Going with a "tall" Elf I actually prefer over shorter Elves (it seems more aloof),
but given they're listed as being 20 lbs. LIGHTER while being ~4" taller, the Elf in the line-up looks a BIT too buff for a "Frail" class with -2 CON. I'm not saying that an Elven Warrior with 18 STR or something COULDN'T look like that, but it just doesn't seem like the best visual example to illustrate the Racial stats and abilities.
Otherwise I like the feel of the art, pulpy but still classic Fantasy.
You had me at "Underwear Art." But in all seriousness I really loved the 3.5 PHB art of the races because it made such a good starting point for someone unfamiliar with the game (as I was when first seeing it). I also like the Pathfinder race art, and second wanting to see both sexes of each race.
I agree that the elf is a tad too buff (uhhh, and he's also, ummm, kinda jeleous of what the half-orc is...packing, if you know what I mean)
But anyways, the real question should be...will the female dwarves have beards?
You can always state that the dwarf is shaven...
I'd vote for races dressed in some normal clothes (In D&D it usually means scantily clad females anyway :D) and in full colour like they were in Forgotten Realms setting. And definitely both genders included.
-The Elf is way too buff, I agree. Nothing about him looks different than human. An Elven male should be built more like a female human; lithe and graceful. Elves are usually also depicted with very FAIR skin. Dark skin and white hair? He looks half-drow. Or Night Elf. Both are not standard elves.
-The Dwarf should be completely covered in hair, and the half-orc should have a fair bit of it. Dwarves do not shave. It's agianst their way of life. Especially not their chests.
-Nobody has any toes.
-The builds aren't standardized. The Dwarf is clearly NOT in as good shape as the Elf, and the Half-Orc male fails to give a good idea of a half-orc female. All characters in a picture to show the races need to be set at straight 10s+Racial bonus/penalty, and we need both male and female versions of each.
-The gnome is adorable. Do not change her. Except maybe adding toes.
I also agree that some changes should occur with how the races are depicted. Some of my summary is a repeat of what others have said aleady.
Recommended Changes:
- all the races depicted just look like humans -- I've never felt this before when I've looked at similar race lineups in other sources. The races should be more unique in appearance other than having one trait exaggerated.
- all races should show the male and female versions
- all races should be clothed in tradicial clothing for their race
- dwarves - unless the intent was to show a dwarf that was dishonored and ceremoniously had his hair cut, please restore his hair. It would also be great to see if the dwarven females of PRPG also have facial hair or not.
- halfling - I miss seeing them with their steriotypical pot belly.
- elves - although I am not a fan of "tall elves" the picture should be slimmed down considerably to better convery their frailty, and their faces should be far more "slender and composed looking" as per the elf picture on page 8 of the Campaign Setting.
- human - no change needed (aside from clothes)
- gnome - well, where do I start. It seems there has been a growing desire to change gnomes from their small, dwarven-kin appearance to just slender, cute, fae-ish, large halflings. I kind of preferred the traditional look of gnomes (made them far more unique). With them now being shorter than humans, rather than being shorter than dwarves, now they look like the traditional elf. Not only do they look like old D&D elves, but with their exaggerated "cute" appearance and slim bodies it looks like to me they stepped out of the pages of Elfquest :)
- half-orc - the physique is perhaps a little too exaggerated -- but maybe I'm just being picky now?
- half-elf - no changed needed
-The Elf is way too buff, I agree. Nothing about him looks different than human. An Elven male should be built more like a female human; lithe and graceful. Elves are usually also depicted with very FAIR skin. Dark skin and white hair? He looks half-drow. Or Night Elf. Both are not standard elves.
The elf may be a touch more "buff" than he needs to be. On the other hand, I wouldn't call his skin tone "dark". It's more a pale gray, which I think works well.
I suspect the hair color the artist was going for is "silver", but it just ended up looking like a mix of gray and white, like an old lady's hair. I've never been a fan of white or "silver" hair -- that's what happens to human hair when you get to be a senior citizen. It looks especially stupid for a black-skinned elven race, and I wish people would stop doing that to skin/hair color combinations.
-The Dwarf should be completely covered in hair, and the half-orc should have a fair bit of it. Dwarves do not shave. It's agianst their way of life. Especially not their chests.
I take it you haven't read much Tolkien. He invented orcs, y'know -- and the way Tolkien described them, they never had pig snout noses, tusks, Neanderthal brows, or carpets of fur over their bodies. They also weren't ever described in a way that suggested they were dumb as rocks, either. While I respect a DM's or game world designer's wish to alter a race for his or her own purposes, I'm pretty annoyed with the way people always seem to want to make orcs into a fantasy RPG version of Gamorreans with copious body fuzz. One or two game worlds, fine -- but the majority of versions of the orc? Damn. When do I get to see a game, or game world, that uses Real Orks, aside from the game worlds I've created?
One of the things I liked most about these race portraits was how the half-orcs were depicted in a way that someone might actually want to play one.
edit: The dwarf doesn't look at all like an unhealthy fat guy to me. He looks like an Olympic weightlifter. Just thought I'd clear that up.
-Nobody has any toes.
I noticed that -- and there aren't really any fingers to speak of, either, though at least there's more of a suggestion of fingers than of toes. No biggie, though; it still good art, and it kinda fits the style.
-The builds aren't standardized. The Dwarf is clearly NOT in as good shape as the Elf, and the Half-Orc male fails to give a good idea of a half-orc female. All characters in a picture to show the races need to be set at straight 10s+Racial bonus/penalty, and we need both male and female versions of each.
I guess you've never met a guy with a stout build who's wearing two hundred pounds of muscle. Trust me -- a guy could look like that dwarf and still rip someone who looks like that elf limb from limb. Being "cut" (i.e., having obvious muscle definition) is not the same as being physically powerful.
As for the idea of a half-orc female -- I'm afraid they'd disappoint me by making the female look stupid the way World of Warcraft did.
I'm okay with the assumption of physical stats being higher than 10. After all, we're showing examples of races for PCs. Player characters are usually above average. Who wants to choose an example from amongst a bunch of guys with beer bellies, or girls with flabby arms and chubby hips, when imagining how a character's going to look?
-The gnome is adorable. Do not change her. Except maybe adding toes.
That was too amusing for words.
- dwarves - unless the intent was to show a dwarf that was dishonored and ceremoniously had his hair cut, please restore his hair. It would also be great to see if the dwarven females of PRPG also have facial hair or not.
Nice of you to assume everybody's game worlds must assign exactly the same cultural norms to dwarves that you do in yours.
Besides, he doesn't look so much like his hair was cut so much as it just started falling out in middle age. He looks like he's going bald.
. . . unless your complaint is the fact his beard isn't long enough to trip over.
- halfling - I miss seeing them with their steriotypical pot belly.
I don't. I always hated the "fat busybody with furry feet" idea. I'm all for some (more) traditional treatment of orcs, but not for halflings -- which may seem like a double standard unless you stop to consider that the traditional "hobbit" style halfling is a damned cartoonish joke, and the common carpet-furred Gamorrean treatment of orcs who can't add 2 + 2 and get 4 is also a damned cartoonish joke. Meanwhile, the image of each in the PRPG racial portraits looks like something worth playing for more than laughs.
- gnome - well, where do I start. It seems there has been a growing desire to change gnomes from their small, dwarven-kin appearance to just slender, cute, fae-ish, large halflings. I kind of preferred the traditional look of gnomes (made them far more unique).
Really? You think making them look like smaller dwarves somehow made them more "unique"? I'm afraid I can't really agree with that assessment.
With them now being shorter than humans, rather than being shorter than dwarves, now they look like the traditional elf.
My thought was that, with them being taller than two-foot-nothing, they are no longer quite so ridiculous. For the first time in twenty years, I have a game world in which gnomes look the way they're depicted in the game book.
Not only do they look like traditional elves now, but with their exaggerated "cute" appearance and slim bodies it looks like to me they stepped out of the pages of Elfquest :)
Just how short do you think elves should be? I thought elves were supposed to be attractive. I wonder how anyone could find someone attractive who looks like his eight year old brother or sister.
- half-orc - the physique is perhaps a little too exaggerated -- but maybe I'm just being picky now?
Yes, you are. Did you notice the +2 Strength?
The elf may be a touch more "buff" than he needs to be. On the other hand, I wouldn't call his skin tone "dark". It's more a pale gray, which I think works well.I suspect the hair color the artist was going for is "silver", but it just ended up looking like a mix of gray and white, like an old lady's hair. I've never been a fan of white or "silver" hair -- that's what happens to human hair when you get to be a senior citizen. It looks especially stupid for a black-skinned elven race, and I wish people would stop doing that to skin/hair color combinations.
It's a matter of aesthetics. I like the contrast myself.
I take it you haven't read much Tolkien. He invented orcs, y'know --
The fantasy image of an organized army of bestial creatures called "orc" came from Tolkien, but orcs were folklore monsters long before him. Charles Perrault had orcs in some of his stories, and they appear in a lot of traditional fairy tales.
and the way Tolkien described them, they never had pig snout noses, tusks, Neanderthal brows, or carpets of fur over their bodies. They
He said they had flat noises and wide mouths, if I recall. The rest is artistic license and borrowed from the folklore versions of hairy bogey-men. The words "Orc" and "Ogre" were interchangeable until Tolkien and other fantasy authors made them separate. The word "orc" is related to the word for swine in many Indo-European languages and the pig association comes from that.
also weren't ever described in a way that suggested they were dumb as rocks, either.
Sam fooled them easily if that's any indication. They certainly weren't known for their intellect or love of academia. They were into fighting and eating and that's about it. It's not a stretch to assume they weren't very bright or came from a poor educational system.
While I respect a DM's or game world designer's wish to
alter a race for his or her own purposes, I'm pretty annoyed with the way people always seem to want to make orcs into a fantasy RPG version of Gamorreans with copious body fuzz. One or two game worlds, fine -- but the majority of versions of the orc? Damn. When do I get to see a game, or game world, that uses Real Orks, aside from the game worlds I've created?
"Real orks?" They are mythological and fantasy creatures. You can have whatever spin you want on them, just like other authors have created myriad versions of vampires. If you want to respect Tolkien's version that is fine, but no one interpretation is more valid. If you go with majority rule, most fantasy literature regards them as big stupid brutes.
In my campaign, they are anti-intellectual and bellicose, but only some are evil. They have a strong sense of honour and tradition and are known for their piety to the gods.
Star Wars Gamorreans were based on orcs, not the other way around.
One of the things I liked most about these race portraits was how the half-orcs were depicted in a way that someone...
He looks more like a noble savage in a Klingon kind of way. You get a sense of at least average intelligence and honour from him.
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Much, including:
- all races should show the male and female versions
Total agreement here. I really like the idea of the final version art having pics of the males and females of all the races, even if it means stretching out the 'Underwear Line' to two pages.
- all races should be clothed in tradicial clothing for their race
However, I'd disagree here. I'm perfectly happy with the lack of clothing-- and would probably even be fine with nudity if Pathfinder weren't a family book. ;)
I feel like fluff books and campaign settings can, and probably should, include the extra flavor of regional, racial and thematic clothing examples. But for the base rulebook, all I need is an example of the body style and size comparisons of the races. The iconics already do a pretty good job of showing off a large cross-section of thematic clothing styles and equipment, and further fluff and campaign books will fill that out even more.
- dwarves - unless the intent was to show a dwarf that was dishonored and ceremoniously had his hair cut, please restore his hair. It would also be great to see if the dwarven females of PRPG also have facial hair or not.
- halfling - I miss seeing them with their steriotypical pot belly.
- elves - although I am not a fan of "tall elves" the picture should be slimmed down considerably to better convery their frailty, and their faces should be far more "slender and composed looking" as per the elf picture on page 8 of the Campaign Setting.
- human - no change needed (aside from clothes)
- gnome - well, where do I start. It seems there has been a growing desire to change gnomes from their small, dwarven-kin appearance to just slender, cute, fae-ish, large halflings. I kind of preferred the traditional look of gnomes (made them far more unique). With them now being shorter than humans, rather than being shorter than dwarves, now they look like the traditional elf. Not only do they look like old D&D elves, but with their exaggerated "cute" appearance and slim bodies it looks like to me they stepped out of the pages of Elfquest :)
- half-orc - the physique is perhaps a little too exaggerated -- but maybe I'm just being picky now?
- half-elf - no changed needed
Well, here's the thing: some people do prefer slender, frail-looking elves and some people like deceptively muscled and healthy-looking elves... heck, bring three random fantasy fans together and you probably couldn't get them to give you the same preference of pointed ear, let alone the same ideal 'look'. Some people like round-stomached, roly-poly five-different-types-of-lunches halflings, some people would prefer those types get catapulted into a vat of primordial gelatinous ooze and eaten away in favor of Eberron's version. Or DL's Kender. Or whatever. I've personally never even cared to run a gnome until I saw some of the more recent 'fae' style.
The suggestions you've made here have some bits to them that I agree with, and some with which I disagree. The main problem is that any suggestions of changes to racial 'looks' or the artistic representation of them are going to be based on personal preference, naturally. And that's, pardon me for saying, damned difficult to cater to without getting someone's nose out of whack.
Just to bring this back on track, since this IS the phase where feedback on the Race & Character Generation IS being taken...
I brought this up not because of personal tastes, and I'm not saying that how the Elf was drawn was necessarily 'unrealistic' for, say a 16 or 18 STR Elf warrior. My point was that these images are meant to illustrate the Racial STATS (Stat mods, Height, Weight) that are described in the text.
The entire rest of the book has many illustrations which can depict buff Elves, weak Dwarves, wiry Orcs, etc. I just made this suggestion because I felt that if the Elf was re-drawn, the PURPOSE of the illustration could be better achieved. Commissioning art is expensive, but I thought it might be reasonable that the artist could re-do just the Elf figure for a small fee.
This is now the BETA phase of things, so discussing whether or not you like Jason's choice of making Elves tall is beyond the scope of useful Feedback. Keeping feedback focused and realistic is the best way for it to be taken into account and incorporated into Pathfinder.
I'm all for the setting lore and everything, but the pathfinder elf made even I, the most stalwart defender of the system draw comparisons to world of warcraft's dark elf.
Not cool.
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I really would like to see both male and female examples of each race, preferably grouped by race, not just gender. The co-ed mix shown seems a little deceptive, since mal and females are different sizes and builds.
i agree
keep the art like it is, those with torubles with underwear just turn the page :P or cover the image... its not offensive in the leastI'm all for the setting lore and everything, but the pathfinder elf made even I, the most stalwart defender of the system draw comparisons to world of warcraft's dark elf.
Not cool.
only for the color of skin
lets remember, Tolkien from where all our RPGs came in the end (ok Gigax puts them on paper, which makes him the Father of RPG, while Tolien the Grand Father) portrais the elfs as: taller, stronger, more resiliant and more beautiful than humans...so for me having an elf that looks the part... its right on my books
But anyways, the real question should be...will the female dwarves have beards?I think they are going to keep the underwear on so it is a question that may never be answered... >;)
OHHHHHH You meant on their faces!!! sorry
Wow, You went there... You actually went there.
*laughs*
Barkeep, this elf's got the dwarf's bar tab for tonight. (Just don't tell him though, I'm not as buff as the elf in the illustration!)
BTW, I agree with the sentiment that the racial depictions should include both males and females of each race using their average ability scores. Might I recommend brown-bagging the female half-orcs though? *shudder*
Actually its the only bad art in the book. Looks like computer clip art to me. Moreover had they used some realy good art pices like they do for the classes, you could have racial icon characters, which to me would be a great boom if for no other reason we'd get a half-orc icon. Even if that isn't an option, this art has to be replaced.
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I really would like to see both male and female examples of each race, preferably grouped by race, not just gender. The co-ed mix shown seems a little deceptive, since mal and females are different sizes and builds.i agree
keep the art like it is, those with torubles with underwear just turn the page :P or cover the image... its not offensive in the least
That's not quite what I was saying. Dressed, underwear, or even completely nude wouldn't bother me. Nor does the actual art style. What I was requesting was a male and female example, side by side, of each race. Trying to compare the male elf to the female human doesn't really give me a good idea of the difference between the races, since they are eclipsed by the gender differences.
Aside, the gnome girl is cute as a button and should stay the way she is regardless of other changes!
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That's not quite what I was saying. Dressed, underwear, or even completely nude wouldn't bother me. Nor does the actual art style. What I was requesting was a male and female example, side by side, of each race. Trying to compare the male elf to the female human doesn't really give me a good idea of the difference between the races, since they are eclipsed by the gender differences.
Aside, the gnome girl is cute as a button and should stay the way she is regardless of other changes!
jeje not you
but someone else emntioned to change the art, or to dress them...i quoted your comment because i AGREE to see both male and female from each class... and only ask for NEW ones (elven female, male human and half elf, etc) the ones that are there i already like a lot :)
maybe let that and just make another drawing with the ones that are missing :)
But anyways, the real question should be...will the female dwarves have beards?Not if James Jacobs has anything to say about it.
Sideburns at most. Feminine sideburns.
Like, braided or something.
...
No sideburns plz.
And gamers at my table will be rejoicing if that comes to be (that they don't have beards). I've got a player or two that really like Dwarves, but really hate playing a bearded women or the thought of kissing one! *lol* So, naturally, something about that always comes into play at least ONCE in a campaign just to mess them and to give them those dreaded "visuals" in their heads. ;)
Director of Games
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Hi there all,
Before this gets too off topic, this particular piece of art is going to be reordered for the final book and there are certainly going to be some adjustments to bring them in line with the current look of our races.
And no... dwarven women will not have beards.
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Ok I'll start with general then move onto specifics.
Having the character examples at straight 10's would be pretty pointless since no memorable surviving character isn't extraordinary in at least a couple of stats.
I support the underwear shots because it gives a great example of the true phisiques and because I like the art.
Assuming that these are meant to be player character models, they all have abilities in the heroic spectrum. As such the idealized figures makes sense.
I agree that the shot should include both genders of each race.
Now the specifics.
Dwarf.
High Con High Wisdom. It is quite possible to have a stout build and extremely healthy, in fact often such a build belongs to someone who with regular exercise would be very likely to shrug off a lot. The big cheerful grin however does nothing to reflect the -2 charisma from being Gruff.
Halfling. The bonus to Charisma could be played up either through body language or features. I like that you didn't go with the pot belly. Most Halfling players go the swift and dextrous route.
Elf. I like the difference from the usual. Feels more Tolkienesque.Weird coloration could indicate decreased Con. You can be muscular and unhealthy.
Human. Obviously her 2 points went to Charisma.
Gnome. They look inherently magical and fey which works really well. The bodylanguage and cuteness definitely speaks to the Charisma bonus.
Half Orc. Looks like a 20 strength should. Kinda what I expect a half orc to look like. Mean, scary yet able to exist in society.
Half elf. Her points went to Dex. Nice blend of human and elf.
I take it you haven't read much Tolkien. He invented orcs, y'know --The fantasy image of an organized army of bestial creatures called "orc" came from Tolkien, but orcs were folklore monsters long before him. Charles Perrault had orcs in some of his stories, and they appear in a lot of traditional fairy tales.
Er, no -- last I checked, Perrault wrote Little Red Riding Hood and Sleeping Beauty, not The Two Towers. Which stories of Perrault's included orcs? Please enlighten us.
and the way Tolkien described them, they never had pig snout noses, tusks, Neanderthal brows, or carpets of fur over their bodies. TheyHe said they had flat noises and wide mouths, if I recall. The rest is artistic license and borrowed from the folklore versions of hairy bogey-men. The words "Orc" and "Ogre" were interchangeable until Tolkien and other fantasy authors made them separate. The word "orc" is related to the word for swine in many Indo-European languages and the pig association comes from that.
Citizens of Nigeria typically have flat noses and wide mouths, too. They don't, however, have pig snouts, tusks, Neanderthal brows, or carpets of fur over their bodies.
The word "Orc" actually came from an Anglo-Saxon word for "demon", which is supposed by some to be derived from "Orcus", the name of a god of oaths (and not a demonic god of the undead, as AD&D 1st Edition had it). It had nothing to do with pigs.
also weren't ever described in a way that suggested they were dumb as rocks, either.Sam fooled them easily if that's any indication. They certainly weren't known for their intellect or love of academia. They were into fighting and eating and that's about it. It's not a stretch to assume they weren't very bright or came from a poor educational system.
I'm fine with orcs having no love for academia and no typical access to a good educational system -- but these things are not identical with native intelligence. In one PRPG game world, I have moved the orcish stat penalty from Intelligence somewhere else, but in another that I'm still building I'm planning to just rename "Intelligence" so that it relates more to scholarship than intellect, and adjust some minor effects of that stat on the game to suit -- because, as I pointed out, education is not the same thing as intelligence.
As for being tricked -- well, if that's the deciding factor, I guess dragons should have INT penalties (Smaug was tricked), demigods should have INT penalties (Sauron too), halflings should have INT penalties (yes, I remember some hobbits getting tricked), dwarves should have INT penalties (ditto), and so on. Damn. I guess everyone should just be dumb as rocks according to stat modifiers, if we're going to base it on whether or not a member of a given race has been tricked by someone in Tolkien's books.
"Real orks?" They are mythological and fantasy creatures.
Really? I thought they were real creatures.
Oh, wait -- no I didn't. Would you like to stop insinuating I'm an imbecile now?
If you go with majority rule, most fantasy literature regards them as big stupid brutes.
I take it you didn't bother to read the take on them at the Real Orks link, since you just decided to mention a "majority rules" take on the race and didn't actually address, y'know, any of my actual objections to the "hairy pig" version.
Star Wars Gamorreans were based on orcs, not the other way around.
I'm aware orcs came before Gamorreans. Why are you telling me this? Is this some odd sort of straw man fallacy?
Maybe some people want to do mor with orcs then just.. Oh rip off Tolkien ? I mean god knows people never take words that sound like words or words from other languages and use them for completely different things or things that are kinda alike but not exactly the same..
And no... dwarven women will not have beards.
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
This is an outrage! Am I suppose to go shave now?
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Assuming that these are meant to be player character models, they all have abilities in the heroic spectrum. As such the idealized figures makes sense.
I agree that the shot should include both genders of each race.
I agree with this, it wont be fun to have the same drawing of the paltry commoners or skinny nobles... its a game of heroes... and heroes they shoul look like (heroes like in the old grece where you where a hero not because fo your good deeds... but because you did GREAT things)
Dwarf.
High Con High Wisdom. It is quite possible to have a stout build and extremely healthy, in fact often such a build belongs to someone who with regular exercise would be very likely to shrug off a lot. The big cheerful grin however does nothing to reflect the -2 charisma from being Gruff.
he just had a beer or got his gold, even an old gruf can eb cheerful in good times... also he pretty much looks the part of the least gruff of his races... he is Happy:D
Elf. I like the difference from the usual. Feels more Tolkienesque.Weird coloration could indicate decreased Con. You can be muscular and unhealthy.
good! other one that thinks like me :)
Half elf. Her points went to Dex. Nice blend of human and elf.
i am with you, i liked the mix, not to human, not too elf... i would have liked to see the eyes to see how alien are they... elves have very alien eyes, i liked that... but i would have wanted to see howmuch of this does the half-elf has (i am playing one right now, but with the +2 thrown in Wisdom)
I vote for both genders in the same picture of the races.
Maybe some people want to do mor with orcs then just.. Oh rip off Tolkien ? I mean god knows people never take words that sound like words or words from other languages and use them for completely different things or things that are kinda alike but not exactly the same..
Do more? Great.
My idea of "more" involves stuff like "rich culture", "interesting alternate origins", and so on. It doesn't involve "stupid pig-people who are a cartoonish variety of evil".
I mean god knows people never take words that sound like words or words from other languages and use them for completely different things or things that are kinda alike but not exactly the same..
Yeah, Heaven forbid people should be able to communicate clearly with one another and know precisely what they are talking about. I mean, without ambiguity and misunderstanding we might build another Tower of Babel or something...
I mean god knows people never take words that sound like words or words from other languages and use them for completely different things or things that are kinda alike but not exactly the same..Yeah, Heaven forbid people should be able to communicate clearly with one another and know precisely what they are talking about. I mean, without ambiguity and misunderstanding we might build another Tower of Babel or something...
My point was Tolkiens entire volume of lore was based on taking other languages and words from them and subtley <sometimes granted not so subtle> tweaking or mixing them and their originating cultures myths, culture, and paradigms to get his things.. The hypocrisy of all the complaining when people due the same thing to his myths makes me go a big rubbery one.
Another example of this is the names of many of the demons and devils in D&D were taken from the names and themes of 'actual' demons and changed a bit who were themselves often times variations on the names or personalities of pagan gods.
Yet another is the Vampire.. Ranging from its older plague zombie cursed by god form to the newer 'Buffy' vampire. Thousands of people throughout the years have added subtracted or taken away a power here and a weakness there from vampires to better fit the world view of an author or game designer.
Why are the gnomes and halflings both so daggone petite? Look at their depictions in 1e, and now fast-forward to 2008. They've all been Kate Moss-ized. With two Small races, you'd think at least one of them wouldn't need to be anorexic.
Yet another is the Vampire.. Ranging from its older plague zombie cursed by god form to the newer 'Buffy' vampire. Thousands of people throughout the years have added subtracted or taken away a power here and a weakness there from vampires to better fit the world view of an author or game designer.
On the plus side, at least vampires haven't developed tusks, pig snouts, and hairy backs, or inexplicably lost 20 IQ points when nobody was looking.
Thank goodness for the non-ridiculous appearance of half-orcs in the racial comparison images, even if the average half-orc still has all the reasoning capability of someone with fetal alcohol syndrome whose head got caught in a cotton gin, judging by stat modifiers.
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Hi there all,
Before this gets too off topic, this particular piece of art is going to be reordered for the final book and there are certainly going to be some adjustments to bring them in line with the current look of our races.
And no... dwarven women will not have beards.
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Huzzah!!!! I've never played female dwarves with beards!
Now as for my other thoughts, I like the images, yes I would like to see an image for both genders, and yes I think the elf should be more slender.
The only thing I would really edit...is the Elf ears! I recently starting playing WoW myself, it's fun, yes I made a night elf...but those dang ears!!!! Arrgh...they flop around everywhere and now that Pathfinder has those ears too...too many jokes at the table with "Ummm do you mind, your ear is in the way."
But other than that I like it.
O and one question in regards to races...Will Pathfinder RPG introduce the different Subraces?? We have it for the humans (See Gazzetteer), and with the second darkness comes Drow...but what of the others? Hill Dwarves, Mtn Dwarves, Duergar, Deep Dwarves, Wood Elves, Wild Elves...etc.
On the plus side, at least vampires haven't developed tusks, pig snouts, and hairy backs, or inexplicably lost 20 IQ points when nobody was looking.Thank goodness for the non-ridiculous appearance of half-orcs in the racial comparison images, even if the average half-orc still has all the reasoning capability of someone with fetal alcohol syndrome whose head got caught in a cotton gin, judging by stat modifiers.
No just klingon foreheads Emo personalities and hot-topic shopping binges.
Eh.. Your average orc has an 80 or 90 IQ.. 80 is barely enough to be considered retarded and is more like either Forest Gump or Lemmy from mice and men.. They're not drooling mongoloids they just have a problem analyzing and sorting complex nonlinear information in their heads. I while I might not be the fondest of the 'pig head' orcs save for the style of them I saw by one particular artist do rather like the new more gorilla looking ones It even inspired me to take some aspects of gorilla society and wrap it into the orcs in one of my camaigns. Hell even the new Lord of the Rings movies has them closer resembling modern fantasy orcs then the ones tolkien had written.. They even make pig noises.
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I really would like to see both male and female examples of each race, preferably grouped by race, not just gender. The co-ed mix shown seems a little deceptive, since mal and females are different sizes and builds.
Group pictures of each race would be nifty. Maybe a few examples of each gender per race, to get an idea of what an old elf, a young elf, a warrior-elf, and a sage-elf all might look like. Male and female, young and old, various jobs.
Of course, that makes a lot more work for the exceptional artists!
No just klingon foreheads Emo personalities and hot-topic shopping binges.
On the plus side, at least vampires haven't developed tusks, pig snouts, and hairy backs, or inexplicably lost 20 IQ points when nobody was looking.
No interpretation of vampires that fits that mold will appear in any game I run. I'm no bigot -- I hate all stupidity equally.
my main request is to change the elf's ears. I'm getting used to the big-eared elf thing, but the elf's ears in the picture are broader than his shoulders. He'd have to turn his head sideways to fit through a door.
DOn't change the ears! Otherwise the orc barbarians would be left out of necklace charms or a real handy place to grab and moop the floor with the elf. Also without those ears the elves would get nasty shoulder sun burns; plus elf wizard's familiar wouldn't be so comfy on the elf shoulder with a nice "roof" over... :P
He'd have to turn his head sideways to fit through a door.
Those are ears -- not horns. They're surely kinda flexible, and an elf can probably even move them around a bit.
The new gnome looks like Cyndi Lauper. I must say that I like the "garden gnome" look better and intend to stick with it in my homebrew campaign. Conical red caps for the win!