected. When Earle's House of Gears (tiny little Earle's) sells out, that's amazing.
Plus to respond to the poster who compared the Pathfinder Beta sellout to the WotC FRCS sellout: Yes, when John Deere sells out of tractors at the Big Old Farm Expo, that's expected. When Earle's House of Gears (tiny little Earle's) sells out, that's amazing.
Let us not forget that Earle's House of Gears (tiny little Earle's)makes a fine product and is VERY WELL-KNOWN in farming circles.
Of course much of this conversation strays from the point -- the OP wanted to know how 4e is doing. So far, so good.
I think another poster said it best when he mentioned that if you are enjoying it, then it is a success.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Let us not forget that Earle's House of Gears (tiny little Earle's)makes a fine product and is VERY WELL-KNOWN in farming circles.
Of course much of this conversation strays from the point -- the OP wanted to know how 4e is doing. So far, so good.
I think another poster said it best when he mentioned that if you are enjoying it, then it is a success.
I agree completely. As long as you're enjoying it, it's a success. Of course, the consensus in the hobby is that there is no consensus: some like it, some don't and sometimes it rains. Think about it.
Oh, and I for one would totally buy more Pathfinder material if they changed the name of the company to Earle's RPGs. Just saying.
Plus to respond to the poster who compared the Pathfinder Beta sellout to the WotC FRCS sellout: Yes, when John Deere sells out of tractors at the Big Old Farm Expo, that's expected. When Earle's House of Gears (tiny little Earle's) sells out, that's amazing.
Except tractors are a bit more pricey of a product for someone to buy and then sit on their shelf. Lots of RPG fans will purchase a product to glance through and have just in case a game of it comes up. The fact that any product at GenCon, an event where people go to spend time and money on RPGs, gets sold out shouldn't be too much of a big whoop-dee-doo.
Just to add another bit of data - the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is currently #100 on Amazon's top 100 books.
Edit: Pathfinder Beta is #27,305
Apart from this being like comparing apples and oranges, the Pathfinder Beta was never supposed to be sold via the book stores. It is, after all, only the BETA playtest document.
Not so sound like a shameless shill (which, of course, I am), but I strongly urge anyone interested in a print copy of this book try to pick it up as soon as possible. It hits game stores next week, and as of yet we have no intention of selling them through the book trade (meaning Amazon will be a no-go). We just don't have enough of them to risk any of them getting tied up in a distributor's inventory.
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Just to add another bit of data - the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is currently #100 on Amazon's top 100 books.
Edit: Pathfinder Beta is #27,305
Apart from this being like comparing apples and oranges, the Pathfinder Beta was never supposed to be sold via the book stores. It is, after all, only the BETA playtest document.
Not so sound like a shameless shill (which, of course, I am), but I strongly urge anyone interested in a print copy of this book try to pick it up as soon as possible. It hits game stores next week, and as of yet we have no intention of selling them through the book trade (meaning Amazon will be a no-go). We just don't have enough of them to risk any of them getting tied up in a distributor's inventory.
That's fine but Amazon has it available for pre-order and people are buying it there.
The post was simply data - nothing more, nothing less.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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Except tractors are a bit more pricey of a product for someone to buy and then sit on their shelf. Lots of RPG fans will purchase a product to glance through and have just in case a game of it comes up. The fact that any product at GenCon, an event where people go to spend time and money on RPGs, gets sold out shouldn't be too much of a big whoop-dee-doo.
Very true. 3 members of my gaming group did that exact thing with the 4th edition player's handbook. One of them still hasn't gotten around to actually reading it yet.
Just to add another bit of data - the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is currently #100 on Amazon's top 100 books.
Edit: Pathfinder Beta is #27,305
Apart from this being like comparing apples and oranges, the Pathfinder Beta was never supposed to be sold via the book stores. It is, after all, only the BETA playtest document.
Not so sound like a shameless shill (which, of course, I am), but I strongly urge anyone interested in a print copy of this book try to pick it up as soon as possible. It hits game stores next week, and as of yet we have no intention of selling them through the book trade (meaning Amazon will be a no-go). We just don't have enough of them to risk any of them getting tied up in a distributor's inventory.That's fine but Amazon has it available for pre-order and people are buying it there.
The post was simply data - nothing more, nothing less.
Data that means jack. :-)
One of the guys in my group works at Amazon, and he was telling us that 4E is one of the most returned books they've had. He didn't go into a lot of detail, but apparently, the majority of those who do return it are older players who buy it, unsure of what changes have been made between older editions and 4E, and are then disappointed in what they find. I'm not sure if they followed the progression from 2nd edition to 3E to 3.5, so I can't say which edition it has been compared to.
Who knew you could return books to Amazon because you don't like them?
Seriously, I honestly didn't know that even was dooable until after the 4e launch I began reading people's posts online saying they'd done just that.
Again we have an offline source backing up what the supposed tiny minority are saying online.
Again proves nothing, again I find it interesting at least.
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Just to add another bit of data - the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is currently #100 on Amazon's top 100 books.
Edit: Pathfinder Beta is #27,305
To be fair using that comparison is very inacurate since The FGCG is not available as a free download. Although do have a question for you yhe beta is 27,305 on a chart of how many?
Sanity check time:
Okay gang - you can't say such things as "It's got legs" and "Viva la revolution" over the strong sales of Pathfinder Beta in the thread Pathfinder Beta Sells Out and then turn around and say that the sales that WotC has been enjoying concerning 4E aren't indicative of success. Its like having an orange in both hands and trying to convince me only one is the real orange - the other, we don't know yet.
Hm, on the one hand I kinda agree with you here - yes early rush buying of Pathfinder Beta isn't really a guarantee of amazing success for the game down the line.
However, on the other hand I think there are some important differences between 4e selling hand over fist when it came out, and Pathfinder Beta selling quicker than boiled asparagus at GenCon. 4e was the fourth edition of the biggest rpg ever, there was less chance of it not selling particularly well out the gate than Gordon Brown winning the next election (UK reference to you Yanks) - heck it still sold extremely well despite all the negative reviews flooding the internet within seconds of it hitting the shelves (if not before). Pathfinder Beta on the other hand is theoretically a little nothing, a tpp minnow to WotC and 4e, also it should by rights surely be relatively of minority interest ... well most D&Ders are playing 4e now right? Why would many rush to buy a version of 3.5, that 4e improved upon?
That's the point, that it sold so well does prove something, it proves it has a customer base waiting to buy it, and possibly a pretty large one.
That 4e sold well when it came out, that's expected and inevitable, and I'd have been amazed if it hadn't, that Pathfinder Beta is apparently selling so well was not guaranteed, and brings to mind a big question ... so are all the people buying this game not going with 4e, and what implications does that have for 4e future sales?
Or, it does to me anyway.
I have one thing to say: How fast does boiled asparagus sell?
Edit: Maybe it sells especially fast at Gencon?
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To be fair using that comparison is very inacurate since The FGCG is not available as a free download. Although do have a question for you yhe beta is 27,305 on a chart of how many?Just to add another bit of data - the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is currently #100 on Amazon's top 100 books.
Edit: Pathfinder Beta is #27,305
Well, the Living Kingdoms of Kalamar Guide from several years back is #2,085,612.
I love the Pathfinder stuff but I am also a realist. The gap between Paizo and WotC is like the gap between the Georgian and Russian military. Sure the Georgians surprised the Russians by blowing up more Russian tanks and planes than expected but the Russian walked right over them.
Paizo produces some amazingly cool stuff but they have a long way to go to be playing in the same financial bracket as WotC. Not saying they can't close that gap more each year - just saying that the gap is still very very big.
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However, on the other hand I think there are some important differences between 4e selling hand over fist when it came out, and Pathfinder Beta selling quicker than boiled asparagus at GenCon.
Actually, not true.
If you establish a metric in order to quantify an unknown amount, that metric must apply equally to all items being measured.
For example, if you establish that everyone who is 6’ 4” or taller is to be considered tall, this applies equally for all persons, regardless of the fact that they may trace a genetic pattern of being 6’ or taller in their bloodline. In other words, tall is tall. Expected or unexpected tallness has no bearing in the measurement.
In this case, we’re saying that the metric “sales” applies to Paizo, but doesn’t apply to WotC, and this clearly cannot be true. The measuring stick has to be equal for all. Again, whether the result is expected or unexpected has no bearing here.
As to using the metric of sales figures, this of course leaves way too much grey area. What were the print runs? What were the sales figures? How does this compare to the overall expected market share that each business claims? Like the ancient question, “How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop” – the world may never know. The only thing you and I have to go by is to take the business’s word directly. WotC says, “We done good!” Paizo says, “We done good!” Only guess I can make is that both ‘done good.’ I will add the caveat that as far as I am concerned Paizo’s word has merit, whereas anything spilling from WotC I consider suspect from the beginning.
Therefore, I stand by my initial summation – that if you’re going to use sales as a metric, it has to apply to both items being measured equally, regardless of whether or not the results are expected. I also stand by my summation that, as everyone also has clearly pointed out anyways, sales figures don’t have enough “value” to be a true indicator of success, and that I think the only true measurement of a game’s value is – Is it being played?
As for me, I’ll use both. Expect on my shelf, however, to find a still very clean copy of 4E more often as not, whereas Pathfinder will be the tattered copy on my desk, precariously held together by tape, with notes and tabs sticking out of the pages.
I have one thing to say: How fast does boiled asparagus sell?
Edit: Maybe it sells especially fast at Gencon?
All I can say is you don't want to go into that bathroom. The smell ...
All I can say is you don't want to go into that bathroom. The smell ...I have one thing to say: How fast does boiled asparagus sell?
Edit: Maybe it sells especially fast at Gencon?
Ew. :P
For those of you who are under the impression that the 4th Edition transition will sunder the gaming community like nothing before it, here's a thread from eight years ago this month - right before 3rd Edition was released.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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For those of you who are under the impression that the 4th Edition transition will sunder the gaming community like nothing before it, here's a thread from eight years ago this month - right before 3rd Edition was released.
THAC0 is the reason I never played D&D prior to 3rd edition.
However, like the 2 to 3 transition, you lose some gamers, you gain some new ones, you gain some old ones. The thing that's different is that there wasn't any alternative during the 2-3 era: no Pathfinder to evolve the system and create new adventures, options and ideas. Now we have that and it adds a new wrinkle to the old paradigm. Now you additionally lose some other gamers to the system you just (thought you) rendered obsolete. What WotC needs to do is bring in new gamers. So far the DDI is a non-starter, their advertising has been less than stellar and the Tiny Adventures idea, while a decent start, is suffering from lags and technical issues.
Also, I'm not sure that a cardboard Choose Your Own Adventure knock off is the best way to introduce new players to the game. Seems like they need to get across that D&D is all about choices; you can choice to be anything you want and do anything you want, and TA doesn't quite communicate that message.
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For those of you who are under the impression that the 4th Edition transition will sunder the gaming community like nothing before it, here's a thread from eight years ago this month - right before 3rd Edition was released.
The more things change the more they stay the same:
WOTC is the Disney of RPG companies with its retooling of the world to make it acceptable and politically correct for everyone! Everyone can be a Paladin now. Everyone can be a 99999999999999999th level elf now. Noone need hear the word 'thief' in D&D discussion. Don't worry fighters, you'll advance just as fast as wizards and rogues now. What? Game balance has been destroyed? D&D 3e is nothing more than an RPG video game played on paper? Other than the absence of ability pre-requisites and fun, our game mechanic resembles Palladium's FRPG almost exactly? Our core base of fans that have been with us for twenty years+ feel alienated?
This sounds SO familiar.
For those of you who are under the impression that the 4th Edition transition will sunder the gaming community like nothing before it, here's a thread from eight years ago this month - right before 3rd Edition was released.The more things change the more they stay the same:
WOTC is the Disney of RPG companies with its retooling of the world to make it acceptable and politically correct for everyone! Everyone can be a Paladin now. Everyone can be a 99999999999999999th level elf now. Noone need hear the word 'thief' in D&D discussion. Don't worry fighters, you'll advance just as fast as wizards and rogues now. What? Game balance has been destroyed? D&D 3e is nothing more than an RPG video game played on paper? Other than the absence of ability pre-requisites and fun, our game mechanic resembles Palladium's FRPG almost exactly? Our core base of fans that have been with us for twenty years+ feel alienated?This sounds SO familiar.
What your missing is that their where people who felt that way then, and their are people that feel that way now. And you know what, some of those critisms where true at the time. But they are doubly true now.
The difference is, that this time around, there is a growing company who are producing products of a higher quality products than WotC, with a large online following. paizo never has to take wizards on, it just has to survive and while it produces pathfinder products, there will be little reason for those who either own huge amounts of 3.5 and don't wanna buy a whole new system, those who love 3.5 or 3.p to death and those who just plain prefer the world of Golarion to the stuff wizards are doing, to ever change.
Whys it so hard to accept that actually, this time, something is pretty likely to survive the edition shift and that its ok to prefer 3.5/3.p
For those of you who are under the impression that the 4th Edition transition will sunder the gaming community like nothing before it, here's a thread from eight years ago this month - right before 3rd Edition was released.The more things change the more they stay the same:
WOTC is the Disney of RPG companies with its retooling of the world to make it acceptable and politically correct for everyone! Everyone can be a Paladin now. Everyone can be a 99999999999999999th level elf now. Noone need hear the word 'thief' in D&D discussion. Don't worry fighters, you'll advance just as fast as wizards and rogues now. What? Game balance has been destroyed? D&D 3e is nothing more than an RPG video game played on paper? Other than the absence of ability pre-requisites and fun, our game mechanic resembles Palladium's FRPG almost exactly? Our core base of fans that have been with us for twenty years+ feel alienated?This sounds SO familiar.
Indeed. Bump "twenty years+" to "thirty years+" and change "3e" to 4.0e" (can't forget the decimal point) and I would have believed Razz wrote it.
Whys it so hard to accept that actually, this time, something is pretty likely to survive the edition shift and that its ok to prefer 3.5/3.p
... and who ever said it wasn't ok?
Word. Wizards still has their 3.5 resources online.
Well scotts come pretty close ;)
So to recap:
4E is selling well: Fact
Pathfinder is selling well: Fact
4E is selling more copies than what was projected: Fact
Pathfinder is selling more copies than what was projected: Fact
Some people will only play 3.5/Pathfinder: Fact
Some people will only play 4e: Fact
Some people will play both: Fact
This is a success for WOTC: Fact
This is a success for Paizo: Fact
Hmm...so what are we arguing about?
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So to recap:
4E is selling well: Fact
Pathfinder is selling well: Fact4E is selling more copies than what was projected: Fact
Pathfinder is selling more copies than what was projected: FactSome people will only play 3.5/Pathfinder: Fact
Some people will only play 4e: Fact
Some people will play both: FactThis is a success for WOTC: Fact
This is a success for Paizo: FactHmm...so what are we arguing about?
I have no friggin idea.
Well scotts come pretty close ;)
Pardon?
I've said many times, if not in this thread then in others on this board, that I want Paizo and Pathfinder to thrive. I think that competition in the tabletop RPG market is a good thing, and will result in better products being produced by both companies. I love WotC's dedication to the game, and I love Paizo's ability to weave stories. I don't want to see either fail.
What I do not appreciate is the group of doomsayers declaring that the end of D&D is nigh, or that D&D is now a video game on paper, or that 4th Edition isn't D&D. None of these things are true, and the same nonsense has been repeated over and over. It wasn't true eight years ago, and it sure isn't true now. Is this quarrel put to rest yet?
Well scotts come pretty close ;)Pardon?
I've said many times, if not in this thread then in others on this board, that I want Paizo and Pathfinder to thrive. I think that competition in the tabletop RPG market is a good thing, and will result in better products being produced by both companies. I love WotC's dedication to the game, and I love Paizo's ability to weave stories. I don't want to see either fail.
What I do not appreciate is the group of doomsayers declaring that the end of D&D is nigh, or that D&D is now a video game on paper, or that 4th Edition isn't D&D. None of these things are true, and the same nonsense has been repeated over and over. It wasn't true eight years ago, and it sure isn't true now. Is this quarrel put to rest yet?
4th Edition isn't D&D.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
Well scotts come pretty close ;)Pardon?
I've said many times, if not in this thread then in others on this board, that I want Paizo and Pathfinder to thrive. I think that competition in the tabletop RPG market is a good thing, and will result in better products being produced by both companies. I love WotC's dedication to the game, and I love Paizo's ability to weave stories. I don't want to see either fail.
What I do not appreciate is the group of doomsayers declaring that the end of D&D is nigh, or that D&D is now a video game on paper, or that 4th Edition isn't D&D. None of these things are true, and the same nonsense has been repeated over and over. It wasn't true eight years ago, and it sure isn't true now. Is this quarrel put to rest yet?
4th Edition isn't D&D.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
Oh, you. ;P
You're just in here trying to cause problems!
Hehe.
Just kidding.
Just got the computer running last night on a donor motherboard, installing my programs again.
Right now I'm at working pounding the puppy.
Barring heavy handed censorship by the Party and underseas earthquakes that break fiberoptics to the US, connections here in China are pretty solid.
At home I have kicking broadband.
I'll give you a welcome to the boards Polaris. Always good to see someone else ready to try Pathfinder. Take a look around, we have cookies. :)
As a personal note you said stationed? Military? Always good to have more military folk aboard. Ex-Army here HOOAH!