If Trog really wants some fancy threads, she's going to love the next adventure! Then again, Cadogan's and Sheraviel's new spidey-senses will get a workout, if we switch back to playing them.
But let's keep bringing both sets, in case their paths cross...
What should I prepare for Kirth? I'm thinking I'll bring out my original monk now that I have a Monk class that won't get him killed. :P
Whatever you've got, I'll fit you in. But you're here the 11th, not the 4th, correct? That'll put you mid-adventure, which I always have fun accommodating; it's an exercise in creativity to make it not seem too strained.
That is the plan. I figured I should know the character gen for now. And he'll be real easy to work in, vagabond street urchin that he is.
Give me until Tuesday to figure out which group will be "in the spotlight" on the 11th, and I can figure out what level you need to be, and fill you in on your situation.
We've got 2 groups of PCs alternating currently.
Group 1:
Group 2:
Good to know. I'll ask the wife if she wants to play or just watch and let you know.
She thought we'd just be watching, but she's fine with either. Whichever is better for you.
The more the merrier! Hate to have you come and then just sit around. And I'm pretty sure that Jess Door wouldn't mind having another female in the game.
The good news is, I tend to throw high-CR encvounters at low levels to weed out a lot of characters, so adding two more people to the party really won't ruin anything at all -- in fact, they might be grateful for the backup.
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I'll have to go back and get a more indepth read of the houserules doc, to make sure I'm not too stuck in 3.5. Also, I'm planning on simulating his use of a chain for defense by vambrace proficiency, fyi. I'll have to doublecheck that it won't mess with his class features.
Also, I have a Google Group for my SCAP game if you or anyone else want access to that for general discussion. I have my own house rules posted there, with discussions. I posted the material I got from you that is available in my game, with some minor tweaks. Apologies for not mentioning it sooner.
Kirth, did you find anything interesting in Dwarves or Book of Experimental Might? I'll bring Seekers of Secrets tonight.
Kirth, did you find anything interesting in Dwarves or Book of Experimental Might? I'll bring Seekers of Secrets tonight.
I added a number of the feats from X Might. Dwarves I'm going through; I'll probably allow the spells, but with modifications. (For example, they've got a 4th level version of bull's strength that gives a +8 enhancement bonus. To my thinking, +6 is more reasonable for a 4th level spell; I might have a 6th level version that gives +8.)
Hey, Kirth, you're the GM. I'm just one of the sources of information and possibilities.
Hey, Kirth, you're the GM.
I'm the host, facilitator, and creative consultant. All rules -- core, splatbook, and houserules alike -- are subject to group approval. The new monk, for example, has been through several revisions now based on feedback. My vote has tiebreaker authority, but otherwise counts the same as anyone else's.
P.S. Sources for more ideas are always very welcome. Thanks again for the loan!
To my way of thinking my books are my kids. I won't loan them out or let them visit anyone else's home unless I feel they will be taken care of. That has not bothered me at all to let you look them over.
To my way of thinking my books are my kids. I won't loan them out or let them visit anyone else's home unless I feel they will be taken care of. That has not bothered me at all to let you look them over.
Thanks! It took me years to train my wife not to bend the spines on my paperbacks all the way back, destroying the binding. I tried to explain to her that a lot of them that are out of print and cannot be replaced, but the idea of re-reading a book is totally alien to her.
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Heck the only thing that would really make me consider casting it is the 1 hour/level duration that type of spell has in your homebrew :)
Hope that analasys helped.
Yeah, I think the longer duration provides most of the reason you would cast a greater bull's strength. wi9thout the longer duration, I would only ever cast this spell if we had some crazy strength check we had to pass or die, or something of that nature.
You know, I'm pretty damned handsome.
Just sayin'.
By that logic, +6 would be a third and +8 a fourth.
Empower = +2 levels, +150%. I know it applies only to variables, but it's a point of reference. Also, mage armor (+4) is 1st, greater mage armor (+6) is 3rd (2 levels higher). Also, I dislike for spells to easily supercede all items, level-based adjustments, etc. Finally, if you allow a +18 Str for a 9th level slot (per your logic), then attribute scores become binary (yes or no) vs. a reasonable scale.
I'm torn about hour/level for attribute boosts; when we used to allow it, no one took any other 2nd level spells, ever, and a ring of wizardry II was worth twice as much as a ring of wizardry IV. As a result, of all spells that could possibly be "nerfed," I'm most in favor when it comes to the attribute boost ones.
Rules interpretation question: feedback solicited!
Anyone reading the "trip" thread will understand where I'm coming from. In 3.5, I always ruled that you could make armed trips only with a "trip" weapon -- but if you didn't have one, you could make unarmed trip attacks even with no hand free (you use your foot instead). Most polearms have the "trip" property, so the only thing this really cut out was trips with longspears and greatclubs.
My initial personal preference is to keep that ruling, because it adds a lot of value to the "trip" property. For Trog, the guisarme is a simple weapon, so she would still have a tripping, flurrying reach weapon with which she was proficient (trade out the longspear and she's good to go).
If people prefer, however, I can easily be outvoted. There's obviously a wide spectrum of possible rulings, from least to most restrictive:
(1) Unrestricted trips with everything. The "trip" property is basically meaningless if you have the Improved Wrestling Maneuvers feat.
(2) As (1), but you don't get the weapon bonuses to your CMB when tripping with non-"trip" property weapons.
(3) As DM preference, above.
(4) Tripping is impossible without "trip" weapons.
TOZ -- shoot me an email when you get a chance, if you would; we can talk about introducing your character on Monday (I left it set up nicely at the end of last Monday's game) and I can give you directions to the game.
As a player, thinking about the Trip properties I feel inclined to go with #2. I think a weapon with the trip property should allow a bonus to any trip attack, but you should be able to attempt a trip attack with your foot without the bonus.
I hope that makes some sort of sense. I don't always express myself correctly.
Could it be possible to allow a bonus of say a +2 to trip attacks from a monk while using her feet but not by any other PC? The weapon bonus to trip attacks could be anywhere from a +2 to a +5.
Just my 2 cp.
I wish to weigh in, but I need time to craft a reply - and need to research first. Just letting you know.
Great! I'm not a hopeless slave to realism, but if there is a lot of evidence of greatclubs and spears being used to great effect as trip weapons in Medieval warfare, for example, my position is easily subject to change.
Howdy howdy howdy! I'm back in town and have no further plans that should interfere with talk-in-a-funny-voice night, so I'll see you all Monday.
Male dwarf wizard 3, temporarily brain-damaged (Agun, played by Andostre).
The race of elves that has yet to invent the wheel are apparently expert brain-surgeons and fixed that little mishap, remember?
And I thought someone said we were level 4. Is level 3 correct?
1. The race of elves that has yet to invent the wheel are apparently expert brain-surgeons and fixed that little mishap, remember?
2. And I thought someone said we were level 4. Is level 3 correct?
1. I thought so as well, but Derek and Jess were having so much fun making dumb jokes at your expense it was hard to remember. You'd have been cured last Monday in any event, so all is well.
2. Jazeed is now 2nd level, not 1st. As far as I know Agun is still 3rd. Silverhair -- Rim is 3rd, correct? Do I need to start collecting character sheets after every game (not a bad idea, come to think of it, when Derek reads things like "staff of the magi" off his equipment list at 2nd level)?
Don't trust anything this guy gives you! All I did was retrieve a box, and look where it got me!
Don't trust anything this guy gives you! All I did was retrieve a box, and look where it got me!
Um, who cast "Speak With Dead"? Like we needed input from this yoyo any more...
I like yoyos! Where's my yoyo!
Huh?
Where is it?!?
You know how hard it is to get a decent portrait around here? Spent my last silver on it and it ain't even that good.
Not everyone can be this good looking...
I am of the third circle of Divine inspiration.
I am of the third circle of Divine inspiration.
Unless that inspiration is actually coming from your 2nd bicuspid...
Hope you see improvement soon, Derek. We'll miss you.
Andostre, Could I get a ride to tonight's game? I had sent you an email but never got a response. Try to let me know early enough so I could catch the bus if I need to.
Andostre, Could I get a ride to tonight's game? I had sent you an email but never got a response. Try to let me know early enough so I could catch the bus if I need to.
Not a problem. See my reply to your e-mail.
If someone can email me the street address, that'll help me get there.
I did this morning... did it not come through? I emailed directions at some point as well...
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Rules interpretation question: feedback solicited!
Anyone reading the "trip" thread will understand where I'm coming from. In 3.5, I always ruled that you could make armed trips only with a "trip" weapon -- but if you didn't have one, you could make unarmed trip attacks even with no hand free (you use your foot instead). Most polearms have the "trip" property, so the only thing this really cut out was trips with longspears and greatclubs.
My initial personal preference is to keep that ruling, because it adds a lot of value to the "trip" property. For Trog, the guisarme is a simple weapon, so she would still have a tripping, flurrying reach weapon with which she was proficient (trade out the longspear and she's good to go).
If people prefer, however, I can easily be outvoted. There's obviously a wide spectrum of possible rulings, from least to most restrictive:
(1) Unrestricted trips with everything. The "trip" property is basically meaningless if you have the Improved Wrestling Maneuvers feat.
(2) As (1), but you don't get the weapon bonuses to your CMB when tripping with non-"trip" property weapons.
(3) As DM preference, above.
(4) Tripping is impossible without "trip" weapons.
Pathfinder SRD:
Trip (from Combat section)You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee
attack. You can only trip an opponent who is no more than
one size category larger than you. If you do not have the
Improved Trip feat, or a similar ability, initiating a trip
provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your
maneuver.
If your attack exceeds the target's CMD, the target is
knocked prone. If your attack fails by 10 or more, you are
knocked prone instead. If the target has more than two legs,
add +2 to the DC of the combat maneuver attack roll for each
additional leg it has. Some creatures-such as oozes,
creatures without legs, and flying creatures-cannot be
tripped.
Trip (weapon property from Equipment section)
You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you
are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the
weapon to avoid being tripped.
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I've always assumed that you may attempt a trip attempt if you could attack them. I'm not sure why you couldn't use a longspear to attempt to trip up a distant opponent before they attack. I"m not sure what the language on the weapon property trip is referring to, however, as I've gone through the entire SRD and there's no reference to provoking return trip attempts in it.
I've always played with unrestricted trip attempt.
Sorry for the lateness, I knew how I'd always played things, and I knew what my impression of the rules was, but I wasn't sure if there had been any changes, and didn't have a lot of time last week to look things up.
I'm not sure what the language on the weapon property trip is referring to, however, as I've gone through the entire SRD and there's no reference to provoking return trip attempts in it.
Yeah, the RAW make it seem like if you don't have Improved Trip and make a trip attack, the opponent can counter-trip unless you use a special "trip" weapon (in which case you can drop it to avoid the counter-trip). If you do have the feat, there's no counter-trip allowed. The implication, then, is that the feat totally supercedes the weapon property, which sort of bugs me.
How about this, then:
Any weapon can be used to trip. However, you use your base CMB only, unless the weapon has the "trip" property -- if it does, you can add the weapon's enhancement bonus, bonuses from Improved Wrestling Maneuvers, weapon training/weapon focus bonuses, etc.
That way the Trip property still retains value, especially for people with the feat.
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I'm not sure what the language on the weapon property trip is referring to, however, as I've gone through the entire SRD and there's no reference to provoking return trip attempts in it.Yeah, the RAW make it seem like if you don't have Improved Trip and make a trip attack, the opponent can counter-trip unless you use a special "trip" weapon (in which case you can drop it to avoid the counter-trip). If you do have the feat, there's no counter-trip allowed. The implication, then, is that the feat totally supercedes the weapon property, which sort of bugs me.
How about this, then:
Any weapon can be used to trip. However, you use your base CMB only, unless the weapon has the "trip" property -- if it does, you can add the weapon's enhancement bonus, bonuses from Improved Wrestling Maneuvers, weapon training/weapon focus bonuses, etc.
That way the Trip property still retains value, especially for people with the feat.
That's mostly fine with me. I'm not sure I like losing all use of the feat except avoiding AOOs without the trip weapon...but whatever. The language is really confusing there. I wonder what they meant. @_@
I'm not sure I like losing all use of the feat except avoiding AOOs without the trip weapon...
Unarmed trips would still use your feat bonuses, so if you're armed with a longsword, for example, you could make a trip attack with your foot (even with no free hand) in lieu of a sword attack. In other words, your options would be:
For Trog, opponents within reach are easily tripped with her unarmed ability; opponents at reach can be tripped with slightly more difficulty if you stick with a longspear, or with full feat bonuses if she swaps the spear for a guisarme (aka pruning hook: simple weapon, same stats, but x2 crit instead of x3, and it's a "trip" weapon).
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I'm not sure I like losing all use of the feat except avoiding AOOs without the trip weapon...Unarmed trips would still use your feat bonuses, so if you're armed with a longsword, for example, you could make a trip attack with your foot (even with no free hand) in lieu of a sword attack. In other words, your options would be:
Trip unarmed (like, with your foot) without reach and apply all Improved Wrestling Maneuver bonuses; or
Trip with a designated "trip" weapon (reach or otherwise) and apply all weapon and feat bonuses; or
Trip with a non-trip reach weapon without bonuses. For Trog, opponents within reach are easily tripped with her unarmed ability; opponents at reach can be tripped with slightly more difficulty if you stick with a longspear, or with full feat bonuses if she swaps the spear for a guisarme (aka pruning hook: simple weapon, same stats, but x2 crit instead of x3, and it's a "trip" weapon).
Can non-monks trip unarmed? Do these sort of rules work for disarm and / or sunder, as they also use weapons? Or no, because there are no "disarm" or "sunder" weapon abilities?
Can non-monks trip unarmed?
Yes!
Disarm and sunder are pretty much always using a weapon (although I wouldn't hesitate to let someone with Improved Unarmed Strike sunder spears and the like), so you're essentially always getting the weapon bonuses and/or Weapon Maneuvers feat bonuses. The limitations on weapon trips are specifically because of the "trip" property, which in turn is a nod to the fact that RL weapons sometimes had/have hooks/protrusions specifically to allow them to be used to more easily trip people.
The "disarm" weapon property works differently from "trip" because it simply provides a flat +2 bonus, on top of whatever weapon/feat bonuses you're getting.