|
One of my friends suggested that combat should be somewhat secretive, as the characters are not *usually* telepathically connected with one another.
He suggested that onece initiative is determined, each player should write his character's chosen action on an index card and then hand it in to the DM, who then plays each action according to the initiative order. The process would repeat with each subsequent round.
Note that the DM would have to write the actions of the monsters down as well.
Has anyone ever tried something like this? If so, did it work, or make the game unplayable?
Never tried it. I'm sure combat could be a lot more lethal this way, but the DM can then take everyone's composite actions to paint a larger picture of what happens in that round, instead of it happening piecemeal.
This idea also lends a bit of verisimultude to the fact that everyone's acting within the same six seconds. So, if the monster goes first and uses all six seconds to take a move action to move up to someone and then take a standard to attacks that person, the cleric won't use his first three-ish seconds to cure the damage that hasn't really happened yet (but that problem can also be ignored since combat is abstract enough to say they're not exactly all the same six seconds anyway).
As for the simulation of chaos, it definitely puts a "fog of war" spin on combat, but certainly there should be cases where a person lower in initiative would change his action in reaction to new information. The PCs aren't programmed to mindlessly carry out a full six seconds without regard to what's happening around them... though some PCs may actually be this stubborn. :D
I'd almost want to say break it down to 3-second rounds to increase reaction time, granted one action per round... but that has a whole slew of problems itself, (i.e., keeping in mind that a standard and swifts action could only be done within a set of two 3-second rounds, breaking up full-attack actions and adjudicating charges, possibly stipulating that a standard action casting won't go off until the beginning of the next "round", ala 6-second round casting time spells, etc.).
Definitely an interesting idea, though. Might want to try it out for a one-shot adventure. But most important to me is whether or not it makes combat more fun.
|
Writing things down will slow combat down a lot, I'd be hesitant to implement something that would make combat longer.
I've toyed in the past with a "tactical awareness" modifier, typically BAB+WIS, for making checks to determine what's happening in combat (ie to tell if an opponent is power attacking, or fighting defensively, or about to cast a spell, etc); I might be inclined to use that for checks to allow a PC to take an action that specifically depends on what another PC has done this round but they two characters aren't specifically coordinating their actions.
"Declare in order of slowest to fastest, then resolve in order of fastest to slowest" is a method I definately like, but which again slows things down.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
"Declare in order of slowest to fastest, then resolve in order of fastest to slowest" is a method I definately like, but which again slows things down.
There are a couple of game systems that use this (TORG, for example). It makes going first in combat much greater an advantage. (If I know the BBEG is going to step back and heal herself this round, then I'll be more willing to start a long action myself.)
If you plan to implement this, I really would try to re-roll initative every round.
|
|
Aah, the Final Fantasy 1 method of "I'm going to attack the ogre, but wait, the fighter actually killed it already so I have nothing to do this round" combat.
Sorry, no. Leads to too many missed, meaningless turns for PCs with poor initiative rolls. (Says the guy whose paladins tend to have an average initiative roll of about 7 or so...)
Aah, the Final Fantasy 1 method of "I'm going to attack the ogre, but wait, the fighter actually killed it already so I have nothing to do this round" combat.
FWIW, they fixed that in the remade version for the GBA. :P
I went the opposite route. I created a magical ritual in game that allowed the PCs to essentially "share" the information that you're talking about during a fight. It explained what's happening around the tabletop in game terms. (I also paired it up with another one that allowed the PCs to know when one PC figured out a clue about a monster, item or situation rather than encouraging clumsy circumlocutions at the table and "you don't know that yet" arguments.)
|
|
I went the opposite route. I created a magical ritual in game that allowed the PCs to essentially "share" the information that you're talking about during a fight. It explained what's happening around the tabletop in game terms. (I also paired it up with another one that allowed the PCs to know when one PC figured out a clue about a monster, item or situation rather than encouraging clumsy circumlocutions at the table and "you don't know that yet" arguments.)
That is a very interesting concept... But with my group that would spell disaster because each player regularly does something that they don't want the other PCs to know about, and the only thing that saves them is the "You don't know that my character put the sleeping potion in your drink so I could loot your stuff" route.
|
|
This idea also lends a bit of verisimultude to the fact that everyone's acting within the same six seconds. So, if the monster goes first and uses all six seconds to take a move action to move up to someone and then take a standard to attacks that person, the cleric won't use his first three-ish seconds to cure the damage that hasn't really happened yet (but that problem can also be ignored since combat is abstract enough to say they're not exactly all the same six seconds anyway).
As for the simulation of chaos, it definitely puts a "fog of war" spin on combat, but certainly there should be cases where a person lower in initiative would change his action in reaction to new information. The PCs aren't programmed to mindlessly carry out a full six seconds without regard to what's happening around them... though some PCs may actually be this stubborn. :D
I for myself try to speed instead of slow the combat's pace
but the idea has merit...but form the player's way there is an easy solution, watch Gladiator's first Arena Combat when they were expected to get massacred
one character with high charisma (or any the other players would allow to dictate orders) could turn this in a favorable way to the players, while the monster doesn't know what the other monsters are doing the "leader" can give "orders" to his party in order to achieve a more complete goal (like survival) while NOT losing his action (speaking has never taken an action :P) unless you want to force him into rolls of Knowledge tactical or similar criteria.
Paladins, Clerics, Sorceres with tactical minds, Bard more in tun with the diea of elader instead of entertainer, make great leaders
I would give also as class feat: Knowledge: Tactics or Tactics to Paladins, Fighters, Rangers and to Clerics with the War Domain (barbarians are to unruly), Arcana evolved and Iron Heroes saw to this ( i think)
that at least is my criteria
about the "initiative - actions" i would take the reverse option... the faster reaction to what the slowest are doing (is credible, but as some people say its cumbersome because you need to re roll initiative each round to be fair)
also 3.0 i think asked to reroll initiatives each round. or i am wrong?
|
I recently added the following skills to the game that help cover these situations:
Knowledge (Tactics and Strategy) (Int)
You are trained in the art of warfare and the leadership of men.
Class Skill: This skill is a class skill for bards, clerics (War or Knowledge domain), fighters, paladins, and wizards. Supplementary core classes include: samurai, warmages, battle sorcerer, duskblade, and knight.
Check: This skill can be used to learn about or control any military situation – from estimating the size of an opposing force to determining how long your rations will last to identifying a tactic employed by a foe in combat. The DC for the check is determined as for all knowledge checks, except for special cases as given below.
If you are attempting to maneuver your army or assess a quality of an opposing force, you make an opposed check against the leader of the force. If you exceed the result of your opponents check, you learn the desired information or succeed at the maneuver.
If you are attempting to execute a tactic against a single opponent, you must beat a DC of 10 + the creature’s HD. If you succeed, you can execute the tactic, otherwise the precise tactic eludes you. An example of a tactic would be a specific combat strategy that overcomes a target's specific resistances, for example using fire against a troll or bludgeoning weapons against a skeleton. Alternatively, the character may invent a tactic. The DM should determine if the tactic is viable in secret and then have the player make the check. If the check succeeds and the tactic is viable, the DM should award no more than a +2 bonus on a specific action as part of the tactic.
Action: Making a tactics and strategy check is normally a free action, you either remember the information or your don’t. If you are making the check to execute a strategic maneuver, a move action is required to direct your men. If you are making the check to execute a tactical maneuver, a swift action is required. If you are attempting to assess the size or qualities or some other relevant military information of an opposing force, you require 10 minutes of uninterrupted study to make the check.
Try Again: You cannot retry a check to determine the qualities, capabilities, or size of an opponent or force. You either assess the information properly or you do not. You may attempt a strategic or tactical maneuver at any opportunity, regardless of past success or failure.
Special: If you have 5 ranks in Knowledge (tactics and strategy) you gain a +2 bonus to your Leadership score (if you have one).
Martial Arts (Wis)
You are trained in the physical and mental forms of personal combat.
Class Skill: This is a class skill for bards, fighters, monks, and paladins. Supplementary core classes include: samurai, ninja, duskblade, and knight.
Check: This skill can be used in combat in order to gain advantage over an opponent in one of four ways.
You may attempt a Martial Arts check to bolster your defenses against a single opponent. You must succeed on a check against a DC of 10 + the opponent’s HD. If you succeed, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC against that opponent for the duration of the encounter. For every 5 points by which you beat the DC, the dodge bonus increases by +1. If you use this skill again in any way against any opponent, you lose this bonus.
You may attempt a Martial Arts check to improve your chances of striking a single opponent. You must succeed on a check against a DC of 10 + the opponent’s base attack bonus. If you succeed, you gain a +1 competence bonus to your melee attack rolls against that opponent for the duration of the encounter. For every 5 points by which you beat the DC, the competence bonus increases by +1. If you use this skill again in any way against any opponent, you lose this bonus.
You may also use the Martial Arts skill to counter an opponent’s use of the skill. If an opponent has attempted to use Martial Arts against any creature in the encounter, you may counter their use on your turn by making an opposed check against a DC equal to the result of your opponent’s check. Success means your opponent loses their bonus as long as you do not use this skill again during the encounter. If you do not threaten your opponent you do not negate their bonus, but if you again threaten them the bonus is again negated.
Finally, you may use this skill to identify opponents who poses martial training (levels in any classes that grant good fortitude saves). Attempting such a check requires you to succeed against a DC of 15. If you succeed, you learn the training of the character. For every 5 points by which you exceed the DC, you learn one additional thing about the opponent’s training (a single feat or class feature determined by the DM). Opponents can attempt to conceal their training by using the Bluff skill (setting the DC at the result of their check) but must do so consciously in the first round of combat as a free action.
Action: Making a Martial Arts check is a move action, except when used to assess the capabilities of an opponent, in which case it is a free action.
Try Again: You may attempt this skill any number of times against a single opponent or different opponents in a single encounter. Learning the martial history of an opponent may only be attempted once per encounter.
Special: If you have 5 ranks in Martial Arts you gain a +2 bonus on any bull rush, disarm, grapple, sunder, and trip rolls.