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Looks like a mean ranger to me...

MAXIMILLION KURSK
Male half-orc Ranger 1

What? Is his dad a Fortune 500? Does his mom breed horses? lol J/K

How can something that wasn't there before throw you headfirst into the grave? How did all those 3e characters survive for 8 years?

Talk about exaggerating.

We aren't talking about 3e. We're talking about whether this rule should be in there at all. It's alright if it stays there, I guess. I won't be using it ever, though. I never used the AC=d20+Armor optional rule either and that was something I thought was interesting.

We're talking about 20 hp at level 20. 1 hp per level. Less than what you get for toughness.

Yes, that's right. We're talking about something that's not quite as good as one feat.

Keep talking about exaggerating

True.

Being punished by not sticking to the stereotypes with 1 hp per level or 1 skill point per level.

Being punished by not sticking to the stereotypes with bonuses in abilities you have no use for, or penalties in abilities you could use only too well, or racial traits you cannot use.

Potato.

Potato.

Yes, exactly. So why have both? Why have extra advantages besides the ones that already are there and actually make sense?

Your whole "OP wont be happy till everyone is exactly the same because it's punishment" makes no sense when the thing your defending is so annoyingly simple and over done. It's bland in it's own right and doesn't fit.

FC Wizard should give you a bonus to your casting, not what's basically +2 Con.
FC Barbarian should give a bonus to rage points
FC Fighter, bonus feat or a higher AB
FC Ranger, Keener senses in the wild than other ill-suited rangers

Instead, its a flat +1 Hp/level that is strong but completely lacks any rhyme or reason besides no personality or +1 rank/level which isn't that bad. Capped Skills are still in effect so that wouldn't be overpowering. Though, the Half-orc having less reason to care about Int doesn't sit well with me personally. Especially when one of his Favored Classes is the archetypal "dumb" guy.

By that same reasoning, racial traits punish those who don't want to stick to those stereotypes.

An elven fighter is punished twice over, at least: His spell penetration racial ability is wasted, along with his int bonus, and his con penalty means he's a frail fighter.

A dwarf sorcerer is also punished, because he doesn't have that spell penetration, and because he gets a cha penalty.

They ARE punished for being different and that's cool. But it should be enough. Not playing to racial norms does put one foot in the grave in exchange for being different but that bonus to HP or skills throws the different guy headfirst into the grave.

All Elf rangers and wizards now don't have to be so mindful of their low Con, Half-Orc Barbarians have more skill points so who needs intelligence anyway?. Dwarven fighters are even more hardy even though their traits made them excel as fighters already.

Factor in that if the DM has a team of people using favored classes and one guy who's the oddball, not only is he not optimized but the dungeon is set up to be of moderate difficulty for players who have more HP than him for no real reason or also more skill ranks for no real reason. Tougher monsters for tougher heroes and higher DC's for higher skills. The dungeon CR becomes too much at higher levels for the oddball until he becomes that guy in the party who's effectively 1 or 2 levels weaker.

Also, the OP never said anything about making them the same. You're exaggerating to an obscene amount.

Other than that I do agree they are kind of lackluster beside humans... not really badly but a little bit.

I think it makes sense that they they be sort of not as good as an elf but not as good as a human, either. It's makes sense, maybe they can also have resistances that show the advantages of being a mishmash of genes?

"Rangers only can't take half-breeds as a favored enemy because their behavior and instincts are hard to study thanks to the varying degrees of elven or human traits. A ranger may only use 3/4 of their favored bonus, rounded down on any half-breed. If you have favored both parent races use the full bonus of the highest favored enemy."
or
"Spell effects ment to harm only one specific parent race of the half-elf has a harder time harming a creature that is only a half-blood. +X on saves against those spells. No save bonuses if the spell can hurt both parent races."
or
"Damage Resistance X vs. Slayer weapons for either parent race."

P.S. Just reread the elf, human and half-elf stats and I have to say I actually like where they are. I actually would like to play a half-elf. I would pause over whether I should go human or half-elf instead. They definitely have their advantages over humans and elves by being a mix of both.

Ok James can accept that for Gnomes..as a fey race a lighter build is perfectly feasible..but hobbits..err halflings should be chunky peasant types..

Hobbit is right. Should chunky peasants have a dex bonus in the first place? The whole chunky and hairy pad feet thing is something that was nixed to be less like Tolkien and LotR halflings weren't exactly dexterous in any way. They weren't too charismatic either...they were mostly cowardly and afraid of outsiders, except Gandalf of course. Halflings were redesigned as looking as nimble as their stats suggest and with the virtuous traits of the hobbits who were in the fellowship who were mentioned many times as being highly unusual for hobbits, Merry and Peregrin especially.

With Gnomes being fey like now, though, it would make sense for them to get the Dex bonus to give them that elusive flavor that gnomes are famed for. In turn, Hobbits can bulk up a little in the waist area and get the con bonus. They can be the like hardy dwarves in that they can eat and drink just about anything with suspicious ingredients without much trouble.

This should at least be available for half-breeds. A Half-Orc shouldn't be immediately familiar with Orcish weapons if he was raised exclusively by humans. There should be some kind of choice for them much like how sorcerors choose a heritage path. Nothing as continuous but a one time choice at 1st level, like

Half-Elf
Adaptability or Weapon Familiarity?

Half-Orc
Pretty much the same as above or maybe a "bully" bonus since a human raised half-orc may be used to using his fierce appearance and brute strength to intimidate his weaker neighbors. This would emphasize the common mean and sullen half-orc archetype though Adaptability brings out their human side more.

I also found the broad shouldered Elf to be...deceptive..he looks less like a toned and agile warrior of the forest or scholarly mage and more like he's waiting for someone to hand him his full-plate and giant great sword. Shouldn't these models not only exemplify heroes of their individual races but also the very traits that their races have to offer? I.E. 20 Str Half-Orc, 20 Con Dwarf, 20 Dex Halfling. The elf looks like he dropped his points in Str and Con.

Also, I agree with the ears...too big and the half elf's got some big ones too. Though that can be fixed with some fluff explainning how elves can move their ears. Who does the art on these? Is it a free-lance or someone on the team?

Little note on Myth: Orcus is the god of the undead. Orc is based on Orcneus (sp?) which essentially means corpse. That's also probably where Jackson had the idea of filming that whole "birthed from the earth" scene.
I also have a book on mythological creatures that mentions an old tale, roman in origin I think, where in one part the hero fights a vicious Orke. The monster was a Man with the head of a pig. The text in the book mentions its unlikely Tolkien ever read the story since its pretty obscure and he was more of a celtic lore buff but the heavily roman myth influenced 1st ed D&D may have used this "orc" so as to further themselves from the whole Tolkien thing. Atleast enough to not be sued anyway.

The only problem I have with Wisdom is that it will cause many to go Druid. That's cool but it shouldn't be so common place outside of an Eberron setting. This also is focused on because of their favored classes, Barbarian...and Druid? No...None of the text even mentions htat they are inherently spiritualistic.

How about changing the favored classes for Half-Orcs to Barbarian/Rogue? It emphasizes their preference for more physical classes and works with their fluff. I didnt read anything about Half-Orc druids in the beta's description text but it did mention that many orcs become criminals. The Wis bonus is also helpful for the many wisdom based classes the rogue uses for scouting. It also shows a dinstinct orc/human contrast to how Laf-Orcs grow up in either society.

The Rogue would be from the dark alleys of human cities who is street-mart and has no respect for the law and miles away from there you have the barbarian, a son of the orc chieftain who has a short temper and is quick to prove his worth to his full-blood kin.

It also helps out with the half-races. No need to make half-elves and half-human elf variants. You just have their base genetic traits and then have selectable regional or cultural traits that represent their parentage. Also what Jal Dorak said, obviously. It would really cut down on character creation time when figuring balance and all that.

Part of what makes Half-Orcs weak and, for that reason, uninteresting or flat out despised by a lot of people is that they have almost nothing going for them in 3rd. The main reason being that they were just slightly less screwed orcs with nothing that made them human. Wisdom makes perfect sense to orcs and half-orcs to me.

What eats me about Orcs is they shouldn't even exist in any setting. Orcs in LotR definitely had a positive wisdom score, at least the few that lasted more than three pages. One thing about LotR as well is that this basic idea of orcs that came from those books doesnt count for D&D orcs. LotR orcs are artificial, they literally were created for death and destruction. They are like dogs of war, bred for one purpose and after they no longer are needed will be put down.

I just don't see the logic of a species of manbeasts having such harsh penalties for an ability score that is so married to animal instincts. Any creature with no sense, no basic intelligence and not even the ability to persuade anyone or anything diplomatically or at least by force of personality, who lives in the wild and savage wilderness, who is at constant war with the advanced, arcane wielding elves, the war machine that is dwarven strength and military skill (not to mention specific anti orc training)and the humans who we know first hand are capable of whatever it takes to survive. With these factors put into account.... WHY AREN'T ORCS EXTINCT?!