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Also, as a general question, am I the only DM who's group experimented with the 3-dragon ante method that came out in dragon a while ago? that also seemed to give some decent scores, maybe a little high, and my players were able to read all kinds of fluff into the readings. we may end up going back to that.The 3-Dragon-Ante reading shuffles the scores around, but doesn't actually make them any higher or lower than whatever point-buy method you'd choose to start with. It gives a character's pre-adventuring history, though, and a lot of players like that.
I absolutely love the three-dragon ante system! ...too bad there isn't a Harrow system.
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I absolutely love the three-dragon ante system! ...too bad there isn't a Harrow system.Also, as a general question, am I the only DM who's group experimented with the 3-dragon ante method that came out in dragon a while ago? that also seemed to give some decent scores, maybe a little high, and my players were able to read all kinds of fluff into the readings. we may end up going back to that.The 3-Dragon-Ante reading shuffles the scores around, but doesn't actually make them any higher or lower than whatever point-buy method you'd choose to start with. It gives a character's pre-adventuring history, though, and a lot of players like that.
...yet! when I get home i'm going to begin work on making one!
although much like every other project i set out to do, i'll prolly never complete this due to laziness. It would be awesome if we got some kind of "official" harrow deck generation system.
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I'm old school. In my homebrew we use the classic, organic 3d6 six times, in order. Players may reject the character and reroll as often as they would like, within reason, but generally three or four times is sufficient. This system serves the theme and style of our homebrew, and it makes the racial modifiers far more significant, which I like.
In our Pathfinder campaign we use the standard point buy, however.
Our group loved the Organic roll system, which is why they enjoyed the 3 dragon ante system too. they had about as much control over it, and got some interesting characters out fo the mix.
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Great ideas guys, there are a few in here that I am thinking about snagging for the final book... especially the one where you pay the GM a buck..
:-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Yeah, you liked the 400+d6 method I posted. You can just picture all the dice being purchased by players through the website....
It's a gold-mine, I tell ya!|
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My favorite stat generation method of all uses playing cards.
Take two aces, the four deuces (twos), three threes, three fours, four fives, and four sixes (a total of twenty cards). Set aside two of the deuces and shuffle the remaining cards.
Now deal these eighteen cards out into six piles of three; their totals indicate your six scores. Take the two discarded deuces and put each deuce on any score you like, increasing that score by two points. You can even put them both on the same score. The catch is that no score can exceed 18.Now assign each score to an ability, and you're finished. What I like about this method is that while there is some randomness (in how the cards are allotted), every character has roughly equivalent stats. Furthermore, you get to choose where those deuces go, which can give you some control over your final scores. And if you're not satisfied with the power curve, you can change the collection of cards to adjust up or down as you see fit.
Some sample arrays generated via cards (given before floating deuces):
16, 16, 10, 13, 7, 9
10, 11, 12, 14, 14, 10
12, 12, 10, 17, 13, 7
I tried this last night using 3 Dragon Ante cards and it worked beautifully. It gives a 12.5 average ability and makes some interesting stats if used in order. I figured out that I would let the players deal out 2 sets of stats and pick one for their main character and use the other for a backup PC. I did 10 sets of stats(I test dealt as if 2 sets each for 5 players) and here is what I came up with before adding in the floating dueces.
16,12,11,11,8,136,15,14,13,13,10
-----------------
9,8,17,15,9,13
13,13,12,8,14,11
-----------------
12,7,13,10,11,18
15,12,9,10,12,13
-----------------
12,11,15,8,8,17
16,11,14,11,13,6
-----------------
11,10,7,17,11,15
14,12,10,13,10,12
I think this gives some decent choices especially when you figure in the two floating 2's that can be added to any stat without exceeding 18.
You can pretty much add the 2's to any sets and come up with just about any class you wish to play with one set or the other.
Conclusion....
Good method! Thanks for posting it.
I'm a fan of the classic 4d6 drop lowest method... you often wind up with characters with 7s or 8s which makes role playing a bit more interesting. Some other methods I've tried:
Party Roles: Everyone roles 4d6 and drops the lowest. Players can chose whichever set of scores they like best (often they all wind up with the same array but not always). <- Works best for groups of 3-5
Muligan rules: Everyone goofs up sometimes. If the first array of stats sucks the player can throw it out and reroll. If the second array sucks as well then he can reroll with 3d6 and 5 - 4d6 roles dropping the lowest of the 5. Players can keep rerolling losing a die each time (2 3d6 roles, 4 4d6 roles, etc..)
Great ideas guys, there are a few in here that I am thinking about snagging for the final book... especially the one where you pay the GM a buck..
:-)
:)
All of the following are before racial modifiers are applied.
1) Coin Method
We used this method when didn't have any dice after moving.
Toss 20 coins of the same type. Heads are 1s and tails are 0s. Count the heads and record the score. Repeat 6 times. If you come up with more than 18 heads, you can assign the extra to other scores that are below 16. Then, arrange the six scores as you would like.
2) 5d4 - 2, repeat 6 times, arrange as desired
Most scores turn out to be 10.
3) Random point assignment.
Roll 9d12. For each score, subtract from the total you received. There is no difference in values. A score of 3 is 3 points and 18 is 18 points.
4) Getting to know your character method.
All stats start at 10. You may voluntarily lower any stat to a minimum of 3 and redistribute the points to other stats. As you complete each of the following, you add another 4 points that can be distributed to any ability scores you choose:
* Create a sketch or find a picture of your character.
* Bring a fully painted mini of your character.
* Write a background history of your character, minimum 1 page.
* Create a family tree for your character going back to his great-grandfather. All immediate family members must have short descriptions.
* Create a list of goals (min 5) for your character. Explain how and why he needs to achieve them.
* Come to one game session dressed as your character and stay in character the entire session (within reason).
* Bring all players refreshments and snacks to the game for one day.
Failure to do any of the above at a time set by the GM will result in points being subtracted.
4) Getting to know your character method.
All stats start at 10. You may voluntarily lower any stat to a minimum of 3 and redistribute the points to other stats. As you complete each of the following, you add another 4 points that can be distributed to any ability scores you choose:
* Create a sketch or find a picture of your character.
* Bring a fully painted mini of your character.
* Write a background history of your character, minimum 1 page.
* Create a family tree for your character going back to his great-grandfather. All immediate family members must have short descriptions.
* Create a list of goals (min 5) for your character. Explain how and why he needs to achieve them.
* Come to one game session dressed as your character and stay in character the entire session (within reason).
* Bring all players refreshments and snacks to the game for one day.Failure to do any of the above at a time set by the GM will result in points being subtracted.
Man, I hope my DM never requires me to do homework. I'd be mad.
Man, I love this topic, and I love to give my players homework!
Besides, I love the last idea too. It seems really funny, and at my games we already do something like this, and we have to artists, so I can see the players bugging the poor guys who draw to draw their characters full painted and bringing me lots of background. It makes me giggle!
Now, in my games, we do the following: we use 4d6 drop lowest OR Three Dragon Ante a little modified. But we use the...
Rule-of-Three Method:
STEP ONE: Roll 4d6 and drop the lowest, as by the default D&D.
STEP TWO: After you roll your 4d6s and got your attributes, you look at them, to see if they meet this criteria:
-Look at your attributes: If you don't have at least ONE attribute with 15 or more, risk this sh@# and roll again. Lucky you. Return to STEP ONE.
-You sum up the modifiers to see a final big modifier. If the total of this whole thing is less than +3, forget this roll and roll again. Lucky you. Return to STEP ONE.
-If you like it, and it is within the minimum, you can use it to make your char. Go to STEP FOUR. If you don't like it go to STEP THREE.
STEP THREE: But then, you look at your attributes and see that you just have ONE 15, AND you have two 6, AND your total is JUST +3. You then say: TROZ! (This step is really important).
If after all this (make sure to say TROZ!) you don't like your roll, you still have hope.
Each player has "Three Golden Chances!". If you don't like your stats, you use one of your "Gold Chance!", risks your rolled stats (under ANY condition you may NEVER use a discarded roll if you change your mind, so be carefull). Then, return to STEP ONE.
If you use all your chances, and you still got a valid (by STEP TWO) roll, but you don't like it, go to STEP FOUR.
STEP FOUR: Now you have your stats. If you like them, good to you. If you wasted all your chances, but still have valid stats you don't like (like 8, 10, 10, 12, 12, 15), well...sucks to be you...commoner.
-----------------------------------------
The Pcs (except the one of the example -that I had to play! Sucks to be me-) tend to be a little stronger, with big scores, but then, we suppose they are the Heroes...
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My favorite stat generation method of all uses playing cards.
Take two aces, the four deuces (twos), three threes, three fours, four fives, and four sixes (a total of twenty cards). Set aside two of the deuces and shuffle the remaining cards.
Now deal these eighteen cards out into six piles of three; their totals indicate your six scores. Take the two discarded deuces and put each deuce on any score you like, increasing that score by two points. You can even put them both on the same score. The catch is that no score can exceed 18.Now assign each score to an ability, and you're finished. What I like about this method is that while there is some randomness (in how the cards are allotted), every character has roughly equivalent stats. Furthermore, you get to choose where those deuces go, which can give you some control over your final scores. And if you're not satisfied with the power curve, you can change the collection of cards to adjust up or down as you see fit.
That is awesome. Nice first post.
My favorite stat generation method of all uses playing cards.
Take two aces, the four deuces (twos), three threes, three fours, four fives, and four sixes (a total of twenty cards). Set aside two of the deuces and shuffle the remaining cards.
Now deal these eighteen cards out into six piles of three; their totals indicate your six scores. Take the two discarded deuces and put each deuce on any score you like, increasing that score by two points. You can even put them both on the same score. The catch is that no score can exceed 18.Now assign each score to an ability, and you're finished. What I like about this method is that while there is some randomness (in how the cards are allotted), every character has roughly equivalent stats. Furthermore, you get to choose where those deuces go, which can give you some control over your final scores. And if you're not satisfied with the power curve, you can change the collection of cards to adjust up or down as you see fit.
I didn't really look to hard at this method previously but saw it from the previous poster. I like this method also, though I prefer to play a bit leaner game and would probably go with 4 3s, 4 4s, and only 2 sixes.
The nice thing about the card method is that it simultaneously makes it random, but also guarantees that you'll have a decent score spread. The floating twos (adding up to 4 to one stat) means you can be guaranteed that even with a straight average set of scores, you can have a high score in a primary stat.
I'm dying to try this the next time I game.
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So because of curiosity and boredom, I tried that card method and here are my results in four trials (representing 4 party members) before the floating deuces:
(stupid formatting of post making put this extra line here so that the numbers line up nicely.)
1) 11 8 14 13 13 12
2) 16 14 13 10 7 11
3) 9 13 10 12 16 11
4) 12 14 10 11 9 15
so ya. this seems to be a pretty balanced system. I think i might introduce it to my players next time i speak to them. see what they think.
We like:
(3d6, drop the lowest, add 8) six times, then arrange as desired. You can take points from any scores and add to any other scores. I allow one score to be up to 25 (yes, we play a rather high-powered game), as long as it is one that has a racial bonus (any, for humans), and one to be 20 (same rules).
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My group usually prefers a draft system similar to Marnak.
Each player and the DM roll 4d6 drop the lowest (and if we're feeling like it, we re-roll 1s).
Scores are rolled in order. The lowest score in each category is dropped. Players then agree on who gets each score in each category.
It is a little involved, but it builds in cooperation from the very beginning. So the players usually make sure that each character has the highest score in their primary stat and that the total modifiers come out about the same.
At the end I do a quick audit (calculating the total bonus from all abiltiy scores). If there is a major discrepancy I make sure the players are aware and if that is the case, a little trading may occur.
This tends to allow for pretty powerful characters, but it negates the chance that one character is really uber and one is really weak but still allows us to roll dice, which we like.
Here's one I thought of. If anyone has posted this before, I wasn't paying attention. Sorry.
Everyone rolls 2d6 + 6 once. Each player's rolls are put into a pool and everyone gets the same score array from that pool.
If there is less than 6 players, the DM rolls 2d6 +6 until the total number of scores rolled equals 6. More than 6 players and the highest 6 scores wins.
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I've used a Matrix several times to my player's enjoyment (the nice part is it works with any rolling method).
1. Roll 3d6 (or 4d6, or 5d6, or 2d6+6, etc) 6 times. This set of rolls becomes row one of your matrix.
2. Repeat this process five more times, creating 6 rows of 6 scores.
3. You now have a 6x6 grid of numbers.
4. Choose any one row or column from the matrix to be your ability score array. (Another method is to have each player secretly write down their choice and roll to assign all players from one array, rather than have each player roll their own).
Any optional rolling method can be combined with this. If wanted you can have players use the scores in order, or in retrograde, or some variant.
I've used a Matrix several times to my player's enjoyment blablabla...
I just tried that, with 4d6 drop lowest, and had this first row:
13 14 12 17 14 14o_O
I didn't roll any further...
I've always stuck with the 'six rolls of 4d6 (drop lowest, arrange to taste' method although for my upcoming campaign I might experiment with point buy system.
Cheers
Mark
Good Luck with that. I've always found that any point buy system not only yields underpowered characters (i.e., They die REAL fast!), but it takes all the fun out of character creation.
So I'll let the program try to maximize the scores, with a built-in 11% randomization to model the vision impairment from the blood-rush. Does that sound about right?I let them choose, but only after they hang, bat-like, from a basement rafter for 8 minutes and 14 seconds of course.
Dude, I was pulling your leg. My group doesn't own close to 500 d6's each. We usually do the traditional methods of 4d6 drop lowest, although I have used 2d6+6, 5d4, 2d8+2, 1d10+8 and a slew of others. I also like this method, culled from these boards way back when.....
Assign each ability score a number from 1 to 6, each one starts with 6 points in it. Roll 40d6 and for every one you roll add a point the corresponding ability score(usually strength if numbered in order), for every 2 you roll add a point to that ability (usually dex, to follow strength), etc.
That method has some room also, you can reduce the number of d6's rolled and give a few extra points for the players to add as they see fit or whatever.
Thanks a lot Fakey. I let one of my characters roll using your 40d6 method, now we have a half-orc Barbarian with Str 9, Con 8, Dex 7, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 24
But he looks, Maahvelous.
We should have tried the 500 d6 method.
I don't have enough dice to do that . . .
I just use one of the normal methods.
MUST HAVE MORE DICE.....GET MORE DICE.......LOVE LOTS OF DICE!
Besides it is one of the halmarks of being a gamer. LOL
GAME ON!